Toyota president tells Apple to prepare for the long-haul with 'Apple Car'

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  • Reply 41 of 52
    There is a way to avoid supporting it for 40 years. Don't ever sell the car to anyone. Go with an Uber/lift like business model. 
    How about leasing? Can a person who leases a car get it fixed with parts that are unapproved by the manufacturer?
    Repairs on leased vehicles are typically covered under warranty and fixed by the lessor.  If excessive wear and tear occur during the leasing period, the lease agreement spells out who is responsible for the cost of repair.  The lease also usually spells out whether or not OEM parts are required.

    What Mr. Toyoda is referencing applies primarily to the relationship between vehicle buyers and the car companies.  Lessees are a different category of customer.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 42 of 52
    M68000M68000 Posts: 512member
    Self-driving cars might work on regular roads when the roads are clear and the road markings are visible, but in Canada the roads are not clear for a third of the year so it's not yet possible for self-driving cars to work here in the winter, which means cars as a service will probably never be popular here. That would be about as useful as cars powered by sails, when some days there just isn't any wind.
    Great points.  The other question is what these self driving cars will look like - will they have camera arrays visible all over the vehicle?  Up on top of the roof?  Maybe some radio telescope type dish mounted on it, Or radar dish spinning around on top? LOL  Would these self driving cars be ugly to look at?  Who would want all kinds of cameras and sensor gear visible on their vehicle,  it’s hilarious to think about
    edited March 2021
  • Reply 43 of 52
    Foxconn is getting into the car making business.

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/foxconn-to-build-cars-for-electric-vehicle-startup-fisker-11614169530

    "Taipei-based Foxconn and Los Angeles-based Fisker have signed a memorandum of understanding to jointly produce more than 250,000 vehicles a year, the companies said in a statement Wednesday."

    watto_cobra
  • Reply 44 of 52
    palegolaspalegolas Posts: 1,352member
    I think it was a great statement. Welcoming change, and telling them to also learn from their seniors when it comes to something very important, to help them avoid chaos down the line. Imagine the network of Apple Car certified repair shops around the world. It needs to be vast! Apple will probably try to engineer the vehicle(s) so that minimal service is required. I've heard from a few Tesla owners that they're pretty frustrated with Tesla's service experience over here in Norway. They often need service. Perhaps due to our climate here? But there's they're always in for weeks to months of waiting time. Whether it's because Teslas need more service, or there are too few repair shops, I don't know. Perhaps a bit of both?
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 45 of 52
    radarthekatradarthekat Posts: 3,544moderator
    Yes, because Apple knows nothing about long term service and support. 

    In terms of cars, they actually don't.
    Very true. They won't be able to get out of stopping support and spares production after 5 years. Then there is the right to repair. There is no way that Apple would ever be charging me through the nose to change the brake pads. These are commodity items and any half-decent mechanic including myself can change them. The same goes for tyres and wiper blades.
    Apple will be on a huge learning curve. What has worked for their business so far won't work when you get into the Automotive business.

    I don’t think this is an issue as my guess is they will not be selling cars, they will be selling a service. All maintenance and decisions to take older versions off the road to be recycled are completely within Apple’s capabilities. 
    Was reading through the comments wondering if I’d have to make this point.  You got there first.  Yup, Apple will make cars, they just won’t sell any.  
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 46 of 52
    radarthekatradarthekat Posts: 3,544moderator
    cloudguy said:
    Yes, because Apple knows nothing about long term service and support. 

    In terms of cars, they actually don't.
    Very true. They won't be able to get out of stopping support and spares production after 5 years. Then there is the right to repair. There is no way that Apple would ever be charging me through the nose to change the brake pads. These are commodity items and any half-decent mechanic including myself can change them. The same goes for tyres and wiper blades.
    Apple will be on a huge learning curve. What has worked for their business so far won't work when you get into the Automotive business.
    Apple is the only PC company from 45 years ago to still standing -- and not only still standing, but the most successful PC company. And not only the most successful PC company, but the most successful public company in history. If all that proves anything, it's that they know how to adapt. If you're still betting against Apple at this point, dunno what to say, I hope you aren't a betting man.
    1. HP was founded in 1932.
    2. Acer was founded in 1976.

    So you are wrong there. 

    The most successful PC company ... has 8% market share for #4 overall? 1/3 the market share of #1 and 1/2 the market share of #3? Only 6 million more sold than #6? In their best year in history? Again wrong.

    Apple is the most successful public company in history ... because of the iPhone and the iPad. The services related to the iPhone and iPad make more profit than the rest of their divisions combined. 

    Bet against Apple? No. But take the position that Apple isn't necessarily going to dominate or redefine every single space that it enters? Well we have the HomePod, Apple TV, Apple TV+ and Apple Arcade as evidence. And when you consider that most of the actual innovation in the mobile space the past 6-7 years (if not more) has come from Android then you should revise that to how Apple fans should stop dismissing Apple's competitors. Even when they trip over and embarrass themselves - Microsoft with Zune and Windows Mobile, Samsung with Bixby and Tizen, Google With Android Things and wearables, Dell with bankruptcy - they generally stick around and do very well for themselves. The same will happen in the car industry too.
    You're confusing corporate existence with selling personal computers. 

    - Apple began selling PCs in 1976. Multitech (renamed Acer in 1987) didn't begin selling clones until 1981.
    - HP was founded in 1939; in the '60-70s it was selling programmable calculators. Sure these were early "computers" but they didn't have real displays or even alpha keyboards. They got screens & became scientific computers for engineering around 1980:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HP_series_80

    You can argue Mac market share until you're blue in the face, doesn't fucking matter. Most successful is based on profit and value. So nope, not wrong -- Apple remains the most successful. And for countless quarters even their smaller market share PC division earned more than the other PC makers. Again, profit is the air corporations breath -- not some neckbeard hot take on market share. Welcome to business.

    Then a tangent about shit unrelated to the point -- which was...that Apple knows how to adapt and survive. Thus, I'm not worried about them being able to service EVs. lol
    Glad you stepped in.  Saved me the effort.  Pretty much every assertion in his original list is a misrepresentation of reality.  Maybe he actually believes what he’s writing. If so, I hope he has someone else invest his money for him. 
    roundaboutnowwatto_cobra
  • Reply 47 of 52
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    Welcome,
    Apple.

    Seriously.


    Japanese just keep on copying American technology!  (/s)
    null inline image

    dewmeroundaboutnowwatto_cobra
  • Reply 48 of 52
    rcomeaurcomeau Posts: 65member
    There is a way to avoid supporting it for 40 years.
    Don't ever sell the car to anyone. 
    Go with an Uber/lift like business model. A person pays so much per month to have a car available all the time. The car shows up when needed.  After the vehicle has been completely depreciated in a few years, scrap it and put out the new model.
    40 years, yeah right.
    Most people don't buy cars just to get from A to B or carry the groceries for the same reason we don't all just wear burlap sacs for clothes. Cars are an also expression of ourselves, so driving that grey Prius on weekends for groceries does not cut it for most car buyers. I am not saying this is good, but it is human nature and why we have so many different model cars and clothes other than burlap sacs.
    muthuk_vanalingamwatto_cobra
  • Reply 49 of 52
    ApplePoorApplePoor Posts: 179member
    There is federal law in existence that there must be parts for at least seven years from the date of manufacture. That is the minimum commitment.
    GeorgeBMacwatto_cobra
  • Reply 50 of 52
    1348513485 Posts: 244member
    Because it hasn’t happened yet, does NOT imply that it can never happen. Some markets are just not ripe until some technology or innovation or change in culture has come and opened those doors. This is not to say this service would be for everyone, but if the timing is right and all the necessary requirements all intersect, then who is to say if it will or will not be profitable. I personally do not know. But I do know that Apple is all about user experience and a customized driverless transportation vehicle could be a very wonderful user experience. 
    Well of course. All things are possible, and may even already exist, in a quantum universe/s. You may also, if everything falls into place in this one, win the lottery, although even that actual likelihood is somewhat problematic in practical terms.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 51 of 52
    Take your iPhone, throw it on the ground, drag it for a hundred miles through mud and rocks, stomp on it along the way, Do that every day for ten years. Hose it off. Does it still work perfectly and look all shiny and new? Obviously not but that's the challenge when you design an automobile. This can't be a passing fancy as Toyota points out. Apple's best bet is to buy an established automobile manufacturer. There will be major culture clash. That's pretty much unavoidable but only an established automobile manufacturer has the decades of experience you need to produce a reliable safe automobile and support it over the long term. Look at all the issues Tesla has when it comes to reliability. Tesla will eventually be able to produce reliable safe automobiles to a degree that it becomes boring but that will take another decade or three.
    edited March 2021
  • Reply 52 of 52
    CarmBCarmB Posts: 58member
    Apple might not have any background in long-term involvement in the auto industry but that doesn’t mean all the hires brought in to work on the Apple Car are lacking in experience. 

    You can gain insight into the industry by hiring people with the background to provide it. My guess is that Apple has done just that. Certainly there is no indication that Apple is rushing this process nor is it Apple’s MO, especially under Tim Cook’s leadership.

    If Apple does this, it’s unlikely to be a poorly executed exercise. 
    watto_cobra
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