Proposed antitrust bills would ban Apple from preinstalling its own iOS apps

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Comments

  • Reply 21 of 67
    sflocal said:
    So if I build my own phone and my own os, and sell it as a single product, I would be barred from loading my own apps on it?

    F**k you politicians.  

    I see no scenario where Apple would ever let this happen.  If passed, it will be forever tied up in the courts.  The iPhone has plenty of competition.  There is zero point to this.
    This is no different than Microsoft in the end of ''90. Start using brain. It was bad that time and it is bad now. You people are so blind that you blame Microsoft and then 20 years later it is okay for another large corporation to try and monopolize market. Are you born fairly recently with last year brainwash problem or you did not put enough study to know prior cases like this one and ruling on them?
    williamlondon
  • Reply 22 of 67
    JapheyJaphey Posts: 838member
    I would imagine that IF this actually happens, it would only affect those new to the iPhone. Current users will still be able to transfer all the first party apps they currently use over to their new phone just like they can with all their third party apps. I’m not saying this doesn’t suck, or that I support it any way, only that it will probably affect a very small number of people. 
    retrogustomuthuk_vanalingamwilliamlondonwatto_cobra
  • Reply 23 of 67
    qwerty52qwerty52 Posts: 311member
    This is the top of the stupidness! 
    The most of the users will never know what exactly they need to install 
    on their new device in order to be able to use it.
    It is the same, as to buy a brand new car without engine, wheels, a steering wheel and seats. 
    How many people will have the knowledge about which exactly engine, wheels, a steering wheel or seats  they need to buy
    to be able to drive with this car?

    AppleUfmyIwatto_cobra
  • Reply 24 of 67
    nealc5nealc5 Posts: 37member
    AppleZulu said:
    Next up, let's not allow automakers to include factory sound systems in cars. Instead, they have to leave the hole open for any after-market radio you want to install. For that matter, they shouldn't be able to pre-install any component for which there is a third-party competitor. Tires, wheels, brakes, fog lights, headlights, floor mats, shocks, turbos, tailpipes, seat covers, seats, wiper blades, wipers, windshields, sunroofs, moon-roofs, batteries, belts, oil, coolant, the list goes on. Let's break the automakers' monopoly on car components they want to force you to take preinstalled on your new car!
    Why stop there? What if I want a Toyota hybrid drive train, but I want that in a Chevy. Shouldn't GM be forced to sell me a car without an engine? Why not get Costco to stop selling "Kirkland" brand items.

    Apple's business model has ALWAYS been, since the birth of the Macintosh in 1984, to provide a turnkey solution. Operating system and hardware together, from the same company.  And that combination has to appeal to users, or they will go to their competitors, who work on the open hardware model (Windows PC's and Android devices). Apple almost went out of business in the late 1990's because they DIDN'T make the hardware/software model compelling.  That changed, and we are where we are today. What's next? They won't allow Apple to use their own silicon in their products, because it forces out competition with Intel? Let's get real.

    Forcing a company to change their successful business model won't help competition.  They may be able to force Apple to allow competing app stores...I can see that coming.  Those of you that had Blackberries may remember the multiple app stores that had variations of the same app, and not knowing which one was the one you wanted.  What a mess. You don't have to buy apps from the Google Play store, but how many do that?

    But to sell an iPhone without 1st party apps? Apple gives away iMovie with every phone and iPad.  Apple doesn't stop people from buying Adobe Premiere.  If Congress forces Apple to sell a "bare bones" iPhone, all Apple will need to do is to e-mail a new registered owner with a list of "essential" apps to download.  What a waste of time.
    retrogustozeus423baconstangwatto_cobra
  • Reply 25 of 67
    Would this stop Companies like Dell, HP, or Toshiba, from preloading their own bloatware? Will This stop Amazon, from loading their own apps on their tablets, what about the plethora of Android phones and tablets?

    Apple’s apps can easily be deleted and new apps different apps installed. This bill is absolute nonsense. 
    Dogpersonwatto_cobra
  • Reply 26 of 67
    nealc5nealc5 Posts: 37member
    sflocal said:
    So if I build my own phone and my own os, and sell it as a single product, I would be barred from loading my own apps on it?

    F**k you politicians.  

    I see no scenario where Apple would ever let this happen.  If passed, it will be forever tied up in the courts.  The iPhone has plenty of competition.  There is zero point to this.
    This is no different than Microsoft in the end of ''90. Start using brain. It was bad that time and it is bad now. You people are so blind that you blame Microsoft and then 20 years later it is okay for another large corporation to try and monopolize market. Are you born fairly recently with last year brainwash problem or you did not put enough study to know prior cases like this one and ruling on them?
    Microsoft used hardball tactics to force PC hardware makers to pre-load Windows. Some wanted to pre-load Linux and Microsoft tried to deny them licenses.  Microsoft actively tried to kill Internet Explorer competitors. Apple is not doing that. Apple created the "walled garden" iPhone to purposely limit the virus-riddled free-for-all software industry that plagued computer systems for years. When I had a Blackberry in the early 2000's, software downloads were terrible, and some software crashed my phone a few times. The constraints make it work better.  I do agree that now that it is mature, they could open up to competing app stores. But if you don't like the Apple approach, then buy an Android phone (or Windows PC). That's the competition. There's nothing stopping anyone from buying a Samsung phone. Many people do.
    FileMakerFellerzeus423Rayz2016williamlondonwatto_cobra
  • Reply 27 of 67
    larryjwlarryjw Posts: 832member
    Owners will now need to be system integrators. Sure, that's going to happen. 

    Do even the Apple competitors want what is included in these bills? Certainly not most of the competitors. 

    The politicians have and courts have no clue about economics and anti-trust. An economy of mom-and-pop companies is not an economy that can sustain itself -- not in a global economy. 
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 28 of 67
    Further proof government fucks up *everything* it touches. Beyond things they absolutely must be involved in, the further away they are the better. 
    zeus423watto_cobra
  • Reply 29 of 67
    sflocalsflocal Posts: 5,730member
    sflocal said:
    So if I build my own phone and my own os, and sell it as a single product, I would be barred from loading my own apps on it?

    F**k you politicians.  

    I see no scenario where Apple would ever let this happen.  If passed, it will be forever tied up in the courts.  The iPhone has plenty of competition.  There is zero point to this.
    This is no different than Microsoft in the end of ''90. Start using brain. It was bad that time and it is bad now. You people are so blind that you blame Microsoft and then 20 years later it is okay for another large corporation to try and monopolize market. Are you born fairly recently with last year brainwash problem or you did not put enough study to know prior cases like this one and ruling on them?
    Your ignorance is showing if you believe this has any relation to Microsoft's anti-trust issues of the 90's and 2000's.  Were you even out of diapers yet when that happened?

    Microsoft got in trouble for bullying computer makers on what they can and can't do with their machines.  Apple owns the entire widget.  A fact you conveniently exclude from your "argument"

    Smooth brain trolls like you always employ revisionist theory to suit your narrative.  Try again.
    DogpersonthtRayz2016williamlondonwatto_cobra
  • Reply 30 of 67
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 23,171member
    AppleZulu said:
    Next up, let's not allow automakers to include factory sound systems in cars. Instead, they have to leave the hole open for any after-market radio you want to install. For that matter, they shouldn't be able to pre-install any component for which there is a third-party competitor. Tires, wheels, brakes, fog lights, headlights, floor mats, shocks, turbos, tailpipes, seat covers, seats, wiper blades, wipers, windshields, sunroofs, moon-roofs, batteries, belts, oil, coolant, the list goes on. Let's break the automakers' monopoly on car components they want to force you to take preinstalled on your new car!
    Magnuson-Moss Act.

    Buy the car and put whatever you want on it. Buy the iPhone and put whatever you want on it. 
    edited June 16 muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 31 of 67
    These idiots are so far disconnected from technology that they think a user will know how to download a mail app so they can get email - and a messages app and a browser, etc.

    What a bunch of idiots.

    All they do is listen to the two bit third party application software lobbyists, and don't even ask fellow smartphone users what that experience of assembling an application suite would be like - especially for a novice user. Naturally their own phones are probably set up by aides.

    If this were the case from the get go, there never would've been a smart touch phone revolution outside of a tiny circle of nerds - who may well have simply stuck with their Blackberries.
    williamlondonwatto_cobra
  • Reply 32 of 67
    crowleycrowley Posts: 8,728member
    Pretty sure my iPhone didn't come with pages anyway?

    Loads of Apple's apps aren't preinstalled so I don't really mind much.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 33 of 67
    sdbryansdbryan Posts: 348member
    sflocal said:
    So if I build my own phone and my own os, and sell it as a single product, I would be barred from loading my own apps on it?

    F**k you politicians.  

    I see no scenario where Apple would ever let this happen.  If passed, it will be forever tied up in the courts.  The iPhone has plenty of competition.  There is zero point to this.
    This is no different than Microsoft in the end of ''90. Start using brain. It was bad that time and it is bad now. You people are so blind that you blame Microsoft and then 20 years later it is okay for another large corporation to try and monopolize market. Are you born fairly recently with last year brainwash problem or you did not put enough study to know prior cases like this one and ruling on them?
    This case is most definitely different from the Microsoft case from the 90’s. The unquestionable difference has been described above but you might have a reading comprehension problem. Microsoft licensed its OS to many different computer hardware companies (essentially all except Apple). When they saw a threat to their dominance from the emergence of the internet and specifically the Netscape browser, Microsoft used its monopoly power for supply of the MS Windows OS licenses to force their licensees to surpress Netscape and guarantee that Internet Explorer would be the default browser. It did lead to the demise of Netscape as planned. Since I am an old fart, I watched it as it happened and don’t fall for your flawed whataboutism.
    Dogpersonwilliamlondonwatto_cobra
  • Reply 34 of 67
    acejax805acejax805 Posts: 106member
    I feel like I’m reading on an old Microsoft BBS or IRC. Some of the comments are almost word for word objections Microsoft fans used in 2001 to support Microsoft. Some things never change. 
  • Reply 35 of 67
    thttht Posts: 4,031member
    crowley said:
    Pretty sure my iPhone didn't come with pages anyway?

    Loads of Apple's apps aren't preinstalled so I don't really mind much.
    Some government committee is going to divine the difference between an app and an operating system. I guarantee you that no one will like what they say is an app and what is not.

    Is the phone dialer an app? What about the software keyboard? What about the camera app? Messages? Contacts? How about farther down the stack. Are the drivers for networking an app? What about USB drivers? A Search function like Spotlight? Search used to be an app on PCs way back when, so why not? What about an App Store app? Voice assistants? How about the Unix subsystem and all the apps there? Springboard (the home screen app) can't be shipped by default?

    How about platform APIs? Is Apple allowed to break them? Will they be forced to maintained APIs they would otherwise deprecate? What about access to the encryption/decryption hardware? Are they allowed to introduce new APIs? Are those APIs only limited to the operating system, whatever that is?
    DBSyncwatto_cobra
  • Reply 36 of 67
    iOS_Guy80iOS_Guy80 Posts: 526member
    Absolutely ridiculous, don’t politicians have more important things to deal with.
    zeus423williamlondonwatto_cobra
  • Reply 37 of 67
    thttht Posts: 4,031member
    Further proof government fucks up *everything* it touches. Beyond things they absolutely must be involved in, the further away they are the better. 
    It's definitely one of those "outrageous first offers, and after some compromise, they'll come out with something closer to what they want."

    Unfortunately, another much more likely outcome would be the the tech industry realizing that gov't is "insane", and therefore will enter the politics business where they sponsor candidates that will protect them. Money can buy legislation after all.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 38 of 67
    crowleycrowley Posts: 8,728member
    tht said:
    crowley said:
    Pretty sure my iPhone didn't come with pages anyway?

    Loads of Apple's apps aren't preinstalled so I don't really mind much.
    Some government committee is going to divine the difference between an app and an operating system. I guarantee you that no one will like what they say is an app and what is not.

    Is the phone dialer an app? What about the software keyboard? What about the camera app? Messages? Contacts? How about farther down the stack. Are the drivers for networking an app? What about USB drivers? A Search function like Spotlight? Search used to be an app on PCs way back when, so why not? What about an App Store app? Voice assistants? How about the Unix subsystem and all the apps there? Springboard (the home screen app) can't be shipped by default?

    How about platform APIs? Is Apple allowed to break them? Will they be forced to maintained APIs they would otherwise deprecate? What about access to the encryption/decryption hardware? Are they allowed to introduce new APIs? Are those APIs only limited to the operating system, whatever that is?
    To every question: probably not, or whatever the less invasive one is.

    You're getting a bit worked up over bills that do anything close to what you're suggesting and probably won't even pass.
    edited June 16
  • Reply 39 of 67
    thttht Posts: 4,031member
    Would this stop Companies like Dell, HP, or Toshiba, from preloading their own bloatware? Will This stop Amazon, from loading their own apps on their tablets, what about the plethora of Android phones and tablets?

    Apple’s apps can easily be deleted and new apps different apps installed. This bill is absolute nonsense. 
    Nope. This proposal is only for companies that have a market cap above $600B or revenues above $600B, adjusted for inflation. There is also a 50m active user number for social media companies.

    So, if a company doesn't meet those criteria, they are free to do what they want. The bills are specifically targeted at Amazon, Apple, Facebook, Twitter, Google, Microsoft, etc.
    gatorguywatto_cobra
  • Reply 40 of 67
    This is a recipe for disaster - forcing Apple to ship minimally functional devices to please 3rd party developers (and their lobbyists).

    You can find and write to your representative here - please locate and write to your representative and let them know you do not support this potential legislation.
    williamlondonwatto_cobraqwerty52
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