TSMC plans new chip factory with Sony in western Japan

Posted:
in General Discussion
Apple chip partner TSMC may work with Sony on a new semiconductor factory in Japan, as part of a $7 billion investment that could start production of chips by 2024.




Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Co is reportedly in talks with Sony Group to potentially construct a semiconductor factory in western Japan. The facility, which could become TSMC's first operation in Japan, is seemingly targeting chip production for automotive purposes, among other uses.

The project is expected to cost around 800 billion yen ($7 billion), sources of Nikkei reveal. The Japanese government is apparently expected to produce up to half of the total investment's value, with Sony potentially taking only a minority stake in the operation.

If approved, the factory will be constructed in Kumamoto Prefecture on land owned by Sony, near to its existing image sensor factory. One of the potential uses for the produced semiconductors is camera image sensors, the sources say, which could lead to the factory working with Sony's nearby facility in some way.

TSMC and Sony may not be the only companies involved in the project. Toyota Motor Group member Denso is allegedly keen to take part, possibly to gain a stable chip supply for auto parts.

Given Apple's connection to TSMC, it's entirely possible that the major customer of the chip foundry could get involved, possibly to secure its own auto chip production for the long-rumored Apple Car.

While the two companies are in talks about the partnership, it seems that there may be some time to wait before the factory becomes usable for production. People familiar with the plans believe it will start operation by 2024.

In theory, the plant may go online towards the expected tail end of the chip shortage, one that is forecast to impact manufacturing for a few years at least. Governments are trying to rectify the problem in various ways, such as the U.S. Innovation and Competition Act, a $250 billion bill aiming to increase funding for domestic semiconductor production.

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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 27
    rob53rob53 Posts: 3,239member
    Is there any way Apple could manufacture major products in the US if TSMC built a semiconductor facility in the US? I know China has the majority of natural resources required for many computers along with a huge labor force but could this actually happen? Not sure it would be financially possible but when almost everything is being attached to a motherboard (iPhone, iPad and Macs), the amount of non-robotic manufacturing has been greatly reduced. Just a thought for no other reason that possibly reducing the amount of IP theft and a reduction of import duties.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 2 of 27
    robabarobaba Posts: 228member
    TSMC HAS production in the US, and more on the way, but the industrial base isn’t here any more.
    baconstangGeorgeBMacvedelppawatto_cobra
  • Reply 3 of 27
    The previous US presidency started this drive to invite industry back to the country. But why was this started so late? I mean, the shit was already deep into the fan, and building a functional manufacturing industry takes a very long time. Naivism; underestimating China? Fear of confronting China?
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 4 of 27
    The previous US presidency started this drive to invite industry back to the country. But why was this started so late? I mean, the shit was already deep into the fan, and building a functional manufacturing industry takes a very long time. Naivism; underestimating China? Fear of confronting China?
    A lot of people naively thought that if we built up China’s economy and made China a rich nation, then China would naturally become a democratic country because the people would demand it. Unfortunately, as China is getting richer, the government is becoming even more authoritarian. Oops!
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 5 of 27
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    The previous US presidency started this drive to invite industry back to the country. But why was this started so late? I mean, the shit was already deep into the fan, and building a functional manufacturing industry takes a very long time. Naivism; underestimating China? Fear of confronting China?

    U.S. manufacturing moved out of the U.S. 40-50 years ago in the 70's and 80's -- steel, cars, electronics, etc... and ancillary and associated industries followed.   But they didn't go to China.  It went to Japan.  But now we blame China -- which makes us look silly.

    In 1986 I was working for a major, vertically integrated U.S. steel company but was recruited to work for its sister company, an IT start up.  My angry boss asked me:  "What are you going to do when they close down?".   I responded by asking him what he was going to do when National Steel shut down.  He scoffed.  But a couple years later it was sold to NKK -- a Japanese company and he was out of a job.  Likewise, Toyota and Honda decimated the U.S. auto industry while Sony and Panasonic drove Zenith, Emerson, RCA, Westinghouse & GE out of the electronics business.   Later, South Korea conquered the home appliance market.

    We never came to grips with the issues that, despite protective tariffs, drove our manufacturing out of the country -- while China was an impoverished, agrarian, rice eating society.   But yeh, let's blame China.

    The U.S. needs to stop making excuses, examine why our industries left the country back then and figure out how to correct the problem(s) that shut down U.S. manufacturing.
    edited October 2021 muthuk_vanalingamrusswpumpkin_kingAlex_Vwhatever101vedelppanadrielwatto_cobra
  • Reply 6 of 27
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    The previous US presidency started this drive to invite industry back to the country. But why was this started so late? I mean, the shit was already deep into the fan, and building a functional manufacturing industry takes a very long time. Naivism; underestimating China? Fear of confronting China?
    A lot of people naively thought that if we built up China’s economy and made China a rich nation, then China would naturally become a democratic country because the people would demand it. Unfortunately, as China is getting richer, the government is becoming even more authoritarian. Oops!

    Except American industries didn't go to China.   They went to Japan and South Korea 40-50 years ago -- THEN, in later decades, they migrated to China.   But, Americans are just now catching on....
    muthuk_vanalingamvedelppa
  • Reply 7 of 27
    The previous US presidency started this drive to invite industry back to the country. But why was this started so late? I mean, the shit was already deep into the fan, and building a functional manufacturing industry takes a very long time. Naivism; underestimating China? Fear of confronting China?
    A lot of people naively thought that if we built up China’s economy and made China a rich nation, then China would naturally become a democratic country because the people would demand it. Unfortunately, as China is getting richer, the government is becoming even more authoritarian. Oops!

    Except American industries didn't go to China.   They went to Japan and South Korea 40-50 years ago -- THEN, in later decades, they migrated to China.   But, Americans are just now catching on....
    In the 80s, American car buyers were forced to buy thrift Japanese cars due to high gas prices. Detroit suffered a lot. US government coerced Japan to manufacture cars in US. The result is Japan economy stagnated since then. Their companies set up plants all over the world. Samsung also manufacturing electronics in China now. This is a global thing. China just happen to be the better place to do manufacturing. This is pure business. Unfortunately there are many people trying to use politics to influence business. And this is authoritarian. 
    Alex_V
  • Reply 8 of 27
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    The previous US presidency started this drive to invite industry back to the country. But why was this started so late? I mean, the shit was already deep into the fan, and building a functional manufacturing industry takes a very long time. Naivism; underestimating China? Fear of confronting China?
    A lot of people naively thought that if we built up China’s economy and made China a rich nation, then China would naturally become a democratic country because the people would demand it. Unfortunately, as China is getting richer, the government is becoming even more authoritarian. Oops!

    Except American industries didn't go to China.   They went to Japan and South Korea 40-50 years ago -- THEN, in later decades, they migrated to China.   But, Americans are just now catching on....
    In the 80s, American car buyers were forced to buy thrift Japanese cars due to high gas prices. Detroit suffered a lot. US government coerced Japan to manufacture cars in US. The result is Japan economy stagnated since then. Their companies set up plants all over the world. Samsung also manufacturing electronics in China now. This is a global thing. China just happen to be the better place to do manufacturing. This is pure business. Unfortunately there are many people trying to use politics to influence business. And this is authoritarian. 
    No, not at all...
    The gas crisis was in the early 70's.  And yeh, at that time Japanese cars were small, compacts -- unlike the American chrome plated behemoths.  But that was in the infancy of the switch to Japanese cars.

    By the 80's, American manufacturers ackowledged that Japanese cars were of high quality than what they had been making and tried to switch over to what they called "World Class Cars" and emulate or duplicate Japanese manufacturing processes - even their management techniques.  But they were junk.  It was the last time I bought an American car -- they (at least the one I had, an Oldsmobile Firenza) was a bigger piece of junk than what they had made previously.
    slow n easyAlex_Vwhatever101nadrielwatto_cobra
  • Reply 9 of 27
    The previous US presidency started this drive to invite industry back to the country. But why was this started so late? I mean, the shit was already deep into the fan, and building a functional manufacturing industry takes a very long time. Naivism; underestimating China? Fear of confronting China?
    A lot of people naively thought that if we built up China’s economy and made China a rich nation, then China would naturally become a democratic country because the people would demand it. Unfortunately, as China is getting richer, the government is becoming even more authoritarian. Oops!

    Except American industries didn't go to China.   They went to Japan and South Korea 40-50 years ago -- THEN, in later decades, they migrated to China.   But, Americans are just now catching on....
    I never heard 40-50 years ago about American jobs moving to Japan. I heard about Japanese products such as cars, motorcycles, TV’s, etc. replacing American products but I never heard about for example GM building a plant in Japan. I don’t think Japan would allow that to happen and it’s only a small island country so there isn’t room for foreigners coming in and building large scale manufacturing plants. I definitely never heard of U.S. manufacturing going to South Korea to any great extent which is also a very small country. And South Korean products coming here really wasn’t happening much 40-50 years ago. However, I totally agree with everything you posted at 1:49pm.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 10 of 27
    The previous US presidency started this drive to invite industry back to the country. But why was this started so late? I mean, the shit was already deep into the fan, and building a functional manufacturing industry takes a very long time. Naivism; underestimating China? Fear of confronting China?
    A lot of people naively thought that if we built up China’s economy and made China a rich nation, then China would naturally become a democratic country because the people would demand it. Unfortunately, as China is getting richer, the government is becoming even more authoritarian. Oops!

    Except American industries didn't go to China.   They went to Japan and South Korea 40-50 years ago -- THEN, in later decades, they migrated to China.   But, Americans are just now catching on....
    In the 80s, American car buyers were forced to buy thrift Japanese cars due to high gas prices. Detroit suffered a lot. US government coerced Japan to manufacture cars in US. The result is Japan economy stagnated since then. Their companies set up plants all over the world. Samsung also manufacturing electronics in China now. This is a global thing. China just happen to be the better place to do manufacturing. This is pure business. Unfortunately there are many people trying to use politics to influence business. And this is authoritarian. 
    No, not at all...
    The gas crisis was in the early 70's.  And yeh, at that time Japanese cars were small, compacts -- unlike the American chrome plated behemoths.  But that was in the infancy of the switch to Japanese cars.

    By the 80's, American manufacturers ackowledged that Japanese cars were of high quality than what they had been making and tried to switch over to what they called "World Class Cars" and emulate or duplicate Japanese manufacturing processes - even their management techniques.  But they were junk.  It was the last time I bought an American car -- they (at least the one I had, an Oldsmobile Firenza) was a bigger piece of junk than what they had made previously.
    There are American cultivated talents moving to Taiwan. TSMC is an example. TSMC is still largely held by foreign capital. 
    Alex_V
  • Reply 11 of 27
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    The previous US presidency started this drive to invite industry back to the country. But why was this started so late? I mean, the shit was already deep into the fan, and building a functional manufacturing industry takes a very long time. Naivism; underestimating China? Fear of confronting China?
    A lot of people naively thought that if we built up China’s economy and made China a rich nation, then China would naturally become a democratic country because the people would demand it. Unfortunately, as China is getting richer, the government is becoming even more authoritarian. Oops!

    Except American industries didn't go to China.   They went to Japan and South Korea 40-50 years ago -- THEN, in later decades, they migrated to China.   But, Americans are just now catching on....
    I never heard 40-50 years ago about American jobs moving to Japan. I heard about Japanese products such as cars, motorcycles, TV’s, etc. replacing American products but I never heard about for example GM building a plant in Japan. I don’t think Japan would allow that to happen and it’s only a small island country so there isn’t room for foreigners coming in and building large scale manufacturing plants. I definitely never heard of U.S. manufacturing going to South Korea to any great extent which is also a very small country. And South Korean products coming here really wasn’t happening much 40-50 years ago. However, I totally agree with everything you posted at 1:49pm.
    That's true, American manufacturers didn't migrate to Japan.  They just went out of business.  While Japanese manufacturers took over the markets.
    More exactly, the American steel & electronics industries essentially disappeared while the auto industry was just a shell of its former proud self and, it just sort of hung on till the 2008 recession when they reorganized and dumped a lot of their debt (which the government picked up).  But it's important to realize that those industries had spawned a slew of side industries to support them -- and they also went under.

    Here in Pittsburgh, a very pleasant, visible reminder are the hundreds of miles of groomed bike trails we have -- remnants of the railroads that fed coal to the steel mills.  Most of the rest of it like Mesta Machine and Continental Can are now shopping malls and parking lots.

    Later, smaller, ancillary industries like bicycles and such either went out of business or contracted with foreign manufacturers to make their stuff -- much like Apple does today.   But the trigger was the loss of American basic industries.

    Alex_Vnadriel
  • Reply 12 of 27
    danoxdanox Posts: 2,757member
    The previous US presidency started this drive to invite industry back to the country. But why was this started so late? I mean, the shit was already deep into the fan, and building a functional manufacturing industry takes a very long time. Naivism; underestimating China? Fear of confronting China?
    The American tradition of the endless search for slave non-union labor, China or Korea has nothing to do with that (the decision by the American CEO).
    edited October 2021 Alex_VvedelppaGeorgeBMacrobaba
  • Reply 13 of 27
    danoxdanox Posts: 2,757member
    The previous US presidency started this drive to invite industry back to the country. But why was this started so late? I mean, the shit was already deep into the fan, and building a functional manufacturing industry takes a very long time. Naivism; underestimating China? Fear of confronting China?
    A lot of people naively thought that if we built up China’s economy and made China a rich nation, then China would naturally become a democratic country because the people would demand it. Unfortunately, as China is getting richer, the government is becoming even more authoritarian. Oops!

    Except American industries didn't go to China.   They went to Japan and South Korea 40-50 years ago -- THEN, in later decades, they migrated to China.   But, Americans are just now catching on....
    In the 80s, American car buyers were forced to buy thrift Japanese cars due to high gas prices. Detroit suffered a lot. US government coerced Japan to manufacture cars in US. The result is Japan economy stagnated since then. Their companies set up plants all over the world. Samsung also manufacturing electronics in China now. This is a global thing. China just happen to be the better place to do manufacturing. This is pure business. Unfortunately there are many people trying to use politics to influence business. And this is authoritarian. 

    The Japanese, Germans, and the Koreans currently make better cars in all price ranges, performance, fit and finish…My last American car was a Ford Mustang.
    edited October 2021 Alex_VGeorgeBMac
  • Reply 14 of 27
    danoxdanox Posts: 2,757member
    The previous US presidency started this drive to invite industry back to the country. But why was this started so late? I mean, the shit was already deep into the fan, and building a functional manufacturing industry takes a very long time. Naivism; underestimating China? Fear of confronting China?
    A lot of people naively thought that if we built up China’s economy and made China a rich nation, then China would naturally become a democratic country because the people would demand it. Unfortunately, as China is getting richer, the government is becoming even more authoritarian. Oops!
    1.3 Billion people means you can’t be nice, making stuff in Asia isn’t a bad thing, but making all of it in low slave wage areas exclusively is where the problem lies. Korea, Japan, Germany don’t sell out everything like the UK, or the USA have in the last 60 years.
  • Reply 15 of 27
    danoxdanox Posts: 2,757member
    robaba said:
    TSMC HAS production in the US, and more on the way, but the industrial base isn’t here any more.
    Excuses are like……everyone has one.
  • Reply 16 of 27
    steven n.steven n. Posts: 1,229member
    danox said:
    The previous US presidency started this drive to invite industry back to the country. But why was this started so late? I mean, the shit was already deep into the fan, and building a functional manufacturing industry takes a very long time. Naivism; underestimating China? Fear of confronting China?
    A lot of people naively thought that if we built up China’s economy and made China a rich nation, then China would naturally become a democratic country because the people would demand it. Unfortunately, as China is getting richer, the government is becoming even more authoritarian. Oops!

    Except American industries didn't go to China.   They went to Japan and South Korea 40-50 years ago -- THEN, in later decades, they migrated to China.   But, Americans are just now catching on....
    In the 80s, American car buyers were forced to buy thrift Japanese cars due to high gas prices. Detroit suffered a lot. US government coerced Japan to manufacture cars in US. The result is Japan economy stagnated since then. Their companies set up plants all over the world. Samsung also manufacturing electronics in China now. This is a global thing. China just happen to be the better place to do manufacturing. This is pure business. Unfortunately there are many people trying to use politics to influence business. And this is authoritarian. 

    The Japanese, Germans, and the Koreans currently make better cars in all price ranges, performance, fit and finish…My last American car was a Ford Mustang.
    I would say that was true until Tesla came along. They are a serious threat to VW Group, GM, Ford and Toyota. 
    thtrussw
  • Reply 17 of 27
    steven n. said:
    danox said:
    The previous US presidency started this drive to invite industry back to the country. But why was this started so late? I mean, the shit was already deep into the fan, and building a functional manufacturing industry takes a very long time. Naivism; underestimating China? Fear of confronting China?
    A lot of people naively thought that if we built up China’s economy and made China a rich nation, then China would naturally become a democratic country because the people would demand it. Unfortunately, as China is getting richer, the government is becoming even more authoritarian. Oops!

    Except American industries didn't go to China.   They went to Japan and South Korea 40-50 years ago -- THEN, in later decades, they migrated to China.   But, Americans are just now catching on....
    In the 80s, American car buyers were forced to buy thrift Japanese cars due to high gas prices. Detroit suffered a lot. US government coerced Japan to manufacture cars in US. The result is Japan economy stagnated since then. Their companies set up plants all over the world. Samsung also manufacturing electronics in China now. This is a global thing. China just happen to be the better place to do manufacturing. This is pure business. Unfortunately there are many people trying to use politics to influence business. And this is authoritarian. 

    The Japanese, Germans, and the Koreans currently make better cars in all price ranges, performance, fit and finish…My last American car was a Ford Mustang.
    I would say that was true until Tesla came along. They are a serious threat to VW Group, GM, Ford and Toyota. 
    I would very much love to own a Tesla but I'm worried about the quality. I'm hearing that they are not very reliable. Also I'm holding out for Wireless CarPlay. So I'm thinking I will be buying one more ICE vehicle before I switch to electric. Right now I'm strongly considering the Civic Type-R.
    nadriel
  • Reply 18 of 27
    I do agree with most of the comments made here. But the big question is not who was to blame for the manufacturing industry moving out. Rather, I wonder why it took so long for politicians to react to reestablish it.

    Because there are huge risks for any country in being so entirely dependent on a totalitarian regime; financially, medically, military etc. And this is what puts China in a whole other class than the other countries mentioned here, who are basically just business competitors.

    And I don’t mean politics should necessarily interfere with business. There are other ways, such as tax advantages etc. But for the better of the country’s safety this can not just be left to the open market to solve. It requires political action, and it should have been taken a long time ago.

    Now the country is losing the safety game too, on top of the business game. And the enemies of the US will definitely try to take advantage of that, because they are well aware of this trap the country is caught in. How could this have been missed for so long? And we’ve all known for ages that this is the way China goes to war. They control politics, business, market, people …all of it.
    edited October 2021
  • Reply 19 of 27
    MacProMacPro Posts: 19,712member
    steven n. said:
    danox said:
    The previous US presidency started this drive to invite industry back to the country. But why was this started so late? I mean, the shit was already deep into the fan, and building a functional manufacturing industry takes a very long time. Naivism; underestimating China? Fear of confronting China?
    A lot of people naively thought that if we built up China’s economy and made China a rich nation, then China would naturally become a democratic country because the people would demand it. Unfortunately, as China is getting richer, the government is becoming even more authoritarian. Oops!

    Except American industries didn't go to China.   They went to Japan and South Korea 40-50 years ago -- THEN, in later decades, they migrated to China.   But, Americans are just now catching on....
    In the 80s, American car buyers were forced to buy thrift Japanese cars due to high gas prices. Detroit suffered a lot. US government coerced Japan to manufacture cars in US. The result is Japan economy stagnated since then. Their companies set up plants all over the world. Samsung also manufacturing electronics in China now. This is a global thing. China just happen to be the better place to do manufacturing. This is pure business. Unfortunately there are many people trying to use politics to influence business. And this is authoritarian. 

    The Japanese, Germans, and the Koreans currently make better cars in all price ranges, performance, fit and finish…My last American car was a Ford Mustang.
    I would say that was true until Tesla came along. They are a serious threat to VW Group, GM, Ford and Toyota. 
    I would very much love to own a Tesla but I'm worried about the quality. I'm hearing that they are not very reliable. Also I'm holding out for Wireless CarPlay. So I'm thinking I will be buying one more ICE vehicle before I switch to electric. Right now I'm strongly considering the Civic Type-R.
    Wireless CarPlay is a no brainer IMHO.  I have it with an after market Pioneer head  I put in a Jeep I own,  It is superb.  My new Jaguar still only has wired USB connections, it's archaic compared to wireless.
  • Reply 20 of 27
    The previous US presidency started this drive to invite industry back to the country. But why was this started so late? I mean, the shit was already deep into the fan, and building a functional manufacturing industry takes a very long time. Naivism; underestimating China? Fear of confronting China?
    A lot of people naively thought that if we built up China’s economy and made China a rich nation, then China would naturally become a democratic country because the people would demand it. Unfortunately, as China is getting richer, the government is becoming even more authoritarian. Oops!

    Except American industries didn't go to China.   They went to Japan and South Korea 40-50 years ago -- THEN, in later decades, they migrated to China.   But, Americans are just now catching on....
    I never heard 40-50 years ago about American jobs moving to Japan. I heard about Japanese products such as cars, motorcycles, TV’s, etc. replacing American products but I never heard about for example GM building a plant in Japan. I don’t think Japan would allow that to happen and it’s only a small island country so there isn’t room for foreigners coming in and building large scale manufacturing plants. I definitely never heard of U.S. manufacturing going to South Korea to any great extent which is also a very small country. And South Korean products coming here really wasn’t happening much 40-50 years ago. However, I totally agree with everything you posted at 1:49pm.
    I don't think you are trolling so will reply... it isn't that they physically moved American's in jobs to Japan, China etc. It is that when those countries successfully took over those industries those jobs in America disappeared. In effect meaning those jobs where lost to those nations or another way to say it.. the job was moved to those countries. 
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