Intel Windows not coming to M1 VMware Fusion, ARM Windows licensing unclear

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Comments

  • Reply 21 of 30
    MacProMacPro Posts: 19,308member
    k2kw said:
    MacPro said:
    Beats said:
    dysamoria said:
    lkrupp said:
    If you need to run Windows then buy a Windows PC.
    Sounds simple to you, doesn’t it? Thing is, I don’t want to have TWO computers to maintain.

    Unfortunately, gaming on Macs is nowhere near the level of gaming on Windows. It used to be that we could have a Mac for both Mac OS and Windows. That was cool. The setup didn’t need to be 100% equal to a Windows PC in performance, just be comparable.

    Sadly, there hasn’t been a suitable desktop Mac in almost a decade (GPU, heat, etc). Now Apple is moving away from Macs even being able to run intel Windows software at all. Result: own two computers again (consoles can bite my shiny metal ass).

    It would be nice if Apple at least sold a standalone display [for an affordable headless workstation-class desktop], so that when I finally can buy a new gaming PC (GPU shortages & pricing are insane), I don’t ALSO need to have TWO displays on my already-crowded desk. Guess I need to find a usable USB KVM switch, soon. Most affordable KVM switches I’ve seen are trash and the well-built ones are rarely happy to work cross-platform & USB.

    I never run Windows on Mac but who are these people running Windows on M1 and claiming it’s 2x faster than on an actual Windows machine?




    People are raving. What am I missing here?
    It is incredibly easy to install Windows 10 ARM on an M1 Mac if you have the new Parallels, it literally talks you through and gives the links you need.  The YouTube Videos are all out of date and complicated because they were using a beta of Parallels.  Now the release version is out it is straightforward and takes a couple of minutes from start to finish.  And yes, Windows on M1 in virtualization is bloody fast and even the X86 emulation in that setup is faster than most PCs.  The Geekbench results speak for themselves.
    I would love to know if it is possible to install windows ARM on the M1 iPadPro.   I would then like to see how the mouse support would work.   I remember reading about on older version of Citric for macOS that somehow had mouse support on the iPAd but never got to play with it.
    It's only doable on the M1 Mac in a VM that supports the MS ARM version, so you'd need Parallels version for the M1 iPad, that said why not? The lines get very blurred when an iPad is running the same SoC as the Mac!
  • Reply 22 of 30
    Hopefully Microsoft will come to their senses but right now they are shooting themselves in the foot with their lack of leadership on ARM support. Currently Windows on ARM is barely supported. It has had very few updates since the beta release of Parallels. This is clearly not a product that Microsoft is fully behind. This is a bet the company moment for Microsoft and they are currently backing the wrong horse. In ten years, the only x86 processors sold will be in legacy systems sold to companies running ancient software that cannot be recompiled for ARM. To make matters worse for Microsoft, you can expect that GPUs will have their own ARM processors for running games unimpeded by the sluggish Windows operating system. Those GPUs will work just as well in an ARM computer as they will in an Intel computer.
    edited May 1
  • Reply 23 of 30
    rcomeaurcomeau Posts: 51member
    I seem to recall in the distant past (PowerPC days), sonnet made an Intel computer on a card solution. I wonder it it is possible (more importantly a big enough market to be worthwhile) to make a PC with a single connection (thunderbolt or USB) so you could have a separate real machine that uses the laptop screen and keyboard (or in a window like a VM, only linked to real hardware).

    Sonnet, are you still around?
  • Reply 24 of 30
    Mike WuertheleMike Wuerthele Posts: 6,152administrator
    rcomeau said:
    I seem to recall in the distant past (PowerPC days), sonnet made an Intel computer on a card solution. I wonder it it is possible (more importantly a big enough market to be worthwhile) to make a PC with a single connection (thunderbolt or USB) so you could have a separate real machine that uses the laptop screen and keyboard (or in a window like a VM, only linked to real hardware).

    Sonnet, are you still around?
    I remember the OrangePC PCI-E one, bit not one from Sonnet.
  • Reply 25 of 30
    MacProMacPro Posts: 19,308member
    Hopefully Microsoft will come to their senses but right now they are shooting themselves in the foot with their lack of leadership on ARM support. Currently Windows on ARM is barely supported. It has had very few updates since the beta release of Parallels. This is clearly not a product that Microsoft is fully behind. This is a bet the company moment for Microsoft and they are currently backing the wrong horse. In ten years, the only x86 processors sold will be in legacy systems sold to companies running ancient software that cannot be recompiled for ARM. To make matters worse for Microsoft, you can expect that GPUs will have their own ARM processors for running games unimpeded by the sluggish Windows operating system. Those GPUs will work just as well in an ARM computer as they will in an Intel computer.
    I am seeing updates almost daily for Windows ARM, in fact, just got a new one now, 21370.1(co_release)
  • Reply 26 of 30
    MacProMacPro Posts: 19,308member
    rcomeau said:
    I seem to recall in the distant past (PowerPC days), sonnet made an Intel computer on a card solution. I wonder it it is possible (more importantly a big enough market to be worthwhile) to make a PC with a single connection (thunderbolt or USB) so you could have a separate real machine that uses the laptop screen and keyboard (or in a window like a VM, only linked to real hardware).

    Sonnet, are you still around?
    I remember the OrangePC PCI-E one, bit not one from Sonnet.
    Heck, you are all so young. Apple ][s had such cards for the then equivalent alternatives OSs. 
    edited May 1
  • Reply 27 of 30
    dewmedewme Posts: 3,612member
    rcomeau said:
    I seem to recall in the distant past (PowerPC days), sonnet made an Intel computer on a card solution. I wonder it it is possible (more importantly a big enough market to be worthwhile) to make a PC with a single connection (thunderbolt or USB) so you could have a separate real machine that uses the laptop screen and keyboard (or in a window like a VM, only linked to real hardware).

    Sonnet, are you still around?

    I'm wondering if you could use an Intel NUC and the Remote Desktop app to achieve much of what you are asking for? The NUC would run Win 10 Pro and host your SolidWorks setup and you would remote into the NUC from the Remote Desktop app on the Mac. It's not a single card solution, but it's not two separate laptops either. The integration is via Ethernet or WiFi. Not sure whether a crossover cable would work. Once the NUC is setup it should run fine headless.
    edited May 1
  • Reply 28 of 30
    kimberlykimberly Posts: 364member
    VMware might just be using 'licensing' as an excuse for other technical issues they are having with Fusion. Why is Parallels not concerned about licensing whereas VMware is so stand-offish? Anyhow, if I dump Fusion and purchase Parallels down the track, then from my reading, I can sign up as an Insider, download / run ARM Windows and the 1 or two apps that I occasionally need to fire up .. is that basically correct?
  • Reply 29 of 30
    dewmedewme Posts: 3,612member
    kimberly said:
    VMware might just be using 'licensing' as an excuse for other technical issues they are having with Fusion. Why is Parallels not concerned about licensing whereas VMware is so stand-offish? Anyhow, if I dump Fusion and purchase Parallels down the track, then from my reading, I can sign up as an Insider, download / run ARM Windows and the 1 or two apps that I occasionally need to fire up .. is that basically correct?
    Who knows? VMware is a fairly big player at the enterprise level, with greater than $12B in revenue and more than 30,000 employees. They’ve weathered some nasty lawsuits in their past and may be more risk adverse when it comes to licensing. Parallels is a subsidiary of Corel with around 800 employees and may be less concerned, but probably more agile and willing to move forward with the state of Windows ARM somewhat in flux.

    Are you referring to any specific technical issue with Fusion? I’ve had nothing but positive results with Fusion since its first release around 2008. In the past year they’ve changed their licensing for the non-pro version to where it is now totally free for non commercial use. Everything I was paying for through yearly OS X/macOS synchronized upgrades is now zero cost for me with no loss of features or functionality. I use it for Windows, Mac, and Linux VMs and it just works. If you have some old 32-bit Mac apps that won’t work on Catalina or Big Sur, VMware is a lifesaver.

    On the Windows side I’ve used VMWare since 2000 very heavily for all aspects of software development, testing, and as a deployment environment for hosting legacy client and server applications that customers still need to run in their enterprise on versions of Windows that Microsoft no longer supports (mostly server versions). Being able to ship a fully configured server machine in the form of a VM (in partnership with VMware for licensing requirements) has solved a lot of backward compatibility and configuration issues versus shipping a software package that the customer has to install on a dedicated physical machine, setup, and integrate with their system.

    Bottom line is that once there is a robust, sustainable, supportable, and fully sanctioned by Microsoft way to get Windows VMs running very well on ARM and sufficient demand exists, I have no doubt that VMware will be totally on it. They have the technical chops without a doubt.
    MacPro
  • Reply 30 of 30
    nicholfdnicholfd Posts: 580member
    k2kw said:
    MacPro said:
    Beats said:
    dysamoria said:
    lkrupp said:
    If you need to run Windows then buy a Windows PC.
    Sounds simple to you, doesn’t it? Thing is, I don’t want to have TWO computers to maintain.

    Unfortunately, gaming on Macs is nowhere near the level of gaming on Windows. It used to be that we could have a Mac for both Mac OS and Windows. That was cool. The setup didn’t need to be 100% equal to a Windows PC in performance, just be comparable.

    Sadly, there hasn’t been a suitable desktop Mac in almost a decade (GPU, heat, etc). Now Apple is moving away from Macs even being able to run intel Windows software at all. Result: own two computers again (consoles can bite my shiny metal ass).

    It would be nice if Apple at least sold a standalone display [for an affordable headless workstation-class desktop], so that when I finally can buy a new gaming PC (GPU shortages & pricing are insane), I don’t ALSO need to have TWO displays on my already-crowded desk. Guess I need to find a usable USB KVM switch, soon. Most affordable KVM switches I’ve seen are trash and the well-built ones are rarely happy to work cross-platform & USB.

    I never run Windows on Mac but who are these people running Windows on M1 and claiming it’s 2x faster than on an actual Windows machine?




    People are raving. What am I missing here?
    It is incredibly easy to install Windows 10 ARM on an M1 Mac if you have the new Parallels, it literally talks you through and gives the links you need.  The YouTube Videos are all out of date and complicated because they were using a beta of Parallels.  Now the release version is out it is straightforward and takes a couple of minutes from start to finish.  And yes, Windows on M1 in virtualization is bloody fast and even the X86 emulation in that setup is faster than most PCs.  The Geekbench results speak for themselves.
    I would love to know if it is possible to install windows ARM on the M1 iPadPro.   I would then like to see how the mouse support would work.   I remember reading about on older version of Citric for macOS that somehow had mouse support on the iPAd but never got to play with it.
    iPadOS has had mouse support for a while.  iPads are not Macs and do not run macOS - no virtualization on iPadOS.
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