IBM's new fabrication plant is designed to produce chips at .09µ from the get go, so it's a good bet that's what this processor will be. Not .13µ as we've been hoping for from Motorola.
Speaking of which, Buh Bye Moto-scro-la. Rat bastards.
<strong>Speaking of which, Buh Bye Moto-scro-la. Rat bastards.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Moogs, I couldn't have said it better myself!! Well not without running into the automated censor... <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" />
Nonetheless, I don't think Apple would allow public disclosure of the techinical details of a chip that they were going to use. My guess is that we'll see this thing next week.</strong><hr></blockquote>
uhm? Motorola discussed details of the original g4, the g4e and the g4e SOI years before actual release at the very same forum IBM is using to disclosure details about this Power4 .. But they havent talket about a high end PPC since y2000 or so, because (IMO) there is no MOT G5 in the pipeline.
Im sure I could find some links to *gasp* confirm this, but Im too lazy right now.
The 6.4GB/s bandwidth figure refers to the nForce2's dual channel DDR400 SDRAM controller. Since this is an Athlon chipset, it communicates with the CPU at 2.1GB/s (theoretically, of course), and the HyperTransport link between the IGP and the MCP(North and Southbridge in Nvidia-speak) is 800MB/s.
James, the AMD Opteron will have a HyperTransport bus made up of 2 HT links, for maximum theoritical bandwidth of 6.4 GB/s. This is probably the source of your confusion.
<strong>IBM's new fabrication plant is designed to produce chips at .09µ from the get go, so it's a good bet that's what this processor will be. Not .13µ as we've been hoping for from Motorola.</strong><hr></blockquote>
It's designed to transition to 0.09, it will start at 0.13. It is also due to be used for foundry only, not IBM's own chips but chips built for third parties, IBM already have a working 0.13 line for their own chips.
Also Motorola have in the past given presentations at MPF on upcoming processors which have later been used in Macs. The current Apollo processor was described at MPF 2000 or 1999 (I can't remember which right now). IBM would be extremely unlikely to describe a shipping device at MPF, it's the wrong forum. MPF is generally for future hardware.
uhm? Motorola discussed details of the original g4, the g4e and the g4e SOI years before actual release at the very same forum IBM is using to disclosure details about this Power4 .. But they havent talket about a high end PPC since y2000 or so, because (IMO) there is no MOT G5 in the pipeline.
Im sure I could find some links to *gasp* confirm this, but Im too lazy right now.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Thanks for putting me in a crappy mood. Dang, that's too bad too, it would have been nice to see these processors next week along side better graphics cards and running OX 10.2.
IBM's new fabrication plant is designed to produce chips at .09µ from the get go, so it's a good bet that's what this processor will be. Not .13µ as we've been hoping for from Motorola.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
Wrong, the new East Fishkill fab will start out at .13 micron and then will be converted to .09 later. I though the CNET article made this clear.
If I remember correctly, Motorola also announced the 7450 ( named g4e at that time) at that forum october 1999. Thats right: only a few months after the release of first gen G4 powermacs(!!!).
So that Power4 could _in theory_ still be years off..
If I remember correctly, Motorola also announced the 7450 ( named g4e at that time) at that forum october 1999. Thats right: only a few months after the release of first gen G4 powermacs(!!!).
So that Power4 could _in theory_ still be years off..</strong><hr></blockquote>
Thanks for the links. I also now remember that IBM announced their next generation 750 (750FX I think) chip at last year's microprocessor forum before it ever went into an iBook.
<strong>Also Motorola have in the past given presentations at MPF on upcoming processors which have later been used in Macs. The current Apollo processor was described at MPF 2000 or 1999 (I can't remember which right now). IBM would be extremely unlikely to describe a shipping device at MPF, it's the wrong forum. MPF is generally for future hardware.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Yes... but if this new chip is indeed based on the Power4 then maybe it might still be worthy of a talk at MPF (even if it's shipping). The Power4 has a lot of respect in the CPU world and being able to move that technology from the server space where the CPU cost $$$$ now to the desktop space $$ would indeed be a pretty big deal and maybe even a worthy use of the forum...
Then again maybe I just WANT IT NOW so I'm looking for any reason I can to say this is ready to ship!
Last year, one of IBM's presentations at the MPF was the Gekko chip for GameCube which came out a month later.
They did announce a next-generation PPC architecture with SIMD last year when they published their latest roadmap. According to that roadmap, this "new-generation" was supposed to come after the current generation stopped at 1Ghz on 13 micron SOI, which is what the 750fx is.
The only thing new here, is that they're finally saying this will be a "high-performance desktop processor" and not a low-power, low-cost embedded one. This is huge. Last year, they always made it a point to emphasize that this new-generation PPC would be an embedded low-power design. So now they're saying there'll be a desktop version.
A 64 bit , 8 way desktop processor with SIMD would kick major ass. It would put Apple back in the performance game, big time. If only we could have this by MWSF next year...
Easy for you to say, you probably have a G4. I've had this 8600 for 5 years. I can't relax. And, I can't run OS X.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Actually, there have been several machines between the 8600 and these next-next-next generation ones, that will run OSX. You could have purchased one of those. And if those aren't good enough, buy one of the new ones coming out in the next month or so.
There will ALWAYS be bleeding-edge, early design stage stuff we'll hear about, that's faster than anything we can actually buy. It doesn't mean the stuff we can buy isn't worth buying, just because the bleeding-edge stuff is coming eventually.
[quote]The only thing new here, is that they're finally saying this will be a "high-performance desktop processor" and not a low-power, low-cost embedded one.<hr></blockquote>
My guess is that they will still be low-power, or relatively low-power. Entry-level servers == blade servers, where heat dissapation and power consumption are a concern. Not as much of a concern as embedded, but you won't be cooking eggs on the thing.
Comments
Speaking of which, Buh Bye Moto-scro-la. Rat bastards.
<strong>Speaking of which, Buh Bye Moto-scro-la. Rat bastards.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Moogs, I couldn't have said it better myself!! Well not without running into the automated censor... <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" />
<strong>
Nonetheless, I don't think Apple would allow public disclosure of the techinical details of a chip that they were going to use. My guess is that we'll see this thing next week.</strong><hr></blockquote>
uhm? Motorola discussed details of the original g4, the g4e and the g4e SOI years before actual release at the very same forum IBM is using to disclosure details about this Power4 .. But they havent talket about a high end PPC since y2000 or so, because (IMO) there is no MOT G5 in the pipeline.
Im sure I could find some links to *gasp* confirm this, but Im too lazy right now.
James, the AMD Opteron will have a HyperTransport bus made up of 2 HT links, for maximum theoritical bandwidth of 6.4 GB/s. This is probably the source of your confusion.
<strong>IBM's new fabrication plant is designed to produce chips at .09µ from the get go, so it's a good bet that's what this processor will be. Not .13µ as we've been hoping for from Motorola.</strong><hr></blockquote>
It's designed to transition to 0.09, it will start at 0.13. It is also due to be used for foundry only, not IBM's own chips but chips built for third parties, IBM already have a working 0.13 line for their own chips.
Also Motorola have in the past given presentations at MPF on upcoming processors which have later been used in Macs. The current Apollo processor was described at MPF 2000 or 1999 (I can't remember which right now). IBM would be extremely unlikely to describe a shipping device at MPF, it's the wrong forum. MPF is generally for future hardware.
michael
<strong>
uhm? Motorola discussed details of the original g4, the g4e and the g4e SOI years before actual release at the very same forum IBM is using to disclosure details about this Power4 .. But they havent talket about a high end PPC since y2000 or so, because (IMO) there is no MOT G5 in the pipeline.
Im sure I could find some links to *gasp* confirm this, but Im too lazy right now.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Thanks for putting me in a crappy mood. Dang, that's too bad too, it would have been nice to see these processors next week along side better graphics cards and running OX 10.2.
No links required.
[ 08-08-2002: Message edited by: sc_markt ]</p>
<a href="http://zdnet.com.com/2100-1103-892836.html"; target="_blank">ZDNET Power5 & 6</a>
<strong>
IBM's new fabrication plant is designed to produce chips at .09µ from the get go, so it's a good bet that's what this processor will be. Not .13µ as we've been hoping for from Motorola.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
Wrong, the new East Fishkill fab will start out at .13 micron and then will be converted to .09 later. I though the CNET article made this clear.
<strong>"15 to 20 stage pipelines"
thats a pretty long pipeline.. isnt the P4 like 24 stage. dont know the exact number but that sounds close.
that will allow very high clock speeds.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
I belive the P4 is 20 and AMD's Hammer will be 20 as well.
<strong>
No links required.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I found this
<a href="http://news.com.com/2100-1001-210972.html"; target="_blank">http://news.com.com/2100-1001-210972.html</a>;
<a href="http://news.com.com/2100-1001-220805.html"; target="_blank">http://news.com.com/2100-1001-220805.html</a>;
If I remember correctly, Motorola also announced the 7450 ( named g4e at that time) at that forum october 1999. Thats right: only a few months after the release of first gen G4 powermacs(!!!).
So that Power4 could _in theory_ still be years off..
<strong>
I found this
<a href="http://news.com.com/2100-1001-210972.html"; target="_blank">http://news.com.com/2100-1001-210972.html</a>;
<a href="http://news.com.com/2100-1001-220805.html"; target="_blank">http://news.com.com/2100-1001-220805.html</a>;
If I remember correctly, Motorola also announced the 7450 ( named g4e at that time) at that forum october 1999. Thats right: only a few months after the release of first gen G4 powermacs(!!!).
So that Power4 could _in theory_ still be years off..</strong><hr></blockquote>
Thanks for the links. I also now remember that IBM announced their next generation 750 (750FX I think) chip at last year's microprocessor forum before it ever went into an iBook.
However, forgetting about Motorola vaporware, does anyone have any history about IBM product annoucements at MPF?
Barto
EDIT: Typed my post as above poster replied.
[ 08-08-2002: Message edited by: Barto ]</p>
<strong>Also Motorola have in the past given presentations at MPF on upcoming processors which have later been used in Macs. The current Apollo processor was described at MPF 2000 or 1999 (I can't remember which right now). IBM would be extremely unlikely to describe a shipping device at MPF, it's the wrong forum. MPF is generally for future hardware.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Yes... but if this new chip is indeed based on the Power4 then maybe it might still be worthy of a talk at MPF (even if it's shipping). The Power4 has a lot of respect in the CPU world and being able to move that technology from the server space where the CPU cost $$$$ now to the desktop space $$ would indeed be a pretty big deal and maybe even a worthy use of the forum...
Then again maybe I just WANT IT NOW so I'm looking for any reason I can to say this is ready to ship!
D
[ 08-08-2002: Message edited by: DaveGee ]</p>
Jet
This CPU might be different, since its not a completly new design. OK, adding SIMD is non-trival, but we already have Altivec in the G4 so..
[ 08-08-2002: Message edited by: blabla ]</p>
<strong>Everyone relax. We are looking at 12 months, minimum.
Jet</strong><hr></blockquote>
Easy for you to say, you probably have a G4. I've had this 8600 for 5 years. I can't relax. And, I can't run OS X.
They did announce a next-generation PPC architecture with SIMD last year when they published their latest roadmap. According to that roadmap, this "new-generation" was supposed to come after the current generation stopped at 1Ghz on 13 micron SOI, which is what the 750fx is.
The only thing new here, is that they're finally saying this will be a "high-performance desktop processor" and not a low-power, low-cost embedded one. This is huge. Last year, they always made it a point to emphasize that this new-generation PPC would be an embedded low-power design. So now they're saying there'll be a desktop version.
A 64 bit , 8 way desktop processor with SIMD would kick major ass. It would put Apple back in the performance game, big time. If only we could have this by MWSF next year...
<strong>
Easy for you to say, you probably have a G4. I've had this 8600 for 5 years. I can't relax. And, I can't run OS X.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Actually, there have been several machines between the 8600 and these next-next-next generation ones, that will run OSX. You could have purchased one of those. And if those aren't good enough, buy one of the new ones coming out in the next month or so.
There will ALWAYS be bleeding-edge, early design stage stuff we'll hear about, that's faster than anything we can actually buy. It doesn't mean the stuff we can buy isn't worth buying, just because the bleeding-edge stuff is coming eventually.
My guess is that they will still be low-power, or relatively low-power. Entry-level servers == blade servers, where heat dissapation and power consumption are a concern. Not as much of a concern as embedded, but you won't be cooking eggs on the thing.
<a href="http://developer.apple.com/hardware/ve/detail.html"; target="_blank">http://developer.apple.com/hardware/ve/detail.html</a>;
EDIT: added URL
[ 08-08-2002: Message edited by: Eugene ]</p>