EU planning second try at uniform digital wallet for ID, payments

Posted:
in General Discussion edited June 2
The European Union is working on a new standard of digital identification to give citizens of all 27 countries access to public and private services under a single online ID.




The European Union-wide app would be accessed via biometric scans, such as retina, facial recognition, or fingerprint scans. It would allow users to securely store payment information, such as bank cards and credit cards, and official documents like passports and drivers' licenses.

According to the Financial Times, the use of the wallet won't be mandated at the time of introduction. Still, those who choose to use it would benefit from the added layers of convenience and security.

In order to avoid any cross-transfer of sensitive data, the EU officials will enforce a structural separation designed to prevent companies from accessing user data. This would prevent companies from being able to utilize a user's data for marketing purposes.

Currently, officials are meeting to discuss guidelines and standards for the rollout of the digital wallet, which they hope to have fully functional in roughly a year.

As of now, only 19 countries have begun roll-outs for digital IDs, and not all IDs are compatible with each other. Countries involved will need to agree on how to implement the system -- and the lack of agreement is what scuttled the previous "standard."

Apple also has been planning ways to replace passports, driver's licenses, and other physical forms of identification. Patents have shown that Apple has been looking for ways to provide verified claims of user identity.

Apple has suggested there could be multiple ways of presenting an ID on request. For example: in the future, a user may be able to show a driver's license on the screen of their iPhone while their phone is in a locked state. Patents have also shown plans for potential RFID, NFC, Bluetooth, or Wi-Fi Aware methods for transmitting identity-verifying information.

Follow all the details of WWDC 2021 with the comprehensive AppleInsider coverage of the whole week-long event from June 7 through June 11, including details of all the new launches and updates.

Stay on top of all Apple news right from your HomePod. Say, "Hey, Siri, play AppleInsider," and you'll get latest AppleInsider Podcast. Or ask your HomePod mini for "AppleInsider Daily" instead and you'll hear a fast update direct from our news team. And, if you're interested in Apple-centric home automation, say "Hey, Siri, play HomeKit Insider," and you'll be listening to our newest specialized podcast in moments.
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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 23
    red oakred oak Posts: 901member
    LoL 

    The EU has become a bunch of lifetime bureaucrats trying to legislate and birth
    technology

    That is not how it works 
    edited June 1 watto_cobra
  • Reply 2 of 23
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 5,956member
    red oak said:
    LoL 

    The EU has become a bunch of lifetime bureaucrats trying to legislate and birth
    technology

    That is not how it works 
    That's how it should work - and does work.

    Electronic IDs and passports, digital certificates etc already exist across the EU. 

    I can update the the digital certificates on my ID Card using just my biometrics. I can obtain my digital 'signature' from government for use online etc. 

    These technologies already exist but they are not harmonised across the EU.

    Logically they will be improved upon and integrated but issues that only governments can decide on have to be tackled (and are being tackled). Privacy, security, legislation, enforcement...

    The EU is perfectly able to 'birth' technology and has been doing it for decades. It normally does it in conjunction with partners.

    Here's a recent example :

    https://www.european-processor-initiative.eu/project/epi/
    edited June 1 mknelsonmuthuk_vanalingamcaladanianmacnngc_ukIreneW
  • Reply 3 of 23
    22july201322july2013 Posts: 2,656member
    We already have photos and signatures used in passports, which are a form of biometrics. But I'm worried about other biometrics being used for passports. Retinal scans might not be so bad because nobody can scan your retina without your permission. But fingerprints are another matter. I wouldn't want people I do business with to see my fingerprint. I (physically) leave my actual fingerprint behind wherever I (physically) go, which is very different from a retinal scan, since I do not leave a copy of my retina lying around when I walk through a building. Would EU citizens get to choose which biometric they can put into their digital ID? And how many nations would have access to the biometric database which the EU would set up? This could be a privacy nightmare.

    I'm not an opponent of digital IDs. I think they are great. I have built more than one digital ID computer system for big clients. But the policy is important to understand. A digital ID policy statement tends to be about 100 pages long (and it's harder to write when it requires international agreements.) Has the EU even drafted their policy yet, or are they just winging it? The link that AppleInsider provided is not accessible because it's behind a paywall.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 4 of 23
    crowleycrowley Posts: 9,097member
    red oak said:
    LoL 

    The EU has become a bunch of lifetime bureaucrats trying to legislate and birth
    technology

    That is not how it works 
    Governments have shaped and created standards since forever.  This is exactly how it works.
    wonkothesanemuthuk_vanalingamgc_uk
  • Reply 5 of 23
    entropysentropys Posts: 3,198member
    I guess the real issue here is if ordinary citizens of these 27 countries want their identity information controlled by Brussels instead of more directly accountable politicians and bureaucrats.  

    I would not. And I doubt the citizens in those countries will get any say at all on the matter.


    The EU is perfectly able to 'birth' technology and has been doing it for decades. It normally does it in conjunction with partners.
    Here's a recent example :
    https://www.european-processor-initiative.eu/project/epi/

    They aren’t “birthing” anything new here, they are just building out a universal tracking system of its member states’ citizens.

    but yes, in the case mentioned it totally makes sense for the EU taxpayer to fund a processor. Not. It isn’t as though there wasn't already a myriad of processors out there, but hey let’s do our own using Other Peoples’ Money. And do a cosy deal with our corporate mates so the Eurocrats can get a sweet job on early retirement, and everyone gets rich except the proles that actually paid for it in the first place. The only difference between 1930s Italy and the close coupling of government and corporate in the EU is a kinder face and an absence of snazzy uniforms.  

    The end result will still be a boot stamping on a human face, forever.


    According to the Financial Times, the use of the wallet won't be mandated at the time of introduction. Still, those who choose to use it would benefit from the added layers of convenience and security. 
    I wonder if the person interviewed and the journalist both laughed after that was said. A smug, insider laugh.

    In order to avoid any cross-transfer of sensitive data, the EU officials will enforce a structural separation designed to prevent companies from accessing user data. This would prevent companies from being able to utilize a user's data for marketing purposes. 

    Bwwahgahhahhha! Oh my aching sides. The only way to stop this would be to not allow corporations any access in the first place. But of course, that isn’t what they want.  

    edited June 1 Dogpersonwatto_cobra
  • Reply 6 of 23
    red oakred oak Posts: 901member
    avon b7 said:
    red oak said:
    LoL 

    The EU has become a bunch of lifetime bureaucrats trying to legislate and birth
    technology

    That is not how it works 
    That's how it should work - and does work.

    Electronic IDs and passports, digital certificates etc already exist across the EU. 

    I can update the the digital certificates on my ID Card using just my biometrics. I can obtain my digital 'signature' from government for use online etc. 

    These technologies already exist but they are not harmonised across the EU.

    Logically they will be improved upon and integrated but issues that only governments can decide on have to be tackled (and are being tackled). Privacy, security, legislation, enforcement...

    The EU is perfectly able to 'birth' technology and has been doing it for decades. It normally does it in conjunction with partners.

    Here's a recent example :

    https://www.european-processor-initiative.eu/project/epi/

    Name your Top 3 EU tech companies today 
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 7 of 23
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 5,956member
    red oak said:
    avon b7 said:
    red oak said:
    LoL 

    The EU has become a bunch of lifetime bureaucrats trying to legislate and birth
    technology

    That is not how it works 
    That's how it should work - and does work.

    Electronic IDs and passports, digital certificates etc already exist across the EU. 

    I can update the the digital certificates on my ID Card using just my biometrics. I can obtain my digital 'signature' from government for use online etc. 

    These technologies already exist but they are not harmonised across the EU.

    Logically they will be improved upon and integrated but issues that only governments can decide on have to be tackled (and are being tackled). Privacy, security, legislation, enforcement...

    The EU is perfectly able to 'birth' technology and has been doing it for decades. It normally does it in conjunction with partners.

    Here's a recent example :

    https://www.european-processor-initiative.eu/project/epi/

    Name your Top 3 EU tech companies today 
    What metrics do you want? Importance, size, unicorns...?

    And define 'tech' ? 

    How 'tech' is ASML for you? 
    edited June 1 spheric
  • Reply 8 of 23
    I thought it hilarious that a UK passport was used. Admittedly an old EU one, but still.....

    Has no-one heard of Brexit?

    P.S. Not a fan of Brexit myself.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 9 of 23
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 5,956member
    I thought it hilarious that a UK passport was used. Admittedly an old EU one, but still.....

    Has no-one heard of Brexit?

    P.S. Not a fan of Brexit myself.
    My passport got renewed post referendum but prior to the official exit and the buggers kept the EU format but didn't keep the words European Union.

    I was not a happy camper. 
  • Reply 10 of 23
    basjhjbasjhj Posts: 93member
    red oak said:
    avon b7 said:
    red oak said:
    LoL 

    The EU has become a bunch of lifetime bureaucrats trying to legislate and birth
    technology

    That is not how it works 
    That's how it should work - and does work.

    Electronic IDs and passports, digital certificates etc already exist across the EU. 

    I can update the the digital certificates on my ID Card using just my biometrics. I can obtain my digital 'signature' from government for use online etc. 

    These technologies already exist but they are not harmonised across the EU.

    Logically they will be improved upon and integrated but issues that only governments can decide on have to be tackled (and are being tackled). Privacy, security, legislation, enforcement...

    The EU is perfectly able to 'birth' technology and has been doing it for decades. It normally does it in conjunction with partners.

    Here's a recent example :

    https://www.european-processor-initiative.eu/project/epi/

    Name your Top 3 EU tech companies today 
    This is easy.

    1. ASML (without it, no Apple Silicon!)
    2 and 3: take your pick of Siemens, Bosch, Airbus, Ericsson, Nokia, Atos, Philips, Lightyear, Thales

    I am sure there are more, but this should suffice for now.
    muthuk_vanalingamspheric
  • Reply 11 of 23
    crowleycrowley Posts: 9,097member
    avon b7 said:
    I thought it hilarious that a UK passport was used. Admittedly an old EU one, but still.....

    Has no-one heard of Brexit?

    P.S. Not a fan of Brexit myself.
    My passport got renewed post referendum but prior to the official exit and the buggers kept the EU format but didn't keep the words European Union.

    I was not a happy camper. 
    I find this a very strange thing for a person to care about.
  • Reply 12 of 23
    macnnmacnn Posts: 2member
    entropys said:
    I guess the real issue here is if ordinary citizens of these 27 countries want their identity information controlled by Brussels instead of more directly accountable politicians and bureaucrats.  

    I would not. And I doubt the citizens in those countries will get any say at all on the matter.

    Well, I am one of these European citizens and I am originally from a small European country which never managed to implement good functional technology. Quite the opposite. And to this date this country mostly uses its own crappy solutions, which means that everyday tasks like logging into my national bank account or government service portal, are very unstable, takes forever if they don't log out with a timeout, requires me to always carry around my physical passcode token and doesn't work at all about 25% of the times, so I need to try to log in several times to get in and use the services :-/ Isn't this just ridicules in 2021?

    So yes, I am very much in favour of these advanced, secure and user friendly Pan-European standards which makes life better and easier for all of us. Thank you, EU! =)
    edited June 2 spheric
  • Reply 13 of 23
    maccamacca Posts: 22member
    I thought it hilarious that a UK passport was used. Admittedly an old EU one, but still.....

    Has no-one heard of Brexit?

    P.S. Not a fan of Brexit myself.
    I’m surprised that you didn’t point out the U.S.A. passport? That’s more strange since the U.K. is in Europe and U.S.A. is not. 

    At least with Brexit the people of the U.K. can decide for themselves and if they don’t like it they can hold the mps accountable. Something we couldn’t do with meps. 
  • Reply 14 of 23
    22july201322july2013 Posts: 2,656member
    entropys said:
    In order to avoid any cross-transfer of sensitive data, the EU officials will enforce a structural separation designed to prevent companies from accessing user data. This would prevent companies from being able to utilize a user's data for marketing purposes. 

    Bwwahgahhahhha! Oh my aching sides. The only way to stop this would be to not allow corporations any access in the first place. But of course, that isn’t what they want. 

    Someone should do a survey of people who have had their identities stolen and see what percentage of them are now in the Apple ecosystem after having had their identity stolen. Probably a much greater percentage than the general population - but even if not, I'd still love to know that.

    It is my opinion that Apple is twice the size it would have been had Apple not cared so much about user privacy issues. Most people don't understand privacy but they believe Apple does, so they choose Apple. I'm glad to see in your post that you care about privacy.

    Hmm, I think anyone who uses FaceBook or Google is already, ipso facto, a victim of identity theft.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 15 of 23
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 5,956member
    crowley said:
    avon b7 said:
    I thought it hilarious that a UK passport was used. Admittedly an old EU one, but still.....

    Has no-one heard of Brexit?

    P.S. Not a fan of Brexit myself.
    My passport got renewed post referendum but prior to the official exit and the buggers kept the EU format but didn't keep the words European Union.

    I was not a happy camper. 
    I find this a very strange thing for a person to care about.
    Pet peeve which pisses me off enormously.

    Brexit changed my life for the worse. Massive changes all of us impacted by it. For many, on an existential level. I'm fortunate in that I can change my citizenship easily. Others aren't so lucky. 

    Many of the people who were most impacted by it were not even allowed to vote in the referendum. Myself included. Had those people been allowed to vote, it could have swung the result.

    Receiving an EU format passport but without the European Union header, with me still technically being within the EU, was simply one more example of overzealous British Brexit blindness. 




    spheric
  • Reply 16 of 23
    22july201322july2013 Posts: 2,656member
    avon b7 said:
    crowley said:
    avon b7 said:
    I thought it hilarious that a UK passport was used. Admittedly an old EU one, but still.....

    Has no-one heard of Brexit?

    P.S. Not a fan of Brexit myself.
    My passport got renewed post referendum but prior to the official exit and the buggers kept the EU format but didn't keep the words European Union.

    I was not a happy camper. 
    I find this a very strange thing for a person to care about.
    Pet peeve which pisses me off enormously.
    Brexit changed my life for the worse. Massive changes all of us impacted by it. For many, on an existential level. I'm fortunate in that I can change my citizenship easily. Others aren't so lucky. Many of the people who were most impacted by it were not even allowed to vote in the referendum. Myself included. Had those people been allowed to vote, it could have swung the result.
    Receiving an EU format passport but without the European Union header, with me still technically being within the EU, was simply one more example of overzealous British Brexit blindness. 
    Are you willing to say what your citizenship(s) is/are? Did you live in the UK when the vote occurred? Were you over 18? Do you have dual citizenship? How are you able to change to a new citizenship that you didn't previously have? Did you change it? Who did you think should be able to vote that didn't? I can't think of a single person who should have been able to vote that didn't. Were you thinking that people under 18 should have voted? Why do you think it wasn't a fair referendum? Please explain. I'll listen.

    I'm not saying you shouldn't be angry/irate/indignant/incensed/livid/irascible/choleric, as you are now, I'm just trying to understand why you feel that way. You left a lot of important details out of your explanation.
  • Reply 17 of 23
    crowleycrowley Posts: 9,097member
    avon b7 said:
    crowley said:
    avon b7 said:
    I thought it hilarious that a UK passport was used. Admittedly an old EU one, but still.....

    Has no-one heard of Brexit?

    P.S. Not a fan of Brexit myself.
    My passport got renewed post referendum but prior to the official exit and the buggers kept the EU format but didn't keep the words European Union.

    I was not a happy camper. 
    I find this a very strange thing for a person to care about.
    Pet peeve which pisses me off enormously.

    Brexit changed my life for the worse. Massive changes all of us impacted by it. For many, on an existential level. I'm fortunate in that I can change my citizenship easily. Others aren't so lucky. 

    Many of the people who were most impacted by it were not even allowed to vote in the referendum. Myself included. Had those people been allowed to vote, it could have swung the result.

    Receiving an EU format passport but without the European Union header, with me still technically being within the EU, was simply one more example of overzealous British Brexit blindness. 
    Fair enough. I share a lot of your feeling towards Brexit, though the words on a passport seem to be a fairly trivial thing to let get under your skin, all things considered.
    muthuk_vanalingamspheric
  • Reply 18 of 23
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 5,956member
    avon b7 said:
    crowley said:
    avon b7 said:
    I thought it hilarious that a UK passport was used. Admittedly an old EU one, but still.....

    Has no-one heard of Brexit?

    P.S. Not a fan of Brexit myself.
    My passport got renewed post referendum but prior to the official exit and the buggers kept the EU format but didn't keep the words European Union.

    I was not a happy camper. 
    I find this a very strange thing for a person to care about.
    Pet peeve which pisses me off enormously.
    Brexit changed my life for the worse. Massive changes all of us impacted by it. For many, on an existential level. I'm fortunate in that I can change my citizenship easily. Others aren't so lucky. Many of the people who were most impacted by it were not even allowed to vote in the referendum. Myself included. Had those people been allowed to vote, it could have swung the result.
    Receiving an EU format passport but without the European Union header, with me still technically being within the EU, was simply one more example of overzealous British Brexit blindness. 
    Are you willing to say what your citizenship(s) is/are? Did you live in the UK when the vote occurred? Were you over 18? Do you have dual citizenship? How are you able to change to a new citizenship that you didn't previously have? Did you change it? Who did you think should be able to vote that didn't? I can't think of a single person who should have been able to vote that didn't. Were you thinking that people under 18 should have voted? Why do you think it wasn't a fair referendum? Please explain. I'll listen.

    I'm not saying you shouldn't be angry/irate/indignant/incensed/livid/irascible/choleric, as you are now, I'm just trying to understand why you feel that way. You left a lot of important details out of your explanation.
    I'm English (UK and ex-EU citizen), well over 18, ex-civil servant, permanently resident in Spain and with all my data fully up-to-date at the nearest British Consulate.

    Fully legal in the EU and the UK. 

    I never voted in UK general elections while living abroad as I had no on-the-ground day-to-day experience of what it was like living there. That was a personal decision taken so as not to 'interfere' in a situation which for the most part I wasn't being affected by. 

    It didn't make me not British though. I have put my life on the line working for the UK government in efforts against organised crime. 

    So, along came an ill thought out, ill planned and even worse executed referendum that would have potentially devasting effects on EU citizens living in the UK and UK residents living within the EU, and a huge swathe of 'voters' with legitimate voting interests were denied their right to vote due to prior legislation that was aimed at election voting. Denied a vote in the single most important voting event in literally decades. 

    The EU has cross pollinated relationships of all kinds for the entire lives of some people. Freedom of movement promoted today's reality. 

    IMO, it was criminal that the UK government got away with it and that opposition parties basically did nothing about it either. 

    The very people who were going to suffer the most and the longest were simply cut off from the decision making process.

    To make matters worse, if ever there was a legitimate reason for younger voters to participate, Brexit was it. They were refused a voice too. 

    What came later, the illegal activity during the campaigning, the lies and distortion was just the icing on a very rancid cake. 


    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/apr/28/british-expats-lose-legal-battle-right-to-vote-eu-referendum

    Dual nationality (the last time I investigated) was very difficult to get. 

    muthuk_vanalingamspheric
  • Reply 19 of 23
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 5,956member
    crowley said:
    avon b7 said:
    crowley said:
    avon b7 said:
    I thought it hilarious that a UK passport was used. Admittedly an old EU one, but still.....

    Has no-one heard of Brexit?

    P.S. Not a fan of Brexit myself.
    My passport got renewed post referendum but prior to the official exit and the buggers kept the EU format but didn't keep the words European Union.

    I was not a happy camper. 
    I find this a very strange thing for a person to care about.
    Pet peeve which pisses me off enormously.

    Brexit changed my life for the worse. Massive changes all of us impacted by it. For many, on an existential level. I'm fortunate in that I can change my citizenship easily. Others aren't so lucky. 

    Many of the people who were most impacted by it were not even allowed to vote in the referendum. Myself included. Had those people been allowed to vote, it could have swung the result.

    Receiving an EU format passport but without the European Union header, with me still technically being within the EU, was simply one more example of overzealous British Brexit blindness. 
    Fair enough. I share a lot of your feeling towards Brexit, though the words on a passport seem to be a fairly trivial thing to let get under your skin, all things considered.
    Yes. Definitely. But sometimes little things can be irritating and every time I use the damn thing, I'm reminded of it. 


  • Reply 20 of 23
    22july201322july2013 Posts: 2,656member
    avon b7 said:
    avon b7 said:
    crowley said:
    avon b7 said:
    I thought it hilarious that a UK passport was used. Admittedly an old EU one, but still.....

    Has no-one heard of Brexit?

    P.S. Not a fan of Brexit myself.
    My passport got renewed post referendum but prior to the official exit and the buggers kept the EU format but didn't keep the words European Union.

    I was not a happy camper. 
    I find this a very strange thing for a person to care about.
    Pet peeve which pisses me off enormously.
    Brexit changed my life for the worse. Massive changes all of us impacted by it. For many, on an existential level. I'm fortunate in that I can change my citizenship easily. Others aren't so lucky. Many of the people who were most impacted by it were not even allowed to vote in the referendum. Myself included. Had those people been allowed to vote, it could have swung the result.
    Receiving an EU format passport but without the European Union header, with me still technically being within the EU, was simply one more example of overzealous British Brexit blindness. 
    Are you willing to say what your citizenship(s) is/are? Did you live in the UK when the vote occurred? Were you over 18? Do you have dual citizenship? How are you able to change to a new citizenship that you didn't previously have? Did you change it? Who did you think should be able to vote that didn't? I can't think of a single person who should have been able to vote that didn't. Were you thinking that people under 18 should have voted? Why do you think it wasn't a fair referendum? Please explain. I'll listen.

    I'm not saying you shouldn't be angry/irate/indignant/incensed/livid/irascible/choleric, as you are now, I'm just trying to understand why you feel that way. You left a lot of important details out of your explanation.
    I'm English (UK and ex-EU citizen), well over 18, ex-civil servant, permanently resident in Spain and with all my data fully up-to-date at the nearest British Consulate.

    Fully legal in the EU and the UK. 

    I never voted in UK general elections while living abroad as I had no on-the-ground day-to-day experience of what it was like living there. That was a personal decision taken so as not to 'interfere' in a situation which for the most part I wasn't being affected by. 

    It didn't make me not British though. I have put my life on the line working for the UK government in efforts against organised crime. 

    So, along came an ill thought out, ill planned and even worse executed referendum that would have potentially devasting effects on EU citizens living in the UK and UK residents living within the EU, and a huge swathe of 'voters' with legitimate voting interests were denied their right to vote due to prior legislation that was aimed at election voting. Denied a vote in the single most important voting event in literally decades. 

    The EU has cross pollinated relationships of all kinds for the entire lives of some people. Freedom of movement promoted today's reality. 

    IMO, it was criminal that the UK government got away with it and that opposition parties basically did nothing about it either. 

    The very people who were going to suffer the most and the longest were simply cut off from the decision making process.

    To make matters worse, if ever there was a legitimate reason for younger voters to participate, Brexit was it. They were refused a voice too. 

    What came later, the illegal activity during the campaigning, the lies and distortion was just the icing on a very rancid cake. 


    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/apr/28/british-expats-lose-legal-battle-right-to-vote-eu-referendum

    Dual nationality (the last time I investigated) was very difficult to get. 

    I know three people with dual citizenship, so it can't be that hard to get. There must be millions like that if I personally know three of them. Also, you must be extremely happy that the 15 year limit was abolished in March 2021, making your concerns merely of historical noteworthiness.

    I can be partly sympathetic to the idea that ex-pats should be able to vote, but I'm not entirely in agreement. In my country, people get free health care, (but we pay through the nose through taxes for it) so there are lots of ex-pats who live permanently overseas (and pay no taxes to us from overseas) and come back to my country whenever they need health care.  That doesn't feel right. They are getting something for nothing. If you can vote in a country that you never live in, and never will return to, and don't pay taxes to, that also feels like you are getting something for nothing. So I'm not really convinced by your arguments.

    What the UK govt did certainly wasn't criminal. The highest court examined what they did and said it was legal. I can see you are putting a lot of spin into your views.
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