Who looked worse in that audio clip, the anti-war or pro-war people?
And it's funny how that "Iraqi" seemed to drop his accent every few sentences.
Ah yes its a conspiracy!! Never mind the poor girl couldn't give a solid answer without spewing a bunch of ethereal rhetororic. Way to deflect the point...
Unfortunately she was not apt enough to answer with "Like this, by gaining appropriate underground conections and infiltrating the government through less destructive assassinations"
Oh yeah.. sure.. the U.N. will MOST certainly sanction assassination. Hahaha! And since when does anti-war peace movement call for assassinations? ROFL! Dude you're funny.
As far as him gettin' pissed, Iraq has been under the thumb of a cruel dictator, and this girl doesn't seem to have a clue what she's talking about. I don't blame him.
The guy was incredibly rude, I imagine he didn't win over a lot of people just for that reason. So he made a better argument and lost on the tact/charm factor. He'll never work for the UN. Then again...
KVI has been running anti-Saddam pro-war commercials on TV for months where they state the typical criticisms about Bush with voiceovers, "He is a warmonger", "All he cares about is oil" etc and then the punchline is that the He is not Bush but Saddam and then they go Support our Troops, Saddam must Go yada yada yada.
Anyway, scary station though, these guys are measurably well to the right of the Bush administration.
Of course there are some dullards on the anti-war marches....not everyone is an expert on foreign policy, middle east history or the world of high finance.
I was on an anti-war march today (Saturday) and after the final rally, I ended up in a conversation with a woman who was staunchly pro war and we had a really stimulating conversation in a cafe for an hour or more, even if we disagreed on every point raised, (excepting the obvious one of Saddam Hussein being a tyrant). This was in stark contrast to a group of some 40 flag-waving yahoos who hurled insults at the marchers from behind a line of riot police...such sentiments as "Fvck off you Berkeley scum", "send them to Guantanamo Bay", "Saddam Lover, go to Iraq" and more "Anglo-Saxon sentiments I will refrain from including to save the moderators some censoring.
Passions are running high now the bombs have started falling... a friend of my boyfriend who has been an antiwar activist for 4 years had the brake lines cut on his car....and someone on our block with a "Regime Change in Washington" bumper sticker had the rear window on his car smashed. Both cases were in the local paper this morning... It is so sick that "Americans had better watch what they are saying".
Passions are running high now the bombs have started falling... a friend of my boyfriend who has been an antiwar activist for 4 years had the brake lines cut on his car....and someone on our block with a "Regime Change in Washington" bumper sticker had the rear window on his car smashed. Both cases were in the local paper this morning... It is so sick that "Americans had better watch what they are saying".
Wow. That's insane, and highly abberant. Everyone in these parts respects each others' opinions. You should think about moving.
It is so sick that "Americans had better watch what they are saying".
I think you only need to understand the implications of what you say before you say it (or shout it). This war, perhaps more than any other, is one of psychology. If we can persuade most Iraqis to surrender, persuade them that defeat is inevitable, it will swift and bloodless and Saddam will be gone. If Saddam can convince his leaders and troops that victory is possible, it could turn into a bloody slogging match where thousands of Americans (and far more Iraqis) could die. Saddam's only possible route to victory is to hope that the anti-war protests become so loud and so irresistable that Bush has no choice but to give up.
Peace protests while we are at war give aid and comfort to the enemy, and contribute directly to the deaths of American soldiers. If you're cool with that, then go protest. But don't be suprised if it pisses other people off - especially the ones with friends and family over there whom you're enocuraging Saddam to kill.
If you were protesting three days ago, god bless ya. But don't expect any sympathy now.
What an arsehole, calling her a "little girl","little bird".
That guy is off the wall, he's insulting her over and over and interrupting!
The friggin moderator was no help either. Unfortunately she was not apt enough to answer with "Like this, by gaining appropriate underground conections and infiltrating the government through less destructive assassinations"
The guy ignores the problem that the axis of evil is widening pathway and that the US is participating in peculiarly selective "Mother Teresa" mission here.
I'm sure if you endured Saddam Hussein's wrath and tyranny, I am sure you wouldn't be so kind to someone who has NO FRIGGIN CLUE what you went through and is trying to dictate to you how this monster should be handled.
Peace protests while we are at war give aid and comfort to the enemy, and contribute directly to the deaths of American soldiers. If you're cool with that, then go protest. But don't be suprised if it pisses other people off - especially the ones with friends and family over there whom you're enocuraging Saddam to kill.
If you were protesting three days ago, god bless ya. But don't expect any sympathy now.
PRECISELY. It is common knowledge of ANYONE who has studied the history of Saddam's tactics that is a prime user of propoganda. He KNOWS he can't defeat the U.S. Military. Even now, he claims he has U.S. POWs which there is no evidence of. There are reports from reliable news sources saying that he has purchased U.S. military uniforms to videotape Iraqi soldiers dressed in them shooting innocent civilians and airing them to the world so the world goes against the U.S.. Monsters like this COUNT on mistakes made by the U.S., he COUNTS on protesters like those in San Francisco and Chicago to use as propaganda against the U.S. and her government. It is a propaganda war to him, it's the only way he can win any ground at all, and these protests just provide him with more ammunition to throw in the face of the U.S. government. While our troops are fighting and dying overseas, you better damn well stand by them. You wouldn't have your right to protest if it weren't for the brave actions of those people.
The San Francisco Chronicle reported yesterday that plainclothes police videotaped the protests
I suppose the devil is in the details (how the tapes were used), but primae facia this doesn't seem out of line. It's a well-established point of law that there is no expectation of privacy in open, public areas (like streets). That's the legal basis for the surveillance cameras a handful of police departments have deployed in high-crime areas. It doesn't even matter whether or not you're "aware" of being videotaped - that would assume an expectation of privacy.
I can think of only two arguments that might lead you to question the SFPD videotaping. One is that the tapes were used to create profiles of "troublemakers" who were then targeted for future surveillance, instead of purely being used as criminal evidence to prosecute crimes they recorded on tape. But is there evidence of this? The second is that the officers were "undercover", and if not for this subterfuge, they wouldn't have been able (due to the hostility of protesters) to record the videos. But again, this seems to assume an expectation of privacy.
So I really don't see the problem. No one has a problem with videotapes being used as evidence of crimes during riots (erm, Rodney King?) so why should anyone be bothered that the police have the foresight to have video ready if violence breaks out? Isn't it better than relying on officers' hazy memory of who, exactly, threw a brick at them?
Peace protests while we are at war give aid and comfort to the enemy, and contribute directly to the deaths of American soldiers. If you're cool with that, then go protest. But don't be suprised if it pisses other people off - especially the ones with friends and family over there whom you're enocuraging Saddam to kill.
I agree whole-heartedly. This time for protest has passed, we are at war and this is only hurting our soldiers and diverting police and authorities from protecting us here at home. The more I read about anti-war protests the more I resent them, the people that insult the men and women fighting for freedom in Iraq.
Here's an interesting article for all you anti-war people...
Anyone with half a brain must see that Saddam has to be taken out. It is extraordinarily ironic that the anti-war protesters are marching to defend a government which stops its people exercising that freedom.
How protesters can effectively support an evil regime like Saddam's is beyond me. I hope they watch the news today and see the reports of how the regimes violates the Geneva Convention and apparently executed five POW's. How the hell can anyone sleep at night knowing that they are helping perpetuate this regime?
What this says to me is that people are finally realizing what it is that we're doing, why we're doing it and how we are conducting ourselves in the action. I think this approval rating will continue to rise as Saddam's regime displays more weapons they didnt have, violates geneva conventions, puts its own people in harms way etc.
Based on the rallies I have attended (including the ones in Chicago and Milwaukee) and the news coverage I have seen (CNN, MSNBC, BNN, etc.)...the key players who coordinate these protests are the old hippies and college kids. Many of the college students I have talked to have no real stand on anything, they just join the rally just because they were anti-school and anti-government. MANY of these protests have no focus or valid argument. They protest Bush and government...They might intend to protest the war, but the majority of their message that gets out to the rest of America is the protesting of President Bush and the government. If you are anti-war, then fine..have a reason for it. Have a valid argument. There are PLENTY of reasons why we should go to war and very few significant reasons why we shouldn't, but that's based on my experience as a journalism and political science major in the "real world." If you are going to call Bush a terrorist and compare him to Hitler, you better damn well have a valid argument. People in Britain have better and more valid protests than people here in America.
This is correct based upon my experience as well. Furthermore, the acknowledged SPONSORS of these protests are hard-core Lefty holdover groups who've been using college students and others to build media attention and promote their Lefty agendas. If you look behind the major protests, you'll find the same anarchists and commie types who've sponsored civil disorder since the Vietnam war.
Finally, the majority of the protesters out there, assuming that they haven't been duped, wouldn't know a police state if it fell on their feet. But it makes a good sound bite.
The U.S. police and National Guard haven't turned on our own people quite yet...although another Kent State is quite probable given the kind of passions that are running against this war right now.
However...it's happening in Switzerland. Hundreds of schoolkids who were peacefully demonstrating next to the US Mission in Geneva were attacked by riot police for no reason other than being there. One death has been reported.
Anyone guess when Fox or CNN will show the footage?
Comments
And it's funny how that "Iraqi" seemed to drop his accent every few sentences.
BRussel said:
Who looked worse in that audio clip, the anti-war or pro-war people?
And it's funny how that "Iraqi" seemed to drop his accent every few sentences.
Ah yes its a conspiracy!! Never mind the poor girl couldn't give a solid answer without spewing a bunch of ethereal rhetororic. Way to deflect the point...
Originally posted by DigitalMonkeyBoy
Unfortunately she was not apt enough to answer with "Like this, by gaining appropriate underground conections and infiltrating the government through less destructive assassinations"
Oh yeah.. sure.. the U.N. will MOST certainly sanction assassination. Hahaha! And since when does anti-war peace movement call for assassinations? ROFL! Dude you're funny.
As far as him gettin' pissed, Iraq has been under the thumb of a cruel dictator, and this girl doesn't seem to have a clue what she's talking about. I don't blame him.
KVI has been running anti-Saddam pro-war commercials on TV for months where they state the typical criticisms about Bush with voiceovers, "He is a warmonger", "All he cares about is oil" etc and then the punchline is that the He is not Bush but Saddam and then they go Support our Troops, Saddam must Go yada yada yada.
Anyway, scary station though, these guys are measurably well to the right of the Bush administration.
I was on an anti-war march today (Saturday) and after the final rally, I ended up in a conversation with a woman who was staunchly pro war and we had a really stimulating conversation in a cafe for an hour or more, even if we disagreed on every point raised, (excepting the obvious one of Saddam Hussein being a tyrant). This was in stark contrast to a group of some 40 flag-waving yahoos who hurled insults at the marchers from behind a line of riot police...such sentiments as "Fvck off you Berkeley scum", "send them to Guantanamo Bay", "Saddam Lover, go to Iraq" and more "Anglo-Saxon sentiments I will refrain from including to save the moderators some censoring.
Passions are running high now the bombs have started falling... a friend of my boyfriend who has been an antiwar activist for 4 years had the brake lines cut on his car....and someone on our block with a "Regime Change in Washington" bumper sticker had the rear window on his car smashed. Both cases were in the local paper this morning... It is so sick that "Americans had better watch what they are saying".
Originally posted by sammi jo
Passions are running high now the bombs have started falling... a friend of my boyfriend who has been an antiwar activist for 4 years had the brake lines cut on his car....and someone on our block with a "Regime Change in Washington" bumper sticker had the rear window on his car smashed. Both cases were in the local paper this morning... It is so sick that "Americans had better watch what they are saying".
Wow. That's insane, and highly abberant. Everyone in these parts respects each others' opinions. You should think about moving.
Originally posted by groverat
Apparently cops in New York had better watch themselves as well, 11 of them were maced in the latest protests there.
Oh crap, better apologize to the police...
http://stream.realimpact.net/rihurl....a&start=8:43.8
Story: WILL THE PENTAGON TARGET JOURNALISTS IN IRAQ? AN INTERVIEW WITH
VETERAN BBC WAR CORRESPONDENT KATE ADIE
A BBC war correspondent says the Pentagon told her the military will target satellite communications of
journalists in the upcoming war on Iraq.
In an interview on Irish Radio last Sunday, veteran BBC war correspondent Kate Adie said a senior Pentagon
official told her that US planes will target any electronic communications on the ground, even if they are
operated by journalists.
Adie also said that when she questioned the Pentagon official about the consequences of targeting journalists, the
senior Pentagon officer replied QUOTE: "Who cares? . . . They've been warned."
Adie was the BBC's chief news correspondent in 1989 and has covered major wars including the Gulf War and the
conflicts in the former Yugoslavia, Albania, Rwanda, China and Sierra Leone.
Well today, we're joined by Kate Adie, from her home in London.
Kate Adie, BBC war correspondent. She was the BBC's chief news correspondent in 1989 and has
covered major recent wars including the Gulf War and the conflicts in the former Yugoslavia, Albania,
Rwanda, China and Sierra Leone. She was interviewed by the Irish national broadcaster, Tom McGurk
on the RTE1 Radio "Sunday Show."
Doug Struck, Tokyo Bureau Chief for the Washington Post. While covering the war in
Afghanistan, US soldiers aimed their rifles at Struck when he attempted to investigate the impact of a
US missile fired in a remote area, which allegedly killed three al Qaeda members. Struck later reported
the men were not al Qaeda at all, but civilians.
Pentagon Threatens To Kill Independent Reporters In Iraq
http://stream.realimpact.net/rihurl....&start=29:23.8
Story: OAKLAND POLICE BEAT REPORTERS AND YOUNG PEOPLE OF COLOR AT
OTHERWISE PEACEFUL RALLY
We've just heard from a veteran BBC war correspondent that the Pentagon is threatening to target independent
journalists covering the war in Iraq.
But journalists should also be concerned for their safety when they report on anti-war protests here at home.
We're joined right now by Ra'shida Askey, who is a staff writer with the San Francisco Bay View. Ra'shida
Askey says she was reporting on the March 5th student walkout in Oakland, when three police officers jumped
her, banged her head into the ground (breaking her front teeth), and beat her.
Ra'shida Askey, staff writer with the San Francisco Bay View.
Related link:
Get your boot off my neck! - report by Ra'shida Askey in the San Francisco Bay View
Story: SAN FRANCISCO POLICE CONDUCTING UNAUTHORIZED SURVEILLANCE
OPS ON ANTI-WAR ACTIVISTS
San Francisco police have also been conducting undercover surveillance of anti-war activists without proper
authorization by the chief of police.
The San Francisco Chronicle reported yesterday that plainclothes police videotaped the protests on October 26th,
January 18th and February 16th. (One of the officers wore a pin of Che Guevara in his hat.)
The city's Office of Civilian Complaints and Police Commission have both called for a full investigation and the
destruction of the videotapes.
But acting Deputy Police Chief James Dudley and other officers claim the tapes are needed for criminal
investigations.
Mark Schlossberg, attorney with the American Civil Liberties Union in San Francisco.
http://stream.realimpact.net/rihurl....&start=38:44.9
American Civil Liberties Union in San Francisco
SFPD spied on peace marches Watchdog agency says cops' videotaping was unauthorized - San
Francisco Chronicle ........
Hmmm.....Americans had better watch what they are saying.....
Is that kind of sentiment worth fighting for?
Originally posted by sammi jo
It is so sick that "Americans had better watch what they are saying".
I think you only need to understand the implications of what you say before you say it (or shout it). This war, perhaps more than any other, is one of psychology. If we can persuade most Iraqis to surrender, persuade them that defeat is inevitable, it will swift and bloodless and Saddam will be gone. If Saddam can convince his leaders and troops that victory is possible, it could turn into a bloody slogging match where thousands of Americans (and far more Iraqis) could die. Saddam's only possible route to victory is to hope that the anti-war protests become so loud and so irresistable that Bush has no choice but to give up.
Peace protests while we are at war give aid and comfort to the enemy, and contribute directly to the deaths of American soldiers. If you're cool with that, then go protest. But don't be suprised if it pisses other people off - especially the ones with friends and family over there whom you're enocuraging Saddam to kill.
If you were protesting three days ago, god bless ya. But don't expect any sympathy now.
Originally posted by DigitalMonkeyBoy
What an arsehole, calling her a "little girl","little bird".
That guy is off the wall, he's insulting her over and over and interrupting!
The friggin moderator was no help either. Unfortunately she was not apt enough to answer with "Like this, by gaining appropriate underground conections and infiltrating the government through less destructive assassinations"
The guy ignores the problem that the axis of evil is widening pathway and that the US is participating in peculiarly selective "Mother Teresa" mission here.
I'm sure if you endured Saddam Hussein's wrath and tyranny, I am sure you wouldn't be so kind to someone who has NO FRIGGIN CLUE what you went through and is trying to dictate to you how this monster should be handled.
Originally posted by Towel
Peace protests while we are at war give aid and comfort to the enemy, and contribute directly to the deaths of American soldiers. If you're cool with that, then go protest. But don't be suprised if it pisses other people off - especially the ones with friends and family over there whom you're enocuraging Saddam to kill.
If you were protesting three days ago, god bless ya. But don't expect any sympathy now.
PRECISELY. It is common knowledge of ANYONE who has studied the history of Saddam's tactics that is a prime user of propoganda. He KNOWS he can't defeat the U.S. Military. Even now, he claims he has U.S. POWs which there is no evidence of. There are reports from reliable news sources saying that he has purchased U.S. military uniforms to videotape Iraqi soldiers dressed in them shooting innocent civilians and airing them to the world so the world goes against the U.S.. Monsters like this COUNT on mistakes made by the U.S., he COUNTS on protesters like those in San Francisco and Chicago to use as propaganda against the U.S. and her government. It is a propaganda war to him, it's the only way he can win any ground at all, and these protests just provide him with more ammunition to throw in the face of the U.S. government. While our troops are fighting and dying overseas, you better damn well stand by them. You wouldn't have your right to protest if it weren't for the brave actions of those people.
The San Francisco Chronicle reported yesterday that plainclothes police videotaped the protests
I suppose the devil is in the details (how the tapes were used), but primae facia this doesn't seem out of line. It's a well-established point of law that there is no expectation of privacy in open, public areas (like streets). That's the legal basis for the surveillance cameras a handful of police departments have deployed in high-crime areas. It doesn't even matter whether or not you're "aware" of being videotaped - that would assume an expectation of privacy.
I can think of only two arguments that might lead you to question the SFPD videotaping. One is that the tapes were used to create profiles of "troublemakers" who were then targeted for future surveillance, instead of purely being used as criminal evidence to prosecute crimes they recorded on tape. But is there evidence of this? The second is that the officers were "undercover", and if not for this subterfuge, they wouldn't have been able (due to the hostility of protesters) to record the videos. But again, this seems to assume an expectation of privacy.
So I really don't see the problem. No one has a problem with videotapes being used as evidence of crimes during riots (erm, Rodney King?) so why should anyone be bothered that the police have the foresight to have video ready if violence breaks out? Isn't it better than relying on officers' hazy memory of who, exactly, threw a brick at them?
Originally posted by Towel
Peace protests while we are at war give aid and comfort to the enemy, and contribute directly to the deaths of American soldiers. If you're cool with that, then go protest. But don't be suprised if it pisses other people off - especially the ones with friends and family over there whom you're enocuraging Saddam to kill.
I agree whole-heartedly. This time for protest has passed, we are at war and this is only hurting our soldiers and diverting police and authorities from protecting us here at home. The more I read about anti-war protests the more I resent them, the people that insult the men and women fighting for freedom in Iraq.
Here's an interesting article for all you anti-war people...
I was a naive fool to be a human shield for Saddam
His conclusion is very telling...
Anyone with half a brain must see that Saddam has to be taken out. It is extraordinarily ironic that the anti-war protesters are marching to defend a government which stops its people exercising that freedom.
How protesters can effectively support an evil regime like Saddam's is beyond me. I hope they watch the news today and see the reports of how the regimes violates the Geneva Convention and apparently executed five POW's. How the hell can anyone sleep at night knowing that they are helping perpetuate this regime?
Poll by CBS/NY Times shows 74% now approve of the U.S. taking military action against Iraq
What this says to me is that people are finally realizing what it is that we're doing, why we're doing it and how we are conducting ourselves in the action. I think this approval rating will continue to rise as Saddam's regime displays more weapons they didnt have, violates geneva conventions, puts its own people in harms way etc.
Originally posted by filmmaker2002
Based on the rallies I have attended (including the ones in Chicago and Milwaukee) and the news coverage I have seen (CNN, MSNBC, BNN, etc.)...the key players who coordinate these protests are the old hippies and college kids. Many of the college students I have talked to have no real stand on anything, they just join the rally just because they were anti-school and anti-government. MANY of these protests have no focus or valid argument. They protest Bush and government...They might intend to protest the war, but the majority of their message that gets out to the rest of America is the protesting of President Bush and the government. If you are anti-war, then fine..have a reason for it. Have a valid argument. There are PLENTY of reasons why we should go to war and very few significant reasons why we shouldn't, but that's based on my experience as a journalism and political science major in the "real world." If you are going to call Bush a terrorist and compare him to Hitler, you better damn well have a valid argument. People in Britain have better and more valid protests than people here in America.
This is correct based upon my experience as well. Furthermore, the acknowledged SPONSORS of these protests are hard-core Lefty holdover groups who've been using college students and others to build media attention and promote their Lefty agendas. If you look behind the major protests, you'll find the same anarchists and commie types who've sponsored civil disorder since the Vietnam war.
Don't take MY word for it:
http://www.workers.org/
http://www.adl.org/PresRele/Terroris...93/4233_93.asp
A better one:
http://www.workers.org/ww/2003/dcdemo0327.php
Finally, the majority of the protesters out there, assuming that they haven't been duped, wouldn't know a police state if it fell on their feet. But it makes a good sound bite.
However...it's happening in Switzerland. Hundreds of schoolkids who were peacefully demonstrating next to the US Mission in Geneva were attacked by riot police for no reason other than being there. One death has been reported.
Anyone guess when Fox or CNN will show the footage?
http://www.scoop.co.nz/mason/stories/HL0303/S00185.htm
(granted, these are the articles i've read where an actual Iraqi was interviewed, if you have different sources, please point them out)
Duh!