#1: ALWAYS take out AppleCare when you buy a new product
#2: ALWAYS extend AppleCare when the 2 year period expires
Murphy's law is alive a well. Don't mess with Murphy's law.
People can bicker all they want over who was at fault. But, in the end, it still costs them $500.
Well no, why should people pay more to Apple to fix their design flaws? Apple should always repair issues that can be attributable to bad design - for free - within say 5 years of the product's sale. Bad design resulting in a problem that is widespread, and affects say >0.1% or > 5000 units of that model.
Of course there are people who claim that they've not dropped their device and the screen just cracked, despite there being a large dent on the corner. That isn't a design flaw and shouldn't be repaired under warranty. However, Apple has a habit of marking down pristine devices as "good" condition, and claiming small marks without enough impact force to deform the case, are the reason a problem has occurred. If the devices are so fragile that a small knock on the corner causes major issues, that is also poor design.
#1: ALWAYS take out AppleCare when you buy a new product
#2: ALWAYS extend AppleCare when the 2 year period expires
Murphy's law is alive a well. Don't mess with Murphy's law.
People can bicker all they want over who was at fault. But, in the end, it still costs them $500.
Well no, why should people pay more to Apple to fix their design flaws? Apple should always repair issues that can be attributable to bad design - for free - within say 5 years of the product's sale. Bad design resulting in a problem that is widespread, and affects say >0.1% or > 5000 units of that model.
Of course there are people who claim that they've not dropped their device and the screen just cracked, despite there being a large dent on the corner. That isn't a design flaw and shouldn't be repaired under warranty. However, Apple has a habit of marking down pristine devices as "good" condition, and claiming small marks without enough impact force to deform the case, are the reason a problem has occurred. If the devices are so fragile that a small knock on the corner causes major issues, that is also poor design.
First of all, you can claim that a manufacture's warranty for a heavily used and abused device lasts 5 years, but that's simply not the law in this country (or any that I know of) so if you want such a warranty for longer than 1 year then get AppleCare. You can also say that you'll just create or wait for a class action lawsuit, but don't think you'll come out ahead by sitting on a defective product until such time as Apple loses the case or settles.
AppleCare+ has benefits well beyond some manufacturer issue that may not exist at all. I personally like knowing that I can get my screen repaired on the cheap if I happen to drop it. Have you priced how much it is to get an iPad Pro screen replaced without AC+? I have and it made more sense to just buy an new iPad.
#1: ALWAYS take out AppleCare when you buy a new product
#2: ALWAYS extend AppleCare when the 2 year period expires
Murphy's law is alive a well. Don't mess with Murphy's law.
People can bicker all they want over who was at fault. But, in the end, it still costs them $500.
Well no, why should people pay more to Apple to fix their design flaws? Apple should always repair issues that can be attributable to bad design - for free - within say 5 years of the product's sale. Bad design resulting in a problem that is widespread, and affects say >0.1% or > 5000 units of that model.
Of course there are people who claim that they've not dropped their device and the screen just cracked, despite there being a large dent on the corner. That isn't a design flaw and shouldn't be repaired under warranty. However, Apple has a habit of marking down pristine devices as "good" condition, and claiming small marks without enough impact force to deform the case, are the reason a problem has occurred. If the devices are so fragile that a small knock on the corner causes major issues, that is also poor design.
I think you made my point: Shit happens. Often a "design flaw" is a relative thing: I have closed my Thinkpad on a hard object any number of times and it suffered no damage. But, it's built like a tank and feels like it and looks like it. A MacBook Air is thinner, lighter and more delicate.
Then you get to the user tripping on the power cord, pulling the machine off the table and cracking the screen. Was that a design flaw because Apple eliminated the mag safe connector or the fault of the clutzy user? Applecare+ covers either scenario. Actually, it covers all scenarios (but intentional damage): wear & tear, design flaws and accidental damage.
I don't consider it paying Apple extra. I consider it part of the sales price.
#1: ALWAYS take out AppleCare when you buy a new product
#2: ALWAYS extend AppleCare when the 2 year period expires
Murphy's law is alive a well. Don't mess with Murphy's law.
People can bicker all they want over who was at fault. But, in the end, it still costs them $500.
Well no, why should people pay more to Apple to fix their design flaws? Apple should always repair issues that can be attributable to bad design - for free - within say 5 years of the product's sale. Bad design resulting in a problem that is widespread, and affects say >0.1% or > 5000 units of that model.
Of course there are people who claim that they've not dropped their device and the screen just cracked, despite there being a large dent on the corner. That isn't a design flaw and shouldn't be repaired under warranty. However, Apple has a habit of marking down pristine devices as "good" condition, and claiming small marks without enough impact force to deform the case, are the reason a problem has occurred. If the devices are so fragile that a small knock on the corner causes major issues, that is also poor design.
First of all, you can claim that a manufacture's warranty for a heavily used and abused device lasts 5 years, but that's simply not the law in this country (or any that I know of) so if you want such a warranty for longer than 1 year then get AppleCare. You can also say that you'll just create or wait for a class action lawsuit, but don't think you'll come out ahead by sitting on a defective product until such time as Apple loses the case or settles.
AppleCare+ has benefits well beyond some manufacturer issue that may not exist at all. I personally like knowing that I can get my screen repaired on the cheap if I happen to drop it. Have you priced how much it is to get an iPad Pro screen replaced without AC+? I have and it made more sense to just buy an new iPad.
Please do point out where I "claim[ed] that a manufacture's warranty for a heavily used and abused device lasts 5 years". I explicitly said "there are people who claim that they've not dropped their device and the screen just cracked, despite there being a large dent on the corner. That isn't a design flaw and shouldn't be repaired under warranty."
Instead of AppleCare+ you can replace the iPad screen yourself for about $170. Less than AppleCare+ especially with the excess for accidental damage. Either way getting AppleCare+ for its accidental damage coverage is completely unrelated to manufacturer defects, which is the subject of this thread and is the context in which my reply was written.
#1: ALWAYS take out AppleCare when you buy a new product
#2: ALWAYS extend AppleCare when the 2 year period expires
Murphy's law is alive a well. Don't mess with Murphy's law.
People can bicker all they want over who was at fault. But, in the end, it still costs them $500.
Well no, why should people pay more to Apple to fix their design flaws? Apple should always repair issues that can be attributable to bad design - for free - within say 5 years of the product's sale. Bad design resulting in a problem that is widespread, and affects say >0.1% or > 5000 units of that model.
Of course there are people who claim that they've not dropped their device and the screen just cracked, despite there being a large dent on the corner. That isn't a design flaw and shouldn't be repaired under warranty. However, Apple has a habit of marking down pristine devices as "good" condition, and claiming small marks without enough impact force to deform the case, are the reason a problem has occurred. If the devices are so fragile that a small knock on the corner causes major issues, that is also poor design.
I think you made my point: Shit happens. Often a "design flaw" is a relative thing: I have closed my Thinkpad on a hard object any number of times and it suffered no damage. But, it's built like a tank and feels like it and looks like it. A MacBook Air is thinner, lighter and more delicate.
Then you get to the user tripping on the power cord, pulling the machine off the table and cracking the screen. Was that a design flaw because Apple eliminated the mag safe connector or the fault of the clutzy user? Applecare+ covers either scenario. Actually, it covers all scenarios (but intentional damage): wear & tear, design flaws and accidental damage.
I don't consider it paying Apple extra. I consider it part of the sales price.
A MacBook Air is of course more delicate, but there comes a point when the fragility is a defect. There is no need for it to be so fragile, Apple makes it so because they're obsessed with thinness and thus form over function. It doesn't need to be so thin that a grain of sand cracks the screen. That's bad design.
No matter how much I resent the removal of Magsafe, I wouldn't say it's a design flaw. It could coexist with USB-C, but that's a different matter. Such an issue is obviously under the accidental damage category. Users have a responsibility to look after the device (not getting it wet, not getting it too hot etc) and yoinking it onto the floor isn't taking care of the device.
The machine shouldn't however be damaged by something as insignificant and omnipresent as a few grains of dirt. Users shouldn't have to make sure to wipe the surfaces of the laptop clean each time close it lest they get a scratched or damaged screen, that would be overly burdensome. Not only that, the ultimate cause of the damage is purely down to a whimsical design decision to shave off another 0.Nmm. There is no technical or material advantage to losing that extra space between the display, only a negative trade off between durability and thickness. We're not talking losing millimetres from the overall thickness, because that would turn the argument upside down (i.e. users shouldn't have gravel on their keyboard), but fractions of a millimetre.
Apple has a responsibility to ensure the product is suitably tough for the intended environment. Almost any environment will at some point end up with grit in it, unless you live in a clean room.
Whether you consider it part of the sales price or not is irrelevant. People shouldn't have to pay extra as an insurance against poor design. And luckily in the UK, we are protected for up to 6 years after the sale from manufacturing defects present at the time of delivery.
#1: ALWAYS take out AppleCare when you buy a new product
#2: ALWAYS extend AppleCare when the 2 year period expires
Murphy's law is alive a well. Don't mess with Murphy's law.
People can bicker all they want over who was at fault. But, in the end, it still costs them $500.
Well no, why should people pay more to Apple to fix their design flaws? Apple should always repair issues that can be attributable to bad design - for free - within say 5 years of the product's sale. Bad design resulting in a problem that is widespread, and affects say >0.1% or > 5000 units of that model.
Of course there are people who claim that they've not dropped their device and the screen just cracked, despite there being a large dent on the corner. That isn't a design flaw and shouldn't be repaired under warranty. However, Apple has a habit of marking down pristine devices as "good" condition, and claiming small marks without enough impact force to deform the case, are the reason a problem has occurred. If the devices are so fragile that a small knock on the corner causes major issues, that is also poor design.
I think you made my point: Shit happens. Often a "design flaw" is a relative thing: I have closed my Thinkpad on a hard object any number of times and it suffered no damage. But, it's built like a tank and feels like it and looks like it. A MacBook Air is thinner, lighter and more delicate.
Then you get to the user tripping on the power cord, pulling the machine off the table and cracking the screen. Was that a design flaw because Apple eliminated the mag safe connector or the fault of the clutzy user? Applecare+ covers either scenario. Actually, it covers all scenarios (but intentional damage): wear & tear, design flaws and accidental damage.
I don't consider it paying Apple extra. I consider it part of the sales price.
A MacBook Air is of course more delicate, but there comes a point when the fragility is a defect. There is no need for it to be so fragile, Apple makes it so because they're obsessed with thinness and thus form over function. It doesn't need to be so thin that a grain of sand cracks the screen. That's bad design.
No matter how much I resent the removal of Magsafe, I wouldn't say it's a design flaw. It could coexist with USB-C, but that's a different matter. Such an issue is obviously under the accidental damage category. Users have a responsibility to look after the device (not getting it wet, not getting it too hot etc) and yoinking it onto the floor isn't taking care of the device.
The machine shouldn't however be damaged by something as insignificant and omnipresent as a few grains of dirt. Users shouldn't have to make sure to wipe the surfaces of the laptop clean each time close it lest they get a scratched or damaged screen, that would be overly burdensome. Not only that, the ultimate cause of the damage is purely down to a whimsical design decision to shave off another 0.Nmm. There is no technical or material advantage to losing that extra space between the display, only a negative trade off between durability and thickness. We're not talking losing millimetres from the overall thickness, because that would turn the argument upside down (i.e. users shouldn't have gravel on their keyboard), but fractions of a millimetre.
Apple has a responsibility to ensure the product is suitably tough for the intended environment. Almost any environment will at some point end up with grit in it, unless you live in a clean room.
Whether you consider it part of the sales price or not is irrelevant. People shouldn't have to pay extra as an insurance against poor design. And luckily in the UK, we are protected for up to 6 years after the sale from manufacturing defects present at the time of delivery.
True.
But, if it was something that the user closed the lid on, I suspect it was more substantial than "a few grains of dirt". Which brings us full circle back to: if it was big enough to bend and crack the screen, was that a design flaw on Apple's part or carelessness on the user's part?
In my own experience: The screen on my iPhone 6+ cracked and later it developed "touch disease". i knew what the cause was: the pants i was wearing while building a set of stone steps while my phone was in my pocket bent the phone. But, I took it back to the Apple Store and they replaced the phone because the iPhone 6 "Bendgate" problem where Apple was accused of a design flaw.
While I knew that it was at least partially my fault, I also knew that, had I kept my iPhone 5 it would not have happened. So that, plus the fact that the phone was so old it was worth very little (it dropped off support a few months later), soothed my conscience that I was taking advantage of this Apple program.
#1: ALWAYS take out AppleCare when you buy a new product
#2: ALWAYS extend AppleCare when the 2 year period expires
Murphy's law is alive a well. Don't mess with Murphy's law.
People can bicker all they want over who was at fault. But, in the end, it still costs them $500.
Well no, why should people pay more to Apple to fix their design flaws? Apple should always repair issues that can be attributable to bad design - for free - within say 5 years of the product's sale. Bad design resulting in a problem that is widespread, and affects say >0.1% or > 5000 units of that model.
Of course there are people who claim that they've not dropped their device and the screen just cracked, despite there being a large dent on the corner. That isn't a design flaw and shouldn't be repaired under warranty. However, Apple has a habit of marking down pristine devices as "good" condition, and claiming small marks without enough impact force to deform the case, are the reason a problem has occurred. If the devices are so fragile that a small knock on the corner causes major issues, that is also poor design.
I think you made my point: Shit happens. Often a "design flaw" is a relative thing: I have closed my Thinkpad on a hard object any number of times and it suffered no damage. But, it's built like a tank and feels like it and looks like it. A MacBook Air is thinner, lighter and more delicate.
Then you get to the user tripping on the power cord, pulling the machine off the table and cracking the screen. Was that a design flaw because Apple eliminated the mag safe connector or the fault of the clutzy user? Applecare+ covers either scenario. Actually, it covers all scenarios (but intentional damage): wear & tear, design flaws and accidental damage.
I don't consider it paying Apple extra. I consider it part of the sales price.
A MacBook Air is of course more delicate, but there comes a point when the fragility is a defect. There is no need for it to be so fragile, Apple makes it so because they're obsessed with thinness and thus form over function. It doesn't need to be so thin that a grain of sand cracks the screen. That's bad design.
No matter how much I resent the removal of Magsafe, I wouldn't say it's a design flaw. It could coexist with USB-C, but that's a different matter. Such an issue is obviously under the accidental damage category. Users have a responsibility to look after the device (not getting it wet, not getting it too hot etc) and yoinking it onto the floor isn't taking care of the device.
The machine shouldn't however be damaged by something as insignificant and omnipresent as a few grains of dirt. Users shouldn't have to make sure to wipe the surfaces of the laptop clean each time close it lest they get a scratched or damaged screen, that would be overly burdensome. Not only that, the ultimate cause of the damage is purely down to a whimsical design decision to shave off another 0.Nmm. There is no technical or material advantage to losing that extra space between the display, only a negative trade off between durability and thickness. We're not talking losing millimetres from the overall thickness, because that would turn the argument upside down (i.e. users shouldn't have gravel on their keyboard), but fractions of a millimetre.
Apple has a responsibility to ensure the product is suitably tough for the intended environment. Almost any environment will at some point end up with grit in it, unless you live in a clean room.
Whether you consider it part of the sales price or not is irrelevant. People shouldn't have to pay extra as an insurance against poor design. And luckily in the UK, we are protected for up to 6 years after the sale from manufacturing defects present at the time of delivery.
True.
But, if it was something that the user closed the lid on, I suspect it was more substantial than "a few grains of dirt". Which brings us full circle back to: if it was big enough to bend and crack the screen, was that a design flaw on Apple's part or carelessness on the user's part?
In my own experience: The screen on my iPhone 6+ cracked and later it developed "touch disease". i knew what the cause was: the pants i was wearing while building a set of stone steps while my phone was in my pocket bent the phone. But, I took it back to the Apple Store and they replaced the phone because the iPhone 6 "Bendgate" problem where Apple was accused of a design flaw.
While I knew that it was at least partially my fault, I also knew that, had I kept my iPhone 5 it would not have happened. So that, plus the fact that the phone was so old it was worth very little (it dropped off support a few months later), soothed my conscience that I was taking advantage of this Apple program.
Absolutely. IMO, something bigger than a few grains of dirt would constitute lack of care by the user and thus accidental damage. The screen in my 2015 MBP is pretty stiff, so unless there was a manufacturing flaw or a revision to the display since then, any bending of the screen is almost certainly the user's fault.
There of course has to be a trade off between fragility and weight/thickness, they could make a Thinkpad style brick but that's just overkill. But IMO Apple is leaning toward fragility too much, and it's all down to their obsession with thin. As I said earlier, the thinness causes a huge number of issues in Apple's products, for essentially no gain. Battery life, durability (stiffness, screen/keyboard tolerances, butterfly keyboard issues), heat dissipation, lack of ports, lack of camera zoom, camera bump etc.
You were lucky that they replaced it, I've been at the genius bar for my own device and had someone next to me refused service for a repair extension due to a damaged device. Though it could well have been that the device was too badly damaged to reasonably repair. Oh and you really shouldn't to reassure your conscience that you aren't taking advantage of a $2tn company
#1: ALWAYS take out AppleCare when you buy a new product
#2: ALWAYS extend AppleCare when the 2 year period expires
Murphy's law is alive a well. Don't mess with Murphy's law.
People can bicker all they want over who was at fault. But, in the end, it still costs them $500.
Well no, why should people pay more to Apple to fix their design flaws? Apple should always repair issues that can be attributable to bad design - for free - within say 5 years of the product's sale. Bad design resulting in a problem that is widespread, and affects say >0.1% or > 5000 units of that model.
Of course there are people who claim that they've not dropped their device and the screen just cracked, despite there being a large dent on the corner. That isn't a design flaw and shouldn't be repaired under warranty. However, Apple has a habit of marking down pristine devices as "good" condition, and claiming small marks without enough impact force to deform the case, are the reason a problem has occurred. If the devices are so fragile that a small knock on the corner causes major issues, that is also poor design.
I think you made my point: Shit happens. Often a "design flaw" is a relative thing: I have closed my Thinkpad on a hard object any number of times and it suffered no damage. But, it's built like a tank and feels like it and looks like it. A MacBook Air is thinner, lighter and more delicate.
Then you get to the user tripping on the power cord, pulling the machine off the table and cracking the screen. Was that a design flaw because Apple eliminated the mag safe connector or the fault of the clutzy user? Applecare+ covers either scenario. Actually, it covers all scenarios (but intentional damage): wear & tear, design flaws and accidental damage.
I don't consider it paying Apple extra. I consider it part of the sales price.
A MacBook Air is of course more delicate, but there comes a point when the fragility is a defect. There is no need for it to be so fragile, Apple makes it so because they're obsessed with thinness and thus form over function. It doesn't need to be so thin that a grain of sand cracks the screen. That's bad design.
No matter how much I resent the removal of Magsafe, I wouldn't say it's a design flaw. It could coexist with USB-C, but that's a different matter. Such an issue is obviously under the accidental damage category. Users have a responsibility to look after the device (not getting it wet, not getting it too hot etc) and yoinking it onto the floor isn't taking care of the device.
The machine shouldn't however be damaged by something as insignificant and omnipresent as a few grains of dirt. Users shouldn't have to make sure to wipe the surfaces of the laptop clean each time close it lest they get a scratched or damaged screen, that would be overly burdensome. Not only that, the ultimate cause of the damage is purely down to a whimsical design decision to shave off another 0.Nmm. There is no technical or material advantage to losing that extra space between the display, only a negative trade off between durability and thickness. We're not talking losing millimetres from the overall thickness, because that would turn the argument upside down (i.e. users shouldn't have gravel on their keyboard), but fractions of a millimetre.
Apple has a responsibility to ensure the product is suitably tough for the intended environment. Almost any environment will at some point end up with grit in it, unless you live in a clean room.
Whether you consider it part of the sales price or not is irrelevant. People shouldn't have to pay extra as an insurance against poor design. And luckily in the UK, we are protected for up to 6 years after the sale from manufacturing defects present at the time of delivery.
True.
But, if it was something that the user closed the lid on, I suspect it was more substantial than "a few grains of dirt". Which brings us full circle back to: if it was big enough to bend and crack the screen, was that a design flaw on Apple's part or carelessness on the user's part?
In my own experience: The screen on my iPhone 6+ cracked and later it developed "touch disease". i knew what the cause was: the pants i was wearing while building a set of stone steps while my phone was in my pocket bent the phone. But, I took it back to the Apple Store and they replaced the phone because the iPhone 6 "Bendgate" problem where Apple was accused of a design flaw.
While I knew that it was at least partially my fault, I also knew that, had I kept my iPhone 5 it would not have happened. So that, plus the fact that the phone was so old it was worth very little (it dropped off support a few months later), soothed my conscience that I was taking advantage of this Apple program.
Absolutely. IMO, something bigger than a few grains of dirt would constitute lack of care by the user and thus accidental damage. The screen in my 2015 MBP is pretty stiff, so unless there was a manufacturing flaw or a revision to the display since then, any bending of the screen is almost certainly the user's fault.
There of course has to be a trade off between fragility and weight/thickness, they could make a Thinkpad style brick but that's just overkill. But IMO Apple is leaning toward fragility too much, and it's all down to their obsession with thin. As I said earlier, the thinness causes a huge number of issues in Apple's products, for essentially no gain. Battery life, durability (stiffness, screen/keyboard tolerances, butterfly keyboard issues), heat dissipation, lack of ports, lack of camera zoom, camera bump etc.
You were lucky that they replaced it, I've been at the genius bar for my own device and had someone next to me refused service for a repair extension due to a damaged device. Though it could well have been that the device was too badly damaged to reasonably repair. Oh and you really shouldn't to reassure your conscience that you aren't taking advantage of a $2tn company
I agree 200%
As for the phone replacement: it was replaced due to its "touch disease" (a known issue) rather than the cracked screen. In fact, at first, they did refuse to replace it because of the cracked screen. At the Apple Store I go to it often depends more on who talk to than what the issue is. Part of the problem was that the Touch Disease issue had kind of blown by into history.
I wonder how many iPhones spontaneously developed cracked screens over the years, when in fact people started carrying them in their back pocket.
I am 6ft 1in 225lbs.. I have been carrying my phone in my back pocket since the iPhone 5, and then with Plus/ Max phones since the iPhone 6 and have never cracked a screen. I have forgotten and sat down fully many times in my car or office chair with no issues. I use my back pocket because I was always afraid of scratching the screen with the rivets on the small watch pocket on my jeans as my company went to full casual dress years ago, so I was wearing jeans pretty much every day.
I wonder how many iPhones spontaneously developed cracked screens over the years, when in fact people started carrying them in their back pocket.
I carry my iPhone in my left front jeans pocket. I rather it nuke my balls than have a crack screen.
I am 6ft 1in 225 lbs and carry my phone in my back pocket. Starting from iPhone 5 and all of the plus/max large phones as well. I did have a slightly bent iphone 6 though that I am sure now was probably from my weight..but no cracked screen. The bend came to light when I was getting the battery swapped out to gift the phone to my younger brother. I had Apple care so they swapped it out no issue.
I have accidentally sat on my phone in the car and the my office chair many times and have never cracked a screen. Unless you fall on your rear or sit down really hard on a hard surface, like similar to falling hard.. I think a lot of these screen cracks are from drops and not the back pocket.
Apple needs to step up or this will result in yet another lawsuit... potentially class action.
I have worked on industrial designs where we had to take significant precautions to prevent cracking of a clear plastic lens. While a notebook computer would not experience the same level of physical stress, incorporating clamped plastic in a design can be quite tricky.
How many WinTel laptops experience the same issue? Little to no info? It's not because it doesn't happen. It's because they're not Apple so no one cares. How many screens are cracking vs how many being sold?
I suspect its more with people not accepting responsibility for their precision piece of tech and expecting it to be Apple's problem.
If the reports are honest, and why assume they’re not, it really shouldn’t be so easy to damage a MacBook screen. You talk about “precision piece of tech”... “Precision” means what in this context? Tiny tolerances for handling a MOBILE device that is expected to be opened and closed and moved around a lot? Go back to the design process and fix those tiny tolerances.
sflocal said: How many WinTel laptops experience the same issue?
Laptop screens are relatively fragile regardless of the manufacturer. They can easily be damaged when closed just by weight on top of the laptop. One common scenario: put laptop into backpack that has books/equipment for work or school and then set the backpack flat on the floor or flat on a table. The weight of the other items can potentially flex the laptop screen enough to cause damage.
Yes, this is true. So the question needs to be asked: Why are “we” accepting MOBILE devices being this flimsy today? This isn’t how it always was.
Don’t tell me “we” chose this by buying lighter and thinner (flimsier) devices. There was no choice when manufacturers made progressively thinner and lighter machines as each revision came out, with Apple putting on most of the market pressure with their pathological pursuit of thinness.
sflocal said: How many WinTel laptops experience the same issue?
Laptop screens are relatively fragile regardless of the manufacturer. They can easily be damaged when closed just by weight on top of the laptop. One common scenario: put laptop into backpack that has books/equipment for work or school and then set the backpack flat on the floor or flat on a table. The weight of the other items can potentially flex the laptop screen enough to cause damage.
Yes, this is true. So the question needs to be asked: Why are “we” accepting MOBILE devices being this flimsy today? This isn’t how it always was.
Don’t tell me “we” chose this by buying lighter and thinner (flimsier) devices. There was no choice when manufacturers made progressively thinner and lighter machines as each revision came out, with Apple putting on most of the market pressure with their pathological pursuit of thinness.
Very true. And there are other benefits besides durability -- such as additional ports and repairability.
But, Apple seems to have backed themselves into a corner on the thin, light, sleek designs. I don't see them going back -- although that could make a great addition to their MacBook line: A workstation.
... If you want a Mac you'll probably just have to put up with any limitations and issues stemming from its design.
Depending on the tolerance between the case and display, something as insignificant as a grain of sand could cause a contact point crack. Apple has gradually reduced the tolerances over the years; the old stamped aluminium Macbooks/Powerbooks had fairly big buffers (~2mm) at the screen corners to help protect against this. The unibody Macs reduced this significantly to around 0.7mm, not sure what it is on the latest ones; but the display glass has become thinner too. I frequently get keyboard marks on the display of my 2015 Macbook, and I nanny it more than I should have to; ensuring there is never pressure on the display. Dust causes scratches on the display so now I regularly clean the display to avoid permanent marks.
Computers are a tool, not a piece of art to only be looked at. The number of issues attributable to Apple's obsession with thin is absurd, but apparently they never learn.
Does this mean that the MacBook should go “unapologetically plastic” so it can be more “bendy?” 😆
Haha not sure I'd go that far The old plastic Macs look so... cheap now, even though they were pretty premium at the time! It always amazes me how flexible PC laptops are, it's no wonder they fall to bits after a few years or less.
I had the black Polycarbonate MacBook. It was a great little laptop. I wish they would bring it back as a small inexpensive model for kids. I had a friend crash on his motor cycle going 70+. He ended up with multiple broken bones but his MacBook was fine.
Amazingly defensive comments here. Utterly weird. Almost a parody of what people think Apple users act like.
It's not like apple hasn't had screen issues before, and I have experienced that myself with a screen that just went dead. Apple fixed it out of warranty because it was their fault.
Isn't this a site for consumers? Apple isn't a political party, or a football team you always root for. Its a company that produces electronic devices and sometimes, because manufacturing is sometimes not perfect, things can go wrong. As consumers we should hope that Apple makes amends and fixes any issues as soon as possible. What I see here is sheepish fanboyism.
And before people who have been here a lot less time than I have start on he accusations of trolling, I have been here from 2003. I am posting on an M1 device, getting another one next week, and if I swivel around I can see my old intel MacBook Pro from 2018. There's about $5k worth of Apple devices in this room alone, with a HomePod and iPhone and AppleTV as well and more about the house. And I've been here since 2003, when the number of Mac Users in my country could fit into a hotel room,. Since my first Mac I have spent tens of thousands on Apple products.
But sometimes things go wrong, and sometimes Apple denies it. Grow up and accept that.
This site is filled with stockholder fanboys that attack when any problem is discussed that impacts their retirement nestegg.
Look at all the vitriol that they hurled whenever the butterfly keyboard was discussed. Eventually it took an Academy Award winner complaining in public and an editorial by Joanna Stern in the Wall Street Journal for them to fix it an come out with new Design. https://www.wsj.com/graphics/apple-still-hasnt-fixed-its-macbook-keyboard-problem/
Anger gets generated when something breaks. Denial sits in and the first thought is to blame others. Then the reality sets in for many and they realize it was their mistake. Then they get to enjoy the barbecued Crow and write the repair check....
My wife's M1 screen cracked and she swore that she didn't do anything wrong. I totally didn't believe her. I owe her an apology. I think that there is merit to this issue, because the screen didn't appear to be cracked on first glance. I think the glass is either too thin or too brittle. I'm willing to bet there is a design flaw that Apple will settle over, alter the design, and not admit fault about while refunding money to anyone who paid to have a screen fixed.
I would be thrilled to trade off some of Apple’s delicate elegance for a bit more ruggedness. I’m not talking Toughbook or Estwing hammer level of ruggedness, but something that can handle an occasional misstep without shattering like a china dinner plate. I’m actually surprised that Apple hasn’t tuned into the “rugged look” aesthetic that’s captured the hearts and wallets of American automobile buyers. The best selling commuter vehicles in the US are 3-ton plus $55K+ massive pickup trucks with 4ft x 8ft grills and squeaky clean air-filled pickup beds that require a step ladder to look inside. If millions of ruggedness inspired consumers are lining up to purchase these rugged looking expensive behemoths, why wouldn’t Apple want to tap into those same wallets?
As an owner and driver of one of these behemoths (Ram 1500), my reason for driving it is not the "rugged look" of the vehicle. Its my defense against "Karen in the Prius with the Smart Phone glued to her nose". You see, when I drove a Kia Optima I'd almost get hit every single time because Karen doesn't fear getting run over by my Optima and thus does things like drift into my lane and ride my rear end. In my truck, Karen stays the hell off my bumper because all she sees is my bumper and trailer hitch and realizes that if she rear ends me, that bumper will be resting on her dash. My truck is tall enough that she can't see anything but my door...which keeps her from drifting into me. So, for my truck it's not the "look" its the sheer size of the vehicle. I live near Saint Louis, the inspiration for Mad Max: Fury Road.
My MacBook Air, on the other hand is a svelte piece of equipment that gets carefully put away after each use...that includes keeping things like paperclips, pens, and other office supplies out of it before closing it. I bought it because it's thin, which means that I just need to be careful about what I do with it. My last MacBook was a 2012 MacBook Pro and I never had any screen cracking issues...mainly because I did the same thing that I do with my Air: keep things out of it when I close it.
The most troublesome Mac I ever had was the 2008 Mac Pro. Still I kept it going until I replaced it with the three-times faster M1 MBA. In 9 months, I believe the saving in electric bills has already paid for half the cost of the MBA, with which I have had no issue - screen cracks or otherwise.
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Of course there are people who claim that they've not dropped their device and the screen just cracked, despite there being a large dent on the corner. That isn't a design flaw and shouldn't be repaired under warranty. However, Apple has a habit of marking down pristine devices as "good" condition, and claiming small marks without enough impact force to deform the case, are the reason a problem has occurred. If the devices are so fragile that a small knock on the corner causes major issues, that is also poor design.
AppleCare+ has benefits well beyond some manufacturer issue that may not exist at all. I personally like knowing that I can get my screen repaired on the cheap if I happen to drop it. Have you priced how much it is to get an iPad Pro screen replaced without AC+? I have and it made more sense to just buy an new iPad.
Instead of AppleCare+ you can replace the iPad screen yourself for about $170. Less than AppleCare+ especially with the excess for accidental damage. Either way getting AppleCare+ for its accidental damage coverage is completely unrelated to manufacturer defects, which is the subject of this thread and is the context in which my reply was written.
No matter how much I resent the removal of Magsafe, I wouldn't say it's a design flaw. It could coexist with USB-C, but that's a different matter. Such an issue is obviously under the accidental damage category. Users have a responsibility to look after the device (not getting it wet, not getting it too hot etc) and yoinking it onto the floor isn't taking care of the device.
The machine shouldn't however be damaged by something as insignificant and omnipresent as a few grains of dirt. Users shouldn't have to make sure to wipe the surfaces of the laptop clean each time close it lest they get a scratched or damaged screen, that would be overly burdensome. Not only that, the ultimate cause of the damage is purely down to a whimsical design decision to shave off another 0.Nmm. There is no technical or material advantage to losing that extra space between the display, only a negative trade off between durability and thickness. We're not talking losing millimetres from the overall thickness, because that would turn the argument upside down (i.e. users shouldn't have gravel on their keyboard), but fractions of a millimetre.
Apple has a responsibility to ensure the product is suitably tough for the intended environment. Almost any environment will at some point end up with grit in it, unless you live in a clean room.
Whether you consider it part of the sales price or not is irrelevant. People shouldn't have to pay extra as an insurance against poor design. And luckily in the UK, we are protected for up to 6 years after the sale from manufacturing defects present at the time of delivery.
There of course has to be a trade off between fragility and weight/thickness, they could make a Thinkpad style brick but that's just overkill. But IMO Apple is leaning toward fragility too much, and it's all down to their obsession with thin. As I said earlier, the thinness causes a huge number of issues in Apple's products, for essentially no gain. Battery life, durability (stiffness, screen/keyboard tolerances, butterfly keyboard issues), heat dissipation, lack of ports, lack of camera zoom, camera bump etc.
You were lucky that they replaced it, I've been at the genius bar for my own device and had someone next to me refused service for a repair extension due to a damaged device. Though it could well have been that the device was too badly damaged to reasonably repair. Oh and you really shouldn't to reassure your conscience that you aren't taking advantage of a $2tn company
Don’t tell me “we” chose this by buying lighter and thinner (flimsier) devices. There was no choice when manufacturers made progressively thinner and lighter machines as each revision came out, with Apple putting on most of the market pressure with their pathological pursuit of thinness.
Look at all the vitriol that they hurled whenever the butterfly keyboard was discussed. Eventually it took an Academy Award winner complaining in public and an editorial by Joanna Stern in the Wall Street Journal for them to fix it an come out with new Design.
https://www.wsj.com/graphics/apple-still-hasnt-fixed-its-macbook-keyboard-problem/
My MacBook Air, on the other hand is a svelte piece of equipment that gets carefully put away after each use...that includes keeping things like paperclips, pens, and other office supplies out of it before closing it. I bought it because it's thin, which means that I just need to be careful about what I do with it. My last MacBook was a 2012 MacBook Pro and I never had any screen cracking issues...mainly because I did the same thing that I do with my Air: keep things out of it when I close it.
Why risk cancer?