Seven Apple suppliers linked to Chinese forced labor programs

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Comments

  • Reply 21 of 29
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    If there is evidence backing up these claims, Apple should simply sack these suppliers. Find alternatives, or be willing to incur the cost.

    Apple should put its values where its -- especially Tim Cook's -- mouth is (unless the company/he thinks it only applies to the US).

    It is distressing to see comments here along the lines of, "BuT wHaT ABoUt OthErs...?" as though there is a moral equivalency argument of some sort to be made. Apple should do the right thing. In any event, that day is inevitably coming, so it's probably a good idea for the company to get in front of it and get out of business relationships like (again, assuming it's true).
    True!
    Although I doubt it's a black and white situation:   Take the U.S. where we require people to work in order to get benefits.   That could also be construed as forced labor.  I suspect this is a situation similar to that.

    In addition, China engages in extensive social engineering.   So that may be part of too -- like requiring a parolee or early release prisoner to hold a job as part of the conditions of their release.

    But, in "reports" it's portrayed as a form of slavery.

  • Reply 22 of 29
    zoetmbzoetmb Posts: 2,652member
    Manufacturing in China is a deal with the devil.   And companies also need to realize that manufacturing in just one location is a highly risky strategy anyway in a world that still experiences wars, pandemics and environmental disasters.    Since most of what's inside a Mac and Apple's other products are mostly just PCBs and so much of the manufacturing is supposedly automated, it's hard for me to believe that Apple could not manufacture somewhere else.   Sure, it would negatively impact their margins unless they raised prices, but Apple has to decide which is more important.    What we don't know is how many hours of labor does it take to manufacture each device.  I suspect it's not very much.    And then, what components are being manufactured in China that couldn't be manufactured somewhere else.  

    There are plenty of products manufactured today in Thailand, Vietnam, India and Mexico.   I think Apple needs to investigate those alternatives.  

    Unfortunately, we're usually not willing to pay the price of manufacturing at home.   I happened to see an ad in a 1955 issue of Life Magazine for a very ordinary chrome coffee pot from GE.    (Let's ignore for the moment the possibility that the process of plating that coffee pot might have been an environmental hazard.)   That coffee pot was $29.95 in 1955.   That's $297 in current inflated dollars.   Who would be willing to pay that today when a full-featured computer driven coffee pot can be had for $100 or less. 
    anantksundaram
  • Reply 23 of 29
    anantksundaramanantksundaram Posts: 20,398member
    If there is evidence backing up these claims, Apple should simply sack these suppliers. Find alternatives, or be willing to incur the cost.

    Apple should put its values where its -- especially Tim Cook's -- mouth is (unless the company/he thinks it only applies to the US).

    It is distressing to see comments here along the lines of, "BuT wHaT ABoUt OthErs...?" as though there is a moral equivalency argument of some sort to be made. Apple should do the right thing. In any event, that day is inevitably coming, so it's probably a good idea for the company to get in front of it and get out of business relationships like (again, assuming it's true).
    True!
    Although I doubt it's a black and white situation:   Take the U.S. where we require people to work in order to get benefits.   That could also be construed as forced labor.  I suspect this is a situation similar to that.

    In addition, China engages in extensive social engineering.   So that may be part of too -- like requiring a parolee or early release prisoner to hold a job as part of the conditions of their release.

    But, in "reports" it's portrayed as a form of slavery.

    On the topic of creating an inexplicable moral equivalence: this post takes the cake. 
    CloudTalkingatorguytmay
  • Reply 24 of 29
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    If there is evidence backing up these claims, Apple should simply sack these suppliers. Find alternatives, or be willing to incur the cost.

    Apple should put its values where its -- especially Tim Cook's -- mouth is (unless the company/he thinks it only applies to the US).

    It is distressing to see comments here along the lines of, "BuT wHaT ABoUt OthErs...?" as though there is a moral equivalency argument of some sort to be made. Apple should do the right thing. In any event, that day is inevitably coming, so it's probably a good idea for the company to get in front of it and get out of business relationships like (again, assuming it's true).
    True!
    Although I doubt it's a black and white situation:   Take the U.S. where we require people to work in order to get benefits.   That could also be construed as forced labor.  I suspect this is a situation similar to that.

    In addition, China engages in extensive social engineering.   So that may be part of too -- like requiring a parolee or early release prisoner to hold a job as part of the conditions of their release.

    But, in "reports" it's portrayed as a form of slavery.

    On the topic of creating an inexplicable moral equivalence: this post takes the cake. 

    Only if you believe the unconfirmed "reports" coming from the China haters.   But, a more nuanced story, closer to the "forced labor" of the U.S., would be more consistent with reality.


  • Reply 25 of 29
    hexclockhexclock Posts: 1,232member
    If there is evidence backing up these claims, Apple should simply sack these suppliers. Find alternatives, or be willing to incur the cost.

    Apple should put its values where its -- especially Tim Cook's -- mouth is (unless the company/he thinks it only applies to the US).

    It is distressing to see comments here along the lines of, "BuT wHaT ABoUt OthErs...?" as though there is a moral equivalency argument of some sort to be made. Apple should do the right thing. In any event, that day is inevitably coming, so it's probably a good idea for the company to get in front of it and get out of business relationships like (again, assuming it's true).
    True!
    Although I doubt it's a black and white situation:   Take the U.S. where we require people to work in order to get benefits.   That could also be construed as forced labor.  I suspect this is a situation similar to that.

    In addition, China engages in extensive social engineering.   So that may be part of too -- like requiring a parolee or early release prisoner to hold a job as part of the conditions of their release.

    But, in "reports" it's portrayed as a form of slavery.

    On the topic of creating an inexplicable moral equivalence: this post takes the cake. 

    Only if you believe the unconfirmed "reports" coming from the China haters.   But, a more nuanced story, closer to the "forced labor" of the U.S., would be more consistent with reality.


    So why is China trying to convince UN members to boycott an upcoming summit of Great Britain, Germany, and the United States regarding the Uighur situation? If they are doing nothing wrong, what’s to hide?
    lkrupptmayanantksundaram
  • Reply 26 of 29
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    hexclock said:
    If there is evidence backing up these claims, Apple should simply sack these suppliers. Find alternatives, or be willing to incur the cost.

    Apple should put its values where its -- especially Tim Cook's -- mouth is (unless the company/he thinks it only applies to the US).

    It is distressing to see comments here along the lines of, "BuT wHaT ABoUt OthErs...?" as though there is a moral equivalency argument of some sort to be made. Apple should do the right thing. In any event, that day is inevitably coming, so it's probably a good idea for the company to get in front of it and get out of business relationships like (again, assuming it's true).
    True!
    Although I doubt it's a black and white situation:   Take the U.S. where we require people to work in order to get benefits.   That could also be construed as forced labor.  I suspect this is a situation similar to that.

    In addition, China engages in extensive social engineering.   So that may be part of too -- like requiring a parolee or early release prisoner to hold a job as part of the conditions of their release.

    But, in "reports" it's portrayed as a form of slavery.

    On the topic of creating an inexplicable moral equivalence: this post takes the cake. 

    Only if you believe the unconfirmed "reports" coming from the China haters.   But, a more nuanced story, closer to the "forced labor" of the U.S., would be more consistent with reality.


    So why is China trying to convince UN members to boycott an upcoming summit of Great Britain, Germany, and the United States regarding the Uighur situation? If they are doing nothing wrong, what’s to hide?

    Because it is political theater.   "But the emails!:" -- let's have another investigation!
  • Reply 27 of 29
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 24,088member
    hexclock said:
    If there is evidence backing up these claims, Apple should simply sack these suppliers. Find alternatives, or be willing to incur the cost.

    Apple should put its values where its -- especially Tim Cook's -- mouth is (unless the company/he thinks it only applies to the US).

    It is distressing to see comments here along the lines of, "BuT wHaT ABoUt OthErs...?" as though there is a moral equivalency argument of some sort to be made. Apple should do the right thing. In any event, that day is inevitably coming, so it's probably a good idea for the company to get in front of it and get out of business relationships like (again, assuming it's true).
    True!
    Although I doubt it's a black and white situation:   Take the U.S. where we require people to work in order to get benefits.   That could also be construed as forced labor.  I suspect this is a situation similar to that.

    In addition, China engages in extensive social engineering.   So that may be part of too -- like requiring a parolee or early release prisoner to hold a job as part of the conditions of their release.

    But, in "reports" it's portrayed as a form of slavery.

    On the topic of creating an inexplicable moral equivalence: this post takes the cake. 

    Only if you believe the unconfirmed "reports" coming from the China haters.   But, a more nuanced story, closer to the "forced labor" of the U.S., would be more consistent with reality.


    So why is China trying to convince UN members to boycott an upcoming summit of Great Britain, Germany, and the United States regarding the Uighur situation? If they are doing nothing wrong, what’s to hide?

    Because it is political theater.   "But the emails!:" -- let's have another investigation!
    Hey, you voted for these guys, strongly promoting them saying they'd bring back government with common-sense. Let them at least have some input and offer proof of what they claim before you deciding "the new guy" is no different from "the old guy". There may be a whole lot of truth to the China forced labor claims that you seem unwilling to even entertain if you can re-start with an open mind.
    muthuk_vanalingamanantksundaram
  • Reply 28 of 29
    crowleycrowley Posts: 10,453member
    Jfc                
  • Reply 29 of 29
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    gatorguy said:
    hexclock said:
    If there is evidence backing up these claims, Apple should simply sack these suppliers. Find alternatives, or be willing to incur the cost.

    Apple should put its values where its -- especially Tim Cook's -- mouth is (unless the company/he thinks it only applies to the US).

    It is distressing to see comments here along the lines of, "BuT wHaT ABoUt OthErs...?" as though there is a moral equivalency argument of some sort to be made. Apple should do the right thing. In any event, that day is inevitably coming, so it's probably a good idea for the company to get in front of it and get out of business relationships like (again, assuming it's true).
    True!
    Although I doubt it's a black and white situation:   Take the U.S. where we require people to work in order to get benefits.   That could also be construed as forced labor.  I suspect this is a situation similar to that.

    In addition, China engages in extensive social engineering.   So that may be part of too -- like requiring a parolee or early release prisoner to hold a job as part of the conditions of their release.

    But, in "reports" it's portrayed as a form of slavery.

    On the topic of creating an inexplicable moral equivalence: this post takes the cake. 

    Only if you believe the unconfirmed "reports" coming from the China haters.   But, a more nuanced story, closer to the "forced labor" of the U.S., would be more consistent with reality.


    So why is China trying to convince UN members to boycott an upcoming summit of Great Britain, Germany, and the United States regarding the Uighur situation? If they are doing nothing wrong, what’s to hide?

    Because it is political theater.   "But the emails!:" -- let's have another investigation!
    Hey, you voted for these guys, strongly promoting them saying they'd bring back government with common-sense. Let them at least have some input and offer proof of what they claim before you deciding "the new guy" is no different from "the old guy". There may be a whole lot of truth to the China forced labor claims that you seem unwilling to even entertain if you can re-start with an open mind.

    Yes, there might be truth in it.    But so far it sounds more like a smear campaign than reality to me.   If I see anything that contradicts that I'll change my mind.  But "reports" or "people are saying" just doesn't cut it for me -- especially knowing that for the past 4 years lies and smear campaigns have been an integral part of U.S. policy.

    As for Biden being the same as Trump.   No, while Biden still sees China as a threat, he has shifted the needle from Trump:  Instead of a cold war style  "National Security threat" he sees them as a competitive threat -- and that is both a subtle difference and a major one at the same time.

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