danvm said: Again, it matters because Apple rules won't allow a native app for the service MS and Sony have.
Incorrect. Microsoft could have a streaming game service on the App Store if they individually submitted the titles for review. That would require each individual title to be ported to iOS.
That's what he said: "Apple rules won't allow a native app for the service"
No, he's claiming that Apple wouldn't allow a streaming service that used iOS native apps. Apple specifically said to MS that if they wanted to have a streaming game service on the App Store, the games needed to be submitted individually for review...meaning native iOS apps. So Apple WOULD allow the Microsoft streaming service if all the games offered on it were native to iOS and had passed App Store review.
Again, the way Xbox Cloud Gaming and PS Now works is not allowed by Apple. Even you explain clearly that they would have to change the way the service works and submit each game individually for approval. And as today, both services work as a catalog inside an app, same as Netflix, Amazon Prime and Disney+. Don't you think would be nice to see those two services, in addition to GeForce Now with their native apps in iOS?
A. Port game to iOS B. Submit iOS native game for approval by App Store C. Use App Store approved game in App Store approved streaming app
It doesn't change how the service works. Users could still download the streaming app and stream games. It just requires the games offered within the streaming service app to be iOS native and approved by the App Store. Games are applications, so they have to be submitted/approved by the App Store. That is different from media files for streaming services like Disney+. Media files do not have to be approved because they're not applications.
Did you noticed that the 3 options you gave requires changes on how Xbox Cloud Gaming and PS Now works?
Porting doesn't change how something works. It changes the platform that it works on.
So Apple rules force MS and Sony to change their platform to the Apple App Store. Isn't that also changing how it works?
danvm said: Again, it matters because Apple rules won't allow a native app for the service MS and Sony have.
Incorrect. Microsoft could have a streaming game service on the App Store if they individually submitted the titles for review. That would require each individual title to be ported to iOS.
That's what he said: "Apple rules won't allow a native app for the service"
No, he's claiming that Apple wouldn't allow a streaming service that used iOS native apps. Apple specifically said to MS that if they wanted to have a streaming game service on the App Store, the games needed to be submitted individually for review...meaning native iOS apps. So Apple WOULD allow the Microsoft streaming service if all the games offered on it were native to iOS and had passed App Store review.
Again, the way Xbox Cloud Gaming and PS Now works is not allowed by Apple. Even you explain clearly that they would have to change the way the service works and submit each game individually for approval. And as today, both services work as a catalog inside an app, same as Netflix, Amazon Prime and Disney+. Don't you think would be nice to see those two services, in addition to GeForce Now with their native apps in iOS?
A. Port game to iOS B. Submit iOS native game for approval by App Store C. Use App Store approved game in App Store approved streaming app
It doesn't change how the service works. Users could still download the streaming app and stream games. It just requires the games offered within the streaming service app to be iOS native and approved by the App Store. Games are applications, so they have to be submitted/approved by the App Store. That is different from media files for streaming services like Disney+. Media files do not have to be approved because they're not applications.
Did you noticed that the 3 options you gave requires changes on how Xbox Cloud Gaming and PS Now works?
Porting doesn't change how something works. It changes the platform that it works on.
So Apple rules force MS to change platform. Isn't that a change?
Apple's rules didn't force Microsoft to do anything. They had a choice between the App Store on iOS or internet/web browser on iOS. They chose the internet/web browser.
danvm said: Again, it matters because Apple rules won't allow a native app for the service MS and Sony have.
Incorrect. Microsoft could have a streaming game service on the App Store if they individually submitted the titles for review. That would require each individual title to be ported to iOS.
That's what he said: "Apple rules won't allow a native app for the service"
No, he's claiming that Apple wouldn't allow a streaming service that used iOS native apps. Apple specifically said to MS that if they wanted to have a streaming game service on the App Store, the games needed to be submitted individually for review...meaning native iOS apps. So Apple WOULD allow the Microsoft streaming service if all the games offered on it were native to iOS and had passed App Store review.
Again, the way Xbox Cloud Gaming and PS Now works is not allowed by Apple. Even you explain clearly that they would have to change the way the service works and submit each game individually for approval. And as today, both services work as a catalog inside an app, same as Netflix, Amazon Prime and Disney+. Don't you think would be nice to see those two services, in addition to GeForce Now with their native apps in iOS?
A. Port game to iOS B. Submit iOS native game for approval by App Store C. Use App Store approved game in App Store approved streaming app
It doesn't change how the service works. Users could still download the streaming app and stream games. It just requires the games offered within the streaming service app to be iOS native and approved by the App Store. Games are applications, so they have to be submitted/approved by the App Store. That is different from media files for streaming services like Disney+. Media files do not have to be approved because they're not applications.
Did you noticed that the 3 options you gave requires changes on how Xbox Cloud Gaming and PS Now works?
Porting doesn't change how something works. It changes the platform that it works on.
So Apple rules force MS and Sony to change their platform to the Apple App Store. Isn't that also changing how it works?
Not meaningfully. Halo is still streaming. It's just streaming to a Halo app instead of a Game Pass app. And users will need additional apps for every game they want to play.
danvm said: Again, it matters because Apple rules won't allow a native app for the service MS and Sony have.
Incorrect. Microsoft could have a streaming game service on the App Store if they individually submitted the titles for review. That would require each individual title to be ported to iOS.
That's what he said: "Apple rules won't allow a native app for the service"
No, he's claiming that Apple wouldn't allow a streaming service that used iOS native apps. Apple specifically said to MS that if they wanted to have a streaming game service on the App Store, the games needed to be submitted individually for review...meaning native iOS apps. So Apple WOULD allow the Microsoft streaming service if all the games offered on it were native to iOS and had passed App Store review.
Again, the way Xbox Cloud Gaming and PS Now works is not allowed by Apple. Even you explain clearly that they would have to change the way the service works and submit each game individually for approval. And as today, both services work as a catalog inside an app, same as Netflix, Amazon Prime and Disney+. Don't you think would be nice to see those two services, in addition to GeForce Now with their native apps in iOS?
A. Port game to iOS B. Submit iOS native game for approval by App Store C. Use App Store approved game in App Store approved streaming app
It doesn't change how the service works. Users could still download the streaming app and stream games. It just requires the games offered within the streaming service app to be iOS native and approved by the App Store. Games are applications, so they have to be submitted/approved by the App Store. That is different from media files for streaming services like Disney+. Media files do not have to be approved because they're not applications.
Did you noticed that the 3 options you gave requires changes on how Xbox Cloud Gaming and PS Now works?
Porting doesn't change how something works. It changes the platform that it works on.
So Apple rules force MS and Sony to change their platform to the Apple App Store. Isn't that also changing how it works?
Not meaningfully. Halo is still streaming. It's just streaming to a Halo app instead of a Game Pass app. And users will need additional apps for every game they want to play.
I know that it's possible to stream Halo, or any other game. But, as today, Apple rules won't allow GamesPass and PS Now. If they want to have games in iOS, they would have to take them from GamePass / PS Now and publish them individually in iOS. Also Apple requires "appears in charts and search, has user ratings and review, can be managed with ScreenTime and other parental control apps, appears on the user’s device, etc.". Most of these things are already part of GamePass and PS Now services. So it's not just stream the cloud games. They also have to modify the game to adapt to Apple requirements. Like I posted before, I have no issues with Apple creating rules, but in this case, they are nonsense.
Long story short, does Apple rules allow cloud gaming? Yes. Does Apple allows cloud gaming services as GamePass and PS Now as we have them today? No. IMO, the experiences that MS and Sony services have in gaming are miles ahead of Apple. Too bad they are forced to adopt the worst experience if they want to be in iOS devices.
danvm said: Again, it matters because Apple rules won't allow a native app for the service MS and Sony have.
Incorrect. Microsoft could have a streaming game service on the App Store if they individually submitted the titles for review. That would require each individual title to be ported to iOS.
That's what he said: "Apple rules won't allow a native app for the service"
No, he's claiming that Apple wouldn't allow a streaming service that used iOS native apps. Apple specifically said to MS that if they wanted to have a streaming game service on the App Store, the games needed to be submitted individually for review...meaning native iOS apps. So Apple WOULD allow the Microsoft streaming service if all the games offered on it were native to iOS and had passed App Store review.
Again, the way Xbox Cloud Gaming and PS Now works is not allowed by Apple. Even you explain clearly that they would have to change the way the service works and submit each game individually for approval. And as today, both services work as a catalog inside an app, same as Netflix, Amazon Prime and Disney+. Don't you think would be nice to see those two services, in addition to GeForce Now with their native apps in iOS?
A. Port game to iOS B. Submit iOS native game for approval by App Store C. Use App Store approved game in App Store approved streaming app
It doesn't change how the service works. Users could still download the streaming app and stream games. It just requires the games offered within the streaming service app to be iOS native and approved by the App Store. Games are applications, so they have to be submitted/approved by the App Store. That is different from media files for streaming services like Disney+. Media files do not have to be approved because they're not applications.
Did you noticed that the 3 options you gave requires changes on how Xbox Cloud Gaming and PS Now works?
Porting doesn't change how something works. It changes the platform that it works on.
So Apple rules force MS and Sony to change their platform to the Apple App Store. Isn't that also changing how it works?
Not meaningfully. Halo is still streaming. It's just streaming to a Halo app instead of a Game Pass app. And users will need additional apps for every game they want to play.
I know that it's possible to stream Halo, or any other game. But, as today, Apple rules won't allow GamesPass and PS Now. If they want to have games in iOS, they would have to take them from GamePass / PS Now and publish them individually in iOS. Also Apple requires "appears in charts and search, has user ratings and review, can be managed with ScreenTime and other parental control apps, appears on the user’s device, etc.". Most of these things are already part of GamePass and PS Now services. So it's not just stream the cloud games. They also have to modify the game to adapt to Apple requirements. Like I posted before, I have no issues with Apple creating rules, but in this case, they are nonsense.
Long story short, does Apple rules allow cloud gaming? Yes. Does Apple allows cloud gaming services as GamePass and PS Now as we have them today? No. IMO, the experiences that MS and Sony services have in gaming are miles ahead of Apple. Too bad they are forced to adopt the worst experience if they want to be in iOS devices.
There's no modification to the game here. Apple's rules don't allow a single app to function as a game library and launcher, because they want the App Store to be the only app library on iOS, and also they want some control over the content. Therefore if MS or Sony want to deliver GamePass on iOS then each game need to be published as its own app.
The game still streams, it still works exactly the same, it just has its own dedicated app package. And all the other stuff you mention, appearing in charts, search, user ratings etc, that all comes as part of the app store package, MS and Sony don't need to do anything else, no further changes required.
Their server backend would likely not need to be changed significantly either, as they're just dealing with a dedicated app client instead of a library app client, which is a pretty minor distinction.
What do you think is worse about the experience? Installing dedicated apps may have an extra step or two, but you only need to do that once, while for launching the game in a library app I have to tap once to open the app, then find the game I want to play, then tap to launch it. With dedicated apps I just open the app directly, or I can use Siri or Spotlight to open it, which is easier.
danvm said: Again, it matters because Apple rules won't allow a native app for the service MS and Sony have.
Incorrect. Microsoft could have a streaming game service on the App Store if they individually submitted the titles for review. That would require each individual title to be ported to iOS.
That's what he said: "Apple rules won't allow a native app for the service"
No, he's claiming that Apple wouldn't allow a streaming service that used iOS native apps. Apple specifically said to MS that if they wanted to have a streaming game service on the App Store, the games needed to be submitted individually for review...meaning native iOS apps. So Apple WOULD allow the Microsoft streaming service if all the games offered on it were native to iOS and had passed App Store review.
Again, the way Xbox Cloud Gaming and PS Now works is not allowed by Apple. Even you explain clearly that they would have to change the way the service works and submit each game individually for approval. And as today, both services work as a catalog inside an app, same as Netflix, Amazon Prime and Disney+. Don't you think would be nice to see those two services, in addition to GeForce Now with their native apps in iOS?
A. Port game to iOS B. Submit iOS native game for approval by App Store C. Use App Store approved game in App Store approved streaming app
It doesn't change how the service works. Users could still download the streaming app and stream games. It just requires the games offered within the streaming service app to be iOS native and approved by the App Store. Games are applications, so they have to be submitted/approved by the App Store. That is different from media files for streaming services like Disney+. Media files do not have to be approved because they're not applications.
Did you noticed that the 3 options you gave requires changes on how Xbox Cloud Gaming and PS Now works?
Porting doesn't change how something works. It changes the platform that it works on.
So Apple rules force MS and Sony to change their platform to the Apple App Store. Isn't that also changing how it works?
Not meaningfully. Halo is still streaming. It's just streaming to a Halo app instead of a Game Pass app. And users will need additional apps for every game they want to play.
I know that it's possible to stream Halo, or any other game. But, as today, Apple rules won't allow GamesPass and PS Now. If they want to have games in iOS, they would have to take them from GamePass / PS Now and publish them individually in iOS. Also Apple requires "appears in charts and search, has user ratings and review, can be managed with ScreenTime and other parental control apps, appears on the user’s device, etc.". Most of these things are already part of GamePass and PS Now services. So it's not just stream the cloud games. They also have to modify the game to adapt to Apple requirements. Like I posted before, I have no issues with Apple creating rules, but in this case, they are nonsense.
Long story short, does Apple rules allow cloud gaming? Yes. Does Apple allows cloud gaming services as GamePass and PS Now as we have them today? No. IMO, the experiences that MS and Sony services have in gaming are miles ahead of Apple. Too bad they are forced to adopt the worst experience if they want to be in iOS devices.
There's no modification to the game here. Apple's rules don't allow a single app to function as a game library and launcher, because they want the App Store to be the only app library on iOS, and also they want some control over the content. Therefore if MS or Sony want to deliver GamePass on iOS then each game need to be published as its own app.
The game still streams, it still works exactly the same, it just has its own dedicated app package. And all the other stuff you mention, appearing in charts, search, user ratings etc, that all comes as part of the app store package, MS and Sony don't need to do anything else, no further changes required.
Their server backend would likely not need to be changed significantly either, as they're just dealing with a dedicated app client instead of a library app client, which is a pretty minor distinction.
What do you think is worse about the experience? Installing dedicated apps may have an extra step or two, but you only need to do that once, while for launching the game in a library app I have to tap once to open the app, then find the game I want to play, then tap to launch it. With dedicated apps I just open the app directly, or I can use Siri or Spotlight to open it, which is easier.
I'm going to repeat my previous post. Does Apple rules allow cloud gaming? Yes. Does Apple allows cloud gaming services as GamePass and PS Now as we have them today? That's my point. I already knew what you said. But Apple don't want the GamePass app experience. And MS build their gaming experience around the app, same as Netflix, Disney+, HBO Max, Spotify, etc. Does it makes sense to break the experience of these apps? I don't think so. The same can be said of GamePass. What experience is worse? IMO, Apple experience is worse, since I prefer a GamePass app, same as my Netflix, Disney+ and Spotify subscriptions. Doesn't matter if I'm in my iPhone, iPad, PC or console, I have a unified experience. What Apple force with their rules breaks that experience in my iOS devices.
danvm said: Again, it matters because Apple rules won't allow a native app for the service MS and Sony have.
Incorrect. Microsoft could have a streaming game service on the App Store if they individually submitted the titles for review. That would require each individual title to be ported to iOS.
That's what he said: "Apple rules won't allow a native app for the service"
No, he's claiming that Apple wouldn't allow a streaming service that used iOS native apps. Apple specifically said to MS that if they wanted to have a streaming game service on the App Store, the games needed to be submitted individually for review...meaning native iOS apps. So Apple WOULD allow the Microsoft streaming service if all the games offered on it were native to iOS and had passed App Store review.
Again, the way Xbox Cloud Gaming and PS Now works is not allowed by Apple. Even you explain clearly that they would have to change the way the service works and submit each game individually for approval. And as today, both services work as a catalog inside an app, same as Netflix, Amazon Prime and Disney+. Don't you think would be nice to see those two services, in addition to GeForce Now with their native apps in iOS?
A. Port game to iOS B. Submit iOS native game for approval by App Store C. Use App Store approved game in App Store approved streaming app
It doesn't change how the service works. Users could still download the streaming app and stream games. It just requires the games offered within the streaming service app to be iOS native and approved by the App Store. Games are applications, so they have to be submitted/approved by the App Store. That is different from media files for streaming services like Disney+. Media files do not have to be approved because they're not applications.
Did you noticed that the 3 options you gave requires changes on how Xbox Cloud Gaming and PS Now works?
Porting doesn't change how something works. It changes the platform that it works on.
So Apple rules force MS and Sony to change their platform to the Apple App Store. Isn't that also changing how it works?
Not meaningfully. Halo is still streaming. It's just streaming to a Halo app instead of a Game Pass app. And users will need additional apps for every game they want to play.
I know that it's possible to stream Halo, or any other game. But, as today, Apple rules won't allow GamesPass and PS Now. If they want to have games in iOS, they would have to take them from GamePass / PS Now and publish them individually in iOS. Also Apple requires "appears in charts and search, has user ratings and review, can be managed with ScreenTime and other parental control apps, appears on the user’s device, etc.". Most of these things are already part of GamePass and PS Now services. So it's not just stream the cloud games. They also have to modify the game to adapt to Apple requirements. Like I posted before, I have no issues with Apple creating rules, but in this case, they are nonsense.
Long story short, does Apple rules allow cloud gaming? Yes. Does Apple allows cloud gaming services as GamePass and PS Now as we have them today? No. IMO, the experiences that MS and Sony services have in gaming are miles ahead of Apple. Too bad they are forced to adopt the worst experience if they want to be in iOS devices.
There's no modification to the game here. Apple's rules don't allow a single app to function as a game library and launcher, because they want the App Store to be the only app library on iOS, and also they want some control over the content. Therefore if MS or Sony want to deliver GamePass on iOS then each game need to be published as its own app.
The game still streams, it still works exactly the same, it just has its own dedicated app package. And all the other stuff you mention, appearing in charts, search, user ratings etc, that all comes as part of the app store package, MS and Sony don't need to do anything else, no further changes required.
Their server backend would likely not need to be changed significantly either, as they're just dealing with a dedicated app client instead of a library app client, which is a pretty minor distinction.
What do you think is worse about the experience? Installing dedicated apps may have an extra step or two, but you only need to do that once, while for launching the game in a library app I have to tap once to open the app, then find the game I want to play, then tap to launch it. With dedicated apps I just open the app directly, or I can use Siri or Spotlight to open it, which is easier.
I'm going to repeat my previous post. Does Apple rules allow cloud gaming? Yes. Does Apple allows cloud gaming services as GamePass and PS Now as we have them today? That's my point. I already knew what you said. But Apple don't want the GamePass app experience. And MS build their gaming experience around the app, same as Netflix, Disney+, HBO Max, Spotify, etc. Does it makes sense to break the experience of these apps? I don't think so. The same can be said of GamePass.
What experience is worse? IMO, Apple experience is worse, since I prefer a GamePass app, same as my Netflix, Disney+ and Spotify subscriptions. Doesn't matter if I'm in my iPhone, iPad, PC or console, I have a unified experience. What Apple force with their rules breaks that experience in my iOS devices.
Ok, but the idea that MS and Sony can't deliver cloud streaming services to iOS is false. They just can't do it in a single library app. This is because Apple considers each game to be different, requiring its own app so that it can be independently reviewed and managed by iOS. Those are the rules, and you said you have no problem with Apple creating rules. It is not Apple's priority to maintain your experience consistency when using third party services.
The technical aspects of it are not particularly consequential. MS and Sony could do this with relatively minor effort, since it's a little more than a repackage of the GP/PSN client into a single game package.
danvm said: Again, it matters because Apple rules won't allow a native app for the service MS and Sony have.
Incorrect. Microsoft could have a streaming game service on the App Store if they individually submitted the titles for review. That would require each individual title to be ported to iOS.
That's what he said: "Apple rules won't allow a native app for the service"
No, he's claiming that Apple wouldn't allow a streaming service that used iOS native apps. Apple specifically said to MS that if they wanted to have a streaming game service on the App Store, the games needed to be submitted individually for review...meaning native iOS apps. So Apple WOULD allow the Microsoft streaming service if all the games offered on it were native to iOS and had passed App Store review.
Again, the way Xbox Cloud Gaming and PS Now works is not allowed by Apple. Even you explain clearly that they would have to change the way the service works and submit each game individually for approval. And as today, both services work as a catalog inside an app, same as Netflix, Amazon Prime and Disney+. Don't you think would be nice to see those two services, in addition to GeForce Now with their native apps in iOS?
A. Port game to iOS B. Submit iOS native game for approval by App Store C. Use App Store approved game in App Store approved streaming app
It doesn't change how the service works. Users could still download the streaming app and stream games. It just requires the games offered within the streaming service app to be iOS native and approved by the App Store. Games are applications, so they have to be submitted/approved by the App Store. That is different from media files for streaming services like Disney+. Media files do not have to be approved because they're not applications.
Did you noticed that the 3 options you gave requires changes on how Xbox Cloud Gaming and PS Now works?
Porting doesn't change how something works. It changes the platform that it works on.
So Apple rules force MS and Sony to change their platform to the Apple App Store. Isn't that also changing how it works?
Not meaningfully. Halo is still streaming. It's just streaming to a Halo app instead of a Game Pass app. And users will need additional apps for every game they want to play.
I know that it's possible to stream Halo, or any other game. But, as today, Apple rules won't allow GamesPass and PS Now. If they want to have games in iOS, they would have to take them from GamePass / PS Now and publish them individually in iOS. Also Apple requires "appears in charts and search, has user ratings and review, can be managed with ScreenTime and other parental control apps, appears on the user’s device, etc.". Most of these things are already part of GamePass and PS Now services. So it's not just stream the cloud games. They also have to modify the game to adapt to Apple requirements. Like I posted before, I have no issues with Apple creating rules, but in this case, they are nonsense.
Long story short, does Apple rules allow cloud gaming? Yes. Does Apple allows cloud gaming services as GamePass and PS Now as we have them today? No. IMO, the experiences that MS and Sony services have in gaming are miles ahead of Apple. Too bad they are forced to adopt the worst experience if they want to be in iOS devices.
There's no modification to the game here. Apple's rules don't allow a single app to function as a game library and launcher, because they want the App Store to be the only app library on iOS, and also they want some control over the content. Therefore if MS or Sony want to deliver GamePass on iOS then each game need to be published as its own app.
The game still streams, it still works exactly the same, it just has its own dedicated app package. And all the other stuff you mention, appearing in charts, search, user ratings etc, that all comes as part of the app store package, MS and Sony don't need to do anything else, no further changes required.
Their server backend would likely not need to be changed significantly either, as they're just dealing with a dedicated app client instead of a library app client, which is a pretty minor distinction.
What do you think is worse about the experience? Installing dedicated apps may have an extra step or two, but you only need to do that once, while for launching the game in a library app I have to tap once to open the app, then find the game I want to play, then tap to launch it. With dedicated apps I just open the app directly, or I can use Siri or Spotlight to open it, which is easier.
I'm going to repeat my previous post. Does Apple rules allow cloud gaming? Yes. Does Apple allows cloud gaming services as GamePass and PS Now as we have them today? That's my point. I already knew what you said. But Apple don't want the GamePass app experience. And MS build their gaming experience around the app, same as Netflix, Disney+, HBO Max, Spotify, etc. Does it makes sense to break the experience of these apps? I don't think so. The same can be said of GamePass.
What experience is worse? IMO, Apple experience is worse, since I prefer a GamePass app, same as my Netflix, Disney+ and Spotify subscriptions. Doesn't matter if I'm in my iPhone, iPad, PC or console, I have a unified experience. What Apple force with their rules breaks that experience in my iOS devices.
Ok, but the idea that MS and Sony can't deliver cloud streaming services to iOS is false. They just can't do it in a single library app. This is because Apple considers each game to be different, requiring its own app so that it can be independently reviewed and managed by iOS. Those are the rules, and you said you have no problem with Apple creating rules. It is not Apple's priority to maintain your experience consistency when using third party services.
The technical aspects of it are not particularly consequential. MS and Sony could do this with relatively minor effort, since it's a little more than a repackage of the GP/PSN client into a single game package.
That's have been my point, Apple allows cloud gaming, but won't allow the cloud gaming services as we have them today. Why? Apple rules. Like you said, I have no issues with rules, but these are nonsense. And while it's true that Apple priority is not to maintain the experience consistency, it's nonsense to create rules that break good, consistent experiences, as the one we see in GamePass, Stadia and GeForce Now.
And the technical aspect you mention, as today, is irrelevant. These companies have created their games and experiences inside and app that is consistent in multiples platforms, not only for iOS devices, same as Netflix and Spotify did. Even Apple did the same with Apple TV+ and Apple Music in Android. Could that change? Of course. But as today, it's clear that Apple is reason we don't see cloud gaming services in iOS.
danvm said: Again, it matters because Apple rules won't allow a native app for the service MS and Sony have.
Incorrect. Microsoft could have a streaming game service on the App Store if they individually submitted the titles for review. That would require each individual title to be ported to iOS.
That's what he said: "Apple rules won't allow a native app for the service"
No, he's claiming that Apple wouldn't allow a streaming service that used iOS native apps. Apple specifically said to MS that if they wanted to have a streaming game service on the App Store, the games needed to be submitted individually for review...meaning native iOS apps. So Apple WOULD allow the Microsoft streaming service if all the games offered on it were native to iOS and had passed App Store review.
Again, the way Xbox Cloud Gaming and PS Now works is not allowed by Apple. Even you explain clearly that they would have to change the way the service works and submit each game individually for approval. And as today, both services work as a catalog inside an app, same as Netflix, Amazon Prime and Disney+. Don't you think would be nice to see those two services, in addition to GeForce Now with their native apps in iOS?
A. Port game to iOS B. Submit iOS native game for approval by App Store C. Use App Store approved game in App Store approved streaming app
It doesn't change how the service works. Users could still download the streaming app and stream games. It just requires the games offered within the streaming service app to be iOS native and approved by the App Store. Games are applications, so they have to be submitted/approved by the App Store. That is different from media files for streaming services like Disney+. Media files do not have to be approved because they're not applications.
Did you noticed that the 3 options you gave requires changes on how Xbox Cloud Gaming and PS Now works?
Porting doesn't change how something works. It changes the platform that it works on.
So Apple rules force MS and Sony to change their platform to the Apple App Store. Isn't that also changing how it works?
Not meaningfully. Halo is still streaming. It's just streaming to a Halo app instead of a Game Pass app. And users will need additional apps for every game they want to play.
I know that it's possible to stream Halo, or any other game. But, as today, Apple rules won't allow GamesPass and PS Now. If they want to have games in iOS, they would have to take them from GamePass / PS Now and publish them individually in iOS. Also Apple requires "appears in charts and search, has user ratings and review, can be managed with ScreenTime and other parental control apps, appears on the user’s device, etc.". Most of these things are already part of GamePass and PS Now services. So it's not just stream the cloud games. They also have to modify the game to adapt to Apple requirements. Like I posted before, I have no issues with Apple creating rules, but in this case, they are nonsense.
Long story short, does Apple rules allow cloud gaming? Yes. Does Apple allows cloud gaming services as GamePass and PS Now as we have them today? No. IMO, the experiences that MS and Sony services have in gaming are miles ahead of Apple. Too bad they are forced to adopt the worst experience if they want to be in iOS devices.
There's no modification to the game here. Apple's rules don't allow a single app to function as a game library and launcher, because they want the App Store to be the only app library on iOS, and also they want some control over the content. Therefore if MS or Sony want to deliver GamePass on iOS then each game need to be published as its own app.
The game still streams, it still works exactly the same, it just has its own dedicated app package. And all the other stuff you mention, appearing in charts, search, user ratings etc, that all comes as part of the app store package, MS and Sony don't need to do anything else, no further changes required.
Their server backend would likely not need to be changed significantly either, as they're just dealing with a dedicated app client instead of a library app client, which is a pretty minor distinction.
What do you think is worse about the experience? Installing dedicated apps may have an extra step or two, but you only need to do that once, while for launching the game in a library app I have to tap once to open the app, then find the game I want to play, then tap to launch it. With dedicated apps I just open the app directly, or I can use Siri or Spotlight to open it, which is easier.
I'm going to repeat my previous post. Does Apple rules allow cloud gaming? Yes. Does Apple allows cloud gaming services as GamePass and PS Now as we have them today? That's my point. I already knew what you said. But Apple don't want the GamePass app experience. And MS build their gaming experience around the app, same as Netflix, Disney+, HBO Max, Spotify, etc. Does it makes sense to break the experience of these apps? I don't think so. The same can be said of GamePass.
What experience is worse? IMO, Apple experience is worse, since I prefer a GamePass app, same as my Netflix, Disney+ and Spotify subscriptions. Doesn't matter if I'm in my iPhone, iPad, PC or console, I have a unified experience. What Apple force with their rules breaks that experience in my iOS devices.
Ok, but the idea that MS and Sony can't deliver cloud streaming services to iOS is false. They just can't do it in a single library app. This is because Apple considers each game to be different, requiring its own app so that it can be independently reviewed and managed by iOS. Those are the rules, and you said you have no problem with Apple creating rules. It is not Apple's priority to maintain your experience consistency when using third party services.
The technical aspects of it are not particularly consequential. MS and Sony could do this with relatively minor effort, since it's a little more than a repackage of the GP/PSN client into a single game package.
That's have been my point, Apple allows cloud gaming, but won't allow the cloud gaming services as we have them today. Why? Apple rules. Like you said, I have no issues with rules, but these are nonsense. And while it's true that Apple priority is not to maintain the experience consistency, it's nonsense to create rules that break good, consistent experiences, as the one we see in GamePass, Stadia and GeForce Now.
And the technical aspect you mention, as today, is irrelevant. These companies have created their games and experiences inside and app that is consistent in multiples platforms, not only for iOS devices, same as Netflix and Spotify did. Even Apple did the same with Apple TV+ and Apple Music in Android. Could that change? Of course. But as today, it's clear that Apple is reason we don't see cloud gaming services in iOS.
You can access cloud gaming via Safari, and MS and Sony could make individual apps. Apple aren’t bending on their rules, but they aren’t preventing cloud gaming services either.
The rules aren’t nonsense just because you want cloud gaming. Apple are being consistent about the App Store being the place to go for apps and games, and that individual apps and games need to be reviewed for content.
danvm said: Again, it matters because Apple rules won't allow a native app for the service MS and Sony have.
Incorrect. Microsoft could have a streaming game service on the App Store if they individually submitted the titles for review. That would require each individual title to be ported to iOS.
That's what he said: "Apple rules won't allow a native app for the service"
No, he's claiming that Apple wouldn't allow a streaming service that used iOS native apps. Apple specifically said to MS that if they wanted to have a streaming game service on the App Store, the games needed to be submitted individually for review...meaning native iOS apps. So Apple WOULD allow the Microsoft streaming service if all the games offered on it were native to iOS and had passed App Store review.
Again, the way Xbox Cloud Gaming and PS Now works is not allowed by Apple. Even you explain clearly that they would have to change the way the service works and submit each game individually for approval. And as today, both services work as a catalog inside an app, same as Netflix, Amazon Prime and Disney+. Don't you think would be nice to see those two services, in addition to GeForce Now with their native apps in iOS?
A. Port game to iOS B. Submit iOS native game for approval by App Store C. Use App Store approved game in App Store approved streaming app
It doesn't change how the service works. Users could still download the streaming app and stream games. It just requires the games offered within the streaming service app to be iOS native and approved by the App Store. Games are applications, so they have to be submitted/approved by the App Store. That is different from media files for streaming services like Disney+. Media files do not have to be approved because they're not applications.
Did you noticed that the 3 options you gave requires changes on how Xbox Cloud Gaming and PS Now works?
Porting doesn't change how something works. It changes the platform that it works on.
So Apple rules force MS and Sony to change their platform to the Apple App Store. Isn't that also changing how it works?
Not meaningfully. Halo is still streaming. It's just streaming to a Halo app instead of a Game Pass app. And users will need additional apps for every game they want to play.
I know that it's possible to stream Halo, or any other game. But, as today, Apple rules won't allow GamesPass and PS Now. If they want to have games in iOS, they would have to take them from GamePass / PS Now and publish them individually in iOS. Also Apple requires "appears in charts and search, has user ratings and review, can be managed with ScreenTime and other parental control apps, appears on the user’s device, etc.". Most of these things are already part of GamePass and PS Now services. So it's not just stream the cloud games. They also have to modify the game to adapt to Apple requirements. Like I posted before, I have no issues with Apple creating rules, but in this case, they are nonsense.
Long story short, does Apple rules allow cloud gaming? Yes. Does Apple allows cloud gaming services as GamePass and PS Now as we have them today? No. IMO, the experiences that MS and Sony services have in gaming are miles ahead of Apple. Too bad they are forced to adopt the worst experience if they want to be in iOS devices.
There's no modification to the game here. Apple's rules don't allow a single app to function as a game library and launcher, because they want the App Store to be the only app library on iOS, and also they want some control over the content. Therefore if MS or Sony want to deliver GamePass on iOS then each game need to be published as its own app.
The game still streams, it still works exactly the same, it just has its own dedicated app package. And all the other stuff you mention, appearing in charts, search, user ratings etc, that all comes as part of the app store package, MS and Sony don't need to do anything else, no further changes required.
Their server backend would likely not need to be changed significantly either, as they're just dealing with a dedicated app client instead of a library app client, which is a pretty minor distinction.
What do you think is worse about the experience? Installing dedicated apps may have an extra step or two, but you only need to do that once, while for launching the game in a library app I have to tap once to open the app, then find the game I want to play, then tap to launch it. With dedicated apps I just open the app directly, or I can use Siri or Spotlight to open it, which is easier.
I'm going to repeat my previous post. Does Apple rules allow cloud gaming? Yes. Does Apple allows cloud gaming services as GamePass and PS Now as we have them today? That's my point. I already knew what you said. But Apple don't want the GamePass app experience. And MS build their gaming experience around the app, same as Netflix, Disney+, HBO Max, Spotify, etc. Does it makes sense to break the experience of these apps? I don't think so. The same can be said of GamePass.
What experience is worse? IMO, Apple experience is worse, since I prefer a GamePass app, same as my Netflix, Disney+ and Spotify subscriptions. Doesn't matter if I'm in my iPhone, iPad, PC or console, I have a unified experience. What Apple force with their rules breaks that experience in my iOS devices.
Ok, but the idea that MS and Sony can't deliver cloud streaming services to iOS is false. They just can't do it in a single library app. This is because Apple considers each game to be different, requiring its own app so that it can be independently reviewed and managed by iOS. Those are the rules, and you said you have no problem with Apple creating rules. It is not Apple's priority to maintain your experience consistency when using third party services.
The technical aspects of it are not particularly consequential. MS and Sony could do this with relatively minor effort, since it's a little more than a repackage of the GP/PSN client into a single game package.
That's have been my point, Apple allows cloud gaming, but won't allow the cloud gaming services as we have them today. Why? Apple rules. Like you said, I have no issues with rules, but these are nonsense. And while it's true that Apple priority is not to maintain the experience consistency, it's nonsense to create rules that break good, consistent experiences, as the one we see in GamePass, Stadia and GeForce Now.
And the technical aspect you mention, as today, is irrelevant. These companies have created their games and experiences inside and app that is consistent in multiples platforms, not only for iOS devices, same as Netflix and Spotify did. Even Apple did the same with Apple TV+ and Apple Music in Android. Could that change? Of course. But as today, it's clear that Apple is reason we don't see cloud gaming services in iOS.
You can access cloud gaming via Safari, and MS and Sony could make individual apps. Apple aren’t bending on their rules, but they aren’t preventing cloud gaming services either.
The rules aren’t nonsense just because you want cloud gaming. Apple are being consistent about the App Store being the place to go for apps and games, and that individual apps and games need to be reviewed for content.
I have GP and I know I can use it via Safari. Still, would be nice to have a native app. Also MS and Sony could make individual apps, but also Apple could change rules to allow cloud gaming as we have today. And while Apple is not preventing cloud gaming, I suppose they are not that helpful either considering no major company (MS, Sony, Google, Nvidia) have their cloud services in iOS.
The rules are nonsense, not because I want something, is because they block good gaming services from being in the App Store. You said that Apple want consistency for apps and games, but that doesn't means they should break the experience of other apps. Netflix and Spotify broke the way iOS users watch / play movies / TV shows and music. And still, Apple adapted and accepted that streaming music and movies / TV shows\ are part of the digital experience. But for some reason, they think different from cloud gaming. Because they are apps? No problem, create rules to monetize cloud gaming services. But do not make developers break their vision and app experiences to bring them to iOS. And remember that those services are multiplatform, and it's very important to have a consistent experience for the user.
The rules are nonsense, not because I want something, is because they block good gaming services from being in the App Store.
So? That doesn't make them nonsense. It may make them ill-fitting for current trends, but the reasons for the rules are exactly the same and remain relevant. There was never any rule against an app being a music or video library because Apple consider music and video as a different kind of media consumption than games.
But do not make developers break their vision and app experiences to bring them to iOS. And remember that those services are multiplatform, and it's very important to have a consistent experience for the user.
Not to Apple it isn't. Apple couldn't give a fig about the consistent experiences of other multi-platform services. Or about developers "vision" when it conflicts with their own.
The rules are nonsense, not because I want something, is because they block good gaming services from being in the App Store.
So? That doesn't make them nonsense. It may make them ill-fitting for current trends, but the reasons for the rules are exactly the same and remain relevant. There was never any rule against an app being a music or video library because Apple consider music and video as a different kind of media consumption than games.
But do not make developers break their vision and app experiences to bring them to iOS. And remember that those services are multiplatform, and it's very important to have a consistent experience for the user.
Not to Apple it isn't. Apple couldn't give a fig about the consistent experiences of other multi-platform services. Or about developers "vision" when it conflicts with their own.
IMO, creating rules that block native apps for good services, like GamePass or PS Now, are nonsense. But it's clear that it makes sense for you and Apple.
Yes, it's obvious that Apple don't care "a fig" for other multiplatform services. I suppose that's the reason we don't have native apps for the best cloud gaming services. Even more, we don't have a good gaming experience in iOS at all, specially when you consider how good the competition is doing.
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App Store Review Guidelines - Apple Developer
Long story short, does Apple rules allow cloud gaming? Yes. Does Apple allows cloud gaming services as GamePass and PS Now as we have them today? No. IMO, the experiences that MS and Sony services have in gaming are miles ahead of Apple. Too bad they are forced to adopt the worst experience if they want to be in iOS devices.
The game still streams, it still works exactly the same, it just has its own dedicated app package. And all the other stuff you mention, appearing in charts, search, user ratings etc, that all comes as part of the app store package, MS and Sony don't need to do anything else, no further changes required.
Their server backend would likely not need to be changed significantly either, as they're just dealing with a dedicated app client instead of a library app client, which is a pretty minor distinction.
What do you think is worse about the experience? Installing dedicated apps may have an extra step or two, but you only need to do that once, while for launching the game in a library app I have to tap once to open the app, then find the game I want to play, then tap to launch it. With dedicated apps I just open the app directly, or I can use Siri or Spotlight to open it, which is easier.
What experience is worse? IMO, Apple experience is worse, since I prefer a GamePass app, same as my Netflix, Disney+ and Spotify subscriptions. Doesn't matter if I'm in my iPhone, iPad, PC or console, I have a unified experience. What Apple force with their rules breaks that experience in my iOS devices.
The technical aspects of it are not particularly consequential. MS and Sony could do this with relatively minor effort, since it's a little more than a repackage of the GP/PSN client into a single game package.
And the technical aspect you mention, as today, is irrelevant. These companies have created their games and experiences inside and app that is consistent in multiples platforms, not only for iOS devices, same as Netflix and Spotify did. Even Apple did the same with Apple TV+ and Apple Music in Android. Could that change? Of course. But as today, it's clear that Apple is reason we don't see cloud gaming services in iOS.
The rules aren’t nonsense just because you want cloud gaming. Apple are being consistent about the App Store being the place to go for apps and games, and that individual apps and games need to be reviewed for content.
The rules are nonsense, not because I want something, is because they block good gaming services from being in the App Store. You said that Apple want consistency for apps and games, but that doesn't means they should break the experience of other apps. Netflix and Spotify broke the way iOS users watch / play movies / TV shows and music. And still, Apple adapted and accepted that streaming music and movies / TV shows\ are part of the digital experience. But for some reason, they think different from cloud gaming. Because they are apps? No problem, create rules to monetize cloud gaming services. But do not make developers break their vision and app experiences to bring them to iOS. And remember that those services are multiplatform, and it's very important to have a consistent experience for the user.
Yes, it's obvious that Apple don't care "a fig" for other multiplatform services. I suppose that's the reason we don't have native apps for the best cloud gaming services. Even more, we don't have a good gaming experience in iOS at all, specially when you consider how good the competition is doing.