India antitrust regulator launches probe into Apple App Store payments

Posted:
in iPhone edited December 2021
After a complaint by a consumer group in September, The India Competition Commission has formally ordered a probe looking into Apple's App Store payment system, commissions, and more.

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The Competition Commission of India (CCI) issued an order on Friday, formally launching the investigation that was requested in September. The CCI has 60 days to complete the investigation.

In a quote obtained by TechCrunch about the order, the agency says that it is looking into claims of excessive commissions for developers. Apple is said to "restrict the choice available to the app developers to select a payment processing system of their choice especially considering when it charges a commission of up to 30% for app purchases and in-app purchases."

The probe may expand beyond app payments. The investigation order also asks if Apple uses data it collects from potential competitive apps to improve its own services. It's not clear how this will be investigated by the commission.

The commission also added that it will look into the lack of third-party payment systems available to consumers. The complaint also states that "at this stage, it appears that the lack of competitive constraint in the distribution of mobile apps is likely to affect the terms on which Apple provide access to its App Store to the app developers, including the commission rates and terms that thwart certain app developers from using other in-app payment systems."

It's not clear if the commission is aware of the lower 15% fee on the first million dollars earned by developers, or the 30%/15% commission split on subscription fees after the first year of subscription. The commission has also not yet examined similar fees for Sony, Microsoft, Steam, and others on other platforms.

Apple's market presence in India is incredibly low. At the end of 2020, it was about 2% of the half-billion smartphones in India. Estimates aren't available for 2021 yet, but the share grew from 1% to 2% in five years.

The most recent international anti trust examination of Apple's App Store payment requirements is similar accusation to the current investigation by the European Union. It also follows South Korea voting to force Apple and Google to allow alternatives, if they want to continue operating in that country.

The complaint that spawned the investigation was filed by the non-profit organization called "Together We Fight Society." The group issued a statement at that time, saying that the complaint was filed in the interest of protecting Indian consumers and startups.

"Together We Fight Society" does not appear to have an online presence, nor filed any previous complaints in any issue. Other than it being based in Rajasthan, there are no details of its organization or members, and under Indian law the group's complaint is confidential.

In an interview published in September with India media, group founder Shivani Dharnia says that it had four major angles that it wanted addressed. Beyond the 30% commission, App Store removal of apps, App Store suspension reform, and App Store review guidelines where Apple is "not only the player" but "also the umpire."

Dharnia also says that they have a "water-tight case" against two more big tech firms -- but those complaints have not yet surfaced. It has previously filed a case against a reverse osmosis installation group, and an investigation of that is underway.

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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 33
    It wouldn't surprise me that this "Together We Fight Society" isn't yet another Epic backed group.
    genovelledewmeGeorgeBMacpichaelwatto_cobra
  • Reply 2 of 33
    genovellegenovelle Posts: 1,480member
    Maybe Apple should spin the App Store off as fully owned subsidiary like they did with FileMaker or even the Apple Store. In fact they should move it into the Apple Store and contract with them to manage the business. 

    That way they have the same protection for digital store profits as the brick and mortar like Walmart etc. The same with Apple Music. 
    the1maximuswatto_cobra
  • Reply 3 of 33
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 24,213member
    Does anyone still doubt that the AppStore model won't survive as currently done? All the "It's Apple's platform and Apple's rules" comments here over the past couple of years won't make one iota of difference. It's gonna change at both Google and Apple. And they will both still be ridiculously profitable after the changes that are being forced on them.
    muthuk_vanalingamapplguy
  • Reply 4 of 33
    gatorguy said:
    Does anyone still doubt that the AppStore model won't survive as currently done? All the "It's Apple's platform and Apple's rules" comments here over the past couple of years won't make one iota of difference. It's gonna change at both Google and Apple. And they will both still be ridiculously profitable after the changes that are being forced on them.
    Ridiculous comment. OF COURSE the "Apple's platform" and "Apple's rules" make a difference. Apple did create iOS/iPadOS/tvOS. Apple did create the App Store for iOS/iPadOS/tvOS. IMO, the legitimate issue per the App Store is NOT whether Apple can have control or make the rules, but more about whether Apple is living up to their public statements about how the App Store rules are applied. Are they really being enforced equally? Do certain developers get exceptions while others do not? Those kinds of questions make sense, but the stuff about "should Apple be allowed to have control of their own operating system or their own store" is ridiculous. 
    rob53leavingthebiggwilliamlondondewmered oakGeorgeBMacwatto_cobra
  • Reply 5 of 33
    It's too bad this article doesn't reference the pertinent Appleinsider article on this subject from two weeks ago.  Nevertheless, the choice of this news being the top story is interesting considering there's a top story elsewhere of a strike in India at an iPhone plant over a mass food poisoning incident.  IMO, these legal jousting stories aren't top billing until a final ruling is made and it alters Apple's business conduct.  
    williamlondonwatto_cobra
  • Reply 6 of 33
    Just close the apps store for 6 months or a year except Apple’s own apps…..for maintenance.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 7 of 33
    Gotta love how these idiots think they see a weakness because of someone else’s attack and then they pack like wild dogs. 

    Sheesh. Calm down and stop trying to ruin a great thing. 
    GeorgeBMacwatto_cobra
  • Reply 8 of 33
    rob53rob53 Posts: 3,251member
    gatorguy said:
    Does anyone still doubt that the AppStore model won't survive as currently done? All the "It's Apple's platform and Apple's rules" comments here over the past couple of years won't make one iota of difference. It's gonna change at both Google and Apple. And they will both still be ridiculously profitable after the changes that are being forced on them.
    Ridiculous comment. OF COURSE the "Apple's platform" and "Apple's rules" make a difference. Apple did create iOS/iPadOS/tvOS. Apple did create the App Store for iOS/iPadOS/tvOS. IMO, the legitimate issue per the App Store is NOT whether Apple can have control or make the rules, but more about whether Apple is living up to their public statements about how the App Store rules are applied. Are they really being enforced equally? Do certain developers get exceptions while others do not? Those kinds of questions make sense, but the stuff about "should Apple be allowed to have control of their own operating system or their own store" is ridiculous. 
    Agree with most of this. Of course some developers get better deals just like everywhere else. Quantity discounts are normal in all businesses. As for App Store search results, until all search engines are forced to be “fair” (whatever that means) Apple is no worse than anyone else. Like you I’m tired of people and misguided countries trying to grab money and control from Apple. It’s their business and I bet the majority of AAPL stockholders agree with you and me on this subject. Apple isn’t broken so quit trying to fix it!
    GeorgeBMacwatto_cobra
  • Reply 9 of 33
    I've said this a dozen times before, so I'm tired of repeating it, and my opponents are probably tired of arguing it with me, but Apple should allow users to install Android on iPhones (but NOT provide any support or any online services for it, because that would be up to Google.) This would get at least some of the regulators off Apple's back, because then users could get any app they wanted installed (that Google permits.) But if this still wasn't enough, and regulators weren't satisfied with this choice being handed to users, then Apple should stop selling iPhones in any jurisdiction/country which Apple deems "is hindering iOS security or the user experience."
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 10 of 33
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 24,213member
    gatorguy said:
    Does anyone still doubt that the AppStore model won't survive as currently done? All the "It's Apple's platform and Apple's rules" comments here over the past couple of years won't make one iota of difference. It's gonna change at both Google and Apple. And they will both still be ridiculously profitable after the changes that are being forced on them.
    Ridiculous comment. OF COURSE the "Apple's platform" and "Apple's rules" make a difference. Apple did create iOS/iPadOS/tvOS. Apple did create the App Store for iOS/iPadOS/tvOS. IMO, the legitimate issue per the App Store is NOT whether Apple can have control or make the rules, but more about whether Apple is living up to their public statements about how the App Store rules are applied. Are they really being enforced equally? Do certain developers get exceptions while others do not? Those kinds of questions make sense, but the stuff about "should Apple be allowed to have control of their own operating system or their own store" is ridiculous. 
    If Apple is the only one permitted to make and enforce the rules on "their platform" then regulators can't force changes on them. Yet they have, South Korea, Japan, and Dutch regulators so far for example, in addition to a US District Court ruling. Definitively it's not just Apple's store to regulate as they see fit, just as Google's Play Store is not Google's alone to rule over.
    muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 11 of 33
    I've said this a dozen times before, so I'm tired of repeating it, and my opponents are probably tired of arguing it with me, but Apple should allow users to install Android on iPhones (but NOT provide any support or any online services for it, because that would be up to Google.) This would get at least some of the regulators off Apple's back, because then users could get any app they wanted installed (that Google permits.) But if this still wasn't enough, and regulators weren't satisfied with this choice being handed to users, then Apple should stop selling iPhones in any jurisdiction/country which Apple deems "is hindering iOS security or the user experience."
    Total nonsense!
    williamlondondanoxmaximarawatto_cobra
  • Reply 12 of 33
    danoxdanox Posts: 2,869member
    gatorguy said:
    Does anyone still doubt that the AppStore model won't survive as currently done? All the "It's Apple's platform and Apple's rules" comments here over the past couple of years won't make one iota of difference. It's gonna change at both Google and Apple. And they will both still be ridiculously profitable after the changes that are being forced on them.
    Ridiculous comment. OF COURSE the "Apple's platform" and "Apple's rules" make a difference. Apple did create iOS/iPadOS/tvOS. Apple did create the App Store for iOS/iPadOS/tvOS. IMO, the legitimate issue per the App Store is NOT whether Apple can have control or make the rules, but more about whether Apple is living up to their public statements about how the App Store rules are applied. Are they really being enforced equally? Do certain developers get exceptions while others do not? Those kinds of questions make sense, but the stuff about "should Apple be allowed to have control of their own operating system or their own store" is ridiculous. 

    In life the big people/companies ie the (RICH) get further ahead by being flavored (see Google-Apple) 15 billion per year paid to Apple, and the free, subscriptions Apps by the big boys are slowly killing most of small companies. Apple making Keynote-Pages-Numbers free pulled the rug out from under many small to medium sized companies (in word processing in particular).

    Apple has also let Uber, Facebook, Microsoft, Google over the years hack away without any real consequences. (and no that brief timeout a few years ago doesn’t count).

    Apple will soon have one set of full featured iPhone/iPad/Mac/Watch in the US, Japan, and Canada and then a lesser different set of products for the rest of the world….
    edited December 2021 watto_cobra
  • Reply 13 of 33
    lkrupplkrupp Posts: 10,557member
    Kuyangkoh said:
    Just close the apps store for 6 months or a year except Apple’s own apps…..for maintenance.
    I think the entire issue boils down to the fact that users cannot download and install apps other than from the App Store. If Apple were to allow so-called ‘side loading’ all of these anti-trust issues would disappear instantly. You’re a developer who doesn't like Apple’s App Store policies and commissions? Fine, build your own store, market it, support it, police it, do whatever you want with it... it’s yours. 
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 14 of 33
    I've said this a dozen times before, so I'm tired of repeating it, and my opponents are probably tired of arguing it with me, but Apple should allow users to install Android on iPhones (but NOT provide any support or any online services for it, because that would be up to Google.) This would get at least some of the regulators off Apple's back, because then users could get any app they wanted installed (that Google permits.) But if this still wasn't enough, and regulators weren't satisfied with this choice being handed to users, then Apple should stop selling iPhones in any jurisdiction/country which Apple deems "is hindering iOS security or the user experience."
    Total nonsense!
    Once again he argues a completely nonsensical position completely unashamedly, proving how little he knows about running an actual business, product strategy or product development.

    And that's why they added things like "block lists" to these forums.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 15 of 33
    danoxdanox Posts: 2,869member
    lkrupp said:
    Kuyangkoh said:
    Just close the apps store for 6 months or a year except Apple’s own apps…..for maintenance.
    I think the entire issue boils down to the fact that users cannot download and install apps other than from the App Store. If Apple were to allow so-called ‘side loading’ all of these anti-trust issues would disappear instantly. You’re a developer who doesn't like Apple’s App Store policies and commissions? Fine, build your own store, market it, support it, police it, do whatever you want with it... it’s yours. 
    lkrupp said:
    Kuyangkoh said:
    Just close the apps store for 6 months or a year except Apple’s own apps…..for maintenance.
    I think the entire issue boils down to the fact that users cannot download and install apps other than from the App Store. If Apple were to allow so-called ‘side loading’ all of these anti-trust issues would disappear instantly. You’re a developer who doesn't like Apple’s App Store policies and commissions? Fine, build your own store, market it, support it, police it, do whatever you want with it... it’s yours. 
    On the desktop that works, but on a small screen device that also acts as a wallet, a keeper of health info and a potential life saving connection to world side loading is a no go. A phone has to work as a phone first and foremost.
    GeorgeBMacwatto_cobra
  • Reply 16 of 33
    gatorguy said: If Apple is the only one permitted to make and enforce the rules on "their platform" then regulators can't force changes on them. Yet they have, South Korea, Japan, and Dutch regulators so far for example, in addition to a US District Court ruling. Definitively it's not just Apple's store to regulate as they see fit, just as Google's Play Store is not Google's alone to rule over.
    Business is always subject to government regulation. Apple can control the App Store and make the rules for it while still participating in a regulatory environment. That's what all the retail behemoths do with their brick/mortar stores and their digital stores. They have control, but that doesn't mean they have carte blanche. Not the same thing. 
    GeorgeBMacwilliamlondonwatto_cobra
  • Reply 17 of 33
    lkrupp said:
    Kuyangkoh said:
    Just close the apps store for 6 months or a year except Apple’s own apps…..for maintenance.
    I think the entire issue boils down to the fact that users cannot download and install apps other than from the App Store. If Apple were to allow so-called ‘side loading’ all of these anti-trust issues would disappear instantly. You’re a developer who doesn't like Apple’s App Store policies and commissions? Fine, build your own store, market it, support it, police it, do whatever you want with it... it’s yours. 
    Not being able to install apps from anywhere other than the App Store on Apple's own hardware isn't an anti-trust issue. App developers are not limited to iOS/iPadOS/tvOS in terms of a market. They can sell the same apps on a variety of other platforms, including Android, macOS, Windows, console operating systems, etc. The BlueMail anti-trust lawsuit was dismissed from court for that very reason. BlueMail actively promoted their success on other platforms and the judge referenced that in the dismissal. 
    edited January 2022 GeorgeBMacdanoxwatto_cobra
  • Reply 18 of 33
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 24,213member
    gatorguy said: If Apple is the only one permitted to make and enforce the rules on "their platform" then regulators can't force changes on them. Yet they have, South Korea, Japan, and Dutch regulators so far for example, in addition to a US District Court ruling. Definitively it's not just Apple's store to regulate as they see fit, just as Google's Play Store is not Google's alone to rule over.
    Business is always subject to government regulation. Apple can control the App Store and make the rules for it while still participating in a regulatory environment. That's what all the retail behemoths do with their brick/mortar stores and their digital stores. They have control, but that doesn't mean they have carte blanche. Not the same thing. 
    https://www.ped30.com/2022/01/01/apple-india-antitrust-prima-facia/

    36 months ago there were NO ongoing antitrust cases involving the App Store or Google Play that I'm aware of. Now there's a plethora of them, and across several continents and countries. You may like to believe that there's been no change and Apple is still firmly in control of their ecosystem. I mean it's theirs, right? I would beg to differ as do regulatory agencies around the world. Things will be changing over the next 36  months, and significantly so in my opinion. The days of Apple and Google saying "it's my way or the highway" are done. Now the two of them are wrangling for the least possible impact on their massive profit centers, and both understand there will be changes despite their preferences. 
    edited January 2022 muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 19 of 33
    Meanwhile in India, the Foxconn plant building iPhones was shut down because rats, worms in food, constant skin sores, no running water in hostels where workers stayed and eventually protests. Way to go Apple. I expect a press release shortly telling us the exact opposite of the facts.
    https://9to5mac.com/2021/12/30/iphone-plant-shutdown-india/
  • Reply 20 of 33
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    genovelle said:
    Maybe Apple should spin the App Store off as fully owned subsidiary like they did with FileMaker or even the Apple Store. In fact they should move it into the Apple Store and contract with them to manage the business. 

    That way they have the same protection for digital store profits as the brick and mortar like Walmart etc. The same with Apple Music. 

    A main purpose of the AppStore is to screen and approve each App for adherence to Apple's rules. 
    Spinning it off as an independent corp would eliminate that and hurt Apple's customers -- because it would essentially make iOS and open platform much like Windows.
    watto_cobra
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