Smaller Mac Pro, 2021 iMac redesign with color options shown off by prolific leaker

12467

Comments

  • Reply 61 of 122
    neilmneilm Posts: 989member
    These renderings fail to take into account that if the chin is gone you do not want to lower the screen. In fact that’s the exact opposite of what’s needed.

    Personally I think these prolific leakers should see a urologist — there are treatments for that!
    thtdysamoria
  • Reply 62 of 122
    I’m all for the colors...

    but keep space gray and silver in the lineup. 

    Would love to see a porcelain white join the lineup as well. 
  • Reply 63 of 122
    Forget rounded corners - I think a circular iMac screen would be innovative. 
    elijahg
  • Reply 64 of 122
    blastdoorblastdoor Posts: 3,367member
    Forget rounded corners - I think a circular iMac screen would be innovative. 
    No -- a pyramid. The strongest shape ever constructed. 


    elijahgFileMakerFellerroundaboutnow
  • Reply 65 of 122
    sflocal said:

    ...Gone will be the days where one could at least upgrade the RAM.
    Correction: Gone ARE the days where one could do anything to your Mac.
    dysamoriaelijahg
  • Reply 66 of 122
    thttht Posts: 5,530member
    elijahg said:
    I suspect part of the reason they don’t want to have an expandable xMac, is people adding their own GPUs requires driver support. Since Apple writes the AMD drivers they know what GPUs they have to write the drivers for traditionally, and would have to expand that to support more AMD cards. 

    I feel the same way with integrated graphics too. There’s no way Apple’s integrated GPUs will ever come close to discrete ones.
    I think Apple will have a discrete GPU for Apple Silicon Macs. Probably a frequency-voltage limited version for the large iMac and maybe this Mac Half Pro. Then, the full up 150 to 200 W version for the Mac Half Pro and Mac Pro. If it is coming out in 2021 or 1H 2022, maybe a discrete 64 core GPU. M1 GPU cores, that is. That will be about 20 TFLOPS at 100 W.

    The laptops on the other hand, yes, they won't have discrete GPUs anymore. A 16 core GPU (2x that of the M1) will be at about a Radeon Pro 5600M level, or 5 TFLOPS. That's really good, and it will be at about half the Watts, and really good news imo. Whether there will be an on-chip 32 core GPU in Apple's high end laptop and iMacs (and Mac mini, Mac Half Pro and Mac Pro) will be a very interesting question.



    Detnator
  • Reply 67 of 122
    dysamoriadysamoria Posts: 3,430member
    sflocal said:
    avon b7 said:
    No chin, at last!

    But I've had it with all-in-ones. I'll never buy a desktop Mac with the screen glued onto it again. 
    Your complaint is moot.  I think the new iMacs will be essentially a giant iPad with everything soldered in.  Gone will be the days where one could at least upgrade the RAM.

    What's your beef with removing the display?  Open that display once (or twice) ever in its life it too much?  I can remove and reinstall my iMac display in minutes.  It's a non-issue.
    You don’t end up with dust all over the LCD panel? I don’t know how much they changed it since the 2011 model, but that one is an effing PITA to manipulate everything AND you WILL end up with dust and whatnot stuck to the LCD before you get the glass back over it.
  • Reply 68 of 122
    dysamoriadysamoria Posts: 3,430member
    dewme said:
    Looks promising. If they're going to delete the bezel why not incorporate the option operating the device in portrait orientation? I would also not be opposed to having at least one USB-C port and a 3.5 mm audio jack - on the front. I know, it's crazy talk, but not everyone likes blindly fumbling around the back of the Mac-slab trying to find the right open hole and orientation to stick a plug into. The current humpbacked iMac with all the ports lower than the curve of the back hump when viewed from the top is truly a form of masochistic torture by Apple's designers. Apple, what did we do to deserve this? #nomorehump
    It’s like none of the Apple fanatics need to use third party hardware...
    elijahgmuthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 69 of 122
    dysamoriadysamoria Posts: 3,430member
    sflocal said:
    avon b7 said:
    No chin, at last!

    But I've had it with all-in-ones. I'll never buy a desktop Mac with the screen glued onto it again. 
    Your complaint is moot.  I think the new iMacs will be essentially a giant iPad with everything soldered in.  Gone will be the days where one could at least upgrade the RAM.

    What's your beef with removing the display?  Open that display once (or twice) ever in its life it too much?  I can remove and reinstall my iMac display in minutes.  It's a non-issue.
    You expect average people to remove the iMac's display? That's pretty unreasonable.

    And from my perspective you're missing the point. If something goes wrong with the CPU or other core component, when the screen is still fine, then there's no reason to remove the screen. The whole point to having a separate screen is so that you don't have to throw out the monitor when the CPU dies. Both of my last two iMacs have given me blue screens of death every week after the first three years (with nothing but Apple's OS on the system.) Yes, I've reinstalled the OS and taken them in to Apple for testing, and they could find nothing. It's just random crashing, and it feels like the Intel CPU. I will never buy an Intel CPU again, even though I can't prove that that's the cause of the problem.

    I've had to throw out my iMac screens with my CPUs because they are built in and can't be separated every time the CPU dies. What a waste. 
    Buy a Mac Mini.
    What retina-resolution 3rd-party screen to go with it that won’t have any compatibility issues? Apple should never have stopped making their own standalone displays. That’s why I never bought the 2013 Mac Pro.
  • Reply 70 of 122
    dysamoriadysamoria Posts: 3,430member

    elijahg said:
    wizard69 said:
    elijahg said:
    Smaller (cheaper) Mac Pro might be the fabled xMac??! We can but dream...

    Could be!   However I never saw the XMac as a Mac Pro replacement.   

    In any event if the rumor is correct and that new Cube is in fact a Mac Pro replacement then Apple has fallen into the same old trap of not realizing that pros need certain features and capabilities.    There is a huge difference between a Pro desktop computer and a Pro workstation type machine.   Apple hasn't gotten either one right in decades so I'd be shocked to see them suddenly start marketing machines people will buy.

    The current Mac Pro sorta wants to fill the role of a workstation type computer.   It fails miserably though for many reasons.

    As for the fabled XMac the key there is a it being a desktop machine with a decent Video card and SSD expansion capability.    That isn't asking a lot and for the life of me I've never understood why Apple hasn't been able to produces such a machine.   There is almost zero overlap with respect to potential customers of the XMac and the Mac Pro (or what the Mac Pro should be).

    Finally I have this big fear that Apple is going to move away from supporting discreet GPU's believing that their integrated stuff will be good enough.   That will be a sad day because a discreet GPU will always have a performance advantage in some situations simply due to die area.
    True, perhaps more of a Mac Mini Pro. Or a Mac Pro Mini. 

    Let’s hope they’ll listen to their customers as they sort of did with the new Mac Pro, rather than being “courageous” and introducing another dead end Mac like the 2013 Mac Pro or Cube. That’s the thing - people here say an xMac hasn’t enough of a market, but I would wager that it’d have a much bigger market than a $5000 machine with $600 wheels…

    I agree though, the current MP is more of a tech demo than a real workstation or a desktop. I had a 2006 Mac Pro, which was great. Much more sensible price and had decent expansion and upgrade capability.

    I suspect part of the reason they don’t want to have an expandable xMac, is people adding their own GPUs requires driver support. Since Apple writes the AMD drivers they know what GPUs they have to write the drivers for traditionally, and would have to expand that to support more AMD cards. 

    I feel the same way with integrated graphics too. There’s no way Apple’s integrated GPUs will ever come close to discrete ones. Apple has had an unbelievably childish spat with Nvidia over a leak years ago, so refuses to use their GPUs - nor will they sign the Nvidia drivers for Mojave+. Surely an antitrust issue right there. Not only were the Nvidia drivers updated for 7 or 8 years after the card’s release, they were always *much* better than the drivers Apple writes for the AMD cards. Before the Nvidia spat, Apple refused to use AMD (then ATI) cards due to a leak, but had to go back to them tail between their legs post-Nvidia leak. It’s absurd that a 2tn company behaves like a spoilt child. 
    I thought it was the self-destructing hardware that they blamed on NVidia...
  • Reply 71 of 122
    dysamoriadysamoria Posts: 3,430member
    mjtomlin said:

    sflocal said:
    avon b7 said:
    No chin, at last!

    But I've had it with all-in-ones. I'll never buy a desktop Mac with the screen glued onto it again. 
    Your complaint is moot.  I think the new iMacs will be essentially a giant iPad with everything soldered in.  Gone will be the days where one could at least upgrade the RAM.

    What's your beef with removing the display?  Open that display once (or twice) ever in its life it too much?  I can remove and reinstall my iMac display in minutes.  It's a non-issue.
    You expect average people to remove the iMac's display? That's pretty unreasonable.

    And from my perspective you're missing the point. If something goes wrong with the CPU or other core component, when the screen is still fine, then there's no reason to remove the screen. The whole point to having a separate screen is so that you don't have to throw out the monitor when the CPU dies. Both of my last two iMacs have given me blue screens of death every week after the first three years (with nothing but Apple's OS on the system.) Yes, I've reinstalled the OS and taken them in to Apple for testing, and they could find nothing. It's just random crashing, and it feels like the Intel CPU. I will never buy an Intel CPU again, even though I can't prove that that's the cause of the problem.

    I've had to throw out my iMac screens with my CPUs because they are built in and can't be separated every time the CPU dies. What a waste. 

    It extremely unreasonable to believe that average people actually do anything to upgrade their systems. Most don't and those that do, have someone else do it.

    And, I think you're missing the point... If you don't like AIO then don't buy one. A lot of people do like them and it's nice HAVING A CHOICE.

    Also, aren't all laptops AIO systems? Are you going to argue that they are a waste as well?
    You said it’s nice having a choice? Well where is the choice for those of us who don’t want the all-in-one? Plenty of us want a nice large display, made by Apple, and a power-user machine that’s made with a thermally tolerant design and the ability to replace storage devices and RAM. Where’s our choice?
    elijahg
  • Reply 72 of 122
    blastdoorblastdoor Posts: 3,367member
    tht said:
    elijahg said:
    I suspect part of the reason they don’t want to have an expandable xMac, is people adding their own GPUs requires driver support. Since Apple writes the AMD drivers they know what GPUs they have to write the drivers for traditionally, and would have to expand that to support more AMD cards. 

    I feel the same way with integrated graphics too. There’s no way Apple’s integrated GPUs will ever come close to discrete ones.
    I think Apple will have a discrete GPU for Apple Silicon Macs. Probably a frequency-voltage limited version for the large iMac and maybe this Mac Half Pro. Then, the full up 150 to 200 W version for the Mac Half Pro and Mac Pro. If it is coming out in 2021 or 1H 2022, maybe a discrete 64 core GPU. M1 GPU cores, that is. That will be about 20 TFLOPS at 100 W.

    The laptops on the other hand, yes, they won't have discrete GPUs anymore. A 16 core GPU (2x that of the M1) will be at about a Radeon Pro 5600M level, or 5 TFLOPS. That's really good, and it will be at about half the Watts, and really good news imo. Whether there will be an on-chip 32 core GPU in Apple's high end laptop and iMacs (and Mac mini, Mac Half Pro and Mac Pro) will be a very interesting question.



    When you say “discrete GPU” what do you mean? Do you mean a PCIe card? Or do you just mean a GPU chip that is not integrated with the CPU in the same die? 

    What if the GPU is a separate chip but it’s in the same package and shares the same RAM? In other words, a “chiplet” solution? 

    I think it’s very unlikely that they’ll do the PCIe thing. Much more likely to do the chiplet or similar things.
  • Reply 73 of 122
    neilmneilm Posts: 989member
    dysamoria said:
    mjtomlin said:

    sflocal said:
    avon b7 said:
    No chin, at last!

    But I've had it with all-in-ones. I'll never buy a desktop Mac with the screen glued onto it again. 
    Your complaint is moot.  I think the new iMacs will be essentially a giant iPad with everything soldered in.  Gone will be the days where one could at least upgrade the RAM.

    What's your beef with removing the display?  Open that display once (or twice) ever in its life it too much?  I can remove and reinstall my iMac display in minutes.  It's a non-issue.
    You expect average people to remove the iMac's display? That's pretty unreasonable.

    And from my perspective you're missing the point. If something goes wrong with the CPU or other core component, when the screen is still fine, then there's no reason to remove the screen. The whole point to having a separate screen is so that you don't have to throw out the monitor when the CPU dies. Both of my last two iMacs have given me blue screens of death every week after the first three years (with nothing but Apple's OS on the system.) Yes, I've reinstalled the OS and taken them in to Apple for testing, and they could find nothing. It's just random crashing, and it feels like the Intel CPU. I will never buy an Intel CPU again, even though I can't prove that that's the cause of the problem.

    I've had to throw out my iMac screens with my CPUs because they are built in and can't be separated every time the CPU dies. What a waste. 

    It extremely unreasonable to believe that average people actually do anything to upgrade their systems. Most don't and those that do, have someone else do it.

    And, I think you're missing the point... If you don't like AIO then don't buy one. A lot of people do like them and it's nice HAVING A CHOICE.

    Also, aren't all laptops AIO systems? Are you going to argue that they are a waste as well?
    You said it’s nice having a choice? Well where is the choice for those of us who don’t want the all-in-one? Plenty of us want a nice large display, made by Apple, and a power-user machine that’s made with a thermally tolerant design and the ability to replace storage devices and RAM. Where’s our choice?
    Apple offers precisely what you’re asking for with the Mac Pro and its companion 32” monitor. 
    You just don’t like the price...
    fastasleep
  • Reply 74 of 122
    thttht Posts: 5,530member
    blastdoor said:
    tht said:
    elijahg said:
    I suspect part of the reason they don’t want to have an expandable xMac, is people adding their own GPUs requires driver support. Since Apple writes the AMD drivers they know what GPUs they have to write the drivers for traditionally, and would have to expand that to support more AMD cards. 

    I feel the same way with integrated graphics too. There’s no way Apple’s integrated GPUs will ever come close to discrete ones.
    I think Apple will have a discrete GPU for Apple Silicon Macs. Probably a frequency-voltage limited version for the large iMac and maybe this Mac Half Pro. Then, the full up 150 to 200 W version for the Mac Half Pro and Mac Pro. If it is coming out in 2021 or 1H 2022, maybe a discrete 64 core GPU. M1 GPU cores, that is. That will be about 20 TFLOPS at 100 W.

    The laptops on the other hand, yes, they won't have discrete GPUs anymore. A 16 core GPU (2x that of the M1) will be at about a Radeon Pro 5600M level, or 5 TFLOPS. That's really good, and it will be at about half the Watts, and really good news imo. Whether there will be an on-chip 32 core GPU in Apple's high end laptop and iMacs (and Mac mini, Mac Half Pro and Mac Pro) will be a very interesting question.
    When you say “discrete GPU” what do you mean? Do you mean a PCIe card? Or do you just mean a GPU chip that is not integrated with the CPU in the same die? 

    What if the GPU is a separate chip but it’s in the same package and shares the same RAM? In other words, a “chiplet” solution? 

    I think it’s very unlikely that they’ll do the PCIe thing. Much more likely to do the chiplet or similar things.
    I think they will have a MPX/PCIe module containing an Apple custom GPU for the Mac Pro. It will only be 2-wide, and Mac Pro customers will be able to put up to 5 of them in the Mac Pro. For the Mac Half Pro, whether it is on a PCIe card or some custom setup, there will be a discrete GPU in this smaller headless Mac. This same GPU will be an option to be on the logic board of the new large iMacs.

    Apple will not use a chiplet packaging. It will have SoCs with GPUs in them, that will go in the laptops, iMacs, Mac minis and probably the Mac Half Pro and maybe even the Mac Pro if it goes Apple Silicon. They will have SoC options that will have iGPUs that are more performant than the 5600M.

    fastasleep
  • Reply 75 of 122
    tht said:
    blastdoor said:
    tht said:
    elijahg said:
    I suspect part of the reason they don’t want to have an expandable xMac, is people adding their own GPUs requires driver support. Since Apple writes the AMD drivers they know what GPUs they have to write the drivers for traditionally, and would have to expand that to support more AMD cards. 

    I feel the same way with integrated graphics too. There’s no way Apple’s integrated GPUs will ever come close to discrete ones.
    I think Apple will have a discrete GPU for Apple Silicon Macs. Probably a frequency-voltage limited version for the large iMac and maybe this Mac Half Pro. Then, the full up 150 to 200 W version for the Mac Half Pro and Mac Pro. If it is coming out in 2021 or 1H 2022, maybe a discrete 64 core GPU. M1 GPU cores, that is. That will be about 20 TFLOPS at 100 W.

    The laptops on the other hand, yes, they won't have discrete GPUs anymore. A 16 core GPU (2x that of the M1) will be at about a Radeon Pro 5600M level, or 5 TFLOPS. That's really good, and it will be at about half the Watts, and really good news imo. Whether there will be an on-chip 32 core GPU in Apple's high end laptop and iMacs (and Mac mini, Mac Half Pro and Mac Pro) will be a very interesting question.
    When you say “discrete GPU” what do you mean? Do you mean a PCIe card? Or do you just mean a GPU chip that is not integrated with the CPU in the same die? 

    What if the GPU is a separate chip but it’s in the same package and shares the same RAM? In other words, a “chiplet” solution? 

    I think it’s very unlikely that they’ll do the PCIe thing. Much more likely to do the chiplet or similar things.
    I think they will have a MPX/PCIe module containing an Apple custom GPU for the Mac Pro. It will only be 2-wide, and Mac Pro customers will be able to put up to 5 of them in the Mac Pro. For the Mac Half Pro, whether it is on a PCIe card or some custom setup, there will be a discrete GPU in this smaller headless Mac. This same GPU will be an option to be on the logic board of the new large iMacs.

    Apple will not use a chiplet packaging. It will have SoCs with GPUs in them, that will go in the laptops, iMacs, Mac minis and probably the Mac Half Pro and maybe even the Mac Pro if it goes Apple Silicon. They will have SoC options that will have iGPUs that are more performant than the 5600M.

    I admire your specificity!

    I guess one data point in support is the current afterburner card. That’s super niche but apple did it anyway. If they were willing to do that maybe they’ll make your GPU. I’m still skeptical though. 
  • Reply 76 of 122
    elijahgelijahg Posts: 2,781member
    crowley said:
    elijahg said:
    michelb76 said:
    elijahg said:
    Smaller (cheaper) Mac Pro might be the fabled xMac??! We can but dream...
    Who said cheaper? One can only hope this is going to be better priced than a hackintosh.
    I might be wrong, but I would hope even Apple doesn’t have the gall to charge the same price for the full size Mac Pro as the Mac Mini Pro. 
    Wasn't that basically the reason the G4 Cube failed, that it was basically the same price as the PowerMac G4, with no benefits other that a pretty design?
    Pretty much, it was slower for the same price to begin with IIRC and had a couple of oddities that didn't help. The GPU was short (for the time) IIRC and hard to come by for upgrades. Kind of proves that for the same money, people will choose more computer over nicer design - and thus the form factor of Macs is actually not as important as people here often make it out to be.
    muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 77 of 122
    elijahgelijahg Posts: 2,781member

    mjtomlin said:

    sflocal said:
    avon b7 said:
    No chin, at last!

    But I've had it with all-in-ones. I'll never buy a desktop Mac with the screen glued onto it again. 
    Your complaint is moot.  I think the new iMacs will be essentially a giant iPad with everything soldered in.  Gone will be the days where one could at least upgrade the RAM.

    What's your beef with removing the display?  Open that display once (or twice) ever in its life it too much?  I can remove and reinstall my iMac display in minutes.  It's a non-issue.
    You expect average people to remove the iMac's display? That's pretty unreasonable.

    And from my perspective you're missing the point. If something goes wrong with the CPU or other core component, when the screen is still fine, then there's no reason to remove the screen. The whole point to having a separate screen is so that you don't have to throw out the monitor when the CPU dies. Both of my last two iMacs have given me blue screens of death every week after the first three years (with nothing but Apple's OS on the system.) Yes, I've reinstalled the OS and taken them in to Apple for testing, and they could find nothing. It's just random crashing, and it feels like the Intel CPU. I will never buy an Intel CPU again, even though I can't prove that that's the cause of the problem.

    I've had to throw out my iMac screens with my CPUs because they are built in and can't be separated every time the CPU dies. What a waste. 

    It extremely unreasonable to believe that average people actually do anything to upgrade their systems. Most don't and those that do, have someone else do it.

    And, I think you're missing the point... If you don't like AIO then don't buy one. A lot of people do like them and it's nice HAVING A CHOICE.

    Also, aren't all laptops AIO systems? Are you going to argue that they are a waste as well?
    If you want a Mac that isn't an AIO there's the Mini, or the Mac Pro. With a gulf of capability, expansion and price between them. So telling someone to just "don't get an AIO" is you missing the point somewhat.
    muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 78 of 122
    elijahgelijahg Posts: 2,781member


    mjtomlin said:

    My 2009 27" i7 still runs fine after 11 years of use... and 99.999999% of that of that time it has been powered on. 
    Only 30 seconds of downtime over 11 years, that's amazing. I managed a system with 99.9% uptime, and that was difficult. We even maintained the system when the province-wide electrical power went off for a week. Which was kind of funny because nobody in the province could use our system when the province had no electricity for the population. But we were up.
    Damn that must mean no reboots and no security updates, and it must be on Snow Leopard still. Not sure how much use a computer with Snow Leopard is these days, maybe for watching Plex? Maybe that's all it's ever done, wouldn't really need updates then. 
  • Reply 79 of 122
    mjtomlinmjtomlin Posts: 2,678member
    dysamoria said:
    mjtomlin said:

    sflocal said:
    avon b7 said:
    No chin, at last!

    But I've had it with all-in-ones. I'll never buy a desktop Mac with the screen glued onto it again. 
    Your complaint is moot.  I think the new iMacs will be essentially a giant iPad with everything soldered in.  Gone will be the days where one could at least upgrade the RAM.

    What's your beef with removing the display?  Open that display once (or twice) ever in its life it too much?  I can remove and reinstall my iMac display in minutes.  It's a non-issue.
    You expect average people to remove the iMac's display? That's pretty unreasonable.

    And from my perspective you're missing the point. If something goes wrong with the CPU or other core component, when the screen is still fine, then there's no reason to remove the screen. The whole point to having a separate screen is so that you don't have to throw out the monitor when the CPU dies. Both of my last two iMacs have given me blue screens of death every week after the first three years (with nothing but Apple's OS on the system.) Yes, I've reinstalled the OS and taken them in to Apple for testing, and they could find nothing. It's just random crashing, and it feels like the Intel CPU. I will never buy an Intel CPU again, even though I can't prove that that's the cause of the problem.

    I've had to throw out my iMac screens with my CPUs because they are built in and can't be separated every time the CPU dies. What a waste. 

    It extremely unreasonable to believe that average people actually do anything to upgrade their systems. Most don't and those that do, have someone else do it.

    And, I think you're missing the point... If you don't like AIO then don't buy one. A lot of people do like them and it's nice HAVING A CHOICE.

    Also, aren't all laptops AIO systems? Are you going to argue that they are a waste as well?
    You said it’s nice having a choice? Well where is the choice for those of us who don’t want the all-in-one? Plenty of us want a nice large display, made by Apple, and a power-user machine that’s made with a thermally tolerant design and the ability to replace storage devices and RAM. Where’s our choice?

    Haha. Give me a break. So now Apple should make products that fit everyone's needs? Apple doesn't owe you a standalone display. Apple makes the products they want to make. You don't like what they offer you do have a choice. Many choices! It's not Apple's fault you don't like what those alternatives are.
    fastasleep
  • Reply 80 of 122
    crowley said:
    elijahg said:
    michelb76 said:
    elijahg said:
    Smaller (cheaper) Mac Pro might be the fabled xMac??! We can but dream...
    Who said cheaper? One can only hope this is going to be better priced than a hackintosh.
    I might be wrong, but I would hope even Apple doesn’t have the gall to charge the same price for the full size Mac Pro as the Mac Mini Pro. 
    Wasn't that basically the reason the G4 Cube failed, that it was basically the same price as the PowerMac G4, with no benefits other that a pretty design?
    The Power Mac G4 Cube was $200 more than the faster and more expandable Power Mac G4 that was released at the same time.  That is why it failed.  Cost more, did less.
    muthuk_vanalingam
Sign In or Register to comment.