Apple 'pushes the envelope' with iPad Pro say executives

Posted:
in iPad
In another interview about the iPad Pro, Apple marketing chief Greg Joswiak and Apple hardware chief John Ternus explained some of the design decisions that went into the new tablet.




Apple's updated iPad Pro has enjoyed a number of changes for 2021, including the use of mini LED backlighting to create the Liquid Retina XDR display in the 12.9-inch model, and a change in processor to the M1. In a follow-up interview about the changes, Greg Joswiak and John Ternus discussed why Apple made those changes.

"We've always tried to have the best display," said Ternus to TechCrunch. "We're going from the best display on any device like this, and making it even better, because that's what we do and that's why we, we love coming to work every day is to take that next big step."

Later, on the topic of the M1, Joswiak answered the question about the aggressive specifications bump by offering that Apple pushes the envelope. "And by pushing the envelope that has created this space for developers to come in and fill it."

Citing the lack of creative apps for the first iPad Pro and the plethora available today, Joswiak adds "Because we created that capability, we created that performance - and by the way, sold a fairly massive number of them - which is a pretty good combination for developers to then come in and say, I can take advantage of that. There's enough customers here and there's enough performance."

"We create more headroom to performance that developers will figure out how to use."

Ternus added the M1 used in the iPad Pro is the same as the Mac counterparts. "iPad Pro has always had the best Apple Silicon we make."

In mentioning the Center Stage feature for video conferencing, Ternus calls it "one of the examples of some of our favorite stuff to do because of he way it marries the hardware and software right. So, sure it's the camera, but it's also the SoC and the algorithms associated with detecting the person and panning and zooming."

"That's a lot of talented, creative people coming together and trying to find the thing that makes it Apple-like," Ternus added.

This is not the only interview Joswiak and Ternus have conducted following the "Spring Loaded" special event. On Wednesday, an interview with the two men reiterated Apple's position that the iPad and Mac are two separate product lines, and that they would stay that way.


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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 26
    Just announce virtualisation support at WWDC and you can have my wallet. When it can run any ARM OS as an app in iPadOS, they will sell like hotcakes 
    williamlondonwatto_cobra
  • Reply 2 of 26
    KITAKITA Posts: 352member
    The iPad Pro is an amazing piece of hardware, but iPadOS is holding it back from actually being useful for productivity beyond basic or niche tasks. Even previous iPad Pro models are well under-utilized for their hardware capabilities.

    Despite all the flak they get for "not being a tablet", Microsoft's 2015 Surface Pro 4 was the benchmark for productivity in this form factor. Sure, it didn't have smooth touch apps that iOS/iPadOS offers, but it could use the pen for literally any drawing app, OneNote, StaffPad, CAD software, etc. While at the end of the day, it was a still full Windows PC that could run just about any software, VMs and work with pretty much any device (dock, printer, monitor, controller, external storage, wired network, etc.)


    Yes, it was running full desktop PTC Creo in 2015.

    I do hope Apple finally finds a way to bridge macOS and iPadOS for the iPad Pro, because there is so much potential there (keeping my fingers crossed for WWDC21).
    elijahgmike54williamlondonGeorgeBMacjony0
  • Reply 3 of 26
    Hank2.0Hank2.0 Posts: 106member
    Apple's updated iPad Pro has enjoyed a number of changes for 2021, including the use of mini LED backlighting to create the Liquid Retina XDR display in the 12.9-inch model, and a change in processor to the M1. In a follow-up interview about the changes, Greg Joswiak and John Ternus discussed why Apple made those changes. 
    Too bad they didn't explain why they made the change that made the current Magic Keyboard incompatible, effectively making upgraders to spend another $349. Yes, I understand that the case of the new iPad Pro is thicker, but no one could figure out to compensate for A HALF-MILLIMETER difference?

    elijahgwilliamlondonGeorgeBMacurahara
  • Reply 4 of 26
    ppietrappietra Posts: 247member
    Hank2.0 said:
    Apple's updated iPad Pro has enjoyed a number of changes for 2021, including the use of mini LED backlighting to create the Liquid Retina XDR display in the 12.9-inch model, and a change in processor to the M1. In a follow-up interview about the changes, Greg Joswiak and John Ternus discussed why Apple made those changes. 
    Too bad they didn't explain why they made the change that made the current Magic Keyboard incompatible, effectively making upgraders to spend another $349. Yes, I understand that the case of the new iPad Pro is thicker, but no one could figure out to compensate for A HALF-MILLIMETER difference?

    I would imagine it has to do with the new screen. Thicker screen, thicker iPad... not much can be done when it is so thin already.
    williamlondonjony0watto_cobra
  • Reply 5 of 26
    KITA said:
    The iPad Pro is an amazing piece of hardware, but iPadOS is holding it back from actually being useful for productivity beyond basic or niche tasks. Even previous iPad Pro models are well under-utilized for their hardware capabilities.

    Despite all the flak they get for "not being a tablet", Microsoft's 2015 Surface Pro 4 was the benchmark for productivity in this form factor. Sure, it didn't have smooth touch apps that iOS/iPadOS offers, but it could use the pen for literally any drawing app, OneNote, StaffPad, CAD software, etc. While at the end of the day, it was a still full Windows PC that could run just about any software, VMs and work with pretty much any device (dock, printer, monitor, controller, external storage, wired network, etc.)

    I do hope Apple finally finds a way to bridge macOS and iPadOS for the iPad Pro, because there is so much potential there (keeping my fingers crossed for WWDC21).
    ...but Microsoft still haven't nailed it. Surface laptops are the evidences of that. Sure, both iPadOS and macOS has caveats, but Windows got even more. Microsoft have done A LOT of cleaning up in the Windows structure (they had a seriously hard time getting rid of MS Explorer), but compared to *nix based devices it is still a mess, and that mess prevents Microsoft from doing what they want to do. WHEN they switch to Linux kernel/system (and they will) they will be able to progress, and the solution may very well be a Surface pad. But it will ship with 2(3) user interfaces, changing more or less seamlessly upon detection of how it's used, keyboard, touch (or pen). 

    It will be way easier for Apple to turn macOS/MacBook Pro into a touchscreen/pen system than it is for Microsoft to turn Windows with the existing kernel/system into a properly working pad OS. Microsoft needs years just to catch up on the Arm side of things.

    Concerning productivity, that's entirely dependant of the users profession and usage.
  • Reply 6 of 26
    entropysentropys Posts: 2,886member
    Yes, the Surface range of devices, while initially heavily pushed, including by IT departments (one OS instead of two to support I guess and...IT love for Microsoft) seem to have had their day.  Most people seem to go for ‘two in one’ laptops by HP, Lenovo and Dell when they want tablet functionality. I guess MS isn’t heartbroken by that though, they all use Windows 10, although it would like Surface to be a success. But no one should pretend that any of these Win10 devices approaches anywhere within cooey the tablet performance of an iPad, and I expect they mostly get used as a laptop and the touch function is limited to scrolling and initial point to place the cursor.

    But Kita’s point stands, iPadOS does hold the iPad Pro back. The file system, MS Server integration, multi user support, multitasking, multi screens, printer control functionality are software functionality improvements that come right off the top of my head that have been improved over the years, but are still not “there” yet.
    d_2GeorgeBMacjony0watto_cobra
  • Reply 7 of 26
    jdwjdw Posts: 937member
    Apple should reward their loyal customers who purchased the previous model of that EXPENSIVE keyboard by saying, "just bring in your 1st gen keyboard to get 50% off the new model keyboard when purchased with a new 12.9" iPad."  That still won't entirely please the buyer, but it's much better than the current NOTHING, and it will compensate Apple too since they will obviously be still making a profit on an item priced so high.  It's a win-win for both customer and Apple, and as an AAPL investor since 1999, I want to see more positive PR moves like this.  That matters as much to me as all the Green/Eco/Environmental things Apple is pushing, at their own expense.  The nicer you are, the more it keeps Big Brother off your back too, when it comes to things like Antitrust.
    muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 8 of 26
    mike54mike54 Posts: 420member
    The iPad hardware is good, its iPadOS that is holding it back. iPadOS is severely limited. The workflow is not efficient and apps have to much power over your iPad.
    GeorgeBMacwatto_cobra
  • Reply 9 of 26
    canukstormcanukstorm Posts: 2,425member
    entropys said:
    Yes, the Surface range of devices, while initially heavily pushed, including by IT departments (one OS instead of two to support I guess and...IT love for Microsoft) seem to have had their day.  Most people seem to go for ‘two in one’ laptops by HP, Lenovo and Dell when they want tablet functionality. I guess MS isn’t heartbroken by that though, they all use Windows 10, although it would like Surface to be a success. But no one should pretend that any of these Win10 devices approaches anywhere within cooey the tablet performance of an iPad, and I expect they mostly get used as a laptop and the touch function is limited to scrolling and initial point to place the cursor.

    But Kita’s point stands, iPadOS does hold the iPad Pro back. The file system, MS Server integration, multi user support, multitasking, multi screens, printer control functionality are software functionality improvements that come right off the top of my head that have been improved over the years, but are still not “there” yet.
    My guess is probably because the hardware wasn't there yet.  Now with M1 & up to 16GB RAM there's no more excuse.
    jony0watto_cobra
  • Reply 10 of 26
    That’s nice. 

    Would be great if you put that kind of effort in pushing Mac boundaries. 


    d_2
  • Reply 11 of 26
    entropys said:
    But Kita’s point stands, iPadOS does hold the iPad Pro back. The file system, MS Server integration, multi user support, multitasking, multi screens, printer control functionality are software functionality improvements that come right off the top of my head that have been improved over the years, but are still not “there” yet.
     Believe it could be agreed that there's still potential for development. The pressure on iPads and ipadOS is to a great extent caused by the hardware capabilities that continues to be in front. As it should. But keep in mind that the separation from Ios is still very fresh, and the distinction from iOS will evolve.

    As regards interaction with the Microsoft ecosystems, those ecosystems were always used to keep the sheep within the heard. Remember how they in reality killed off Libreoffice (then Openoffice) by using the document formats. There were 3 things killing off the Linux desktop: Ubuntu abandoning Gnome, the document format war, and off course the significant impact iPhones and iPads had on how tech were used. 

    For me, the document formats made it impossible, and in those days 2 of the Linux desktops were way way ahead of both OSX and Windows.

    The sole reason for having MS Office is still interacting with others that are forced to use it and not in-house needs. Thus in my opinion the advantages you listed wrt interoperability are just artificial obstructions. 
  • Reply 12 of 26

    jdw said:
    Apple should reward their loyal customers who purchased the previous model of that EXPENSIVE keyboard by saying, "just bring in your 1st gen keyboard to get 50% off the new model keyboard when purchased with a new 12.9" iPad." 
    Doubt that will ever happen. The 2020 iPad Pro is good for 6-7 years of use, and they sold you an add-on product that suits your main purchase well. It is well known that Apple changes and drops products when they believe it makes sense for them. It annoys me as much as it annoys you, but that's what they will keep on doing.

    On the other hand: If someone buys a 2 year old iPad or iPhone their devices will be kept updated for maybe 4 years. If they buy something high spec 2 years old with Android they'll be in luck if the device was safe for 1 year.

    In other words: You can get rid of  your keyboard for a half decent price together with your iPad. 
  • Reply 13 of 26
    Sure Surface can do more but my IT guys never push it because it’s more practical to own real Windows PC laptop than half tablet/half PC. Apple iPad fills that gaps that Windows having hard time marketing it. 
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 14 of 26
    mike54 said:
    The iPad hardware is good, its iPadOS that is holding it back. iPadOS is severely limited. The workflow is not efficient and apps have to much power over your iPad.
    I have to disagree with you. I have been using an iPad Pro 12.9” as my sole computer since the original came out in 2015. I am high school teacher and have also just finished my masters. Back in 2015-2016 I would have agreed with you. The transition was difficult with significant changes to my workflow and far too many convoluted hacks just to make it tolerable. But things started to change with iOS 10 in 2016, with the split screen and the ability to make multiple selections. Since then it has only continued to improve. I plan all my lessons; make videos and handouts for all my classes; provided written or voice feedback to student assignments; annotated research papers; and planned, organized, wrote and edited papers. 

    I can say that it’s taken some time and plenty of frustration and growth on my part, but I can confidently say that I am faster at selecting, copying, and pasting on my iPad then using a mouse now. The exactness that people love about the mouse is actually a hindrance. So from this perspective I am beginning to see a possible reason for the separation of iPad OS and why it will never the needs that you are saying that limits it. 

    The biggest issue I think that people have with the productivity argument against iPad is screen size. With a mouse you can move effortlessly across two or three wide screen monitors. Each monitor having one or two programs that you want to immediate access to open and ready for that mouse to hover over it; all from the small motions of your worst arm on the desk. But that’s the difference, iPad is a device meant to be held, to be manipulated by touch. One isn’t going to reach across three monitors to touch them, that’s just not efficient.

    So where does that leave iPad and all of its power? My thinking has lead me to recognize that the power of iPad and iPad OS will be the OS that powers Apples push into AR and VR. The hand gestures that I have been trained to do over these past few years will transfer far better to an AR/VR environment than those that rely on a mouse as an input device. This transition will also remove that biggest barrier of screen size when it comes to talk of productivity. Just my two cents. 

    Cheers
    thtdewmejony0watto_cobraTRAG
  • Reply 15 of 26
    Hubro said:
    KITA said:
    The iPad Pro is an amazing piece of hardware, but iPadOS is holding it back from actually being useful for productivity beyond basic or niche tasks. Even previous iPad Pro models are well under-utilized for their hardware capabilities.

    Despite all the flak they get for "not being a tablet", Microsoft's 2015 Surface Pro 4 was the benchmark for productivity in this form factor. Sure, it didn't have smooth touch apps that iOS/iPadOS offers, but it could use the pen for literally any drawing app, OneNote, StaffPad, CAD software, etc. While at the end of the day, it was a still full Windows PC that could run just about any software, VMs and work with pretty much any device (dock, printer, monitor, controller, external storage, wired network, etc.)

    I do hope Apple finally finds a way to bridge macOS and iPadOS for the iPad Pro, because there is so much potential there (keeping my fingers crossed for WWDC21).
    ...but Microsoft still haven't nailed it. Surface laptops are the evidences of that. Sure, both iPadOS and macOS has caveats, but Windows got even more. Microsoft have done A LOT of cleaning up in the Windows structure (they had a seriously hard time getting rid of MS Explorer), but compared to *nix based devices it is still a mess, and that mess prevents Microsoft from doing what they want to do. WHEN they switch to Linux kernel/system (and they will) they will be able to progress, and the solution may very well be a Surface pad. But it will ship with 2(3) user interfaces, changing more or less seamlessly upon detection of how it's used, keyboard, touch (or pen). 

    It will be way easier for Apple to turn macOS/MacBook Pro into a touchscreen/pen system than it is for Microsoft to turn Windows with the existing kernel/system into a properly working pad OS. Microsoft needs years just to catch up on the Arm side of things.

    Concerning productivity, that's entirely dependant of the users profession and usage.
    Ah yes!  I remember when Novell decided Linux was the way of the future...

    That turned out well.
    jony0watto_cobra
  • Reply 16 of 26
    chasmchasm Posts: 2,340member
    KITA said:
    Despite all the flak they get for "not being a tablet", Microsoft's 2015 Surface Pro 4 was the benchmark for productivity in this form factor. Sure, it didn't have smooth touch apps that iOS/iPadOS offers, but it could use the pen for literally any drawing app, OneNote, StaffPad, CAD software, etc. While at the end of the day, it was a still full Windows PC that could run just about any software, VMs and work with pretty much any device (dock, printer, monitor, controller, external storage, wired network, etc.)

    If the Surface line is in your opinion so much better than the iPad, can you explain why the entire Surface line sells about as many units in a year as the iPad sells in roughly a quarter? The entire Surface line might be as high as a $7B annual business for Microsoft (just since 2019, sales were far smaller before then).

    While it is hard to say exactly how much money the iPad brings in precisely, estimates on sales of iPads in 2019 were estimated at $21 billion, and have certainly increased since then (both estimates come from Forbes). IOW, Microsoft likely isn't even doing quite 1/3rd the business the iPad is doing, even with its notable advantages of a) running Windows and b) being positioned as a "hybrid" tablet.

    I think it is fair to say that the direction of future iPads hasn't yet been fully revealed, but clearly the people who actually use them for everyday work (like myself, where it has almost entirely taken over apart from a pair of creative tasks from my MBP) are continuing to be ever happier with the continuing evolution.

    While Kita's post is not without merit, I think the facts speak for themselves. I know many Surface users that enjoy the portability of it very much, but that's almost the sole selling point for them -- they need a "real" PC to do anything much outside Office. Believe me, I've quizzed them about this.

    This is not the sentiment I or most iPad users I have similarly surveyed feel about the iPad. For many consumer-level users, the iPad makes them wonder why on earth they even still have a desktop computer. For iPad Pro users, the thing that comes up again and again in conversations is that the mostly-focused workflow of the iPad actually boosts productivity in everyday tasks, and of course those who use the Apple Pencil wouldn't even consider any other tablet.
    dewmejony0watto_cobra
  • Reply 17 of 26
    Just announce virtualisation support at WWDC and you can have my wallet. When it can run any ARM OS as an app in iPadOS, they will sell like hotcakes 
    Quite sure they will sell like hotcakes anyway.
    williamlondondewmeWgkruegerjony0watto_cobra
  • Reply 18 of 26
    MplsPMplsP Posts: 2,939member
    mike54 said:
    The iPad hardware is good, its iPadOS that is holding it back. iPadOS is severely limited. The workflow is not efficient and apps have to much power over your iPad.
    This. Exactly.

    The A12z was already a powerful processor, but now they’ve put a desktop-class M1 processor in but left it crippled with iPadOS. The A12 was already hamstrung by the OS; they should have spent more time developing the OS rather than upgrading the processor.
    muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 19 of 26
    danvmdanvm Posts: 1,126member
    chasm said:
    KITA said:
    Despite all the flak they get for "not being a tablet", Microsoft's 2015 Surface Pro 4 was the benchmark for productivity in this form factor. Sure, it didn't have smooth touch apps that iOS/iPadOS offers, but it could use the pen for literally any drawing app, OneNote, StaffPad, CAD software, etc. While at the end of the day, it was a still full Windows PC that could run just about any software, VMs and work with pretty much any device (dock, printer, monitor, controller, external storage, wired network, etc.)

    If the Surface line is in your opinion so much better than the iPad, can you explain why the entire Surface line sells about as many units in a year as the iPad sells in roughly a quarter? The entire Surface line might be as high as a $7B annual business for Microsoft (just since 2019, sales were far smaller before then).

    While it is hard to say exactly how much money the iPad brings in precisely, estimates on sales of iPads in 2019 were estimated at $21 billion, and have certainly increased since then (both estimates come from Forbes). IOW, Microsoft likely isn't even doing quite 1/3rd the business the iPad is doing, even with its notable advantages of a) running Windows and b) being positioned as a "hybrid" tablet.

    I think it is fair to say that the direction of future iPads hasn't yet been fully revealed, but clearly the people who actually use them for everyday work (like myself, where it has almost entirely taken over apart from a pair of creative tasks from my MBP) are continuing to be ever happier with the continuing evolution.

    While Kita's post is not without merit, I think the facts speak for themselves. I know many Surface users that enjoy the portability of it very much, but that's almost the sole selling point for them -- they need a "real" PC to do anything much outside Office. Believe me, I've quizzed them about this.

    This is not the sentiment I or most iPad users I have similarly surveyed feel about the iPad. For many consumer-level users, the iPad makes them wonder why on earth they even still have a desktop computer. For iPad Pro users, the thing that comes up again and again in conversations is that the mostly-focused workflow of the iPad actually boosts productivity in everyday tasks, and of course those who use the Apple Pencil wouldn't even consider any other tablet.
    Sales numbers don't tell the whole story.  For example, Lenovo, Dell and HP sell 2x - 3x compared to Apple, and Roku sales numbers are miles ahead of the Apple TV.  Does it means they are better?  Not in all cases.  

    Second, I don't understand why the people you ask need a "real PC" to do anything outside MS Office, considering you can use the Surface Dock (or any USB-C dock) to connect to a larger screen and additional ports.  

    And while I agree that the iPad Pro boost productivity task for some workflows, the same can be said of any device, including the Surface Pro.  
    GeorgeBMac
  • Reply 20 of 26
    I have to disagree with you. I have been using an iPad Pro 12.9” as my sole computer since the original came out in 2015. I am high school teacher and have also just finished my masters. Back in 2015-2016 I would have agreed with you. The transition was difficult with significant changes to my workflow and far too many convoluted hacks just to make it tolerable. But things started to change with iOS 10 in 2016, with the split screen and the ability to make multiple selections. Since then it has only continued to improve. I plan all my lessons; make videos and handouts for all my classes; provided written or voice feedback to student assignments; annotated research papers; and planned, organized, wrote and edited papers. 

    The exactness that people love about the mouse is actually a hindrance. 

    The biggest issue I think that people have with the productivity argument against iPad is screen size. With a mouse you can move effortlessly across two or three wide screen monitors. Each monitor having one or two programs that you want to immediate access to open and ready for that mouse to hover over it; all from the small motions of your worst arm on the desk. 

    So where does that leave iPad and all of its power? My thinking has lead me to recognize that the power of iPad and iPad OS will be the OS that powers Apples push into AR and VR. The hand gestures that I have been trained to do over these past few years will transfer far better to an AR/VR environment than those that rely on a mouse as an input device. This transition will also remove that biggest barrier of screen size when it comes to talk of productivity. Just my two cents. 
    Agree. A pad is what is, and users have to adapt to the form factor. Trying to enforce own old habits upon a different ux and formfactor will never boost productivity. Further, if the user believes he/she gets the best productivity out of a different form factor, the lesser favourite will get less love/usage, with lowered productivity as consequence. 
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