M1 16-inch MacBook Pro mistakenly listed by Apple Germany

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  • Reply 21 of 27
    fastasleepfastasleep Posts: 6,067member
    darkvader said:

    The reality is that the M1 is fine for a toy like an iPad, but it's too limited for anything more than a low-end general purpose computer.  16GB RAM in 2021 is a sad joke.

    [...]

    It was obsolete, deficient, underpowered, and overpriced when it was released. I mean, seriously, a processor released in 2020 that couldn't address more than 16GB RAM?  A processor released in 2020 that could only handle two Thunderbolt/USB ports?  A processor that can't even handle a dedicated GPU so you get nothing but its underpowered integrated graphics?  It's fine for a toy like the iPad, but it doesn't belong in a computer.

    Apple shouldn't have used that junk in last year's computers.  It definitely doesn't belong in computers that haven't even been released yet.
    Gee, maybe that's why the extent of the M1 releases were all of the "low-end general purpose computer" Macs in the lineup? And even those bested even some of the previous Intel Macs even at the higher end. And AND we have solid rumors now regarding the CPU/GPU core counts, addressable RAM, Thunderbolt channels, etc in the upcoming Pro-oriented variants of Apple Silicon? Either you're exceedingly ignorant on this subject or you're being willfully obtuse. Either way, this is all nonsense.

    16GB is absolutely fine for general computing purposes. Lots of people are using them for tasks far beyond that as well without issue. 

    I'm skeptical that the Acorn RISC Machine architcture is the future of computing.  Apple's tried chip design and RISC before, then the PowerPC hit a wall.  Could this time be different?  Maybe, but remember ARM is almost as old as the 68k, it's an older architecture than PowerPC.
    Yeah, stupid Apple — "they're not just going to walk in" etc. Clearly Apple has been examining their rapidly-climbing graphs of performance and energy efficiency and put all their chips in knowing they're about to hit this wall you speak of. You sound like the idiots back in the day that thought humans couldn't ever travel faster than a horse.
    baconstangscstrrfh2pwatto_cobraDetnator
  • Reply 22 of 27
    MplsPMplsP Posts: 3,614member
    MplsP said:
    darkvader said:
    MplsP said:
    lkrupp said:
    Apple techies, being what they are, will have an absolute hissy fit if the next Mac uses an M1. The M1 is already yesterday’s news, obsolete, deficient, underpowered and overpriced... and it only been around less than a year. 
    We’ll, yes and no. The biggest drawbacks are memory and graphics. It’s perfect for a MacBook Air, imac or lower level MacBook Pro, but for people who want more power it does have legitimate limitations. 
     
    Seeing how Apple said they would replace the entire Mac lineup in 2 years it’s not unreasonable to expect a more powerful version sometime soon. 

    Except they're going to hit the same wall everybody else will. 

    The reality is that the M1 is fine for a toy like an iPad, but it's too limited for anything more than a low-end general purpose computer.  16GB RAM in 2021 is a sad joke.
    From what I’ve read, the M1 outperforms what you would expect for 16GB RAM, but I agree with your larger point - for true ‘pro’’ level work, they need more RAM capacity and video capabilities, which is exactly why I’m an ‘M2’ in the near future. 
    There is no such thing as a definition of what a “true pro” user is and what they need. But per Apple (Craig F), the biggest user base of pro users is software developers. Developers aren’t 4K video editors and aren’t hitting any walls with the M1’s 16GB design.

    Do I expect more in the future? Of course. Is there a problem with it? Not at all. Especially for developers. If I needed a new machine today and this is what I got, I wouldn’t be worried about it  
    True; by ‘pro’ I meant people working with large graphics and video files that need more graphics processing power and more than 2 monitors. I haven’t seen any actual tests, but I suspect that, efficient with memory as it is, the M1 would still suffer when faced with extremely large files. 

    At some point, Apple will replace the Mac Pro, and as it stands the M1 would not be an adequate substitute. Like many others, I expect an ‘M2’ to arrive that will fill that gap. 

    For the vast majority of people you are correct; the M1 is more than adequate and is a significant improvement over the intel machines. Personally, I’m eagerly looking forward to replacing my 2016 MBP with an APple Silicon machine - hoping for a 16” to be released this fall!
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 23 of 27
    xav3xav3 Posts: 6member
    darkvader said:
    darkvader said:

    Except they're going to hit the same wall everybody else will. 

    The reality is that the M1 is fine for a toy like an iPad, but it's too limited for anything more than a low-end general purpose computer.  16GB RAM in 2021 is a sad joke.

    Keep your day job genius. What you know about the M series chips are about as much as your knowledge to post thoughtfully. 
    The M series upside is unknown. It may already be near its ceiling but that is extremely unlikely for a large successful company to put big money into development of tech that has near future limitation. In the near future the M series and ARM may be what most personal computing is based off of, or something else may come along to trump it.. But you already know that, right? being the top level thinker your post reveals.

    I'll definitely keep my day job which I assure you is not being one of those script-following board-swappers Apple likes to call "geniuses".

    The M series future is somewhat known.  Apple will hit the same wall everybody else will.  TSMC, who actually make the chips since Apple has zero manufacturing capability, have already announced their plan to make 3nm and 2nm chips in the future.  IBM claims they're already making 2nm, we'll see if they can get any volume.  But 2nm is getting close to the end of the line, and we'll see if even TSMC manages to push below that, 1nm will probably happen but there's a decent chance that sub-nanometer won't even be workable.

    I'm skeptical that the Acorn RISC Machine architcture is the future of computing.  Apple's tried chip design and RISC before, then the PowerPC hit a wall.  Could this time be different?  Maybe, but remember ARM is almost as old as the 68k, it's an older architecture than PowerPC.

    Wherever you work I feel sorry for the outlook of that company.  You obviously like to play EE for Apple or TSMC online yet it is obviously you know less than nothing. Notice how you chage to "somewhat" known now. Fyi, everyone can see that and, while they are already were scoffing, just laugh at your typed non think blathering. And anyone like you (and other screen names you use) who would claim a gen 1 of a chip (now)"has a 'somewhat' known ceiling" is laughable. 
    TSMC hasn’t start mass production of 3nm, it is limited production more for test purposes. TSMC does not yet have EUV Lithography machines for less then 3nm - for that they need new clean rooms and new EUV Lithography machines. ASML, the supplier of these EUV Lithography machines, just finished the machine they start producing next year. But it is like with airplanes, it takes time to build. Likely, we don’t see <3nm before 2025.  IBM also does not have EUV machines for 2nm chips (same reason, ASML hasn’t produced and shipped new machines). Studies to defining 2nm chips are done in software. You need to validate new gateways (FinFet is obsolete). 
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 24 of 27
    DetnatorDetnator Posts: 287member
    darkvader said:
    lkrupp said:
    Apple techies, being what they are, will have an absolute hissy fit if the next Mac uses an M1. The M1 is already yesterday’s news, obsolete, deficient, underpowered and overpriced... and it only been around less than a year. 

    It was obsolete, deficient, underpowered, and overpriced when it was released. I mean, seriously, a processor released in 2020 that couldn't address more than 16GB RAM?  A processor released in 2020 that could only handle two Thunderbolt/USB ports?  A processor that can't even handle a dedicated GPU so you get nothing but its underpowered integrated graphics?  It's fine for a toy like the iPad, but it doesn't belong in a computer.

    Apple shouldn't have used that junk in last year's computers.  It definitely doesn't belong in computers that haven't even been released yet.
    You’re hilarious.  Have you actually used one?

    I don’t give a damn about all your specs and numbers.  There’s stuff called engineering and efficiency and so on that you don’t seem to understand. 

    I have a maxed out 16” Intel MBP (64GB RAM 8-core i9 highest end GPU) and a 16GB M1 13” MBP. For all but the most intensive graphics work the M1 craps on the 16”. 

    You have no idea what you’re talking about. 

    Some cars’ four cylinder engines are more powerful than other cars’ V8 engines. How does that work I wonder?
    edited July 2021 fastasleepwatto_cobra
  • Reply 25 of 27
    mcdavemcdave Posts: 1,907member
    darkvader said:
    MplsP said:
    lkrupp said:
    Apple techies, being what they are, will have an absolute hissy fit if the next Mac uses an M1. The M1 is already yesterday’s news, obsolete, deficient, underpowered and overpriced... and it only been around less than a year. 
    We’ll, yes and no. The biggest drawbacks are memory and graphics. It’s perfect for a MacBook Air, imac or lower level MacBook Pro, but for people who want more power it does have legitimate limitations. 
     
    Seeing how Apple said they would replace the entire Mac lineup in 2 years it’s not unreasonable to expect a more powerful version sometime soon. 

    Except they're going to hit the same wall everybody else will. 

    The reality is that the M1 is fine for a toy like an iPad, but it's too limited for anything more than a low-end general purpose computer.  16GB RAM in 2021 is a sad joke.
    It is a low end general purpose chip which is why they put it in the low end genera purpose products which should account for around 80% of Mac sales.

    Apple Silicon isn’t about GHz & core count, it’s about designing the hardware for the software. Here is where the huge productivity gains are but only in real-world output, not performance benchmarks. Cinebench is a classic example of a useless benchmark as the majority of 3D artists time is spent on scene creation, not rendering…with a CPU renderer…optimised for AVX2. I’d expect an M1X with Metal Layer acceleration before masses of GPU cores.

    Unless the vendor designs the hardware for the OS, they can’t deliver anything but incremental, power hungry improvements.
    fastasleepwatto_cobra
  • Reply 26 of 27
    mcdavemcdave Posts: 1,907member
    darkvader said:
    darkvader said:

    Except they're going to hit the same wall everybody else will. 

    The reality is that the M1 is fine for a toy like an iPad, but it's too limited for anything more than a low-end general purpose computer.  16GB RAM in 2021 is a sad joke.

    Keep your day job genius. What you know about the M series chips are about as much as your knowledge to post thoughtfully. 
    The M series upside is unknown. It may already be near its ceiling but that is extremely unlikely for a large successful company to put big money into development of tech that has near future limitation. In the near future the M series and ARM may be what most personal computing is based off of, or something else may come along to trump it.. But you already know that, right? being the top level thinker your post reveals.

    I'll definitely keep my day job which I assure you is not being one of those script-following board-swappers Apple likes to call "geniuses".

    The M series future is somewhat known.  Apple will hit the same wall everybody else will.  TSMC, who actually make the chips since Apple has zero manufacturing capability, have already announced their plan to make 3nm and 2nm chips in the future.  IBM claims they're already making 2nm, we'll see if they can get any volume.  But 2nm is getting close to the end of the line, and we'll see if even TSMC manages to push below that, 1nm will probably happen but there's a decent chance that sub-nanometer won't even be workable.

    I'm skeptical that the Acorn RISC Machine architcture is the future of computing.  Apple's tried chip design and RISC before, then the PowerPC hit a wall.  Could this time be different?  Maybe, but remember ARM is almost as old as the 68k, it's an older architecture than PowerPC.
    Old thinking. Die-shrinking may have its limits but Apple has the integration advantage. A CPU ISA is just for management. The heavy-lifting is, & will increasingly, be delivered by dedicated silicon engines, the discrete GPU is a crude, limited example of this. As Apple carves away parts of it’s suite of OS’, renders them as gate-array logic and really takes flight, everyone else will be hitting that wall, or perhaps more accurately falling off the cliff, of innovation.
    fastasleepwatto_cobra
  • Reply 27 of 27
    fastasleepfastasleep Posts: 6,067member
    MplsP said:
    MplsP said:
    darkvader said:
    MplsP said:
    lkrupp said:
    Apple techies, being what they are, will have an absolute hissy fit if the next Mac uses an M1. The M1 is already yesterday’s news, obsolete, deficient, underpowered and overpriced... and it only been around less than a year. 
    We’ll, yes and no. The biggest drawbacks are memory and graphics. It’s perfect for a MacBook Air, imac or lower level MacBook Pro, but for people who want more power it does have legitimate limitations. 
     
    Seeing how Apple said they would replace the entire Mac lineup in 2 years it’s not unreasonable to expect a more powerful version sometime soon. 

    Except they're going to hit the same wall everybody else will. 

    The reality is that the M1 is fine for a toy like an iPad, but it's too limited for anything more than a low-end general purpose computer.  16GB RAM in 2021 is a sad joke.
    From what I’ve read, the M1 outperforms what you would expect for 16GB RAM, but I agree with your larger point - for true ‘pro’’ level work, they need more RAM capacity and video capabilities, which is exactly why I’m an ‘M2’ in the near future. 
    There is no such thing as a definition of what a “true pro” user is and what they need. But per Apple (Craig F), the biggest user base of pro users is software developers. Developers aren’t 4K video editors and aren’t hitting any walls with the M1’s 16GB design.

    Do I expect more in the future? Of course. Is there a problem with it? Not at all. Especially for developers. If I needed a new machine today and this is what I got, I wouldn’t be worried about it  
    True; by ‘pro’ I meant people working with large graphics and video files that need more graphics processing power and more than 2 monitors. I haven’t seen any actual tests, but I suspect that, efficient with memory as it is, the M1 would still suffer when faced with extremely large files. 
    There are a lot of people editing 4K video without issue on M1 Macs. 
    watto_cobra
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