'Halo' and other big Microsoft games were almost individual iPhone apps

Posted:
in General Discussion
Internal Microsoft emails show how the company was considering bringing Xbox-exclusive games to the iPhone as standalone apps in the Apple App Store for a while.




Apple's terms of service bans cloud gaming services from the App Store due to a requirement that "each game must be downloaded directly from the App Store."

This prevented Netflix-like cloud gaming services such as Google Stadia, Nvidia GeForce Now, and Microsoft xCloud from existing on Apple's App Store. If a developer wanted a game to exist on iPhone or iPad, the game would be required to have an individual App Store listing.

Apple even went as far as loosening gaming rules to allow developers to create catalog apps -- that is, apps that would direct users to individual App Store listings.

Microsoft had concerns about turning each game into an individual app. The company had sent emails to Apple, as seen by The Verge, that explained that it wouldn't be practical -- to Microsoft or App Store customers.

The concerns were many. Microsoft explained that Apple customers would receive Xbox titles significantly later to those on the streaming services. In addition, the company noted that Apple players would need to navigate to each title in the App Store and download it, rather than selecting from a list in a single app.

Microsoft also expressed concern over how it would make bug fixes and updates significantly more demanding on the app developers.

"We believe that the issues described here will create frustration and confusion for customers, resulting in a sub-par experience on Apple devices relative to the equivalent experience on all other platforms," Lori Wright, Microsoft's head of business development, wrote.

However, Microsoft wasn't entirely unwilling to bring Xbox-exclusive titles to the iPhone. Wright suggested that if Apple allowed the Xbox Game Pass library on the App Store, Microsoft would be willing to turn triple-A titles into standalone apps.

"This would be an incredibly exciting opportunity for iOS users to get access to these exclusive AAA titles in addition to the Game Pass games," she wrote.

However, because the apps would still require a single streaming tech app to work, it still violated App Store policies. Ultimately, Apple rejected the proposal. Microsoft would go on to launch Xbox Game Pass as a Safari-enabled service a month later.

Apple went on to clarify to The Verge that Microsoft had proposed a version of xCloud that was not compliant with the App Store, as well.

"Unfortunately, Microsoft proposed a version of xCloud that was not compliant with our App Store Review Guidelines, specifically the requirement to use in-app purchase to unlock additional features or functionality within an app," reads a statement via Apple spokesperson Adam Dema.

Microsoft's Xbox Cloud Gaming CVP Kareem Choudhry disagreed, telling The Verge, "The reasons for rejection were unrelated to in-app purchase capabilities; we currently provide Xbox Cloud Gaming through a singular Xbox Game Pass app in the Google Play Store without IAP enabled, for example, and we would do the same through the App Store if allowed."

Choudhry states that triple-A games aren't entirely off the table, either.

"In addition to Xbox Game Pass, we were also open to bringing select individual games to iOS as we do today with titles like Minecraft."

Read on AppleInsider
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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 52
    Coulda had an iPhone native halo? Dang. 
  • Reply 2 of 52
    thttht Posts: 5,608member
    Coulda had an iPhone native halo? Dang. 
    That's not my read. It's still a cloud streamed game, it would just have an individual listing in Apple's App Store instead of an XBox cloud store app.

    So, Halo would be running on a PC or Xbox in a data center, and streaming the display to client iOS devices. That's not native whatsoever. Native is a compiled app using Apple's ObjC/Swift/Metal frameworks.
  • Reply 3 of 52
    tht said:
    Coulda had an iPhone native halo? Dang. 
    That's not my read. It's still a cloud streamed game, it would just have an individual listing in Apple's App Store instead of an XBox cloud store app.

    So, Halo would be running on a PC or Xbox in a data center, and streaming the display to client iOS devices. That's not native whatsoever. Native is a compiled app using Apple's ObjC/Swift/Metal frameworks.
    It seems I forgot to post an “/s” following my post. 

    Can you imagine what everyone would be doing if Apple allowed cloud? Epic snd all the rest of the sleaze would be trying to use that to redefine what an App Store is and try to assault iPhone users with untold number of crap schemes. 

    At first, I’ll be honest, I thought Apple was wrong about xcloud initially. 

    But after the epic slime fest, it seems Apple had great foresight. 
  • Reply 4 of 52
    thttht Posts: 5,608member
    tht said:
    Coulda had an iPhone native halo? Dang. 
    That's not my read. It's still a cloud streamed game, it would just have an individual listing in Apple's App Store instead of an XBox cloud store app.

    So, Halo would be running on a PC or Xbox in a data center, and streaming the display to client iOS devices. That's not native whatsoever. Native is a compiled app using Apple's ObjC/Swift/Metal frameworks.
    It seems I forgot to post an “/s” following my post. 

    Can you imagine what everyone would be doing if Apple allowed cloud? Epic snd all the rest of the sleaze would be trying to use that to redefine what an App Store is and try to assault iPhone users with untold number of crap schemes. 

    At first, I’ll be honest, I thought Apple was wrong about xcloud initially. 

    But after the epic slime fest, it seems Apple had great foresight. 
    My apologies for not getting the sarcasm. Yes, cloud streaming is basically a Trojan horse. Microsoft retains all the value, all the leverage, and Apple would basically be at their mercy if cloud gaming takes off.

    Gaming is one of Apple's Achilles' heels. They see the value in video and music streaming services, and spend billions every year to develop them. Gaming is basically another vital consumer service, yet they are relying on 3rd parties to provide it. They need to put a lot more money into to make it a thriving service on all their platforms. Perhaps their real push for it will be for the VR/AR headset.
    9secondkox2
  • Reply 5 of 52
    tht said:
    tht said:
    Coulda had an iPhone native halo? Dang. 
    That's not my read. It's still a cloud streamed game, it would just have an individual listing in Apple's App Store instead of an XBox cloud store app.

    So, Halo would be running on a PC or Xbox in a data center, and streaming the display to client iOS devices. That's not native whatsoever. Native is a compiled app using Apple's ObjC/Swift/Metal frameworks.
    It seems I forgot to post an “/s” following my post. 

    Can you imagine what everyone would be doing if Apple allowed cloud? Epic snd all the rest of the sleaze would be trying to use that to redefine what an App Store is and try to assault iPhone users with untold number of crap schemes. 

    At first, I’ll be honest, I thought Apple was wrong about xcloud initially. 

    But after the epic slime fest, it seems Apple had great foresight. 
    My apologies for not getting the sarcasm. Yes, cloud streaming is basically a Trojan horse. Microsoft retains all the value, all the leverage, and Apple would basically be at their mercy if cloud gaming takes off.

    Gaming is one of Apple's Achilles' heels. They see the value in video and music streaming services, and spend billions every year to develop them. Gaming is basically another vital consumer service, yet they are relying on 3rd parties to provide it. They need to put a lot more money into to make it a thriving service on all their platforms. Perhaps their real push for it will be for the VR/AR headset.
    This seems rather short-sighted on Apple's part, and possibly related to the age of senior management. The company has a strong position in music, and is building towards a strong position in video, yet gaming has higher revenues than both of those two segments combined and Apple's not pushing strongly in that area.

    Or maybe that's just because Apple develops in private rather than in public. Perhaps the gaming push takes longer to bring to fruition, and video was seen as easy pickings while the hard work behind the scenes continues. It won't be about the money required; at this stage that is the least relevant bottleneck at Apple.

    The VR/AR angle... maybe. We're probably five years away from commercial viability, so it would make sense to be building the gaming capability right now. And if it takes off, then it will possibly have been worth ignoring/snubbing the gaming community for so long - but it's going to take so long to overcome that negative sentiment that I can't understand why steps to that effect have not been taken already.

    Or maybe that's all built into the Apple Arcade strategy: a bet that casual gaming is more important than dedicated gaming (removing complexity/hardware requirements to bring in a wider audience; very Apple), that can be monetised in a reasonable way across (eventually) hundreds of millions of subscribers, and that can be controlled by Apple being selective in who they partner with. And the dedicated gamers, like the specifications-obsessed computer nerds, can carry on bitching while Apple ignores them and profitably serves the customers who see the value in what is offered.
  • Reply 6 of 52
    ciacia Posts: 267member
    You all remember that Halo was going to be a Mac exclusive title before Microsoft bought Bungie right?  

    Reveal at Macworld 1999:  
    elijahg
  • Reply 7 of 52
    thttht Posts: 5,608member
    cia said:
    You all remember that Halo was going to be a Mac exclusive title before Microsoft bought Bungie right?  
    I think I remember the presentation, but I didn't follow FPS games much. What hurt me more was when Microsoft bought Ensemble Studios, which likely meant AoE 3 wasn't going to have a Mac version, and it came to pass.

    Microsoft bought Minecraft for $2b! Apple better be paranoid about it. Optimistic scenario is like Office: it will run and support 95% of the features on macOS, with Windows Office greatly optimized and supporting all the features. Pessimistic scenario: it's a sideshow for MS and suffers the typical vicious spiral on macOS.


  • Reply 8 of 52
    ciacia Posts: 267member
    tht said:
    cia said:
    You all remember that Halo was going to be a Mac exclusive title before Microsoft bought Bungie right?  
    I think I remember the presentation, but I didn't follow FPS games much. What hurt me more was when Microsoft bought Ensemble Studios, which likely meant AoE 3 wasn't going to have a Mac version, and it came to pass.

    Microsoft bought Minecraft for $2b! Apple better be paranoid about it. Optimistic scenario is like Office: it will run and support 95% of the features on macOS, with Windows Office greatly optimized and supporting all the features. Pessimistic scenario: it's a sideshow for MS and suffers the typical vicious spiral on macOS.


    Microsoft buying Minecraft for 2b and Facebook buying Instagram for only 1b are probably two of the greatest business deals that everyone shit on in the immediate aftermath.  Now all these years later they turned out to be genius level moves.

    /edit. And I guess MSFT buying Bungie could be up there as well, since Halo has clearly done pretty well for them as a franchise.
    edited December 2021
  • Reply 9 of 52
    rmoormoo Posts: 30member
    tht said:
    tht said:
    Coulda had an iPhone native halo? Dang. 
    That's not my read. It's still a cloud streamed game, it would just have an individual listing in Apple's App Store instead of an XBox cloud store app.

    So, Halo would be running on a PC or Xbox in a data center, and streaming the display to client iOS devices. That's not native whatsoever. Native is a compiled app using Apple's ObjC/Swift/Metal frameworks.
    It seems I forgot to post an “/s” following my post. 

    Can you imagine what everyone would be doing if Apple allowed cloud? Epic snd all the rest of the sleaze would be trying to use that to redefine what an App Store is and try to assault iPhone users with untold number of crap schemes. 

    At first, I’ll be honest, I thought Apple was wrong about xcloud initially. 

    But after the epic slime fest, it seems Apple had great foresight. 
    My apologies for not getting the sarcasm. Yes, cloud streaming is basically a Trojan horse. Microsoft retains all the value, all the leverage, and Apple would basically be at their mercy if cloud gaming takes off.
    This is silly. It isn't that cloud streaming is a "Trojan horse." It is that if you are a software and internet services company - which Microsoft and Google currently are and Nvidia aspires to be - then you have every interest in video gaming migrating from hardware platforms to software and cloud ones. Microsoft and Google make almost nothing on hardware. Nvidia does, but by selling a $200 part to go in a machine that costs $2000. A hardware independent streaming model where revenue can be generated by maximizing ad and subscription revenue to the widest number of users - the same that YouTube, Netflix, Disney+, Spotify, Apple Music etc. rely on - is absolutely preferable to what exists now. For all that console gaming - for example - is discussed, it really is a tiny niche subculture. The combined sales of an XBox, Nintendo and PlayStation console during a typical 7 year generation is about 250 million. You break it down and it is even worse: many people buy all 3 (or at least 2 of the 3) and some people buy multiple (an XBox for each room in their house, or their PS breaks, or they buy one early in the cycle and then buy another when the refresh with better specs hits) so you really are talking about 50-100 million people. These people are ardent mind you - they buy the consoles and accessories, watch Twitch and YouTube for hours daily, pay $70 for the games plus who knows how much more for the DLC etc. - but it isn't that many of them. Cloud gaming is a way of expanding from that 50-100 million (again, console only, I guess if you include PC gaming you could double that) into the 1.5 billion people who buy smartphones and tablets each year. If they are able to get a mere fraction of that market, they could double or triple the size of the current console and AAA gaming industry. And if the new customers they pull in take the $500 that they would spend on a PlayStation or $3000 that they would spend on a gaming rig and use that to buy games instead? Even better. 

    So, it isn't a "Trojan horse conspiracy" to harm Apple. It is more akin to how the rise of Netflix and similar streaming services WERE NOT in the interests of DVD and Blu-ray manufacturers. By the way, Apple totally helped this trend along. They removed CD/DVD/Blu-ray discs from Macs to "encourage" downloading media from iTunes instead. They also created servers and storage media to handle the massive media libraries that they wanted people to download, and the original purpose of the Apple TV was to facilitate people streaming their iTunes content (instead of playing music CDs and movie DVDs). Was it a conspiracy to harm Sony, Samsung and other electronics manufacturers? Nope. It was merely Apple - who didn't manufacture DVD and Blu-ray players or have retail operations to sell DVDs - pursuing their own commercial interests. Which is exactly what Nvidia, Microsoft and Google are doing here.   
    muthuk_vanalingamAlex_VIreneW
  • Reply 10 of 52
    mcdavemcdave Posts: 1,927member
    tht said:
    tht said:
    Coulda had an iPhone native halo? Dang. 
    That's not my read. It's still a cloud streamed game, it would just have an individual listing in Apple's App Store instead of an XBox cloud store app.

    So, Halo would be running on a PC or Xbox in a data center, and streaming the display to client iOS devices. That's not native whatsoever. Native is a compiled app using Apple's ObjC/Swift/Metal frameworks.
    It seems I forgot to post an “/s” following my post. 

    Can you imagine what everyone would be doing if Apple allowed cloud? Epic snd all the rest of the sleaze would be trying to use that to redefine what an App Store is and try to assault iPhone users with untold number of crap schemes. 

    At first, I’ll be honest, I thought Apple was wrong about xcloud initially. 

    But after the epic slime fest, it seems Apple had great foresight. 
    My apologies for not getting the sarcasm. Yes, cloud streaming is basically a Trojan horse. Microsoft retains all the value, all the leverage, and Apple would basically be at their mercy if cloud gaming takes off.

    Gaming is one of Apple's Achilles' heels. They see the value in video and music streaming services, and spend billions every year to develop them. Gaming is basically another vital consumer service, yet they are relying on 3rd parties to provide it. They need to put a lot more money into to make it a thriving service on all their platforms. Perhaps their real push for it will be for the VR/AR headset.
    This seems rather short-sighted on Apple's part, and possibly related to the age of senior management…

    Or maybe that's all built into the Apple Arcade strategy: a bet that casual gaming is more important than dedicated gaming (removing complexity/hardware requirements to bring in a wider audience; very Apple), that can be monetised in a reasonable way across (eventually) hundreds of millions of subscribers, and that can be controlled by Apple being selective in who they partner with. And the dedicated gamers, like the specifications-obsessed computer nerds, can carry on bitching while Apple ignores them and profitably serves the customers who see the value in what is offered.
    Bingo, except it’s already happening with the Epic trial disclosures indicating a huge slice of App Store revenue is already from gaming making iOS the largest, most lucrative gaming platform already.

    Perhaps that age brought more wisdom than shortsightedness.
  • Reply 11 of 52
    thttht Posts: 5,608member
    rmoo said:
    So, it isn't a "Trojan horse conspiracy" to harm Apple. It is more akin to how the rise of Netflix and similar streaming services WERE NOT in the interests of DVD and Blu-ray manufacturers. By the way, Apple totally helped this trend along. They removed CD/DVD/Blu-ray discs from Macs to "encourage" downloading media from iTunes instead. They also created servers and storage media to handle the massive media libraries that they wanted people to download, and the original purpose of the Apple TV was to facilitate people streaming their iTunes content (instead of playing music CDs and movie DVDs). Was it a conspiracy to harm Sony, Samsung and other electronics manufacturers? Nope. It was merely Apple - who didn't manufacture DVD and Blu-ray players or have retail operations to sell DVDs - pursuing their own commercial interests. Which is exactly what Nvidia, Microsoft and Google are doing here.   
    Yes, from the cloud streamer service perspective, they want to have their services spread as far and wide as possible. On the other hand, the big incumbents know that they also compete with each other. They all have bigger aspirations. Eg, Google did not put Youtube on Windows Mobile way back when nor on Amazon tablets to this day (I think?), or the occasional wrangling of having Youtube on whatever streamer hardware, like the recent negotiations with Roku. Roku would be a shadow of itself without Youtube, right? Who do you think had leverage there?

    All the big incumbents are in a constant state of competition, and increasing the power of one big incumbent with a nice deal may come back to haunt them later. For cloud gaming, almost anything cloud, it commoditizes the client hardware and further locks down software to the cloud streamers hardware. It's another cycle of the client vs server war. It is great for people to have access to games and other software, but all PC OEMs have to look pretty wearily at it. For all these companies competing against each other, it's life and death.

    Why buy a $3000 gaming PC if a $1000 PC would do the same job playing a streamed game? Client PC OEMs relying on sales of their premium hardware probably don't like the sound of that. For Apple, it goes even further. Cloud services and cloud gaming puts them further into the hole they are already in. Games and apps are coded with CUDA and Direct3D, proprietary languages. It's basically a form of lock-in because it takes a lot of time and effort to code to another language or API on another platform. Developers don't just happen to re-code to a different platform just for kicks. Cloud gaming only will cement this lock-in further.

    Nvidia and MS are at war with cloud gaming. Google thought they had a chance in this game too. The winner gets all the software optimized for their hardware using their platform. If that happens, it's basically a permanent win, or for at least a generation, where the winning company just does not have to worry about developers supporting their platform. That's a "printing money" prize for the winner. If Nvidia wins, it will get to the point that AMD will support CUDA on their GPUs, assuming Nvidia allows it.

    For Apple, who doesn't have a gaming ecosystem, successful cloud gaming is a death knell for Metal, and it puts a good dent in their differentiation that sells their expensive hardware. They have to know cloud everything is inevitable, and they at least were going to allow it as an app on iOS on their terms, but yeah, big companies are considering their self interest in all these deals. MS chose not to do it on Apple's terms. They also chose not to rewrite their games, and I want Age of Empires, using Apple's APIs. MS choses not put the full Office on Apple platforms, or they chose not to put Office on Linux at all. Of Google chooses to not put the full Google apps on iOS. I will bet a lot that if Facebook is successful with their Quest platform, they are going to use it as a cudgel to get other platform companies to agree to their terms.

    More than ever, Apple needs to become a game publisher and developer. 
    Alex_V
  • Reply 12 of 52
    Apple has an opportunity to be a video game titan if they want. 

    For whatever reason, they avoid it. 

    Apple Arcade is a fantastic idea. But it doesn’t have games beyond mobile quality outside of a couple old titles. 

    Apple has the best distribution platform snd it would be simple for a domination that is ripe for the happening. 

    Of course epic and Microsoft would complain. They’re doing that anyway. 

    Apple might as well gain. 

    But Apple would need to get serious and buy up some big studios. The returns would be huge. 

    A great start would be to buy star citizen and actually finish the game. Followed by seasonal add on campaigns and content. By itself that would be huge. 

    It could even use the arcade model with some games as standalone apps and others with apps that launch streams. All catalogued for seamless discover and launch through Apple Arcade. 

    It wouldn’t even require a console. Though the Apple TV seems like a great choice for an end all be all console/set top box. 

    Apple has already laid the foundation for the best infrastructure and best APIs to handle this with aplomb. They've got the hardware too. 

    It’s time to see them go for it. 

    Nintendo has an entire business that thrives. Microsoft is profiting heavily from Xbox. 

    Apple should get in on that too. 

    It’s not new for Apple to be in the content snd distribution game. Apple TV and music are doing it already. 

    No need to leave this on the table. 



  • Reply 13 of 52
    danvmdanvm Posts: 1,465member
    tht said:
    tht said:
    Coulda had an iPhone native halo? Dang. 
    That's not my read. It's still a cloud streamed game, it would just have an individual listing in Apple's App Store instead of an XBox cloud store app.

    So, Halo would be running on a PC or Xbox in a data center, and streaming the display to client iOS devices. That's not native whatsoever. Native is a compiled app using Apple's ObjC/Swift/Metal frameworks.
    It seems I forgot to post an “/s” following my post. 

    Can you imagine what everyone would be doing if Apple allowed cloud? Epic snd all the rest of the sleaze would be trying to use that to redefine what an App Store is and try to assault iPhone users with untold number of crap schemes. 

    At first, I’ll be honest, I thought Apple was wrong about xcloud initially. 

    But after the epic slime fest, it seems Apple had great foresight. 
    My apologies for not getting the sarcasm. Yes, cloud streaming is basically a Trojan horse. Microsoft retains all the value, all the leverage, and Apple would basically be at their mercy if cloud gaming takes off.

    Gaming is one of Apple's Achilles' heels. They see the value in video and music streaming services, and spend billions every year to develop them. Gaming is basically another vital consumer service, yet they are relying on 3rd parties to provide it. They need to put a lot more money into to make it a thriving service on all their platforms. Perhaps their real push for it will be for the VR/AR headset.
    Or maybe that's all built into the Apple Arcade strategy: a bet that casual gaming is more important than dedicated gaming (removing complexity/hardware requirements to bring in a wider audience; very Apple), that can be monetised in a reasonable way across (eventually) hundreds of millions of subscribers, and that can be controlled by Apple being selective in who they partner with. And the dedicated gamers, like the specifications-obsessed computer nerds, can carry on bitching while Apple ignores them and profitably serves the customers who see the value in what is offered.
    Maybe is not that Apple Arcade is more important than dedicated gaming.  It could be that Apple have no idea how to enter the dedicated gaming market.  As today, there are only three big names in hardware (MS, Sony and Nintendo), and the three of them have created their ecosystems and brand around huge names as Halo, GoW / Uncharted and Mario.  Apple don't have any presence in this market, and I haven't seen them do something to change that.  

    And you think there will be hundred of millions of Apple Arcade subscribers?  Everything is possible, but I don't see hundred of millions of customers subscribing to Apple Arcade, considering the games I'm seeing today.  But I could be wrong.  
  • Reply 14 of 52
    C'mon...Microsoft never needed a cloud based service in order to port some of their 1st party Xbox games to iOS. They just preferred to limit those games to their own platforms in the past. The idea that MS was just itching to port games to iOS and Apple spoiled their party by rejecting the streaming app is kind of ridiculous based on that past history. Seems more likely that MS just wanted an opportunity to bash Apple in the tech press while also getting some free promotional exposure for the internet based service they eventually released. 
  • Reply 15 of 52
    Apple Arcade is a fantastic idea. But it doesn’t have games beyond mobile quality outside of a couple old titles. 
    Mobile gaming now generates more revenue than console and PC gaming combined. From a market perspective, you can make an argument that Apple is currently in a better position per gaming than Microsoft. Yes, Apple doesn't do AAA games, but that's actually the niche in the gaming market now. 
  • Reply 16 of 52
    thttht Posts: 5,608member
    Apple Arcade is a fantastic idea. But it doesn’t have games beyond mobile quality outside of a couple old titles. 
    Mobile gaming now generates more revenue than console and PC gaming combined. From a market perspective, you can make an argument that Apple is currently in a better position per gaming than Microsoft. Yes, Apple doesn't do AAA games, but that's actually the niche in the gaming market now. 
    This is just a population trend. Touchscreen gaming is what "mobile gaming" is, correct? That's billions of phones versus tens to hundreds of millions of game consoles and PCs, iow, controller games. There isn't much overlap in the types of games people are playing between the two classes of devices. [In the Epic trial, Apple estimating that they have ~25% revenue share of the gaming market, all classes of games included. Didn't see numbers for Android. So perhaps if you include Apple, Android, and Nintendo Switch as "mobile" that would be greater than 50% revenue share, but who knows.]

    Maybe it will change in the future, but as it stands today, FPS gaming or controller gaming on macOS is effectively zero. You simply do not get a Mac if you want to play games let alone FPS games. That statement should really really hurt for Apple executives to hear. There aren't even smaller studios like a Bungie anymore who are developing FPS or RTS style games for macOS. Of the games, they are ports, not originating on macOS. If it wasn't for Java, the number of games running on macOS would be even smaller. Apple needs to sell cheaper Macs and become of game developer and publisher to get a foothold. Once there is a foothold, independent studios will start making games for macOS, but that foothold has to come from Apple now.

    Like, they could sell an AppleTV with a A12Z at $250, and it would be a performant enough to play most games. A controller needs to be in the box and Apple themselves have to develop games for it. It would be a feature freebie coming along with the video and music features. Apple just doesn't see macOS games as a strategic necessity.
  • Reply 17 of 52
    crowleycrowley Posts: 10,453member
    tht said:
    tht said:
    Coulda had an iPhone native halo? Dang. 
    That's not my read. It's still a cloud streamed game, it would just have an individual listing in Apple's App Store instead of an XBox cloud store app.

    So, Halo would be running on a PC or Xbox in a data center, and streaming the display to client iOS devices. That's not native whatsoever. Native is a compiled app using Apple's ObjC/Swift/Metal frameworks.
    It seems I forgot to post an “/s” following my post. 

    Can you imagine what everyone would be doing if Apple allowed cloud? Epic snd all the rest of the sleaze would be trying to use that to redefine what an App Store is and try to assault iPhone users with untold number of crap schemes. 

    At first, I’ll be honest, I thought Apple was wrong about xcloud initially. 

    But after the epic slime fest, it seems Apple had great foresight. 
    My apologies for not getting the sarcasm.
    I wouldn't apologise, the "sarcasm" wasn't at all clear.
    cia said:
    You all remember that Halo was going to be a Mac exclusive title before Microsoft bought Bungie right?  

    Reveal at Macworld 1999:  
    Ancient history.  Irrelevant at this point.
    edited December 2021
  • Reply 18 of 52
    tht said:
    Apple Arcade is a fantastic idea. But it doesn’t have games beyond mobile quality outside of a couple old titles. 
    Mobile gaming now generates more revenue than console and PC gaming combined. From a market perspective, you can make an argument that Apple is currently in a better position per gaming than Microsoft. Yes, Apple doesn't do AAA games, but that's actually the niche in the gaming market now. 
    This is just a population trend. Touchscreen gaming is what "mobile gaming" is, correct? That's billions of phones versus tens to hundreds of millions of game consoles and PCs, iow, controller games. There isn't much overlap in the types of games people are playing between the two classes of devices. [In the Epic trial, Apple estimating that they have ~25% revenue share of the gaming market, all classes of games included. Didn't see numbers for Android. So perhaps if you include Apple, Android, and Nintendo Switch as "mobile" that would be greater than 50% revenue share, but who knows.]

    Maybe it will change in the future, but as it stands today, FPS gaming or controller gaming on macOS is effectively zero. You simply do not get a Mac if you want to play games let alone FPS games. 
    Actually, there's quite a bit of crossover between PCs/consoles/mobile when it comes to indie games. Every gaming marketplace includes those kinds of games for sale, and they tend to be cheaper on mobile.

    Also, when you look at how MS completely ignored iOS in the past per game ports etc. and then they suddenly switch to highly public complaints about not getting their game streaming app into the App Store, that represents a significant change in attitude per mobile. 
    edited December 2021
  • Reply 19 of 52
    danvmdanvm Posts: 1,465member
    tht said:
    Apple Arcade is a fantastic idea. But it doesn’t have games beyond mobile quality outside of a couple old titles. 
    Mobile gaming now generates more revenue than console and PC gaming combined. From a market perspective, you can make an argument that Apple is currently in a better position per gaming than Microsoft. Yes, Apple doesn't do AAA games, but that's actually the niche in the gaming market now. 
    This is just a population trend. Touchscreen gaming is what "mobile gaming" is, correct? That's billions of phones versus tens to hundreds of millions of game consoles and PCs, iow, controller games. There isn't much overlap in the types of games people are playing between the two classes of devices. [In the Epic trial, Apple estimating that they have ~25% revenue share of the gaming market, all classes of games included. Didn't see numbers for Android. So perhaps if you include Apple, Android, and Nintendo Switch as "mobile" that would be greater than 50% revenue share, but who knows.]

    Maybe it will change in the future, but as it stands today, FPS gaming or controller gaming on macOS is effectively zero. You simply do not get a Mac if you want to play games let alone FPS games. That statement should really really hurt for Apple executives to hear. There aren't even smaller studios like a Bungie anymore who are developing FPS or RTS style games for macOS. Of the games, they are ports, not originating on macOS. If it wasn't for Java, the number of games running on macOS would be even smaller. Apple needs to sell cheaper Macs and become of game developer and publisher to get a foothold. Once there is a foothold, independent studios will start making games for macOS, but that foothold has to come from Apple now.

    Like, they could sell an AppleTV with a A12Z at $250, and it would be a performant enough to play most games. A controller needs to be in the box and Apple themselves have to develop games for it. It would be a feature freebie coming along with the video and music features. Apple just doesn't see macOS games as a strategic necessity.
    I'm not sure Apple would succeed in the console market with the type of games we are seeing today in Apple Arcade.  Apple gaming business is mostly casual gaming, and based in the most popular games I'm seeing in the App Store, I don't think customers will run to purchase a console to play those games.  Apple would have to do far more than they are doing today, specially when you consider the competition they'll have in MS, Sony and Nintendo.
  • Reply 20 of 52
    danvmdanvm Posts: 1,465member
    tht said:
    Apple Arcade is a fantastic idea. But it doesn’t have games beyond mobile quality outside of a couple old titles. 
    Mobile gaming now generates more revenue than console and PC gaming combined. From a market perspective, you can make an argument that Apple is currently in a better position per gaming than Microsoft. Yes, Apple doesn't do AAA games, but that's actually the niche in the gaming market now. 
    This is just a population trend. Touchscreen gaming is what "mobile gaming" is, correct? That's billions of phones versus tens to hundreds of millions of game consoles and PCs, iow, controller games. There isn't much overlap in the types of games people are playing between the two classes of devices. [In the Epic trial, Apple estimating that they have ~25% revenue share of the gaming market, all classes of games included. Didn't see numbers for Android. So perhaps if you include Apple, Android, and Nintendo Switch as "mobile" that would be greater than 50% revenue share, but who knows.]

    Maybe it will change in the future, but as it stands today, FPS gaming or controller gaming on macOS is effectively zero. You simply do not get a Mac if you want to play games let alone FPS games. 
    Actually, there's quite a bit of crossover between PCs/consoles/mobile when it comes to indie games. Every gaming marketplace includes those kinds of games for sale, and they tend to be cheaper on mobile.

    Also, when you look at how MS completely ignored iOS in the past per game ports etc. and then they suddenly switch to highly public complaints about not getting their game streaming app into the App Store, that represents a significant change in attitude per mobile. 
    iOS dominance is in casual gaming, where MS, Sony and Nintendo are more focused in the PC and console market.  So I don't think that they ignore iOS.  Is just that their business is more in line with consoles and PC's.  Now they have a platform where they can reach those mobile users, and Apple make rules to reject them.  IMO, those public complaints are reasonable.  As an Apple and MS customers, I would love to see a native app for GamePass and a Sony service in my iOS device.  Too bad Apple don't want to. 
    edited December 2021
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