It could take decades to regulate big tech

Posted:
in General Discussion
The fight between the U.S. government and big tech companies like Apple, Facebook, and Google could take years to progress, with efforts to curtail the activities of the multinational organizations expected to progress at a glacial pace.




Big tech has seen more intense criticism in the last week courtesy of Facebook whistleblower Frances Haugen, in an argument that underlined the need for closer scrutiny of the firms at the top of the tech industry. However, the fight to regulate those companies will be a long and drawn-out affair, with various hurdles in the way of progress.

Framed as a "Big Tobacco moment" by Senator Richard Blumenthal, the leak has prompted for calls for Congress to focus on regulatory measures that impact Facebook and further afield. These ideas include removing some protections from tech companies to penalize the amplification of hateful speech, writes the New York Times, to forcing more disclosure on data usage and algorithms, and even the creation of a new federal agency.

However, the vast funds available to tech companies could be used to fund a giant army of lobbyists to push lawmakers in preferred directions. The reach is already evident, with many privacy bills killed in Congress by such efforts.

In the case of Apple, it was revealed on September 1 that the company spent around $4.1 million on lobbying European Union institutions to fend off antitrust investigations into its business.

Meanwhile, an investigation published on September 8 revealed Apple was "aggressive" in its lobbying tactics to sway opinion in various states, combatting proposed legislation that could've potentially affected the App Store.

According to Harvard professor Allan Brandt, an expert on the history of the tobacco industry's tactics against regulatory measures, Facebook "took a big hit this week, but they are capable of taking many hits just as the tobacco industry was."

Pointing out that it took more than 50 years from when research into the dangers of cigarettes was first published, and ten years after a similar internal documents leak by a whistleblower, before meaningful government regulation was made, Brandt doubts much will happen in the near future.

"There will be regulation for Facebook and other tech companies, but I'm skeptical of a route to successful regulation anytime soon."

The different views of Democrat and Republicans on how to handle speech on tech platforms could also be an impediment, with concerns over the spread of misinformation, privacy, and censorship varying across the aisle. Similar concerns are also made about using antitrust regulation as a means of control, as there's a difference of opinion over competition and if it is the right toolset to use in the first place.

According to Blumenthal, he saw the Facebook documents leak as important, in part due to his previous experience as attorney general of Connecticut suing Big Tobacco in the 1990's. "It was a lightbulb, and all the memories came back of the strategy papers done by tobacco companies on reaching middle schoolers," he offered.

"It was like you could just rearrange the words and substitute it with tobacco," the Senator added, before advising that tech differs from tobacco in that broad legal protections prevent state attorneys general from performing similar legal actions to what happened three decades ago.

Blumenthal seemingly predicted to the report that the change will be slow, stating "This battle won't be fought in the courtroom."

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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 32
    lmasanti said:
    I won't say that ‘big tech are different each other’ o ‘all are the same’… but for me there is a big difference between a big tech as Apple —as an example— that you pay $1,000- for the device… and a big tech as Facebook/Google/etc. that just ‘take your privacy and data as payment’ —and yes, we ‘also decide to use them’—.
    Yes and no.... in the privacy aspect sure although only cause Apple failed in the ad and social media markets. Let's not forget Apple launched products in both spaces, they just happened to fail. But they certainly lobby for other toxic elements such as anti-competitive tactics in the app store, the fighting of right to repair. You could also make a pretty strong argument about the addictive nature of there products (there is a reason for those little red icons among others) but no one seems ready for that conversation yet. 
    gatorguyelijahgKTR
  • Reply 2 of 32
    KTRKTR Posts: 280member
    It’s we the people that decides we WE. Want to become big.  It’s not you the government, that makes the decision for us.  Remember vhs vs batamax ?

    watto_cobra
  • Reply 3 of 32
    lkrupplkrupp Posts: 10,557member
    Who determines what misinformation/disinformation is? Politicians?
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 4 of 32
    sdw2001sdw2001 Posts: 18,016member
    The entire article is written from a false premise.   

    According to Harvard professor Allan Brandt, an expert on the history of the tobacco industry's tactics against regulatory measures, Facebook "took a big hit this week, but they are capable of taking many hits just as the tobacco industry was."

    I'll say it again:  Facebook, Twitter et al WANT regulation.  One political party, most of the media and Big Tech are all the same monster.  They are saying the quiet part out loud now.."the problem isn't that Facebook takes down too many posts, it's that it leaves too many up."   

    Look at YouTube's recent demonetization of all climate skeptic content.  Try to discuss anything other than how great vaccines and masks are at combatting coronavirus.  This is about government finding a way to regulate speech, something it needs Big Tech to do. And Blumenthal?  He's an absolute moron.  Search "Blumenthal Finsta" and see what you find.  

    The answer is more speech, not less.  Make viewpoint discrimination illegal.  Prohibit these platforms from restricting speech that is not targeted harassment, inciting illegal activity, violations of the law, etc.  Protect children from Big Tech's obvious targeting of them.  

    williamlondonwatto_cobra
  • Reply 5 of 32
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    Bosa said:
    When we have a current government under joe Biden  that bombs 7 little kids and tell people the kids were ISIS leaders, I would just say please leave google and Apple alone!

    they are doing things right much better than you moron politicians

    Yeh, 7 kids died.  Why are you not outraged at the 700,000 Americans his predecessor killed?

    Oh yeh, partisan politics that is not focused on making the country better but on attacking and tearing down "the enemy" -- the opposite American political party.
  • Reply 6 of 32
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    KTR said:
    It’s we the people that decides we WE. Want to become big.  It’s not you the government, that makes the decision for us.  Remember vhs vs batamax ?


    Do you remember Rockefeller who cornered the oil industry, was more powerful than the president -- and used his power to drive any and all competition out of business?

    Do you remember Henry Clay Frick who gunned down steel workers who wanted liveable wages and an end to working 12 hour days 6 days a week?

    That's why government sometimes needs to, as you call it, "make the decisions".
    Remember:  The government is us.   Corporations are them.
    thtmuthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 7 of 32
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    lkrupp said:
    Who determines what misinformation/disinformation is? Politicians?

    Somebody has to.  It's destroying the nation and its democracy.  Putin used to choose our president for us. Now others are using it for similar purposes.

    So, who would you suggest?  Zuckerberg?
    argonautthtmuthuk_vanalingamwatto_cobra
  • Reply 8 of 32
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    sdw2001 said:
    The entire article is written from a false premise.   

    According to Harvard professor Allan Brandt, an expert on the history of the tobacco industry's tactics against regulatory measures, Facebook "took a big hit this week, but they are capable of taking many hits just as the tobacco industry was."
    ....  This is about government finding a way to regulate speech, ...

    No, this is about finding a way regulate false and misleading speech that is being used to damage the country, its democracy and its people.

    We need to defend ourselves against these attacks.
    argonauttht
  • Reply 9 of 32
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    The idea of "regulating big tech" -- glomming all large tech companies together as some inherent evil, pretty much says it all:  The emphasis is on regulation rather than identifying a problem and looking for the best way to remedy that problem. 

    Unconstrained capitalism can be bad.  Very bad.
    Unconstrained regulation can be equally bad.

    Here is the Chinese approach:
    "The tech companies have been the economic stars of the last decade, driving an extraordinary process of dynamic change. The Chinese economy would not be where it is now without them. And there is a serious risk in seeking to regulate and tame them, that it curbs their creativity and relentless innovation. That is the danger. But there is an even greater risk in not acting: the creation at the heart of the economy of unbridled monopoly power which discriminates against small and medium-sized enterprises, which privatizes a huge expanse of data that should be at the service of society, and which, through anti-competitive practices, undermines the market and weakens the position of the consumer."

    The two approaches makes on wonder which country is Capitalist and which is Communist.

    The American approach:  "We need to regulate Big Tech"
    The Chinese approach is a balanced approach to alleviate problems while causing minimal harm.  It lays out the problems that it sees and plans to remedy rather than rushing headlong into "regulating" something for the sake of regulation.

    edited October 2021 FileMakerFeller
  • Reply 10 of 32
    sdw2001sdw2001 Posts: 18,016member
    Bosa said:
    When we have a current government under joe Biden  that bombs 7 little kids and tell people the kids were ISIS leaders, I would just say please leave google and Apple alone!

    they are doing things right much better than you moron politicians

    Yeh, 7 kids died.  Why are you not outraged at the 700,000 Americans his predecessor killed?

    Oh yeh, partisan politics that is not focused on making the country better but on attacking and tearing down "the enemy" -- the opposite American political party.
    His comment was off topic, partisan and somewhat gratuitous (though, accurate).  Yours is ridiculous and hypocritical.  First you claim that Orange Man "killed" 700,000 people. In the next sentence, you complain about partisan politics tearing down the enemy above all else.  
    gatorguywilliamlondonwatto_cobra
  • Reply 11 of 32
    sdw2001sdw2001 Posts: 18,016member
    sdw2001 said:
    The entire article is written from a false premise.   

    According to Harvard professor Allan Brandt, an expert on the history of the tobacco industry's tactics against regulatory measures, Facebook "took a big hit this week, but they are capable of taking many hits just as the tobacco industry was."
    ....  This is about government finding a way to regulate speech, ...

    No, this is about finding a way regulate false and misleading speech that is being used to damage the country, its democracy and its people.

    We need to defend ourselves against these attacks.
    The government has no right to regulate false and misleading speech.  False and misleading speech is protected, just as most "hate speech" is.  And there you go again with framing people's social media opinions as an "attack on democracy."   I guess you think Jan 6th was worse than 9/11, too.  
    williamlondonwatto_cobra
  • Reply 12 of 32
    sdw2001sdw2001 Posts: 18,016member
    The idea of "regulating big tech" -- glomming all large tech companies together as some inherent evil, pretty much says it all:  The emphasis is on regulation rather than identifying a problem and looking for the best way to remedy that problem. 

    Unconstrained capitalism can be bad.  Very bad.
    Unconstrained regulation can be equally bad.

    Here is the Chinese approach:
    "The tech companies have been the economic stars of the last decade, driving an extraordinary process of dynamic change. The Chinese economy would not be where it is now without them. And there is a serious risk in seeking to regulate and tame them, that it curbs their creativity and relentless innovation. That is the danger. But there is an even greater risk in not acting: the creation at the heart of the economy of unbridled monopoly power which discriminates against small and medium-sized enterprises, which privatizes a huge expanse of data that should be at the service of society, and which, through anti-competitive practices, undermines the market and weakens the position of the consumer."

    The two approaches makes on wonder which country is Capitalist and which is Communist.

    The American approach:  "We need to regulate Big Tech"
    The Chinese approach is a balanced approach to alleviate problems while causing minimal harm.  It lays out the problems that it sees and plans to remedy rather than rushing headlong into "regulating" something for the sake of regulation.

    The Chinese approach is the CCP owning everything, no matter what the name on the door says.  You heaping praise on it shows your utter ignorance of their system.  
    williamlondonlkruppwatto_cobra
  • Reply 13 of 32
    lkrupp said:
    Who determines what misinformation/disinformation is? Politicians?

    These links consider the question:
    Who Knows, Who Decides, and Who Decides Who Decides - LDH Consulting Services
    Shoshana Zuboff on surveillance capitalism | VPRO Documentary

    Is the derivative information more valuable than any hard data collected...?
    Does the most verifiable AI come from a trusted ecosystem ?

    edited October 2021
  • Reply 14 of 32
    22july201322july2013 Posts: 3,586member
    I defend GBM's right to speak anything he wants in these posts free from government censorship. He's allowed to defend and support the dictators of 2020 China or 1940 Germany without being censored by the US government. However he could be censored by AppleInsider, which isn't bound by the first amendment, and I would support AI for censoring him.
    RudolfGottfriedgatorguywatto_cobra
  • Reply 15 of 32
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    sdw2001 said:
    Bosa said:
    When we have a current government under joe Biden  that bombs 7 little kids and tell people the kids were ISIS leaders, I would just say please leave google and Apple alone!

    they are doing things right much better than you moron politicians

    Yeh, 7 kids died.  Why are you not outraged at the 700,000 Americans his predecessor killed?

    Oh yeh, partisan politics that is not focused on making the country better but on attacking and tearing down "the enemy" -- the opposite American political party.
    His comment was off topic, partisan and somewhat gratuitous (though, accurate).  Yours is ridiculous and hypocritical.  First you claim that Orange Man "killed" 700,000 people. In the next sentence, you complain about partisan politics tearing down the enemy above all else.  

    Just responding in kind.   Why do you have a problem with that?


  • Reply 16 of 32
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    sdw2001 said:
    sdw2001 said:
    The entire article is written from a false premise.   

    According to Harvard professor Allan Brandt, an expert on the history of the tobacco industry's tactics against regulatory measures, Facebook "took a big hit this week, but they are capable of taking many hits just as the tobacco industry was."
    ....  This is about government finding a way to regulate speech, ...

    No, this is about finding a way regulate false and misleading speech that is being used to damage the country, its democracy and its people.

    We need to defend ourselves against these attacks.
    The government has no right to regulate false and misleading speech.  False and misleading speech is protected, just as most "hate speech" is.  And there you go again with framing people's social media opinions as an "attack on democracy."   I guess you think Jan 6th was worse than 9/11, too.  

    The government has an obligation to protect the country, its democracy and its people from all attacks whether you like it or not.

    But in addition to trying to justify disinformation and hate speech you're also trying to marginalize the attack on our Capitol?   Seriously?  


    muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 17 of 32
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    sdw2001 said:
    The idea of "regulating big tech" -- glomming all large tech companies together as some inherent evil, pretty much says it all:  The emphasis is on regulation rather than identifying a problem and looking for the best way to remedy that problem. 

    Unconstrained capitalism can be bad.  Very bad.
    Unconstrained regulation can be equally bad.

    Here is the Chinese approach:
    "The tech companies have been the economic stars of the last decade, driving an extraordinary process of dynamic change. The Chinese economy would not be where it is now without them. And there is a serious risk in seeking to regulate and tame them, that it curbs their creativity and relentless innovation. That is the danger. But there is an even greater risk in not acting: the creation at the heart of the economy of unbridled monopoly power which discriminates against small and medium-sized enterprises, which privatizes a huge expanse of data that should be at the service of society, and which, through anti-competitive practices, undermines the market and weakens the position of the consumer."

    The two approaches makes on wonder which country is Capitalist and which is Communist.

    The American approach:  "We need to regulate Big Tech"
    The Chinese approach is a balanced approach to alleviate problems while causing minimal harm.  It lays out the problems that it sees and plans to remedy rather than rushing headlong into "regulating" something for the sake of regulation.

    The Chinese approach is the CCP owning everything, no matter what the name on the door says.  You heaping praise on it shows your utter ignorance of their system.  

    You obviously didn't read what they said.  
    You're just spewing out more angry garbage.
  • Reply 18 of 32
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    Bosa said:
    When we have a current government under joe Biden  that bombs 7 little kids and tell people the kids were ISIS leaders, I would just say please leave google and Apple alone!

    they are doing things right much better than you moron politicians

    Yeh, 7 kids died.  Why are you not outraged at the 700,000 Americans his predecessor killed?

    Oh yeh, partisan politics that is not focused on making the country better but on attacking and tearing down "the enemy" -- the opposite American political party.
    You're the living proof that TDS makes people not only completely dumb but, take one your moronic comparison between China's policies and those of the US, turning she into mindless bots for inhuman dictatorships. Dude, get treated. Immediately. 

    I am obviously not the deranged one here.
  • Reply 19 of 32
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    I defend GBM's right to speak anything he wants in these posts free from government censorship. He's allowed to defend and support the dictators of 2020 China or 1940 Germany without being censored by the US government. However he could be censored by AppleInsider, which isn't bound by the first amendment, and I would support AI for censoring him.

    Why would they censor factual comments?   Because you disapprove?  Because they don't adhere to your far right ideology?

    By the way, if you notice, all of the responses have nothing to do with anything I posted and instead simply resort to personal attacks -- of which yours is another.
  • Reply 20 of 32
    sdw2001 said:
    sdw2001 said:
    The entire article is written from a false premise.   

    According to Harvard professor Allan Brandt, an expert on the history of the tobacco industry's tactics against regulatory measures, Facebook "took a big hit this week, but they are capable of taking many hits just as the tobacco industry was."
    ....  This is about government finding a way to regulate speech, ...

    No, this is about finding a way regulate false and misleading speech that is being used to damage the country, its democracy and its people.

    We need to defend ourselves against these attacks.
    The government has no right to regulate false and misleading speech.  False and misleading speech is protected, just as most "hate speech" is.  And there you go again with framing people's social media opinions as an "attack on democracy."   I guess you think Jan 6th was worse than 9/11, too.  
    The horrific attacks of September 11th were executed by a foreign enemy. The attack on the White House on January 6th was executed by the citizenry.

    In some ways, I think the latter is worse. I commend the citizens who rose up in force believing that their country was in danger. But I deplore the politicians who abused that zeal and fomented dissent without a factual basis for their claims.

    To your point on the government not having the right to regulate speech... that's a difficult one. On the one hand, government should not be able to regulate speech that is critical of itself because that would remove one of the more effective barriers against despotism. On the other hand, the government has a responsibility to protect its citizens - especially those that cannot protect themselves. And for decades there has been research into finding weak spots in the human psyche in order to more effectively persuade people (initially to increase the effectiveness of sales techniques, but more recently to exert population control).

    If the warfare is now psychological rather than physical, does that mean government should be prevented from enacting a defense? If speech has been weaponised, isn't there a need for a quick reaction now followed by better education and training to reduce the severity of the problem long term?

    It's a tougher decision than it seems at first blush. I'm glad it's not my country.
    GeorgeBMacwatto_cobra
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