Apple brings back 'AirTags' anti-stalking feature in latest iOS 14.5 beta

13

Comments

  • Reply 41 of 61
    jd_in_sbjd_in_sb Posts: 1,600member
    I hope Apple adds this technology to Air Pods so I don’t lose them. 
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 42 of 61
    mike1mike1 Posts: 3,275member
    Xed said:
    mike1 said:
    Xed said:
    Dogperson said:
    I have not followed all the “what ifs” in this conversation but I am thinking Lojack for my little camper! No fees, easy to hide.....
    Waiting...…🙂
    Yes, but it would also be easy to locate on your camper. There are only 2 options (as far as I know) of phones that support UWB, which this device will reportedly have, but it won't take long to have a program written that looks for these devices.

    Now, that isn't to say that this simple Linux app could read the encrypted data—it won't—but it doesn't have to. Of course, crimes of opportunity usually aren't going to have people scanning for devices so this will certainly help.
    I think that's his point. Bury a little AirTag somewhere in the camper and if it's stolen, it would be easy to track and find.

    Oh, I get his point. My point is that the AirTag would also be easy to "track and find" and then remove so that the camper would not be easy to "track and find". That was my point. In terms of cost, AirTags or Tile can't be beat.
    Gotcha, but we'd have to see how granular the location became. In a camper, for instance, there are a million places to hide something the size of a quarter.
    And nothing I've read would allow the thief to disable the AirTag if it wasn't located.

    watto_cobra
  • Reply 43 of 61
    crowley said:
    This is going to be a real PAIN. Suppose I get on a train for a couple of hours and ten people are in the train with their own AirTags. Am I going to get notifications from that? How would iOS know when I'm being tracked and when I'm not? Is it just based on time? What's the time minimum that triggers the warning? An hour? A day? A week?
    An iPhone can already detect when you're driving, it'll probably disable the alert during high speed travel.
    So then if it’s disabled at high speeds, then just plant it in said persons vehicle to track their general location...
  • Reply 44 of 61
    The best way to do this would be with machine learning to determine if the tracker has a high enough probability that it’s a stalking tracker.
  • Reply 45 of 61
    crowleycrowley Posts: 10,453member
    crowley said:
    This is going to be a real PAIN. Suppose I get on a train for a couple of hours and ten people are in the train with their own AirTags. Am I going to get notifications from that? How would iOS know when I'm being tracked and when I'm not? Is it just based on time? What's the time minimum that triggers the warning? An hour? A day? A week?
    An iPhone can already detect when you're driving, it'll probably disable the alert during high speed travel.
    So then if it’s disabled at high speeds, then just plant it in said persons vehicle to track their general location...
    I already addressed that.

    Do you guys seriously dream you're thinking up things that wouldn't  have occurred to Apple?  You can't have a very high regard of Apple.
  • Reply 46 of 61
    flydogflydog Posts: 1,123member
    This is going to be a real PAIN. Suppose I get on a train for a couple of hours and ten people are in the train with their own AirTags. Am I going to get notifications from that? How would iOS know when I'm being tracked and when I'm not? Is it just based on time? What's the time minimum that triggers the warning? An hour? A day? A week?
    Geee why didn’t Apple think of that?

    /s
  • Reply 47 of 61
    flydogflydog Posts: 1,123member
    gatorguy said:
    crowley said:
    sirdir said:
    This is going to be a real PAIN. Suppose I get on a train for a couple of hours and ten people are in the train with their own AirTags. Am I going to get notifications from that? How would iOS know when I'm being tracked and when I'm not? Is it just based on time? What's the time minimum that triggers the warning? An hour? A day? A week?
    If the owner is nearby the tag, I guess that would suppress that kind of message. 
    As I said above, that might solve the problem. Except that some people turn off their phones, (which is what some people do on airplanes, to save energy when they can't call) and when that happens, the alarms will have to start triggering again. Or in another case, if the luggage is just out of range of the person who owns the phone, but you're within range of that same luggage. It depends how the range feature is implemented. There will be many scenarios like this which will create so many false alarms the feature will just be turned off by users.
    Ok?  Most people don't have much of a concern with being stalked anyway.
    it would only take one or two high-profile kidnapping or murder cases where an Airtag helped make it possible for it to suddenly become a major issue. I'd be certain Apple has realized that too and may be working with Google on Android compatibility.

    Many things can be used to aid in a robbery or kidnapping.  Is Ford supposed to stop making cars because they may be used in a bank robbery? 

    The concern is privacy, not preventing kidnappings and robberies. 
  • Reply 48 of 61
    flydogflydog Posts: 1,123member
    sirdir said:
    This is going to be a real PAIN. Suppose I get on a train for a couple of hours and ten people are in the train with their own AirTags. Am I going to get notifications from that? How would iOS know when I'm being tracked and when I'm not? Is it just based on time? What's the time minimum that triggers the warning? An hour? A day? A week?
    If the owner is nearby the tag, I guess that would suppress that kind of message. 
    As I said above, that might solve the problem. Except that some people turn off their phones, (which is what some people do on airplanes, to save energy when they can't call) and when that happens, the alarms will have to start triggering again. Or in another case, if the luggage is just out of range of the person who owns the phone, but you're within range of that same luggage. It depends how the range feature is implemented. There will be many scenarios like this which will create so many false alarms the feature will just be turned off by users.
    How about waiting until they are released (and you actually know how they work) before conjuring up half a dozen absurd scenarios to prove your baseless claim that they will trigger false alarms?
    hexclock
  • Reply 49 of 61
    hexclockhexclock Posts: 1,243member
    kkqd1337 said:
    Wouldn’t this feature also notify a thief they have an airtag they need to find and destroy in/on the item they just stole?
    Oooo that’s a good one. Pull it out of the purse and stick it on a passing taxi. 
  • Reply 50 of 61
    hexclockhexclock Posts: 1,243member
    flydog said:
    sirdir said:
    This is going to be a real PAIN. Suppose I get on a train for a couple of hours and ten people are in the train with their own AirTags. Am I going to get notifications from that? How would iOS know when I'm being tracked and when I'm not? Is it just based on time? What's the time minimum that triggers the warning? An hour? A day? A week?
    If the owner is nearby the tag, I guess that would suppress that kind of message. 
    As I said above, that might solve the problem. Except that some people turn off their phones, (which is what some people do on airplanes, to save energy when they can't call) and when that happens, the alarms will have to start triggering again. Or in another case, if the luggage is just out of range of the person who owns the phone, but you're within range of that same luggage. It depends how the range feature is implemented. There will be many scenarios like this which will create so many false alarms the feature will just be turned off by users.
    How about waiting until they are released (and you actually know how they work) before conjuring up half a dozen absurd scenarios to prove your baseless claim that they will trigger false alarms?
    What’s the fun in that? These absurd scenarios  are hilarious to read. 
  • Reply 51 of 61
    mike1 said:
    Xed said:
    mike1 said:
    Xed said:
    Dogperson said:
    I have not followed all the “what ifs” in this conversation but I am thinking Lojack for my little camper! No fees, easy to hide.....
    Waiting...…🙂
    Yes, but it would also be easy to locate on your camper. There are only 2 options (as far as I know) of phones that support UWB, which this device will reportedly have, but it won't take long to have a program written that looks for these devices.

    Now, that isn't to say that this simple Linux app could read the encrypted data—it won't—but it doesn't have to. Of course, crimes of opportunity usually aren't going to have people scanning for devices so this will certainly help.
    I think that's his point. Bury a little AirTag somewhere in the camper and if it's stolen, it would be easy to track and find.

    Oh, I get his point. My point is that the AirTag would also be easy to "track and find" and then remove so that the camper would not be easy to "track and find". That was my point. In terms of cost, AirTags or Tile can't be beat.
    Gotcha, but we'd have to see how granular the location became. In a camper, for instance, there are a million places to hide something the size of a quarter.
    And nothing I've read would allow the thief to disable the AirTag if it wasn't located.

    But won't that message popping up alert the thief that there is a tag hidden somewhere?
  • Reply 52 of 61
    crowleycrowley Posts: 10,453member
    hexclock said:
    kkqd1337 said:
    Wouldn’t this feature also notify a thief they have an airtag they need to find and destroy in/on the item they just stole?
    Oooo that’s a good one. Pull it out of the purse and stick it on a passing taxi. 
    Hmm, that's actually an interesting observation.  Any measure Apple put in place to stop people being stalked is in direct conflict with tracking items that have been stolen.  I wonder how they're going to work around that.
  • Reply 53 of 61
    hexclockhexclock Posts: 1,243member
    crowley said:
    hexclock said:
    kkqd1337 said:
    Wouldn’t this feature also notify a thief they have an airtag they need to find and destroy in/on the item they just stole?
    Oooo that’s a good one. Pull it out of the purse and stick it on a passing taxi. 
    Hmm, that's actually an interesting observation.  Any measure Apple put in place to stop people being stalked is in direct conflict with tracking items that have been stolen.  I wonder how they're going to work around that.
    Maybe the software can transmit a fake location to the “alien” tag stuck on your car, so the stalker heads east when you turn west . Something like that. 
  • Reply 54 of 61
    An "anti-stalking" feature would seem to be at odds with being able to find a stolen item.  If the proposed feature can notify an iPhone user of an AirTag that has been near them for an extended period of time, then that same capability can notify a thief that the item they've stolen is being tracked.

    I hope that I'm simply not seeing an obvious solution for this one.
  • Reply 55 of 61
    crowleycrowley Posts: 10,453member
    hexclock said:
    crowley said:
    hexclock said:
    kkqd1337 said:
    Wouldn’t this feature also notify a thief they have an airtag they need to find and destroy in/on the item they just stole?
    Oooo that’s a good one. Pull it out of the purse and stick it on a passing taxi. 
    Hmm, that's actually an interesting observation.  Any measure Apple put in place to stop people being stalked is in direct conflict with tracking items that have been stolen.  I wonder how they're going to work around that.
    Maybe the software can transmit a fake location to the “alien” tag stuck on your car, so the stalker heads east when you turn west . Something like that. 
    I don't understand the relevance.  The problem is that neither the tag or the software know if it's a case of a stalker planting a tag on an unsuspecting person, or of a very suspect person stealing whatever has been tagged.  In the first instance you'd want a notification that you may have been tagged against your will, in the latter instance such a notification would be somewhat defeating to the point of having the item tagged.
  • Reply 56 of 61
    jcs2305jcs2305 Posts: 1,336member
    gatorguy said:
    crowley said:
    sirdir said:
    This is going to be a real PAIN. Suppose I get on a train for a couple of hours and ten people are in the train with their own AirTags. Am I going to get notifications from that? How would iOS know when I'm being tracked and when I'm not? Is it just based on time? What's the time minimum that triggers the warning? An hour? A day? A week?
    If the owner is nearby the tag, I guess that would suppress that kind of message. 
    As I said above, that might solve the problem. Except that some people turn off their phones, (which is what some people do on airplanes, to save energy when they can't call) and when that happens, the alarms will have to start triggering again. Or in another case, if the luggage is just out of range of the person who owns the phone, but you're within range of that same luggage. It depends how the range feature is implemented. There will be many scenarios like this which will create so many false alarms the feature will just be turned off by users.
    Ok?  Most people don't have much of a concern with being stalked anyway.
    it would only take one or two high-profile kidnapping or murder cases where an Airtag helped make it possible for it to suddenly become a major issue. I'd be certain Apple has realized that too and may be working with Google on Android compatibility.
    My whole point is that most people (not me) have a very low tolerance for unwanted messages, so they would turn off the feature, and then end up being stalked/killed/etc. So Apple will say "it wasn't our fault, we allowed people to enable stalking detection" but nobody is going to use that feature because it might be very annoying. And if nobody uses the feature, it won't actually work or save anyone from being stalked.

    My relatives whom I support will likely demand that the feature be turned off if they get false alarms. And if they keep the feature enabled, they won't have the wherewithal to realize when there's a threat.
    It appears that this notification would be triggered if a user was carrying an "AirTag" that did not belong to them. As that could mean it was planted, the notification read "This item has been moving with you for a while."

    It says carrying so I would think that this would need to be on your actual person to trigger the warning. Not just sitting on a train or in someone else's luggage that happens to be nearby.


    edited March 2021
  • Reply 57 of 61
    crowleycrowley Posts: 10,453member
    jcs2305 said:
    gatorguy said:
    crowley said:
    sirdir said:
    This is going to be a real PAIN. Suppose I get on a train for a couple of hours and ten people are in the train with their own AirTags. Am I going to get notifications from that? How would iOS know when I'm being tracked and when I'm not? Is it just based on time? What's the time minimum that triggers the warning? An hour? A day? A week?
    If the owner is nearby the tag, I guess that would suppress that kind of message. 
    As I said above, that might solve the problem. Except that some people turn off their phones, (which is what some people do on airplanes, to save energy when they can't call) and when that happens, the alarms will have to start triggering again. Or in another case, if the luggage is just out of range of the person who owns the phone, but you're within range of that same luggage. It depends how the range feature is implemented. There will be many scenarios like this which will create so many false alarms the feature will just be turned off by users.
    Ok?  Most people don't have much of a concern with being stalked anyway.
    it would only take one or two high-profile kidnapping or murder cases where an Airtag helped make it possible for it to suddenly become a major issue. I'd be certain Apple has realized that too and may be working with Google on Android compatibility.
    My whole point is that most people (not me) have a very low tolerance for unwanted messages, so they would turn off the feature, and then end up being stalked/killed/etc. So Apple will say "it wasn't our fault, we allowed people to enable stalking detection" but nobody is going to use that feature because it might be very annoying. And if nobody uses the feature, it won't actually work or save anyone from being stalked.

    My relatives whom I support will likely demand that the feature be turned off if they get false alarms. And if they keep the feature enabled, they won't have the wherewithal to realize when there's a threat.
    What would make you think that the airtag wouldn't be tied back your apple Id, the same way find my currently works? Find my doesn't ping and show every single apple device in around you, it only shows your devices signed into your apple id. If someone else wanted to track their device with your device they would need to go to find my and sign in with their apple id in order to ping and locate what they are looking for.

    Did you even read the thread article?
  • Reply 58 of 61
    jcs2305jcs2305 Posts: 1,336member
    crowley said:
    jcs2305 said:
    gatorguy said:
    crowley said:
    sirdir said:
    This is going to be a real PAIN. Suppose I get on a train for a couple of hours and ten people are in the train with their own AirTags. Am I going to get notifications from that? How would iOS know when I'm being tracked and when I'm not? Is it just based on time? What's the time minimum that triggers the warning? An hour? A day? A week?
    If the owner is nearby the tag, I guess that would suppress that kind of message. 
    As I said above, that might solve the problem. Except that some people turn off their phones, (which is what some people do on airplanes, to save energy when they can't call) and when that happens, the alarms will have to start triggering again. Or in another case, if the luggage is just out of range of the person who owns the phone, but you're within range of that same luggage. It depends how the range feature is implemented. There will be many scenarios like this which will create so many false alarms the feature will just be turned off by users.
    Ok?  Most people don't have much of a concern with being stalked anyway.
    it would only take one or two high-profile kidnapping or murder cases where an Airtag helped make it possible for it to suddenly become a major issue. I'd be certain Apple has realized that too and may be working with Google on Android compatibility.
    My whole point is that most people (not me) have a very low tolerance for unwanted messages, so they would turn off the feature, and then end up being stalked/killed/etc. So Apple will say "it wasn't our fault, we allowed people to enable stalking detection" but nobody is going to use that feature because it might be very annoying. And if nobody uses the feature, it won't actually work or save anyone from being stalked.

    My relatives whom I support will likely demand that the feature be turned off if they get false alarms. And if they keep the feature enabled, they won't have the wherewithal to realize when there's a threat.
    What would make you think that the airtag wouldn't be tied back your apple Id, the same way find my currently works? Find my doesn't ping and show every single apple device in around you, it only shows your devices signed into your apple id. If someone else wanted to track their device with your device they would need to go to find my and sign in with their apple id in order to ping and locate what they are looking for.

    Did you even read the thread article?
      I only half ass read it originally and you got a comment out before I had a chance to edit it. B)

  • Reply 59 of 61
    AppleZuluAppleZulu Posts: 1,989member
    hexclock said:
    flydog said:
    sirdir said:
    This is going to be a real PAIN. Suppose I get on a train for a couple of hours and ten people are in the train with their own AirTags. Am I going to get notifications from that? How would iOS know when I'm being tracked and when I'm not? Is it just based on time? What's the time minimum that triggers the warning? An hour? A day? A week?
    If the owner is nearby the tag, I guess that would suppress that kind of message. 
    As I said above, that might solve the problem. Except that some people turn off their phones, (which is what some people do on airplanes, to save energy when they can't call) and when that happens, the alarms will have to start triggering again. Or in another case, if the luggage is just out of range of the person who owns the phone, but you're within range of that same luggage. It depends how the range feature is implemented. There will be many scenarios like this which will create so many false alarms the feature will just be turned off by users.
    How about waiting until they are released (and you actually know how they work) before conjuring up half a dozen absurd scenarios to prove your baseless claim that they will trigger false alarms?
    What’s the fun in that? These absurd scenarios  are hilarious to read. 
    Remember when fingerprint readers were announced and we were all facing rampant schemes to collect our fingerprints and/or to sever our fingers to unlock our stolen phones?
  • Reply 60 of 61
    What if the person being stalked has no iPhone telling him/her about that?
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