Apple now looking to tackle car manufacture by itself

AppleInsider

A report suggests that Apple has restarted its internal Apple Car development after it failed to partner with third parties for parts manufacture and assembly.

Apple Car moves back to internal development at Apple

Sources familiar with the matter say that Apple has begun contacting global auto parts manufacturers for part quotes. This is a sign that Apple will select the final parts supplier soon.

The report from Maeil Economic Daily acts as a summary of Apple's car plans so far, but indicates a renewed commitment to internal development. One source says Apple has revived its vehicle development lab that closed in 2016, one that previously housed over 1,000 Project Titan employees.

The refocused effort comes after months of failed negotiations with companies like Hyundai, Nissan, and BMW. Apple had seemingly hoped to outsource the actual production of its Apple Car to an established manufacturer but encountered headwinds due to existing competition in the industry.

Project Titan, the internal name for Apple's autonomous vehicle project, started in earnest in 2014. It began as a vehicle Apple wanted to develop on its own, but by 2016, it appeared Apple had given up on that pursuit entirely.

Apple has reportedly been in contact with various companies since, attempting to find a Foxconn-like partner for its Apple Car project. No major brand wanted to conform itself to Apple's standards, so negotiations have ended.

The electric vehicle industry is fast accelerating, and Apple wants to put its stamp on the market soon. Maeil Economic Daily says the market condition is similar to when Apple entered the smartphone market with iPhone, and it is ripe for disruption.

Apple Car is expected to launch sometime between 2024 and 2027. If Apple can release the vehicle by 2025, it is expected to sell around 1.5 million units by 2030.

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scott6666

If these people can’t make a TV how on earth are they gonna make a car?

daalseth

This is going to dribble along for another decade until it finally fades away producing nothing. It’s become someone’s vanity project. 

elijahg

DAalseth said:

This is going to dribble along for another decade until it finally fades away producing nothing. It’s become someone’s vanity project. 

IMO it’s Cook’s primary legacy, with AppleTV+ as a backup. I don’t believe Apple can set up a manufacturing facility for cars when they have little actual manufacturing experience themselves. They got out of that game in the early 90’s. It took Tesla 10 years to get manufacturing right, and even then it’s not to Apple standards. 

haikus

Do we really need an Apple car? I dislike cars so I may be biased ;-) I understand that for many people cars have a much prominent importance. Nevertheless, I would love Apple to innovate instead of (allegedly) improving something that already exists.

larryjw

scott6666 said:

If these people can’t make a TV how on earth are they gonna make a car?

Of course, Apple can make a TV. So can thousands of others. 

"Can" is never the issue; it's does it make sense, can a company bring something to the market that others have not been able to?

Tesla has mind-share. I'm not so sure Tesla is here for the long term; they don't have much of a track record. They exist by virtue of some unexplainable deification of Elon Musk -- the cult of personality.

What nobody outside of Apple has is any idea about Apple's plans, if any. 

daalseth

Oh that’s right, didn’t the guy leading the project just jump ship for Ford?
https://appleinsider.com/articles/21/09/07/ford-poaches-executive-leading-the-apple-car-project
Maybe he got tired of working for a project that wasn’t producing anything. 

dk49

Why don't they just contract this to Magna? Magna makes cars for almost all top car companies. It's much better than setting up their own manufacturing unit. Hell, even Apple's long term partner Foxconn has entered electric car manufacturing market, so they could look at that too. 

Otherwise we are going to keep hearing about Apple's car ambitions ten years down the line with no clear timeline on the horizon. 

13485

scott6666 said:

If these people can’t make a TV how on earth are they gonna make a car?

Since when were they (Apple) going to make a TV?  That was rumor mill stuff only

DAalseth said:

Oh that’s right, didn’t the guy leading the project just jump ship for Ford?
https://appleinsider.com/articles/21/09/07/ford-poaches-executive-leading-the-apple-car-project
Maybe he got tired of working for a project that wasn’t producing anything. 

And didn't they immediately hire a couple of Porsche and Mercedes Benz engineers/execs? Project is moving forward, leadership hiccups and all.

hmlongco

larryjw said: Tesla has mind-share. I'm not so sure Tesla is here for the long term; they don't have much of a track record. They exist by virtue of some unexplainable deification of Elon Musk -- the cult of personality.

It's not unexplainable. The man tends to get results. Tesla has produced and sold over a million and a half EVs since its inception, single-handedly produced a major electric charing infrastructure, and built (and is building) a global automotive and battery manufacturing empire. Then there's the not so minor accomplishment of pretty much being the only major player in the private reusable rocket space, significantly reducing cost to orbit.

Like Musk or not, those are some pretty noteworthy accomplishments that have totally changed the face of several industries. 

I've done nothing remotely similar, and I suspect that you haven't either...

22july2013

This isn't really about "who makes it," this is really about "who pays the employees." Even if Apple ends up "manufacturing the Apple Car," it will probably still do so outside the USA. Perhaps Mexico or Korea, or perhaps even Canada. (Canada manufactures the Equinox, Chrysler 300, Grand Caravan, Pacifica, Challenger, Charger, Ford GT (!!!!!), Ford Edge, Honda Civic & CR-V, Lexus RX, Lincoln Nautilus, Toyota RAV4. We used to make a lot more than that. Some of the cars we manufacture in Canada are secondary manufacturing locations but some have been exclusive. We used to be the exclusive location for manufacturing all Ford F-150s, if I recall correctly.)

For another example, look at the iPhone. It is physically manufactured in mainland China but the company who pays the employees, Foxconn, is not located in mainland China. (I worded that very carefully for those here who are lovers of the CCP.)

An Apple Car made in Apple's own factory might end up with the following label: "Designed in California. Assembled in Canada." The Apple iPhone probably should say -- unless you are a socialist or communist -- "Designed in California. Assembled in the People's Republic of China by a company located in the Republic of China."

edited September 2021

igorsky

scott6666 said:

If these people can’t make a TV how on earth are they gonna make a car?

This is asinine.  Have they ever confirmed that they were even interested in making a tv?  No, they haven't.

kuyangkoh

For sure your not a Tesla owner for saying something Tesla have done to auto industry and rockets

lam92103

Lol, can't wait till the remove the refueling port, windows & the boot. Then they will call them obsolete and dig their heels in when customers complain.

Apple can't even manage to make a decent laptop line, good luck on the car.

marvin

haikus said:

Do we really need an Apple car? I dislike cars so I may be biased ;-) I understand that for many people cars have a much prominent importance. Nevertheless, I would love Apple to innovate instead of (allegedly) improving something that already exists.

We need something better than what we have. Some people like the idea of a super car:

but this would only be worth doing if they could hit a mass market price point. One thing we definitely need is driverless taxis and if they can look cool at the same time so be it.

A lot of the Apple SVPs have been reported as fans of luxury cars and Steve Jobs was too. Jony Ive's cars are listed here:

https://www.cultofmac.com/254380/jony-ives-cars/

and he was at a design event talking about cars:

If Apple does nothing then the industry won't improve much just like how the smartphone industry was. The car industry today looks like the smartphone industry in 2006 - too many models, nobody making anything that stands above the rest, all overpriced for the experience they offer, which is an experience of necessity rather than contentment.

Some people point to Tesla changing the industry but Tesla cars haven't done to the car industry what the iPhone did to smartphones, they've been going for 18 years and have around 2% marketshare. The car industry will change more slowly due to the high purchase price but even in isolation, a Tesla product doesn't feel significantly better than competing models to the point that it would be hard to choose something other than a Tesla. Tesla has made owning an EV practical, which has some significance but this is like Blackberry making the web accessible on mobile. It was usable but it wasn't the right way to do it. Jony Ive refers to this in the video above saying that innovating is hard because there's no point of reference. Making an innovative car requires rethinking every part that goes into making one based on everything we now know that people use them for. Apple is still the best company that can deliver on this.

edited September 2021

ravnorodom

Project Titan drags forever. I totally understand because it's a car, not a handheld device. So much on their plate: iOS devices, Mac, software, headphones, music, streaming and cars. Stay focus and good luck, Apple.

byronl

i’ve been saying they should do this! they only way they can compete with tesla’s next gen manufacturing techniques!

edited September 2021

byronl

Marvin said:

haikus said:

Do we really need an Apple car? I dislike cars so I may be biased ;-) I understand that for many people cars have a much prominent importance. Nevertheless, I would love Apple to innovate instead of (allegedly) improving something that already exists.

We need something better than what we have. Some people like the idea of a super car:

but this would only be worth doing if they could hit a mass market price point. One thing we definitely need is driverless taxis and if they can look cool at the same time so be it.

A lot of the Apple SVPs have been reported as fans of luxury cars and Steve Jobs was too. Jony Ive's cars are listed here:

https://www.cultofmac.com/254380/jony-ives-cars/

and he was at a design event talking about cars:

If Apple does nothing then the industry won't improve much just like how the smartphone industry was. The car industry today looks like the smartphone industry in 2006 - too many models, nobody making anything that stands above the rest, all overpriced for the experience they offer, which is an experience of necessity rather than contentment.

Some people point to Tesla changing the industry but Tesla cars haven't done to the car industry what the iPhone did to smartphones, they've been going for 18 years and have around 2% marketshare. The car industry will change more slowly due to the high purchase price but even in isolation, a Tesla product doesn't feel significantly better than competing models to the point that it would be hard to choose something other than a Tesla. Tesla has made owning an EV practical, which has some significance but this is like Blackberry making the web accessible on mobile. It was usable but it wasn't the right way to do it. Jony Ive refers to this in the video above saying that innovating is hard because there's no point of reference. Making an innovative car requires rethinking every part that goes into making one based on everything we now know that people use them for. Apple is still the best company that can deliver on this.

“ like Blackberry making the web accessible on mobile. ”
how??? do you own a tesla? most people that own them love them. not only have they made it practical to own an ev but they have the best powertrain technology in the world, best battery technology, best self driving technology, great software on the level of apple and google (automakers’ software has been notoriously bad for a long time) etc.
tesla IS the apple of cars. they are the company that started the transition of the world to ev’s.
i do think apple can make a great car design and user experience but everything else? yea…
also their market share increases significantly every year and they still sell the most ev’s out of everyone (and will continue to). 

elijahg

larryjw said:

scott6666 said:

If these people can’t make a TV how on earth are they gonna make a car?

Of course, Apple can make a TV. So can thousands of others. 

"Can" is never the issue; it's does it make sense, can a company bring something to the market that others have not been able to?

Tesla has mind-share. I'm not so sure Tesla is here for the long term; they don't have much of a track record. They exist by virtue of some unexplainable deification of Elon Musk -- the cult of personality.

What nobody outside of Apple has is any idea about Apple's plans, if any. 

The cult of personality, just like the cult following Jobsian Apple had? The only doubt over Apple’s longevity was when Jobs wasn’t CEO. And much the same for Tesla, if it didn’t have such a charismatic enthusiast at the helm I don’t think it’d have anywhere near the success it does.  

jwsc

byronl said:

Marvin said:

 haikus said:

Do we really need an Apple car? I dislike cars so I may be biased ;-) I understand that for many people cars have a much prominent importance. Nevertheless, I would love Apple to innovate instead of (allegedly) improving something that already exists.

We need something better than what we have. Some people like the idea of a super car:

but this would only be worth doing if they could hit a mass market price point. One thing we definitely need is driverless taxis and if they can look cool at the same time so be it.

A lot of the Apple SVPs have been reported as fans of luxury cars and Steve Jobs was too. Jony Ive's cars are listed here:

https://www.cultofmac.com/254380/jony-ives-cars/

and he was at a design event talking about cars:

If Apple does nothing then the industry won't improve much just like how the smartphone industry was. The car industry today looks like the smartphone industry in 2006 - too many models, nobody making anything that stands above the rest, all overpriced for the experience they offer, which is an experience of necessity rather than contentment.

Some people point to Tesla changing the industry but Tesla cars haven't done to the car industry what the iPhone did to smartphones, they've been going for 18 years and have around 2% marketshare. The car industry will change more slowly due to the high purchase price but even in isolation, a Tesla product doesn't feel significantly better than competing models to the point that it would be hard to choose something other than a Tesla. Tesla has made owning an EV practical, which has some significance but this is like Blackberry making the web accessible on mobile. It was usable but it wasn't the right way to do it. Jony Ive refers to this in the video above saying that innovating is hard because there's no point of reference. Making an innovative car requires rethinking every part that goes into making one based on everything we now know that people use them for. Apple is still the best company that can deliver on this.

“ like Blackberry making the web accessible on mobile. ”
how??? do you own a tesla? most people that own them love them. not only have they made it practical to own an ev but they have the best powertrain technology in the world, best battery technology, best self driving technology, great software on the level of apple and google (automakers’ software has been notoriously bad for a long time) etc.
tesla IS the apple of cars. they are the company that started the transition of the world to ev’s.
i do think apple can make a great car design and user experience but everything else? yea…
also their market share increases significantly every year and they still sell the most ev’s out of everyone (and will continue to). 

Beat me to it in response to Marvin.  Tesla owners are fanatical in their devotion to the cars (recall the days when our favorite fruit company was religiously followed).  Tesla’s market share is going to increase rapidly over the next few years.

I do think that Apple doing this (the manufacturing) themselves is the right way to go at the start.  Apple needs to learn this themselves because it will give them insight into how they need to think about design for manufacture, since they have no direct experience with auto manufacture, assembly, and test.  For this reason alone it is a mistake to rely on anyone else.

Once Apple has groked auto manufacturing, they may be able to subcontract it out to lower costs over time.

edited September 2021

japhey

Marvin said:

haikus said:

Do we really need an Apple car? I dislike cars so I may be biased ;-) I understand that for many people cars have a much prominent importance. Nevertheless, I would love Apple to innovate instead of (allegedly) improving something that already exists.

We need something better than what we have. Some people like the idea of a super car:

but this would only be worth doing if they could hit a mass market price point. One thing we definitely need is driverless taxis and if they can look cool at the same time so be it.

A lot of the Apple SVPs have been reported as fans of luxury cars and Steve Jobs was too. Jony Ive's cars are listed here:

https://www.cultofmac.com/254380/jony-ives-cars/

and he was at a design event talking about cars:

If Apple does nothing then the industry won't improve much just like how the smartphone industry was. The car industry today looks like the smartphone industry in 2006 - too many models, nobody making anything that stands above the rest, all overpriced for the experience they offer, which is an experience of necessity rather than contentment.

Some people point to Tesla changing the industry but Tesla cars haven't done to the car industry what the iPhone did to smartphones, they've been going for 18 years and have around 2% marketshare. The car industry will change more slowly due to the high purchase price but even in isolation, a Tesla product doesn't feel significantly better than competing models to the point that it would be hard to choose something other than a Tesla. Tesla has made owning an EV practical, which has some significance but this is like Blackberry making the web accessible on mobile. It was usable but it wasn't the right way to do it. Jony Ive refers to this in the video above saying that innovating is hard because there's no point of reference. Making an innovative car requires rethinking every part that goes into making one based on everything we now know that people use them for. Apple is still the best company that can deliver on this.

Why do we “definitely need” driverless taxis? How exactly will that improve society? A lot of people rely on those jobs to survive. I think we’ll find that removing the human element from certain things won’t be the utopian experience we think it will be.