Sad to see them die

Posted:
in General Discussion edited January 2014
There have been 16 deaths in an accident in the War effort in Iraq. I have the deepest respect for the entire military and to see these people die is a reminder of the price some pay for the freedom of us all. It was an accident but the risk these people assumed for us is forever indebted.



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Fellowship
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  • Reply 1 of 35
    torifiletorifile Posts: 4,024member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by FellowshipChurch iBook

    There have been 16 deaths in an accident in the War effort in Iraq. I have the deepest respect for the entire military and to see these people die is a reminder of the price some pay for the freedom of us all. It was an accident but the risk these people assumed for us is forever indebted.



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    Fellowship




    An "accident". Are there going to be any US/UK soldier deaths due to enemy fire? I'm a little skeptical. Anyway, the bloodshed has begun. I hope it ends quickly.
  • Reply 2 of 35
    giaguaragiaguara Posts: 2,724member
    Only 16 Iraqis are dead there?



  • Reply 3 of 35
    paulpaul Posts: 5,278member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Mulattabianca

    Only 16 Iraqis are dead there?







    they are american/UK soldiers (12/4) the first casualties... it was an accident too, not even from enemy fire...
  • Reply 4 of 35
    eugeneeugene Posts: 8,254member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Paul

    they are american/UK soldiers (12/4) the first casualties... it was an accident too, not even from enemy fire...



    4 Americans (the crew of the Chinook) and 12 British being transported.



    Seems sand and wind are more dangerous than the Iraqi military.
  • Reply 5 of 35
    eugeneeugene Posts: 8,254member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by torifile

    An "accident". Are there going to be any US/UK soldier deaths due to enemy fire? I'm a little skeptical. Anyway, the bloodshed has begun. I hope it ends quickly.



    I see no reason to be overly skeptical since chopper crashes have been alarmingly common in recent months. Wasn't it just a couple weeks ago that a Black Hawk crashed in New York...killing 11?



    Do a search on cnn.com for "helicopter crash" and you'll get the idea. You'll see links to a military chopper crash in Honduras in December, the Mount Hood rescue crash in May, and so on.



    Remember, they aren't just flying like traffic reporting helicopters, they're going fast, flying low, over unusual terrain, etc.
  • Reply 6 of 35
    Quote:

    Originally posted by torifile

    An "accident". Are there going to be any US/UK soldier deaths due to enemy fire? I'm a little skeptical. Anyway, the bloodshed has begun. I hope it ends quickly.



    I don't think this is going to end quickly. I think that President Bush said that this was going to be a long campaign in his address yesterday.
  • Reply 7 of 35
    costiquecostique Posts: 1,084member
    So you hoped to kill another million innocent women and children without any losses on your side? Remember, Iraqis will fight for their freedom against the aggressors, and there will be bloodshed, and there will be a partisan war, and they'll shoot American/British soldiers in their backs, and you won't have the moral right to protest. Because Iraq is defending its sovereign territory and it's none of your business to like or not to like their president. If Saddam is a dictator, it's none of your business either. Since nobody forces you to settle in Iraq, leave it alone.
  • Reply 8 of 35
    Quote:

    Originally posted by costique

    So you hoped to kill another million innocent women and children without any losses on your side? Remember, Iraqis will fight for their freedom against the aggressors, and there will be bloodshed, and there will be a partisan war, and they'll shoot American/British soldiers in their backs, and you won't have the moral right to protest. Because Iraq is defending its sovereign territory and it's none of your business to like or not to like their president. If Saddam is a dictator, it's none of your business either. Since nobody forces you to settle in Iraq, leave it alone.



    Of course Iraq is going to retaliate. That is what you are supposed to do when you go to war. Innocent people die and no one wants to see that, but what can you do when you have a someone who had to win an election by miscounting votes.
  • Reply 9 of 35
    costiquecostique Posts: 1,084member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Mac OS X Addict

    Innocent people die and no one wants to see that, but what can you do when you have a someone who had to win an election by miscounting votes.



    If you mean Saddam, I'm sorry, but why should it be your problem if he is not your president?
  • Reply 10 of 35
    My condolences.
  • Reply 11 of 35
    fellowshipfellowship Posts: 5,038member
    This is off the subject or is it.... Mika I saw your signature and I was reminded of this:



    Jeremiah 50 vs 28-46

    Quote:

    28 Listen to the people who have escaped from Babylon, as they declare in Jerusalem how the LORD our God has taken vengeance against those who destroyed his Temple. 29 "Send out a call for archers to come to Babylon. Surround the city so none can escape. Do to her as she has done to others, for she has defied the LORD, the Holy One of Israel. 30 Her young men will fall in the streets and die. Her warriors will all be killed," says the LORD. 31 "See, I am your enemy, O proud people," says the Lord, the LORD Almighty. "Your day of reckoning has arrived. 32 O land of pride, you will stumble and fall, and no one will raise you up. For I will light a fire in the cities of Babylon that will burn everything around them."



    33 And now the LORD Almighty says this: "The people of Israel and Judah have been wronged. Their captors hold them and refuse to let them go. 34 But the one who redeems them is strong. His name is the LORD Almighty. He will defend them and give them rest again in Israel. But the people of Babylon ? there will be no rest for them! 35 "The sword of destruction will strike the Babylonians," says the LORD. "It will strike the people of Babylon ? her princes and wise men, too. 36 And when it strikes her wise counselors, they will become fools! When it strikes her mightiest warriors, panic will seize them! 37 When it strikes her horses and chariots, her allies from other lands will become as weak as women. When it strikes her treasures, they all will be plundered. 38 It will even strike her water supply, causing it to dry up. And why? Because the whole land is filled with idols, and the people are madly in love with them. 39 "Soon this city of Babylon will be inhabited by ostriches and jackals. It will be a home for the wild animals of the desert. Never again will people live there; it will lie desolate forever. 40 I will destroy it just as I destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah and their neighboring towns," says the LORD. "No one will live there anymore. 41 "Look! A great army is marching from the north! A great nation and many kings are rising against you from far-off lands. 42 They are fully armed for slaughter. They are cruel and show no mercy. As they ride forward, the noise of their army is like a roaring sea. They are marching in battle formation to destroy you, Babylon. 43 The king of Babylon has received reports about the enemy, and he is weak with fright. Fear and pain have gripped him, like that of a woman about to give birth. 44 "I will come like a lion from the thickets of the Jordan, leaping on the sheep in the pasture. I will chase Babylon from its land, and I will appoint the leader of my choice. For who is like me, and who can challenge me? What ruler can oppose my will?" 45 Listen to the LORD's plans against Babylon and the land of the Babylonians. Even little children will be dragged off, and their homes will be empty. 46 The earth will shake with the noise of Babylon's fall, and her cry of despair will be heard around the world."





    Did you notice this:



    Quote:

    A great nation and many kings are rising against you from far-off lands.



    Or this:



    Quote:

    I will chase Babylon from its land, and I will appoint the leader of my choice.



    I just thought this was interesting if nothing else.



    Fellowship
  • Reply 12 of 35
    sammi josammi jo Posts: 4,634member
    Quote:

    [i] I have the deepest respect for the entire military and to see these people die is a reminder of the price some pay for the freedom of us all. It was an accident but the risk these people assumed for us is forever indebted.

    [/B]



    I am skeptical that this war is "for our freedom". If the CIA and others are correct in their assessment of increased potential danger over the next 5 years, or decade, or more, from "blowback attacks" here at home, this war should be described as "fighting *against* our freedom".
  • Reply 13 of 35
    sdw2001sdw2001 Posts: 17,081member
    Costique:



    Quote:

    So you hoped to kill another million innocent women and children without any losses on your side? Remember, Iraqis will fight for their freedom against the aggressors, and there will be bloodshed, and there will be a partisan war, and they'll shoot American/British soldiers in their backs, and you won't have the moral right to protest. Because Iraq is defending its sovereign territory and it's none of your business to like or not to like their president. If Saddam is a dictator, it's none of your business either. Since nobody forces you to settle in Iraq, leave it alone.



    Oh my God. (..must....stifle urge to.....personally....attack)



    I have news for you. WE didn't kill a million people...SADDAM HUSSEIN DID. And, he did it with aid under the polices of the criminally inactive UN.

    Sanctions work, eh? Oh wait...they don't? Which is it? Maybe we should just leave them alone.



    Last time I checked, all wars are "partisan". The rest of your statement is pure garbage. "Iraqis will fight for their freedom"??? From who, exactly? You think they are even remotely free? Do you believe the government staged interviews of Iraqis we see in the streets of Baghdad? It is interesting that one loves Saddam when there is a gun pointed at his head.
  • Reply 14 of 35
    costiquecostique Posts: 1,084member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by SDW2001

    "Iraqis will fight for their freedom"??? From who, exactly?



    From the US occupation, obviously.

    Quote:

    You think they are even remotely free? Do you believe the government staged interviews of Iraqis we see in the streets of Baghdad? It is interesting that one loves Saddam when there is a gun pointed at his head.



    Firstly, it's their country, not yours, by the way, a sovereign country with its own set of laws, good or bad ? it's just none of our business. Secondly, did you personally see guns pointed at the head?

    Quote:

    WE didn't kill a million people...SADDAM HUSSEIN DID.



    What else is the US army doing right now if not killing people?! And I never said Hussein is good. It's just none of our business.

    Quote:

    Maybe we should just leave them alone.



    You must.
  • Reply 15 of 35
    der kopfder kopf Posts: 2,275member
    Fellowship, you seem to deny the coming of Jesus. Let me explain. I think you will agree that his teachings have changed the face of the religion which you (we?) call ours (myself having been raised a Catholic). I mean, you seem to refer to the old testament, and, of course your objectives may be blurred to me, but still, you seem to find in there an explanation for what is happening to the US and Iraq now. Whatever happened to forgiveness and turning the other cheek? It is the discussion that was most strikingly held in the movie 'Dead Man Walking', where Sister Helen Prejean attempted to confront an Old Testemantic 'Eye For an Eye' Father with her believe in forgiveness, learned from Jesus, the one true (or at least the truest) source of christianity. I know, the Old Testament IS part of our Bible, but isn't the New Testament, in matters of conflict, the authoritative source for religious and non-religious people alike?

    Has not, ultimately, Jesus taken the old vengeful God of the Old Testament and replaced it (in our hearts, at least) with a forgiving Father, who would, IMO, never condone an attack on a person, let alone an entire nation of persons. FYI, the highest religious leader in my small country, Cardinal Danneels (said to be a 'papabilus', or possible successor of the pope), has denounced the US attack in strong terms.

    Anyway, I wonder how your stance is on this. (And, as you see, I CAN be respectful if I put my mind to it).
  • Reply 16 of 35
    der kopfder kopf Posts: 2,275member
    About the Iraqi crisis. There are some points which strike me as being a bit hypocritical. The Iraqis have gased and otherwise killed and injured one of their lesser loved population groups (the Kourds in the North):

    - This began in the eighties, when the US were funding Saddam in his Holy War against Iran.

    - Iraq may be behind our 'enlightened' civilisations by some decades, but does anyone remember the treatment of the Native Americans, of the African Americans? American history was written with the blood of the 'different'. Should we forget this? I know, you may make the valid point that 'we' now know that this was gross injustice, and 'we' must prevent this from happening anywhere else.

    - A leader killing his own people... I guess some countries should join forces to attack the US, as its leader, George Bush, has personally procured the killing of a couple of hundred people (Americans not counting the occasional exception) on Death Row when governor of Texas. (Please, this is a fact. What information do YOU have on the people killed in Iraq?).

    - Saddam testing chemicals on his people? What, praytell, did the US government slip to its unknowing soldiers in Korea and Vietnam (and, though unconfirmed, in the first Gulf War, we all, except you US citizens, know about the horrid Gulf War syndrom). LSD and other psychotropes (in the hopes of creating unstoppable fighting machines, but instead creating human wreckage, people turning on their own platoon, people scarred for life, never able the see the world as they did before); heavy chemicals to counteract the US' own chemical weaponry (this being where the Gulf War syndrom comes into play).



    Ah well, some points. Let the tennis match begin.
  • Reply 17 of 35
    haraldharald Posts: 2,152member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by SDW2001

    I have news for you. WE didn't kill a million people...SADDAM HUSSEIN DID.



    Yes you did.



    Cambodia 1970-1975.
  • Reply 18 of 35
    costiquecostique Posts: 1,084member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by der Kopf

    What, praytell, did the US government slip to its unknowing soldiers ... in the first Gulf War, we all, except you US citizens, know about the horrid Gulf War syndrom.



    Damn! I was so sure it was Russian radical-left-wing propaganda that I never bothered to google. It must be a nightmare to read, not to speak of the syndrom itself.
  • Reply 19 of 35
    haraldharald Posts: 2,152member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by der Kopf

    - Saddam testing chemicals on his people? What, praytell, did the US government slip to its unknowing soldiers in Korea and Vietnam (and, though unconfirmed, in the first Gulf War, we all, except you US citizens, know about the horrid Gulf War syndrom). .



    You forgot about the testing of nuclear isotopes on Black Americans post WWII. Again, documented fact and not conspiracy.



    Doesn't make what Saddam did right, but it is another reason why this war stinks.
  • Reply 20 of 35
    torifiletorifile Posts: 4,024member
    der kopf said:



    Quote:

    American history was written with the blood of the 'different'.



    Nicely written, mr. hat.
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