No mention on managing the biggest tax avoidance schema in history, for sure part of his values.
Tax evasion is a crime. Tax avoidance is good business.
So you'd support giving Tim Cook credit for it then?
Absolutely! Apple is using legal loopholes put there by the government, knowingly I might add. There’s nothing illegal, immoral, unethical about it. I myself try to avoid paying any more taxes than I have to. I regularly consult with my financial advisor on ways to reduce my tax liability. Don’t you? Do you ever tell your tax preparer to not take a deduction because of ethical concerns? I’m betting not.
Nope, don’t even have a financial advisor or a tax preparer because I live in a country that doesn’t have a bonkers tax system. My tax comes out my pay and my investment income automatically and I don’t claim any deductions, and have no need or desire to lower my liability.
I don’t think the US government intentionally put in the loopholes that allow the double Irish with an dutch sandwich.
You still take advantage of your allowances even if the company does it on your behalf and I guess this company you work for probably takes advantage of any tax concessions it can - have you tackled your company about it? got to make sure they are ethical or maybe you shouldn't work for them
I'm pretty sure they're good, thanks for your concern. But enough about me, Apple on the other hand are definitely dirty.
Evidence?
On the basis I do good and bad I hope my good outweighs the bad - how about yourself - not sure I have the ability easily speak about others (companies) unless it's just a gut feeling - which is not evidence.
Bit creepy dude; we’re talking about Tim Cook and Apple, stop trying to spin it on to me.
Just give some reasoning behind your thoughts (about Tim and Apple) not yourself
What reasoning do you need? Apple's tax arrangements are fairly well documented.
Give a few examples for me - I don't know them - but you do
As I said, it's well documented, easily findable, and has been discussed on this forum many times. I have little interest in a rehash, sorry, I was just responding to the capitalist interrogating me.
I guess you can't find them (if it is easy as you say) so I assume you have no evidence for your thoughts.
I can find it easily enough, the evidence that Apple engage in tax avoidance is not hidden. Even the capitalist accepts it, if he wants Tim Cook to be celebrated for his efforts. It's not my job to do your research for you; if you're genuinely interested then go find it. Try Googling "Apple tax avoidance", I'm sure that'll lead you somewhere.
Otherwise, maybe you're not genuinely interested and are just looking to snipe at me? Sorry dude, I can't be bothered with that crap.
You have all you need, and that's all you're getting from me.
I do not have the possibility to do tax elusion. I’m a consultant, I believe that my ideas belong to Cayman Islands and my knowledge to Ireland. But I cannot structure myself as an entity that pays almost no taxes. And I have to pay taxes on my overall net worth (at market value).
Swiss tax is not so bad, but for sure I’m on a higher tax bracket that most of the people on the 0.01% of net worth.
No mention on managing the biggest tax avoidance schema in history, for sure part of his values.
Tax evasion is a crime. Tax avoidance is good business.
So you'd support giving Tim Cook credit for it then?
Absolutely! Apple is using legal loopholes put there by the government, knowingly I might add. There’s nothing illegal, immoral, unethical about it. I myself try to avoid paying any more taxes than I have to. I regularly consult with my financial advisor on ways to reduce my tax liability. Don’t you? Do you ever tell your tax preparer to not take a deduction because of ethical concerns? I’m betting not.
Nope, don’t even have a financial advisor or a tax preparer because I live in a country that doesn’t have a bonkers tax system. My tax comes out my pay and my investment income automatically and I don’t claim any deductions, and have no need or desire to lower my liability.
I don’t think the US government intentionally put in the loopholes that allow the double Irish with an dutch sandwich.
You still take advantage of your allowances even if the company does it on your behalf and I guess this company you work for probably takes advantage of any tax concessions it can - have you tackled your company about it? got to make sure they are ethical or maybe you shouldn't work for them
I'm pretty sure they're good, thanks for your concern. But enough about me, Apple on the other hand are definitely dirty.
Evidence?
On the basis I do good and bad I hope my good outweighs the bad - how about yourself - not sure I have the ability easily speak about others (companies) unless it's just a gut feeling - which is not evidence.
Bit creepy dude; we’re talking about Tim Cook and Apple, stop trying to spin it on to me.
Just give some reasoning behind your thoughts (about Tim and Apple) not yourself
What reasoning do you need? Apple's tax arrangements are fairly well documented.
Give a few examples for me - I don't know them - but you do
As I said, it's well documented, easily findable, and has been discussed on this forum many times. I have little interest in a rehash, sorry, I was just responding to the capitalist interrogating me.
I guess you can't find them (if it is easy as you say) so I assume you have no evidence for your thoughts.
I can find it easily enough, the evidence that Apple engage in tax avoidance is not hidden. Even the capitalist accepts it, if he wants Tim Cook to be celebrated for his efforts. It's not my job to do your research for you; if you're genuinely interested then go find it. Try Googling "Apple tax avoidance", I'm sure that'll lead you somewhere.
Otherwise, maybe you're not genuinely interested and are just looking to snipe at me? Sorry dude, I can't be bothered with that crap.
You have all you need, and that's all you're getting from me.
I do apologise for winding you up - I know you cannot produce the evidence I ask for.
It it is an unfair request because it's way too complex to come to any balanced view - especially as it's really the governments around the world who are responsible for the weird unfair tax systems that exist and they are the only ones that can fix it.
Or rather it's us the voters that must demand more tax be paid.
No mention on managing the biggest tax avoidance schema in history, for sure part of his values.
Tax evasion is a crime. Tax avoidance is good business.
So you'd support giving Tim Cook credit for it then?
Absolutely! Apple is using legal loopholes put there by the government, knowingly I might add. There’s nothing illegal, immoral, unethical about it. I myself try to avoid paying any more taxes than I have to. I regularly consult with my financial advisor on ways to reduce my tax liability. Don’t you? Do you ever tell your tax preparer to not take a deduction because of ethical concerns? I’m betting not.
Nope, don’t even have a financial advisor or a tax preparer because I live in a country that doesn’t have a bonkers tax system. My tax comes out my pay and my investment income automatically and I don’t claim any deductions, and have no need or desire to lower my liability.
I don’t think the US government intentionally put in the loopholes that allow the double Irish with an dutch sandwich.
You still take advantage of your allowances even if the company does it on your behalf and I guess this company you work for probably takes advantage of any tax concessions it can - have you tackled your company about it? got to make sure they are ethical or maybe you shouldn't work for them
I'm pretty sure they're good, thanks for your concern. But enough about me, Apple on the other hand are definitely dirty.
Evidence?
On the basis I do good and bad I hope my good outweighs the bad - how about yourself - not sure I have the ability easily speak about others (companies) unless it's just a gut feeling - which is not evidence.
Bit creepy dude; we’re talking about Tim Cook and Apple, stop trying to spin it on to me.
Just give some reasoning behind your thoughts (about Tim and Apple) not yourself
What reasoning do you need? Apple's tax arrangements are fairly well documented.
Give a few examples for me - I don't know them - but you do
As I said, it's well documented, easily findable, and has been discussed on this forum many times. I have little interest in a rehash, sorry, I was just responding to the capitalist interrogating me.
I guess you can't find them (if it is easy as you say) so I assume you have no evidence for your thoughts.
I can find it easily enough, the evidence that Apple engage in tax avoidance is not hidden. Even the capitalist accepts it, if he wants Tim Cook to be celebrated for his efforts. It's not my job to do your research for you; if you're genuinely interested then go find it. Try Googling "Apple tax avoidance", I'm sure that'll lead you somewhere.
Otherwise, maybe you're not genuinely interested and are just looking to snipe at me? Sorry dude, I can't be bothered with that crap.
You have all you need, and that's all you're getting from me.
I do apologise for winding you up - I know you cannot produce the evidence I ask for.
It it is an unfair request because it's way too complex to come to any balanced view - especially as it's really the governments around the world who are responsible for the weird unfair tax systems that exist and they are the only ones that can fix it.
Or rather it's us the voters that must demand more tax be paid.
Given the Double Irish arrangement goes back to origins in the late 80's with Apple (and other companies) and Ireland's government offering tax breaks to companies to come there, it's kinda hard to pin this one on Cook. There were a ton of multinationals that used this system (Apple, Alphabet, Facebook, Pfizer, Adobe, Starbucks, Microsoft, Gilead, IBM, J&J, etc etc). It was also discontinued in 2014 after legislation was passed in Ireland, and all those companies still using it at that time had until January 2020 to restructure. So it's not even a thing anymore.
Not sure why this is even being discussed. Every CFO for a large multinational was doing this because you could, and it was legal — until it wasn't. Any CFO (or CEO for that matter) coming into the job and voluntarily changing the tax structure to something less beneficial to the company would be fired.
As far as the US's role in this now, the Biden administration is pushing for a minimum of at least 15% tax worldwide (Ireland is currently 12.5%). Also, companies would be forced to pay a levy on sales in the country in which they are earned, as well as where they have headquarters. G-7 backed this, along with 130 countries that agreed (Ireland and other tax havens have not). We'll see how all this plays out, but the point is that governments make tax law, not corporations.
Tim's got my vote for life-long tenure. I bought a few hundred $K of AAPL before this graph started and just love what Tim has achieved for me, not to mention all the great products we've all enjoyed along the way.
Your experience matches my own. $325k of Apple shares in 2011, in September of 2011 to be exact. I didn’t keep them all but after the two splits I still hold 11,700 shares. And I’ve taken a couple $million out along the way, from the stock and a little more of options trading over these past ten years.
No mention on managing the biggest tax avoidance schema in history, for sure part of his values.
Tax evasion is a crime. Tax avoidance is good business.
So you'd support giving Tim Cook credit for it then?
Absolutely! Apple is using legal loopholes put there by the government, knowingly I might add. There’s nothing illegal, immoral, unethical about it. I myself try to avoid paying any more taxes than I have to. I regularly consult with my financial advisor on ways to reduce my tax liability. Don’t you? Do you ever tell your tax preparer to not take a deduction because of ethical concerns? I’m betting not.
Nope, don’t even have a financial advisor or a tax preparer because I live in a country that doesn’t have a bonkers tax system. My tax comes out my pay and my investment income automatically and I don’t claim any deductions, and have no need or desire to lower my liability.
I don’t think the US government intentionally put in the loopholes that allow the double Irish with an dutch sandwich.
You still take advantage of your allowances even if the company does it on your behalf and I guess this company you work for probably takes advantage of any tax concessions it can - have you tackled your company about it? got to make sure they are ethical or maybe you shouldn't work for them
No mention on managing the biggest tax avoidance schema in history, for sure part of his values.
Tax evasion is a crime. Tax avoidance is good business.
So you'd support giving Tim Cook credit for it then?
Absolutely! Apple is using legal loopholes put there by the government, knowingly I might add. There’s nothing illegal, immoral, unethical about it. I myself try to avoid paying any more taxes than I have to. I regularly consult with my financial advisor on ways to reduce my tax liability. Don’t you? Do you ever tell your tax preparer to not take a deduction because of ethical concerns? I’m betting not.
Nope, don’t even have a financial advisor or a tax preparer because I live in a country that doesn’t have a bonkers tax system. My tax comes out my pay and my investment income automatically and I don’t claim any deductions, and have no need or desire to lower my liability.
I don’t think the US government intentionally put in the loopholes that allow the double Irish with an dutch sandwich.
You still take advantage of your allowances even if the company does it on your behalf and I guess this company you work for probably takes advantage of any tax concessions it can - have you tackled your company about it? got to make sure they are ethical or maybe you shouldn't work for them
@Crowley just keeps digging the hole he’s in deeper and deeper, as all socialists do. What’s yours is theirs.
Nope, no hole, and not a socialist either, just someone who thinks multinational companies and the richest people in the world should stop stiffing the rest of us. Weird that you'd take a political stance against your own interests.
You do know that corporations don’t pay taxes, right? They pass them through to customers in the form of higher prices. So if you want the government to receive more when Apple sells its products you’re welcome to simply write a check to whatever government you like each time you buy an Apple product. Just figure how much extra you should have paid Apple for that product and fill in that number on the check before you send it off to your tax authority.
No mention on managing the biggest tax avoidance schema in history, for sure part of his values.
Tax evasion is a crime. Tax avoidance is good business.
So you'd support giving Tim Cook credit for it then?
Absolutely! Apple is using legal loopholes put there by the government, knowingly I might add. There’s nothing illegal, immoral, unethical about it. I myself try to avoid paying any more taxes than I have to. I regularly consult with my financial advisor on ways to reduce my tax liability. Don’t you? Do you ever tell your tax preparer to not take a deduction because of ethical concerns? I’m betting not.
Nope, don’t even have a financial advisor or a tax preparer because I live in a country that doesn’t have a bonkers tax system. My tax comes out my pay and my investment income automatically and I don’t claim any deductions, and have no need or desire to lower my liability.
I don’t think the US government intentionally put in the loopholes that allow the double Irish with an dutch sandwich.
You still take advantage of your allowances even if the company does it on your behalf and I guess this company you work for probably takes advantage of any tax concessions it can - have you tackled your company about it? got to make sure they are ethical or maybe you shouldn't work for them
No mention on managing the biggest tax avoidance schema in history, for sure part of his values.
Tax evasion is a crime. Tax avoidance is good business.
So you'd support giving Tim Cook credit for it then?
Absolutely! Apple is using legal loopholes put there by the government, knowingly I might add. There’s nothing illegal, immoral, unethical about it. I myself try to avoid paying any more taxes than I have to. I regularly consult with my financial advisor on ways to reduce my tax liability. Don’t you? Do you ever tell your tax preparer to not take a deduction because of ethical concerns? I’m betting not.
Nope, don’t even have a financial advisor or a tax preparer because I live in a country that doesn’t have a bonkers tax system. My tax comes out my pay and my investment income automatically and I don’t claim any deductions, and have no need or desire to lower my liability.
I don’t think the US government intentionally put in the loopholes that allow the double Irish with an dutch sandwich.
You still take advantage of your allowances even if the company does it on your behalf and I guess this company you work for probably takes advantage of any tax concessions it can - have you tackled your company about it? got to make sure they are ethical or maybe you shouldn't work for them
@Crowley just keeps digging the hole he’s in deeper and deeper, as all socialists do. What’s yours is theirs.
Nope, no hole, and not a socialist either, just someone who thinks multinational companies and the richest people in the world should stop stiffing the rest of us. Weird that you'd take a political stance against your own interests.
You do know that corporations don’t pay taxes, right? They pass them through to customers in the form of higher prices. So if you want the government to receive more when Apple sells its products you’re welcome to simply write a check to whatever government you like each time you buy an Apple product. Just figure how much extra you should have paid Apple for that product and fill in that number on the check before you send it off to your tax authority.
Comments
Otherwise, maybe you're not genuinely interested and are just looking to snipe at me? Sorry dude, I can't be bothered with that crap.
You have all you need, and that's all you're getting from me.
It it is an unfair request because it's way too complex to come to any balanced view - especially as it's really the governments around the world who are responsible for the weird unfair tax systems that exist and they are the only ones that can fix it.
Or rather it's us the voters that must demand more tax be paid.
Not sure why this is even being discussed. Every CFO for a large multinational was doing this because you could, and it was legal — until it wasn't. Any CFO (or CEO for that matter) coming into the job and voluntarily changing the tax structure to something less beneficial to the company would be fired.
As far as the US's role in this now, the Biden administration is pushing for a minimum of at least 15% tax worldwide (Ireland is currently 12.5%). Also, companies would be forced to pay a levy on sales in the country in which they are earned, as well as where they have headquarters. G-7 backed this, along with 130 countries that agreed (Ireland and other tax havens have not). We'll see how all this plays out, but the point is that governments make tax law, not corporations.