In my ignorance, I'm fairly certain of one family of apps that would require 64bit computing: game developing tools. I remember reading a couple of weeks ago (sorry, looked for the URL everywhere, but couldn't find it) a blog... Maybe from the developers at id/Doom or Epic/Unreal2, don't quite remember... Anyway, this developer was actually bashing an Intel statement which sort of said "32 bits are enough for everybody".
He complained that designing whole worlds in 3D was already becoming difficult on current Xeon systems (36bit addressing, IIRC?), because of the RAM limit. And since the tools he used were developed in-house for Windows he was basically saying he'd switch to Hammer right away (well, as soon as MS ships Win for that platform).
Playing those games is of course a different story, but it looks like those developers/designers might truly benefit from 64bit CPUs... Nevermind that games are usually designed on Windows and then simply ported to OS X!
With the notable exception of Ambrosia! Moki, is it true Apeiron's finally coming to OS X?
Maybe going 100% S-ATA wouldn't be too smart, but leaving it out completely would sure be dumb!
ZoSo
I don't understand your conclusion. I read the article. It says this drive is being marketed toward enterprise business not desktop computers although it works well in that niche. It sounds like a very special drive for a special few individuals. If you want want bad enough you could get a Serial ATA PCI card.
I don't understand your conclusion. I read the article. It says this drive is being marketed toward enterprise business not desktop computers although it works well in that niche. It sounds like a very special drive for a special few individuals. If you want want bad enough you could get a Serial ATA PCI card.
My conclusion was that omitting S-ATA completely from the new motherboards would be an incredibly foolish move. True, that drive is high end-ish right now, but in 6 months? In 12? It's not that nobody saw S-ATA coming, and the guys at Apple didn't have time or forgot to implement it... My conclusion is that somebody at Apple is clearly on drugs if those specs--and more specifically S-ATA absence--are true; however I strongly believe those specs, because of S-ATA absence are utter rubbish.
It wouldn't make too much sense, would it? Tomorrow's processor, yesterday storage, last week's graphics? I, FWIW, am not going to buy without S-ATA: a 970-based machine that I'd buy would have to last for at least five years, and in 5 years S-ATA will be a must. Speaking of graphics, anybody would dare to speculate on the GPU the 970s will sport? Hopefully that ridiculous GeForce4 MX will disappear altogether from the lineup...
Maybe going 100% S-ATA wouldn't be too smart, but leaving it out completely would sure be dumb!
ZoSo
Not only that, but in one of these 970 threads it was mentioned that the scaling multiplier would not likely add up to 1.6ghz. That's what we would expect [non-techy types] because of the natural Apple-bump-tradition, but not in the scaling of the 970. So it's BS to me.
Maybe going 100% S-ATA wouldn't be too smart, but leaving it out completely would sure be dumb!
ZoSo
... that is, unless of course, implimenting serial ATA is substantially more difficult than implimenting ATA 133, in which case, it might delay your desperately needed 970 release due to bugs and extended beta testing.
I have no idea if it's more difficult or not, but if it is, Apple can't afford any more delays right now, in which case, sacrificing on the difference between ATA 133 and S ATA in order to get the 970 out the door in a timely matter, is probably a price worth paying.
They can always spend the next few months safely debugging an S ATA mobo for the next mild revision, while the 133 970 mobo is already out the door, I don't think many people are going to delay a purchase of a 970 simply because it doesn't have S ATA.
I have no idea if it's more difficult or not, but if it is, Apple can't afford any more delays right now, in which case, sacrificing on the difference between ATA 133 and S ATA in order to get the 970 out the door in a timely matter, is probably a price worth paying.
Agreed. If they announce it at WWDC with immediate availability.
If the 970 appears on the shelves in November then it's another story. And as I said it's not that S-ATA is some unexpected technology that now they're trying to adopt in a hurry. All High-end PC mobos have a dedicated S-ATA controller, and by this summer it'll be integrated in the Southbridge. I'm only saying that it'd be nice for once to have all the "new cool things" together...
iirc, Apple and IBM are working together on the 970 since 2000.
So since then Apple must have a lot of time to create a new mobo.
And if not ?
They can still look at the nForce2 mobo who was introduced July 16, 2002.
nForce 2 mobo has : HyperTransport, DualDDR 400 memory subsystem (6,4 GBps bandwidth), AGP 8X, USB 2, FireWire 400, Dolby Digital 5.1 encoding/decoding, Ultra ATA 133 (a lot of system builder like Asus put SATA 150 also)
I think we will see the same big differences with the Power Mac 970 & the G4 than in the B/W G3 and the last 604e.
Warning: I haven't read all the pages of this thread so, as eBay says, caveat emptor
Ok, so we have all the exciting speculation about the wonderful guts of a new PowerMac, the 970, but... where is the sex? It just wouldn't be Apple style to release a revolutionary new Mac without giving it a new distinct case (and let's face it, we've had the current tower disign for ages now).
Comments
Did anyone read it? The site isn't available now.
Processor : single 1.4 ghz, single 1.6 ghz and dual 1.8 ghz
Drives : Combo (1.4ghz), DVD-R (1.6 ghz) and DVD-R (dual)
HD : ATA 133 interface
Expansion : PCI-X
ports : Firewire 800 and USB 2
Wireless : bluetooth and airport extreme
RAM : 4 DDR slots (Ram modules have to be paired)
Others :Hypertransport motherboard
Enclosure : new silver enclosure
The prices are expected to be the same as the current tower line....
I am telling myself to wait until the midrange is DP, but I do not know if I will be listening
Originally posted by DrBoar
From Secretmac:
I am telling myself to wait until the midrange is DP, but I do not know if I will be listening
If that spec is true I will wait for the dual 2Ghz comes out
Originally posted by Leonis
If that spec is true I will wait for the dual 2Ghz comes out
Leonis, don't you want to sell your slowsilver asap ?
are you sure you can wait that long ?
He complained that designing whole worlds in 3D was already becoming difficult on current Xeon systems (36bit addressing, IIRC?), because of the RAM limit. And since the tools he used were developed in-house for Windows he was basically saying he'd switch to Hammer right away (well, as soon as MS ships Win for that platform).
Playing those games is of course a different story, but it looks like those developers/designers might truly benefit from 64bit CPUs... Nevermind that games are usually designed on Windows and then simply ported to OS X!
With the notable exception of Ambrosia!
ZoSo
Originally posted by DrBoar
The specs seem to be the following :
Processor : single 1.4 ghz, single 1.6 ghz and dual 1.8 ghz
Drives : Combo (1.4ghz), DVD-R (1.6 ghz) and DVD-R (dual)
HD : ATA 133 interface
Expansion : PCI-X
ports : Firewire 800 and USB 2
Wireless : bluetooth and airport extreme
RAM : 4 DDR slots (Ram modules have to be paired)
Others :Hypertransport motherboard
Enclosure : new silver enclosure
Hmmm, what's wrong with this? Oh yes, no S-ATA...
Maybe going 100% S-ATA wouldn't be too smart, but leaving it out completely would sure be dumb!
ZoSo
Originally posted by ZoSo
Hmmm, what's wrong with this? Oh yes, no S-ATA...
Maybe going 100% S-ATA wouldn't be too smart, but leaving it out completely would sure be dumb!
ZoSo
I don't understand your conclusion. I read the article. It says this drive is being marketed toward enterprise business not desktop computers although it works well in that niche. It sounds like a very special drive for a special few individuals. If you want want bad enough you could get a Serial ATA PCI card.
Originally posted by neutrino23
I don't understand your conclusion. I read the article. It says this drive is being marketed toward enterprise business not desktop computers although it works well in that niche. It sounds like a very special drive for a special few individuals. If you want want bad enough you could get a Serial ATA PCI card.
My conclusion was that omitting S-ATA completely from the new motherboards would be an incredibly foolish move. True, that drive is high end-ish right now, but in 6 months? In 12? It's not that nobody saw S-ATA coming, and the guys at Apple didn't have time or forgot to implement it... My conclusion is that somebody at Apple is clearly on drugs if those specs--and more specifically S-ATA absence--are true; however I strongly believe those specs, because of S-ATA absence are utter rubbish.
It wouldn't make too much sense, would it? Tomorrow's processor, yesterday storage, last week's graphics? I, FWIW, am not going to buy without S-ATA: a 970-based machine that I'd buy would have to last for at least five years, and in 5 years S-ATA will be a must. Speaking of graphics, anybody would dare to speculate on the GPU the 970s will sport? Hopefully that ridiculous GeForce4 MX will disappear altogether from the lineup...
ZoSo
Originally posted by ZoSo
Hmmm, what's wrong with this? Oh yes, no S-ATA...
Maybe going 100% S-ATA wouldn't be too smart, but leaving it out completely would sure be dumb!
ZoSo
Not only that, but in one of these 970 threads it was mentioned that the scaling multiplier would not likely add up to 1.6ghz. That's what we would expect [non-techy types] because of the natural Apple-bump-tradition, but not in the scaling of the 970. So it's BS to me.
Originally posted by ZoSo
Maybe going 100% S-ATA wouldn't be too smart, but leaving it out completely would sure be dumb!
ZoSo
... that is, unless of course, implimenting serial ATA is substantially more difficult than implimenting ATA 133, in which case, it might delay your desperately needed 970 release due to bugs and extended beta testing.
I have no idea if it's more difficult or not, but if it is, Apple can't afford any more delays right now, in which case, sacrificing on the difference between ATA 133 and S ATA in order to get the 970 out the door in a timely matter, is probably a price worth paying.
They can always spend the next few months safely debugging an S ATA mobo for the next mild revision, while the 133 970 mobo is already out the door, I don't think many people are going to delay a purchase of a 970 simply because it doesn't have S ATA.
Originally posted by OverToasty
I have no idea if it's more difficult or not, but if it is, Apple can't afford any more delays right now, in which case, sacrificing on the difference between ATA 133 and S ATA in order to get the 970 out the door in a timely matter, is probably a price worth paying.
Agreed. If they announce it at WWDC with immediate availability.
If the 970 appears on the shelves in November then it's another story. And as I said it's not that S-ATA is some unexpected technology that now they're trying to adopt in a hurry. All High-end PC mobos have a dedicated S-ATA controller, and by this summer it'll be integrated in the Southbridge. I'm only saying that it'd be nice for once to have all the "new cool things" together...
RAID baby, RAID!!!
ZoSo
So since then Apple must have a lot of time to create a new mobo.
And if not ?
They can still look at the nForce2 mobo who was introduced July 16, 2002.
nForce 2 mobo has : HyperTransport, DualDDR 400 memory subsystem (6,4 GBps bandwidth), AGP 8X, USB 2, FireWire 400, Dolby Digital 5.1 encoding/decoding, Ultra ATA 133 (a lot of system builder like Asus put SATA 150 also)
I think we will see the same big differences with the Power Mac 970 & the G4 than in the B/W G3 and the last 604e.
Remember:
604e_________G3_____________G4_______________970
50 MHz Bus___100 MHz Bus____167 (2.7 GBps)______? (6.4 GBps)
SCSI_________ATA 33________ATA 100____________SATA 150
DIMM________PC100_________PC2700____________PC3200
4MB VRAM___PCI16 VRAM_____AGP 4X__________AGP 8X
Floppy_______USB___________USB______________USB 2
ADB/Serial____FireWire________FireWire 800_______FW800
Ethernet 10___Ethernet 100____Eth.10/100/1000____idem ditto
Ok, so we have all the exciting speculation about the wonderful guts of a new PowerMac, the 970, but... where is the sex?
Any ideas or rumours about the new case design?