...First of all, the PB867 is between 2X and 3X faster in any altivec related task. The simple fact is that even in most games the PB12 performs better than the iBook. The fact is that in Timed tests the PB12 manages to stay within 5-10% of the 15"PB867 even though it has no L3 vs 1MB in the 15" model. Check around the net. Look for timed tests not benchmarks which do not reveal the true performance picture.
Ignore Bullshiat sites like barefeats and see what the timed tests done by MacWorld reveal.....
I would not buy a G3 based machine as my only mac if I had any intentions of making extensive use of iApps, the shop, and/or VPC.
Also, the PB never gets HOT under battery power or under normal use. It costs more, but it is clearly superior in build and performance.
I agree completely, then why wouldn't Apple put a 1GHz G3 into the iBook? So what if a 1GHz G3 with 512 cache and a 200MHz FSB in some limited tasks is faster than the 867MHz Powerbook. The Powerbook has Altivec, DDR ram better graphics etc. Different market, different needs.
I'm sooooo confused. Marketing genius' making decisions based on fear of upsetting a mythical applecart, so to speak.
Yes and no, while the iBook price was unassailable 18 months ago, the wintel competition is starting to catch up in the budget category.
Price (not performance) is what drives the iBook's success, or at least has driven it to date. Apple should tweak the formula to make the iBook even cheaper and a better value as a budgt machine.
That includes a lower price and a bigger display.
899-1199-1399 would be a good start (with DVD ROM on the bottom end) and keep the iBook selling well in the face of stronger wintel competition (on entry level laptops) Even if the bumps are only incremental that's OK for now as there's no point doing a big redesign untill later in the year when many of the chip speed concerns will be righted -- if for no other reason than the much faster chips will be available for the PB's. It's the same reason you don't see a 15.4" Al PB, why do the redesign now, if they can't do a substantial bump to the innards?
And while dropping the price to compensate for relatively poor performance has never been the Apple, the iBook is different in that the price needs to drop if only because THAT is precisely the main motivating factor behind it's success.
two years ago wintel notebooks in this space were utterly pathetic, some budget offerings, though cheaper, still had NiMH batteries and huge bulky enclosures with tiny screens. Apple had good/great battery life, good laptop performance, and a small screen, with a small case at a competitive price. They sold well. Today the PC machines have caught up a lot. Many affordable models feature a bigger screen and thin bezel, weigh less than 7lbs and have the same I/O.
Survey after survey proves that buyers in that price range overwhelmingly favor a larger screen and are willing to give up some portability. The 12" iBook only sells better because the price of the 14 is so much higher for the same overall performance. At the same price the 14 would kill the 12 in sales, but thats another story.
The iBook has to continue to evolve to stay a BUDGET price competitor or it's sales will fall off dramatically in the coming months. The price of entry is dropping rapidly in the wintel world.
Rather than get caught flat footed, Apple should work NOW to reduce the price of entry on the iBook further and keep sales and interest strong.
The iBook has to continue to evolve to stay a BUDGET price competitor or it's sales will fall off dramatically in the coming months. The price of entry is dropping rapidly in the wintel world.
Rather than get caught flat footed, Apple should work NOW to reduce the price of entry on the iBook further and keep sales and interest strong.
Amen...but I think Apple has slipped so far that it may require a little more than just a speed bump.
But I suspect the most we'll get is a jump to 900mhz G3 (Apple loves to milk a chip). It however could renew interest by just offering one 13.3 inch model with improved graphics and screen resolution.
It however could renew interest by just offering one 13.3 inch model with improved graphics and screen resolution.
I suspect Apple believes that if you want a larger screen, you will buy a PowerBook just because people buy really small laptops only to surf the Internet.
Apple needs a cheap model in each category (laptop/all-in-one/mini-tower), which is sold at near-to-zero profit margin just to increase their market share. Otherwise Dell will begin cranking out $500 laptops solely to kill Apple.
There is no reason to kill the 12"iBook or add a 13" version. Keep the 12", 14" and maybe add a 16" to the consumer line, make the prices reasonable and things will be fine. The market will decide which will be most popular and Apple won't lose money on the 12" even if the others sell better. It is called giving people choice and the extra savings and battery life of the 12" will be enough to keep it popular anyway, in my opinion. A 12" notebook is still a good size.
Apple's announcement in January that this would be the Year of the Laptop was a bold one, and will be thoroughly justified with the advent of impressive new iBooks in about a month's time...
What are these guys smoking? If Think Secret is even close to right, a 100Mhz increase is definitely nothing close to an impressive update.
Apple needs a cheap model in each category (laptop/all-in-one/mini-tower), which is sold at near-to-zero profit margin just to increase their market share. Otherwise Dell will begin cranking out $500 laptops solely to kill Apple.
The lie is that these are sold at near zero profit.
If Apple gets the rest of it's goodies in place, it can then start to make some money AFTER it gets the machine in the door.
PowerBooks and Powermacs have enough of a premium that they ought to include AT LEAST all the iApps plus a full featured Office suite. This is coming, Apple won't subsidize putting M$ Office on every pro mac, but they WILL have their own alternative, they're already making it (in pieces) with Keynote as the first part. I fully expect word and excel alternatives in the coming months. The only mistake is that they charge for them on the pro machines (evidence keynote's price tag) For the price of a PB, it ought to include that "free" or at a nominal price, like the teacher promo of a while back. Getting back to entru level macs.
These you can pare down to a slim price and NOT include an Office alternative but rather charge for it. Get the machines in the door then schools and business will have a reason to go with .mac, newer Apple software, mac peripherals (iPod only for now, but this could grow) etc etc... and the cash can flow.
Pro machines ought to be loaded from the outset, given the cost. Consumer machines can have iApps (that make them distinct from wintelon) and the option to buy alternative Apple software suites.
I recall some news a while back about Apple, Sun and Star Office. Apple really needs an Office suite.
They've basically told M$ to eat shiit (in the form of Safari) can Office be really far behind?
I don't think an Apple office suite is far behind. There's been a bit of talk about it, and it's essential if we want to even begin to break off from Microsoft. Keynote is proof that Apple is mindful about this. I think that once Apple gets a suite together, it should be included with every new Mac and offered very cheap to students and education faculty. I'm pretty sure that they'd also put it on the shelves, but I hope it's not a multi-hundred dollar box of software. Appleworks last came out at $79 retail, and I think that an MS Office comparable suite should cost no more than double that.
Sorry about discussing this. We should probably keep this thread on the iBook update track.
Comments
Originally posted by Matsu
Wow, have you actually used a PB12 and iBook ???
I have.
...First of all, the PB867 is between 2X and 3X faster in any altivec related task. The simple fact is that even in most games the PB12 performs better than the iBook. The fact is that in Timed tests the PB12 manages to stay within 5-10% of the 15"PB867 even though it has no L3 vs 1MB in the 15" model. Check around the net. Look for timed tests not benchmarks which do not reveal the true performance picture.
Ignore Bullshiat sites like barefeats and see what the timed tests done by MacWorld reveal.....
I would not buy a G3 based machine as my only mac if I had any intentions of making extensive use of iApps, the shop, and/or VPC.
Also, the PB never gets HOT under battery power or under normal use. It costs more, but it is clearly superior in build and performance.
I agree completely, then why wouldn't Apple put a 1GHz G3 into the iBook? So what if a 1GHz G3 with 512 cache and a 200MHz FSB in some limited tasks is faster than the 867MHz Powerbook. The Powerbook has Altivec, DDR ram better graphics etc. Different market, different needs.
I'm sooooo confused. Marketing genius' making decisions based on fear of upsetting a mythical applecart, so to speak.
Price (not performance) is what drives the iBook's success, or at least has driven it to date. Apple should tweak the formula to make the iBook even cheaper and a better value as a budgt machine.
That includes a lower price and a bigger display.
899-1199-1399 would be a good start (with DVD ROM on the bottom end) and keep the iBook selling well in the face of stronger wintel competition (on entry level laptops) Even if the bumps are only incremental that's OK for now as there's no point doing a big redesign untill later in the year when many of the chip speed concerns will be righted -- if for no other reason than the much faster chips will be available for the PB's. It's the same reason you don't see a 15.4" Al PB, why do the redesign now, if they can't do a substantial bump to the innards?
And while dropping the price to compensate for relatively poor performance has never been the Apple, the iBook is different in that the price needs to drop if only because THAT is precisely the main motivating factor behind it's success.
two years ago wintel notebooks in this space were utterly pathetic, some budget offerings, though cheaper, still had NiMH batteries and huge bulky enclosures with tiny screens. Apple had good/great battery life, good laptop performance, and a small screen, with a small case at a competitive price. They sold well. Today the PC machines have caught up a lot. Many affordable models feature a bigger screen and thin bezel, weigh less than 7lbs and have the same I/O.
Survey after survey proves that buyers in that price range overwhelmingly favor a larger screen and are willing to give up some portability. The 12" iBook only sells better because the price of the 14 is so much higher for the same overall performance. At the same price the 14 would kill the 12 in sales, but thats another story.
The iBook has to continue to evolve to stay a BUDGET price competitor or it's sales will fall off dramatically in the coming months. The price of entry is dropping rapidly in the wintel world.
Rather than get caught flat footed, Apple should work NOW to reduce the price of entry on the iBook further and keep sales and interest strong.
Originally posted by Matsu
The iBook has to continue to evolve to stay a BUDGET price competitor or it's sales will fall off dramatically in the coming months. The price of entry is dropping rapidly in the wintel world.
Rather than get caught flat footed, Apple should work NOW to reduce the price of entry on the iBook further and keep sales and interest strong.
Amen...but I think Apple has slipped so far that it may require a little more than just a speed bump.
But I suspect the most we'll get is a jump to 900mhz G3 (Apple loves to milk a chip). It however could renew interest by just offering one 13.3 inch model with improved graphics and screen resolution.
Originally posted by satchmo
It however could renew interest by just offering one 13.3 inch model with improved graphics and screen resolution.
I suspect Apple believes that if you want a larger screen, you will buy a PowerBook just because people buy really small laptops only to surf the Internet.
Apple needs a cheap model in each category (laptop/all-in-one/mini-tower), which is sold at near-to-zero profit margin just to increase their market share. Otherwise Dell will begin cranking out $500 laptops solely to kill Apple.
Apple's announcement in January that this would be the Year of the Laptop was a bold one, and will be thoroughly justified with the advent of impressive new iBooks in about a month's time...
What are these guys smoking? If Think Secret is even close to right, a 100Mhz increase is definitely nothing close to an impressive update.
Originally posted by costique
Apple needs a cheap model in each category (laptop/all-in-one/mini-tower), which is sold at near-to-zero profit margin just to increase their market share. Otherwise Dell will begin cranking out $500 laptops solely to kill Apple.
The lie is that these are sold at near zero profit.
If Apple gets the rest of it's goodies in place, it can then start to make some money AFTER it gets the machine in the door.
PowerBooks and Powermacs have enough of a premium that they ought to include AT LEAST all the iApps plus a full featured Office suite. This is coming, Apple won't subsidize putting M$ Office on every pro mac, but they WILL have their own alternative, they're already making it (in pieces) with Keynote as the first part. I fully expect word and excel alternatives in the coming months. The only mistake is that they charge for them on the pro machines (evidence keynote's price tag) For the price of a PB, it ought to include that "free" or at a nominal price, like the teacher promo of a while back. Getting back to entru level macs.
These you can pare down to a slim price and NOT include an Office alternative but rather charge for it. Get the machines in the door then schools and business will have a reason to go with .mac, newer Apple software, mac peripherals (iPod only for now, but this could grow) etc etc... and the cash can flow.
Pro machines ought to be loaded from the outset, given the cost. Consumer machines can have iApps (that make them distinct from wintelon) and the option to buy alternative Apple software suites.
I recall some news a while back about Apple, Sun and Star Office. Apple really needs an Office suite.
They've basically told M$ to eat shiit (in the form of Safari) can Office be really far behind?
Sorry about discussing this. We should probably keep this thread on the iBook update track.