China encourages and supports capitalistic ventures -- as long as they benefit China and its people -- and especially if they do not threaten the stability and growth of the country.
It's a win-win strategy.
in this case:
Apple wins, China wins, and the Chinese people win -- and we win because we get great iPhones at prices we can afford.
Actually, the whole world loses. China is a fascist country, complete with concentration camps. Don't let them fool you, China is no more communist than Nazi Germany was socialist. Crony capitalism like this is very typical of fascist governments, particularly when it helps their ethnic cleansing goals and land grabs.
It's a lose-lose strategy.
In this case:
Apple loses (because long term the fascist government will capture everything Apple took there). The Chinese people lose (because things like this help prop up the fascist government and build the surveillance state) -- and we lose because jobs for free people have instead been sent to a fascist country and we get iPhones that are still expensive while losing manufacturing capability.
Both these positions are too extreme. This is a win for sure from a capitalist view, but terrible from a human rights perspective. However, comparing China to Nazi Germany is excessive. Most countries score poorly in having economic and social systems that reward merit. China is simply more obvious in how poorly it treats citizens. In America it is more subtle, as seen by the slowly disappearing American middle class.
Maybe through these mega-deals Apple can help push China to embrace a more progressive system.
On one hand, I don't blame Apple for threading the needle with the CCP in order to get access to a market with 5 times the population of U.S. But on the other, that's a lot of money and resources that are building Communist China instead of the United States. China is a major competitor, biggest trade partner, and #1 threat to the U.S. all at the same time. Their government's goal is to be the world superpower by 2050. This was a long-term plan started in the 1970's. We dismissed them for decades, thought we "free" trade could liberalize the CCP, and their military was subpar compared to ours. All that has changed in the last 20 years. While we still have a superior military, they have the capability to win a battle (for example, Taiwan) before we can respond with full force. They also have sophisticated enough equipment (planes, missiles, anti-satellite etc.) to give us real problems.
Agreed, Apple is in a tough spot, but it does seem like they could do more domestically at the same time, doesn't seem like this needs to be mutually exclusive.
I think the other barrier is that domestically (US), there's not much political incentive do do anything the CCP doesn't like, particularly given the fact that the CCP has bought out or otherwise compromised so many US politicians. Even the current President has been caught making illegal deals with the Chinese companies (via emails found on his son's laptop, and publicly corroborated by one of their business partners), not to mention a member of the house intelligence committee (Swallwell) having sex with a CCP spy named Fang Fang, and a member of the senate intelligence committee (Feinstein) having a CCP spy as her chauffeur for over a decade.. If this was a movie it'd be too hard to believe, yet this is our reality, and it's not looking good. Unfortunately, people are so ideologically blind that they become immediately defensive, and so we don't get a chance to discuss these issues as a society.
But this was done in 2016, before we really knew just how far China wants to go to dominate the world and the evil that government perpetrated to get there.
It was still bad as Apple supposedly stands for human rights and the government of China is basically anti human rights.
Then hosting user data on government owned servers, etc. those were all steps too far.
But Apple thought they had to in order to not be overrun by rivals who did do business with China.
Too bad they could come together as a consortium to refuse chinas demands and agree to not compete on that term. That would have put China in a place of being willing to let it go. But giving in just emboldened such practice further.
Not really looking good either way. But not as bad as if Apple just now entered into or renewed such agreements.
This is a giant bribe to the corrupt Chinese government officials. Apple values human rights a lot less than virtue signaling about the environment and global warming. By paying off Xi and his crew, Apple thinks that it can guarantee that it will be left alone to manufacture and sell as many iPhones as it can in China without any more government or court interference. This was kept a secret for a reason. I don't think the Chinese people will be happy to learn that their leaders just pocketed over a quarter of a trillion dollars. Never forget: China is currently engaged in genocide.
Humans are no longer in fashion. It's all about vaguely helping 'the planet' and saving zebra snails. Apple, like most people who want to do good, but aren't sure how to go abut it, takes their cues from popular social narratives, which typically have ulterior goals and motivations. To Apple's credit, I do like their recycling (wood, parts, etc.) initiatives, as these will have a meaningful impact on the environment and sustainability.
It's a shame because Apple has so much potential for efficiently deconstructing and solving complex problems (except their services...), which could make them a leader in meaningful humanitarian aid. For instance, rather than hyperfocusing on the inane social sensitivities of westerners in comfortable developed nations, they could help bolster the economies of the areas they depend on for materials mining, or communities that are affected by industrial/technological waste, etc.
On one hand, I don't blame Apple for threading the needle with the CCP in order to get access to a market with 5 times the population of U.S. But on the other, that's a lot of money and resources that are building Communist China instead of the United States. China is a major competitor, biggest trade partner, and #1 threat to the U.S. all at the same time. Their government's goal is to be the world superpower by 2050. This was a long-term plan started in the 1970's. We dismissed them for decades, thought we "free" trade could liberalize the CCP, and their military was subpar compared to ours. All that has changed in the last 20 years. While we still have a superior military, they have the capability to win a battle (for example, Taiwan) before we can respond with full force. They also have sophisticated enough equipment (planes, missiles, anti-satellite etc.) to give us real problems.
Is there any actual evidence that China is a threat to the U.S. or that they intend to become the world's leading super (military) power -- or is it just more propaganda left over from the Trump era?
We know how that operates: repeat the lies enough times and they becomes the new alternative facts.
They literally have a public plan to do so. It’s not as if they’re trying to hide their motives!
The only public plan I know of from China is to do the best for their people that they are able. They've pretty much eliminated the pervasive, rampant, abject poverty of their people and they want that progress to continue. Starting wars or wasting money on expensive weapons systems to police the world (like we're doing) - is not part of that plan because it just squanders money, people and resources in unnecessary, unwinnable wars..
Do they seek world domination? no. But as part of their public plan they say they will never again be dominated, colonized or abused by another country.
China encourages and supports capitalistic ventures -- as long as they benefit China and its people -- and especially if they do not threaten the stability and growth of the country.
It's a win-win strategy.
in this case:
Apple wins, China wins, and the Chinese people win -- and we win because we get great iPhones at prices we can afford.
Actually, the whole world loses. China is a fascist country, complete with concentration camps. Don't let them fool you, China is no more communist than Nazi Germany was socialist. Crony capitalism like this is very typical of fascist governments, particularly when it helps their ethnic cleansing goals and land grabs.
It's a lose-lose strategy.
In this case:
Apple loses (because long term the fascist government will capture everything Apple took there). The Chinese people lose (because things like this help prop up the fascist government and build the surveillance state) -- and we lose because jobs for free people have instead been sent to a fascist country and we get iPhones that are still expensive while losing manufacturing capability.
OH so communist China is now fascist China?
LOL.... I guess the "Dirty Rotten Commie" got a little worn....
On one hand, I don't blame Apple for threading the needle with the CCP in order to get access to a market with 5 times the population of U.S. But on the other, that's a lot of money and resources that are building Communist China instead of the United States. China is a major competitor, biggest trade partner, and #1 threat to the U.S. all at the same time. Their government's goal is to be the world superpower by 2050. This was a long-term plan started in the 1970's. We dismissed them for decades, thought we "free" trade could liberalize the CCP, and their military was subpar compared to ours. All that has changed in the last 20 years. While we still have a superior military, they have the capability to win a battle (for example, Taiwan) before we can respond with full force. They also have sophisticated enough equipment (planes, missiles, anti-satellite etc.) to give us real problems.
Is there any actual evidence that China is a threat to the U.S. or that they intend to become the world's leading super (military) power -- or is it just more propaganda left over from the Trump era?
We know how that operates: repeat the lies enough times and they becomes the new alternative facts.
That China routinely crosses into Taiwan’s ADIZ with nuclear numbers, builds military installations on manmade islands in international waters, and reneged on its promise to allow self rule in Hong Kong is not enough?
Is that enough? No, not by a long shot.
Both Hong King and Taiwan are Chinese territory, part of their country. They let both run themselves (to everybody's benefit) till the west (mostly the U.S.) stirred up rebellion in those territories (much like we did in Ukraine) forcing China to once again have their territories colonized by the west or push back. They decided to push back.
China's been clear: they will no longer tolerate western countries trying to colonize them (even if we call it "freedom and democracy"). It ain't happening.
As for military bases in the Pacific: do you want to compare the number and size of ours to theirs?
On one hand, I don't blame Apple for threading the needle with the CCP in order to get access to a market with 5 times the population of U.S. But on the other, that's a lot of money and resources that are building Communist China instead of the United States. China is a major competitor, biggest trade partner, and #1 threat to the U.S. all at the same time. Their government's goal is to be the world superpower by 2050. This was a long-term plan started in the 1970's. We dismissed them for decades, thought we "free" trade could liberalize the CCP, and their military was subpar compared to ours. All that has changed in the last 20 years. While we still have a superior military, they have the capability to win a battle (for example, Taiwan) before we can respond with full force. They also have sophisticated enough equipment (planes, missiles, anti-satellite etc.) to give us real problems.
Agreed, Apple is in a tough spot, but it does seem like they could do more domestically at the same time, doesn't seem like this needs to be mutually exclusive.
I think the other barrier is that domestically (US), there's not much political incentive do do anything the CCP doesn't like, particularly given the fact that the CCP has bought out or otherwise compromised so many US politicians. Even the current President has been caught making illegal deals with the Chinese companies (via emails found on his son's laptop, and publicly corroborated by one of their business partners), not to mention a member of the house intelligence committee (Swallwell) having sex with a CCP spy named Fang Fang, and a member of the senate intelligence committee (Feinstein) having a CCP spy as her chauffeur for over a decade.. If this was a movie it'd be too hard to believe, yet this is our reality, and it's not looking good. Unfortunately, people are so ideologically blind that they become immediately defensive, and so we don't get a chance to discuss these issues as a society.
And with the Build Back Better Act facing an extremely uphill battle in the Senate, the US will continue to struggle while China eats its lunch (hell, it's breakfast, dinner and all snacks as well!).
What does tax payer funded government bloat have to do with investment in a county by a corporation?
Just a curious question, since the subject seems to be manufacturing in a different country. How much more would you be willing to pay to buy all US manufactured Apple products? 15%, 20%, 30% I am truly just curious.
Just a curious question, since the subject seems to be manufacturing in a different country. How much more would you be willing to pay to buy all US manufactured Apple products? 15%, 20%, 30% I am truly just curious.
It’s not about all-US or not. It’s about not feeding totalitarian regimes with an agenda to take over the world at any cost — military force included. And there is in principle nopricethat’s too high to pay to avoid that. So, to satisfy your pragmatic curiosity let’s say 1000%, depending on how imminent the hostile takeover is.
To all you speculative daydreamers in this thread: For god’s sake wake up. It’s time to pull the tongue out of that Chinese butt hole.
On one hand, I don't blame Apple for threading the needle with the CCP in order to get access to a market with 5 times the population of U.S. But on the other, that's a lot of money and resources that are building Communist China instead of the United States. China is a major competitor, biggest trade partner, and #1 threat to the U.S. all at the same time. Their government's goal is to be the world superpower by 2050. This was a long-term plan started in the 1970's. We dismissed them for decades, thought we "free" trade could liberalize the CCP, and their military was subpar compared to ours. All that has changed in the last 20 years. While we still have a superior military, they have the capability to win a battle (for example, Taiwan) before we can respond with full force. They also have sophisticated enough equipment (planes, missiles, anti-satellite etc.) to give us real problems.
Is there any actual evidence that China is a threat to the U.S. or that they intend to become the world's leading super (military) power -- or is it just more propaganda left over from the Trump era?
We know how that operates: repeat the lies enough times and they becomes the new alternative facts.
They literally have a public plan to do so. It’s not as if they’re trying to hide their motives!
The only public plan I know of from China is to do the best for their people that they are able. They've pretty much eliminated the pervasive, rampant, abject poverty of their people and they want that progress to continue. Starting wars or wasting money on expensive weapons systems to police the world (like we're doing) - is not part of that plan because it just squanders money, people and resources in unnecessary, unwinnable wars..
Do they seek world domination? no. But as part of their public plan they say they will never again be dominated, colonized or abused by another country.
Sounds to me like China saw a threat coming in the form of the new US administration and took action to mitigate its effects. Apple was between a rock and a hard place.
Bet the former resident of a certain Pennsylvania Avenue building is going to feel betrayed by this.
Just a curious question, since the subject seems to be manufacturing in a different country. How much more would you be willing to pay to buy all US manufactured Apple products? 15%, 20%, 30% I am truly just curious.
It’s not about all-US or not. It’s about not feeding totalitarian regimes with an agenda to take over the world at any cost — military force included. And there is in principle nopricethat’s too high to pay to avoid that. So, to satisfy your pragmatic curiosity let’s say 1000%, depending on how imminent the hostile takeover is. For god’s sake wake up. It’s time to pull the tongue out of that Chinese butt hole.
You want to sacrifice tens of thousands US soldiers? This is treason!
Comments
Maybe through these mega-deals Apple can help push China to embrace a more progressive system.
China's been clear: they will no longer tolerate western countries trying to colonize them (even if we call it "freedom and democracy"). It ain't happening.
BTW, Rupert Murdoch is chairman of Fox Corporation.
How much more would you be willing to pay to buy all US manufactured Apple products? 15%, 20%, 30%
I am truly just curious.
To all you speculative daydreamers in this thread: For god’s sake wake up. It’s time to pull the tongue out of that Chinese butt hole.
Sounds to me like China saw a threat coming in the form of the new US administration and took action to mitigate its effects. Apple was between a rock and a hard place.
Bet the former resident of a certain Pennsylvania Avenue building is going to feel betrayed by this.