Despite potshots, Intel & Samsung want to make Apple Silicon

AppleInsider

A new report says that both Intel and Samsung hope to win orders from Apple to manufacture Apple Silicon processors, currently all made by TSMC.

Intel CEO Pat Gelsinger recently and quite grudgingly said that Apple had done a "pretty good job" with Apple Silicon. At the same time that Intel has been developing widely derided marketing campaigns that try to say Apple Silicon is inferior, the company is also reportedly hoping to manufacture it for Apple.

According to Digitimes Asia, unspecified sources within the industry say that both Intel and Samsung are striving to win orders to manufacture the processors. The sources say, however, that TSMC is expected to remain the sole supplier, at least for now.

It's not clear what moves Samsung is making toward this goal, but it isn't a new decision from Intel. Back in March 2021, Intel invested $20 billion in a pair of processor fabrication plants in Arizona, seemingly aiming to build chips for Apple.

Intel's Gelsinger said at the time that the plants were to work independently of the rest of the company, and was looking to build up its client base. Apple was said to be a target, but the plant was already working with Amazon, Cisco, IBM, and Microsoft.

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applepoor

I sure would not let Intel nor Samsung have access to build Apple's processors. They would then steal the technology for their own chips and Apple would loose their marketing and power advantages in both computers and the "I" devices.

Samsung stole Apple's designs years ago and they are not any different now. There is a different integrity mindset in other places in the world.

edited October 2021

iloveapplegear

Of course samsung want to make it so they can copy it.

wood1208

I would give to Intel over never ever give to Samsung

lkrupp

Analysts and big tech are taking notice of Apple Silicon. The race to copy Apple’s designs is probably already afoot.

mplsp

Yeah, everyone pretty much knew when the intel ads came out they were essentially saying “crap - we can’t hold a candle to the M1 so we’d better write some attack ads to hide the truth!”

last I heard, there wasn’t a lot of extra production capacity anyway. Assuming there is, selling the chips to Intel would give additional income to support further development, but it’s also ‘aiding the enemy.’ At least intel isn’t in direct competition the way Samsung is.

ajmas

Maybe having a subsidiary that purely focuses on fabricating, like TSMC, could be beneficial to Intel itself? This would mean the parent company would focus purely on designing the chips and then simply be a primary client to the subsidiary. The subsidiary in the meantime would have the mandate of becoming the best chip fabricator out there, like TSMC, and with the ability to manufacture for anyone would have the incentive to invest early in new technology. Also by having them separate, then hopefully internal politics wouldn’t compromise working with other partners.  .

There are probably a lot of details I am missing, but right now something clearly needs to change. 

As for Samsung, they may be one company by name, but like a number of Asian corporations operate like many companies under one roof. This means while you are competing with one division, you are nicely doing business with another.  

mike1

Generally speaking, a single source for any component is not a good thing. Whether it was Intel, Samsung or someone else, having another fabricator that was qualified and could handle part of the demand could only be a good thing.

mike1

ApplePoor said:

I sure would not let Intel nor Samsung have access to build Apple's processors. They would then steal the technology for their own chips and Apple would loose their marketing and power advantages in both computers and the "I" devices.

Samsung stole Apple's designs years ago and they are not any different now. There is a different integrity mindset in other places in the world.

The chips are pretty widely available for copying now. Only need to buy a new phone.

mjtomlin

lkrupp said:

Analysts and big tech are taking notice of Apple Silicon. The race to copy Apple’s designs is probably already afoot.

It's not that anyone can't design similar chips to Apple's, it's that Apple's designs are very expensive. You need scale and huge profit margins. Each generation of their SoC designs end up in hundreds of millions of "higher end" devices over the course of several years.

Plus, Intel and AMD have the problem that their CPU's are based on the bloated x86 architecture that's never going reach the efficiency of ARM.

melgross

ApplePoor said:

I sure would not let Intel nor Samsung have access to build Apple's processors. They would then steal the technology for their own chips and Apple would loose their marketing and power advantages in both computers and the "I" devices.

Samsung stole Apple's designs years ago and they are not any different now. There is a different integrity mindset in other places in the world.

No, they wouldn’t, and no, Samsung didn’t.

mjtomlin

ApplePoor said:

I sure would not let Intel nor Samsung have access to build Apple's processors. They would then steal the technology for their own chips and Apple would loose their marketing and power advantages in both computers and the "I" devices.

Samsung stole Apple's designs years ago and they are not any different now. There is a different integrity mindset in other places in the world.

Samsung is a huge conglomerate and while their consumer electronics/appliance division is a cess pool full of turds, their industrial/manufacturing arms are of the best in the world - they haven't and wouldn't steal IP from a client.

tmay

melgross said:

» show previous quotes

ApplePoor said:

I sure would not let Intel nor Samsung have access to build Apple's processors. They would then steal the technology for their own chips and Apple would loose their marketing and power advantages in both computers and the "I" devices.

Samsung stole Apple's designs years ago and they are not any different now. There is a different integrity mindset in other places in the world.

No, they wouldn’t, and no, Samsung didn’t.

Both Intel and Samsung would be happy to get Apple's fab orders, and you're correct, these companies can't really steal Apple's tech simply because they aren't designing to the vertical market that Apple is, which includes its OS. In theory, that only leaves Google, MS, and erstwhile Huawei, with its Android OS derivative.

I'd assume that Apple would be happy to get more leading edge fab capacity in the future, especially from Intel, to burnish its "made in U.S.A" credentials, if nothing else.

fred257

mjtomlin said:

» show previous quotes

ApplePoor said:

I sure would not let Intel nor Samsung have access to build Apple's processors. They would then steal the technology for their own chips and Apple would loose their marketing and power advantages in both computers and the "I" devices.

Samsung stole Apple's designs years ago and they are not any different now. There is a different integrity mindset in other places in the world.

Samsung is a huge conglomerate and while their consumer electronics/appliance division is a cess pool full of turds, their industrial/manufacturing arms are of the best in the world - they haven't and wouldn't steal IP from a client.

Yes they would.  They’re not pure and neither is Apple. In design everyone copies everything and then adds and or subtracts from the design to come up with something new.  But, Apple did design the first consumer based PC and they rightfully need to keep their tech a secret because they’ve been ripped off numerous times by companies (like Samsung) over the years.

cincytee

And now our candidate for understatement of the year:

Intel CEO Pat Gelsinger recently and quite grudgingly said that Apple had done a "pretty good job" with Apple Silicon.

applepoor

That is because Intel has done, to put it politely, an extremely poor job of developing any new processors in a timely fashion. The reason Apple left was Intel could not (or would not) get new processors that actually were hardware rather than vaporware out the door. Apple wants to be in charge of firmware, hardware and software for a fully integrated system. That scenario is what makes their recent equipment work so well.

edited October 2021

robin huber

I share the anxiety of others about those contracted to fab Apple silicon stealing its IP. But is fabbing the only avenue to such theft? Seems to me reverse engineering the chip out of a device they buy over the counter would accomplish the same goal. Perhaps Apple’s patent attorneys could come up with an ironclad solution to this dilemma. But in any case, we must bring this vital technology onshore in the interest of national security. 

blastdoor

Even if Intel were capable of making the M1 Max, I'm really skeptical that they'd want to do it at a price that's acceptable to Apple. The M1 Max is a crazy big chip, but low volume, probably very expensive to build. I bet it only makes sense to Apple because they get the profit from the whole stack, not just the chip. 

so... yeah, right Intel. You're not ever going to make a chip like this even if you had the ability (which currently you don't) 

auxio

tmay said:

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melgross said:

ApplePoor said:

I sure would not let Intel nor Samsung have access to build Apple's processors. They would then steal the technology for their own chips and Apple would loose their marketing and power advantages in both computers and the "I" devices.

Samsung stole Apple's designs years ago and they are not any different now. There is a different integrity mindset in other places in the world.

No, they wouldn’t, and no, Samsung didn’t.

Both Intel and Samsung would be happy to get Apple's fab orders, and you're correct, these companies can't really steal Apple's tech simply because they aren't designing to the vertical market that Apple is, which includes its OS.

This.  Sure they could copy the chips, but they won't have the OS to support them.  And it's not like they couldn't use an x-ray machine and a scope to reverse engineer a chip from one of the new MBPs.  I have no doubt that any unique technology from Apple's SoCs will end up in Samsung's (and other ARM-based) SoCs sooner or later.  But Apple will already be a generation or two ahead.

jpellino

Samsung should technically be last choice if at all, as they are a direct competitor for devices.  Let them license from ARM and roll their own. 
Apple could conceivably better help fund another TSMC plant if needed for volume. 
Intel could also just fab the design, their "5nm" generation fab is still on paper only, while TSMC has been getting 80% yields on shipping chips for a year.  
Plus I'd imagine they'd be eating crow to start fabbing ARM chips, with their bald claims of a superior chip design.  Not to mention ARM licensing. 
At least Apple was transparent about going with the best available ships for the job.

charlesatlas

tmay said:

I'd assume that Apple would be happy to get more leading edge fab capacity in the future, especially from Intel, to burnish its "made in U.S.A" credentials, if nothing else.

TSMC is building a fabrication plant in Arizona to be finished in a few years. And TSMC will have 3nm on the market before Intel even moves to 7nm. Which would you think Apple would consider "leading edge."