Apple users, developers seek class status in App Store antitrust claims

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in General Discussion edited June 2021
Apple users and developers are seeking separate class status for a number of antitrust claims accusing the Cupertino company of a monopoly on the App Store.

Credit: Apple
Credit: Apple


The developers and consumers filed a motion on Tuesday asking the U.S. District Court for the Northern District of California to certify separate classes in several cases that are before Judge Yvonne Gonzalez Rogers.

Notably, Judge Gonzalez Rogers recently presided over the Epic Games v. Apple bench trial in May. The motion on Tuesday, in fact, references the trial several times -- including one exchange between Apple CEO Tim Cook and the judge.

During that exchange, Judge Gonzalez Rogers grilled Cook on a number of issues. In a line of questioning, she used Apple's 30% commission as an example of why the Cupertino tech giant doesn't face actual competition.

"As to Apple's default 30% commission, the court put it succinctly: [T]he 30 percent number has been there since the inception ... [a]nd if there was real competition, that number would move, and it hasn't," the developers' motion reads.

The motion argues that smaller developers who have levied claims against Apple don't have the resources necessary to fight "the largest publicly traded company in the world." Large developers like Epic Games, it contends, are an exception.

It isn't clear how many class members are included in the motion, which is redacted in many parts. The motion does argue that Apple imposes anticompetitive restrictions on all of them, however.

The consumer antitrust case against Apple is back in the district court circuit after the U.S. Supreme Court had ruled in 2019 that users can sue Apple for alleged App Store overcharging. Notably, Judge Gonzalez Rogers had initially dismissed the case in 2013, stating that consumers are actually indirect purchasers.

In the Tuesday motion, consumers cited the Supreme Court ruling, quoting a passage characterizing their claims against Apple as "classic antitrust."

As in the Epic Games v. Apple battle, the motion also alleges that Apple places anticompetitive restrictions on app distribution and in-app payment methods. It also attacks Apple's anti-steering guidelines, which bar apps from advertising cheaper prices outside of the App Store.

The motion claims that Apple's "unlawful and anticompetitive exclusivity scheme has generated enormous supra-competitive profits for Apple."

During its trial with Epic Games, and even before the case, Apple has pushed back on allegations that it enjoys a monopoly. It claims that it isn't dominant in any market it competes in. Apple also maintains that its fees are needed to support its platforms.

The developer class certification would include all U.S. app makers who sold apps with a price tag on the App Store on or after June 4, 2015. The consumer class would include anyone in the U.S. who bought an iOS app or paid for an in-app purchase since July 10, 2008.

Class action certification for users & developers against Apple.pdf by Mike Wuerthele on Scribd

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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 22
    j2fusionj2fusion Posts: 153member
    Let’s kill the goose that laid the golden egg. There would be no App Store if Apple didn’t maintain such tight control. The Wild West would have taken over and people would have given upon purchasing apps long ago if they couldn’t be sure it was safe. The only reason Google Play exists is because of the success of the App Store.  
    KTRigorskyjas99DAalsethmcdaveScot1baconstangjony0Dogpersonwatto_cobra
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  • Reply 2 of 22
    xyzzy-xxxxyzzy-xxx Posts: 222member
    Users should have the choice to buy from Apple's App Store or another App Store. Other App Stores could be added to the platform (with support from Apple) without sacrificing the security of the platform (the security model of iOS could stay intact). Of course Apple's app review would be replaced by a third party app review (other rules within the law). There also would be many identical apps available from several App Stores (maybe with different pricing).
     0Likes 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 3 of 22
    DAalsethdaalseth Posts: 3,297member
    j2fusion said:
    Let’s kill the goose that laid the golden egg. There would be no App Store if Apple didn’t maintain such tight control. The Wild West would have taken over and people would have given upon purchasing apps long ago if they couldn’t be sure it was safe. The only reason Google Play exists is because of the success of the App Store.  
    I was about to say exactly the same thing. They are playing with fire and could very well get burned by their own actions. The very definition of pyrrhic victory. 
    jony0esquaredDogpersonwatto_cobra
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  • Reply 4 of 22
    chadbagchadbag Posts: 2,032member
    xyzzy-xxx said:
    Users should have the choice to buy from Apple's App Store or another App Store. Other App Stores could be added to the platform (with support from Apple) without sacrificing the security of the platform (the security model of iOS could stay intact). Of course Apple's app review would be replaced by a third party app review (other rules within the law). There also would be many identical apps available from several App Stores (maybe with different pricing).
    Users have a choice.  They can buy android if they don’t like it.   The iPhone is a platform and the App Store is part of that platform.  It is not an open computer like a PC.  It is a specialist platform and users know that when they choose it.  Apple’s platform, Apple’s rules.   

    As a small time developer I am in favor of the App Store.  It removes lots of burdens of selling software and provides an easy platform to do so. 
    Scot1j2fusionuraharabaconstangjony0qwerty52Dogpersonwatto_cobra
     8Likes 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 5 of 22
    jdgazjdgaz Posts: 408member
    Is it possible to file a class action against the class of developers? 
    mcdaveDogpersonwatto_cobraesquared
     4Likes 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 6 of 22
    silvergold84silvergold84 Posts: 107unconfirmed, member
    iPhone is powerful that any android top models. On iPhone you can’t install trash’s apps from online. People buy Apple’s products also thanks to their characteristics. Who don’t know how it work can ask to the Apple Store , or by telephone, or online on the Apple’s websites. Almost all people know how it work and what iPhone offer. Infact now there is choice for the people: you can buy an unsafe, worst and open android or an iPhone with his characteristics. People prefer iPhone: android now sell almost only on entry level price line. So why the class actions? Because someone try to use people (that are looking for money) to obtain changes. Consider that Apple is the developer and the owner of their products/service. No one force a developer to create apps for iPhone but if they want there are cost and rules , with high quality standard also about privacy. Apple can offer a music service? Yes , and it’s different from the others. Look at Spotify for example: they are on App Store , they can interact with Apple Watch. But they also sell your personal informations like name, surname, preferences of listening, ecc. Apple Music don’t.  
    edited June 2021
    Dogpersonwatto_cobra
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  • Reply 7 of 22
    sflocalsflocal Posts: 6,179member
    This has the stink of Epic behind the scenes trying to rally bitches to play for Sweeney's team.
    DAalsethScot1baconstangjony0qwerty52Dogpersonwatto_cobra
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  • Reply 8 of 22
    DAalsethdaalseth Posts: 3,297member
    sflocal said:
    This has the stink of Epic behind the scenes trying to rally bitches to play for Sweeney's team.
    That’s a very good thought. No proof, but yes it does smell like Epic Astroturfing. 
    jony0watto_cobra
     2Likes 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 9 of 22
    mcdavemcdave Posts: 1,927member
    Once these idiots have got their own way, they’ll wander off to complain about some other imagined oppression leaving the rest of us without a platform.

    Do we wait until after Gonzalez rules to convene the largest class action ever to preserve the App Store? Or do we just stay silent whilst the defiant little boys take over the world?
    Scot1jony0Dogpersonwatto_cobra
     4Likes 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 10 of 22
    genovellegenovelle Posts: 1,481member
    xyzzy-xxx said:
    Users should have the choice to buy from Apple's App Store or another App Store. Other App Stores could be added to the platform (with support from Apple) without sacrificing the security of the platform (the security model of iOS could stay intact). Of course Apple's app review would be replaced by a third party app review (other rules within the law). There also would be many identical apps available from several App Stores (maybe with different pricing).
    One, why should Apple invest money to allow others to make money and not them. They are not a government agency or a nonprofit. In fact to do so would be a dereliction of their duty to stockholders. As a public company their job is to strategically make money. They designed their store to do so while allowing 20 million developers to profit as well. 
    I am an Apple User since 2001 and have purchased iPhones since their release. Apple’s walled garden and single store is why most real apple buyers choose their devices. Allowing that level of access and removal of profit motive for Apple’s extensive platform invests is harmful to us and a violation of our rights. 

    We should file a class action lawsuit against anyone looking to undermine our investments. I have 5 devices that were purchased to work together without interference from outside sources because we trust Apple. An outside store means anyone can come along and offer cheaper prices to lure customers but provide no protections. They could claim to do so but actually be a front for a nefarious operation designed to hack into your systems. 

    With over 20 Million Developers its hard enough to stay on top of security and safety. Ads a 3rd party and the protections go out of the window. 
     
    Scot1baconstangjony0qwerty52Dogpersonwatto_cobraDetnator
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  • Reply 11 of 22
    Japheyjaphey Posts: 1,773member
    xyzzy-xxx said:
    Users should have the choice to buy from Apple's App Store or another App Store. Other App Stores could be added to the platform (with support from Apple) without sacrificing the security of the platform (the security model of iOS could stay intact). Of course Apple's app review would be replaced by a third party app review (other rules within the law). There also would be many identical apps available from several App Stores (maybe with different pricing).
    “With support from Apple”? Are you fucking kidding me? Why on earth would Apple support other app stores? Any of the risks that a 3rd party app store will inevitably bring will more than offset any perceived benefit that it provides…which has been Apple’s  point from the very beginning. This will just lead people and devs right back to Apple. Make no mistake…if this happens, there will no helping the competition. 
    jony0Dogpersonwatto_cobra
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  • Reply 12 of 22
    AppleZuluapplezulu Posts: 2,536member
    Apparently when playing Fortnite, you can buy outfits and pickaxes and other gear to use while you play. To get that stuff, you have to exchange currency like dollars or euros for "V-Bucks," the only currency allowed within in the game's platform. You know who owns the rights to V-Bucks? Epic! You know who owns all the in-game stuff available to buy with V-Bucks? Epic! You have to trade your money in for Epic's V-Bucks in order to buy in-game gear from Epic, and only from Epic. That's a Fortnite monopoly!

    I think I should be able to buy armor, pickaxes and other gear from third-party vendors, and to do so directly, using whatever currency I prefer, be it dollars, yen or dogecoin. Epic needs to open up their platform to allow other developers to design gear and stuff that will side-load and work within the game, and allow those developers to sell their wares directly to consumers without Epic taking a cut!

    If Epic won't agree to that, we should file a class-action lawsuit to demand that they break up their Fortnite V-Bucks monopoly! Who's with me?!
    get seriousurahararoundaboutnowbaconstangjony0tommytallboyapplguywatto_cobraDetnator
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  • Reply 13 of 22
    qwerty52qwerty52 Posts: 384member
    xyzzy-xxx said:
    Users should have the choice to buy from Apple's App Store or another App Store. Other App Stores could be added to the platform (with support from Apple) without sacrificing the security of the platform (the security model of iOS could stay intact). Of course Apple's app review would be replaced by a third party app review (other rules within the law). There also would be many identical apps available from several App Stores (maybe with different pricing).
    Insane. 
    According your logic, if the users are paying for the support from Apple plus paying for a third party app review,
    it will be cheaper then when the users are only paying Apple.
    Or maybe you found someone who is willing to do all of this for nothing.
    jony0watto_cobra
     2Likes 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 14 of 22
    mattinozmattinoz Posts: 2,680member
    It would be fun to see that list of developers and see if most of their apps could be web apps?

    how many have preexisting web apps but find it hard to get customer trust without the App Store brand supporting them?
    watto_cobra
     1Like 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 15 of 22
    nicholfdnicholfd Posts: 832member
    xyzzy-xxx said:
    Users should have the choice to buy from Apple's App Store or another App Store. Other App Stores could be added to the platform (with support from Apple) without sacrificing the security of the platform (the security model of iOS could stay intact). Of course Apple's app review would be replaced by a third party app review (other rules within the law). There also would be many identical apps available from several App Stores (maybe with different pricing).
    Bullshit.
    qwerty52Dogpersonwatto_cobra
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  • Reply 16 of 22
    applguyapplguy Posts: 235member
    The same class action suit should be brought against Sony and Microsoft. The most recent consoles (Xbox Series S and PlayStation digital edition) can only download games from the respective manufacturers store. Both Sony and Microsoft have created their own “monopoly”. Consumers should file a class action suit as the 30% store commission and lack of alternative stores is harming the consumer through higher prices. The cost of games increases year after year with the cost now approaching $70 for a triple A game. The argument that the console is sold at a loss is borders on predatory pricing anti-trust law. 
    watto_cobra
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  • Reply 17 of 22
    applguyapplguy Posts: 235member
    mattinoz said:
    It would be fun to see that list of developers and see if most of their apps could be web apps?

    how many have preexisting web apps but find it hard to get customer trust without the App Store brand supporting them?
    Spotify has a web app. Not a great experience but it does work. I’m sure the UX could be improved but assume 99% of usage is through native apps so why bother.  
     0Likes 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 18 of 22
    esquaredesquared Posts: 5member
    DAalseth said:
    j2fusion said:
    Let’s kill the goose that laid the golden egg. There would be no App Store if Apple didn’t maintain such tight control. The Wild West would have taken over and people would have given upon purchasing apps long ago if they couldn’t be sure it was safe. The only reason Google Play exists is because of the success of the App Store.  
    I was about to say exactly the same thing. They are playing with fire and could very well get burned by their own actions. The very definition of pyrrhic victory. 
    Exactly thinking along both of yours line of thinking. They’re going to bite the hand that feeds them and will regret it at some point.

    Over the last year or two since the argument came up, Apple having a monopoly, I’ve yet to figure how they conclude this thought process given the massive Android devices out selling iPhones. Can we hypothesis or better yet identify whether developers creating apps for both Android and iOS show a higher purchase volume and revenue from Apple’s App Store over Androids? If that’s the case, developers should be taking their fight to Android and filing grievances with them for their lack of security and consumer trust hindering their profit margins. At what point will individuals stop pointing their fingers and realize they voluntarily selected to conduct business with a company that has established policies and rules that must be followed? This continual sense of entitlement is really becoming old and pathetic.
    Dogpersonwatto_cobraDetnator
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  • Reply 19 of 22
    Japheyjaphey Posts: 1,773member
    genovelle said:
    xyzzy-xxx said:
    Users should have the choice to buy from Apple's App Store or another App Store. Other App Stores could be added to the platform (with support from Apple) without sacrificing the security of the platform (the security model of iOS could stay intact). Of course Apple's app review would be replaced by a third party app review (other rules within the law). There also would be many identical apps available from several App Stores (maybe with different pricing).
    One, why should Apple invest money to allow others to make money and not them. They are not a government agency or a nonprofit. In fact to do so would be a dereliction of their duty to stockholders. As a public company their job is to strategically make money. They designed their store to do so while allowing 20 million developers to profit as well. 
    I am an Apple User since 2001 and have purchased iPhones since their release. Apple’s walled garden and single store is why most real apple buyers choose their devices. Allowing that level of access and removal of profit motive for Apple’s extensive platform invests is harmful to us and a violation of our rights. 

    We should file a class action lawsuit against anyone looking to undermine our investments. I have 5 devices that were purchased to work together without interference from outside sources because we trust Apple. An outside store means anyone can come along and offer cheaper prices to lure customers but provide no protections. They could claim to do so but actually be a front for a nefarious operation designed to hack into your systems.  
    I 100% agree. Like it or not, 3rd party app stores are coming, and this is exactly why I’ve decided that I’ll be sticking with Apple’s when they do. I suspect that many other people will too. 
    watto_cobra
     1Like 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 20 of 22
    mattinozmattinoz Posts: 2,680member
    Japhey said:
    genovelle said:
    xyzzy-xxx said:
    Users should have the choice to buy from Apple's App Store or another App Store. Other App Stores could be added to the platform (with support from Apple) without sacrificing the security of the platform (the security model of iOS could stay intact). Of course Apple's app review would be replaced by a third party app review (other rules within the law). There also would be many identical apps available from several App Stores (maybe with different pricing).
    One, why should Apple invest money to allow others to make money and not them. They are not a government agency or a nonprofit. In fact to do so would be a dereliction of their duty to stockholders. As a public company their job is to strategically make money. They designed their store to do so while allowing 20 million developers to profit as well. 
    I am an Apple User since 2001 and have purchased iPhones since their release. Apple’s walled garden and single store is why most real apple buyers choose their devices. Allowing that level of access and removal of profit motive for Apple’s extensive platform invests is harmful to us and a violation of our rights. 

    We should file a class action lawsuit against anyone looking to undermine our investments. I have 5 devices that were purchased to work together without interference from outside sources because we trust Apple. An outside store means anyone can come along and offer cheaper prices to lure customers but provide no protections. They could claim to do so but actually be a front for a nefarious operation designed to hack into your systems.  
    I 100% agree. Like it or not, 3rd party app stores are coming, and this is exactly why I’ve decided that I’ll be sticking with Apple’s when they do. I suspect that many other people will too. 
    I assume the only store to last more than 12month will be large monopolistic game stores who already exist. Small developers will find that no new avenues are created for them and they’ll burn most of their good will trying to create their own. 
    watto_cobra
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