What is left out, making this graph grossly misleading, is the context of the value of the wafers at the leading edge. This is where TSMC, followed by Samsung, and less so, Intel reside. It should also be noted that most of the design for these nodes occurs in the U.S.
The EU will have difficulty introducing leading edge nodes if they are not a primary designer of the silicon that is fabbed.
China at 14.4% has a mere rounding error of "leading edge" capacity at an inefficient version of 7nm, and is blocked by the U.S. and its allies from obtaining the equipment and building the supply chain necessary to compete.
It anything, Apple has ridden the wave of TSMC success, while providing the bulk of its revenues to continue that.
TSMC is being used as an excuse to sanction China. TSMC is only a fabrication business. It does not create intellectual property. It started for providing foundry service to chip company at small cost. It exploded because Apple started using TSMC to make chips for iPhone. As iPhone sales exploded in the last ten years, the small profit TSMC earns exploded because of volume.
TSMC is being used as an excuse to sanction China. TSMC is only a fabrication business. It does not create intellectual property. It started for providing foundry service to chip company at small cost. It exploded because Apple started using TSMC to make chips for iPhone. As iPhone sales exploded in the last ten years, the small profit TSMC earns exploded because of volume.
From the article;
Morris Chang founded TSMC in 1987 when Taiwan recruited him from the US to help build an electronics industry
The U.S. certainly had reasons then to encourage Taiwan, and it certainly has reasons now to protect Taiwan from China's embrace, and has numerous National Security reasons for wanting a TSMC fab in the U.S, and sanctions in China.
In this article we look at the importance of countries such as the US in the growth of the Taiwanese economy in the 1960s, and consider the role of the electronic industry in those Cold War years.
TSMC says efforts to rebuild US semiconductor industry are doomed to fail
Digital Equipment and Compaq seemed doomed and indeed they were. Apple and AMD seemed doomed but made amazing come backs. Point being — nothing is certain. Intel has a chance, but success is not guaranteed.
my hunch is intel will eventually make it, though. I’m more optimistic now than a few months ago. The recently released Raptor Lake is technologically inferior in many ways, but intel figured out a way to cobble together something that beats AMD at their own game. If intel actually ships products based on Intel 4 next year, I might actually buy their stock
What is left out, making this graph grossly misleading, is the context of the value of the wafers at the leading edge. This is where TSMC, followed by Samsung, and less so, Intel reside. It should also be noted that most of the design for these nodes occurs in the U.S.
The EU will have difficulty introducing leading edge nodes if they are not a primary designer of the silicon that is fabbed.
China at 14.4% has a mere rounding error of "leading edge" capacity at an inefficient version of 7nm, and is blocked by the U.S. and its allies from obtaining the equipment and building the supply chain necessary to compete.
It anything, Apple has ridden the wave of TSMC success, while providing the bulk of its revenues to continue that.
Context?
How much of the world's wafer output corresponds to cutting edge nodes?
Why is it misleading? The numbers are the same only the chart type is different.
They are not. See the link provided. Or just read the numbers that are clearly not the same. Hell the timescale isn't even the same so you should really pay more attention before leaning in.
A different timeline does not imply misleading. In the stacked area line chart the US in 2015 was at 12.6% which is slightly larger than 2020, and that correlates well with the 12% in AI's chart. Same goes for the US in 1995 vs 1990.
And the EU? And Japan?
They're clearly different, and the link will tell you why. Stop wasting my time.
EU is at 9.4% shrinks down to about 9% in 2020, Japan is a little different goes down to about 18% instead of 15%. In the end, nothing seems misleading about the chart AI used, it's just a different visual.
The truth of the facts is from 1990 to 2020 US market share dropped from 44% to 12%. Taiwan rose from 0% to 22%. Most of US market share loss went to Taiwan.
What is left out, making this graph grossly misleading, is the context of the value of the wafers at the leading edge. This is where TSMC, followed by Samsung, and less so, Intel reside. It should also be noted that most of the design for these nodes occurs in the U.S.
The EU will have difficulty introducing leading edge nodes if they are not a primary designer of the silicon that is fabbed.
China at 14.4% has a mere rounding error of "leading edge" capacity at an inefficient version of 7nm, and is blocked by the U.S. and its allies from obtaining the equipment and building the supply chain necessary to compete.
It anything, Apple has ridden the wave of TSMC success, while providing the bulk of its revenues to continue that.
Context?
How much of the world's wafer output corresponds to cutting edge nodes?
Less than 2%? And falling?
By your argument, sanctions on sales of advanced semiconductor manufacturing technology to China are of little concern...and yet, that is a real and significant imposition on China's growth, isn't it.
Fun facts;
California is set to surpass Germany as the world's fourth largest economy;
Why is it misleading? The numbers are the same only the chart type is different.
They are not. See the link provided. Or just read the numbers that are clearly not the same. Hell the timescale isn't even the same so you should really pay more attention before leaning in.
A different timeline does not imply misleading. In the stacked area line chart the US in 2015 was at 12.6% which is slightly larger than 2020, and that correlates well with the 12% in AI's chart. Same goes for the US in 1995 vs 1990.
And the EU? And Japan?
They're clearly different, and the link will tell you why. Stop wasting my time.
EU is at 9.4% shrinks down to about 9% in 2020, Japan is a little different goes down to about 18% instead of 15%. In the end, nothing seems misleading about the chart AI used, it's just a different visual.
Stop picking out the numbers that are vaguely similar and note the massively different other numbers. If you can't see them then get your eyes tested. Then read the linked article for the actual reason. Even the headline alone will make it eminently clear.
Blocking you now for persisting in wasting my time.
What is left out, making this graph grossly misleading, is the context of the value of the wafers at the leading edge. This is where TSMC, followed by Samsung, and less so, Intel reside. It should also be noted that most of the design for these nodes occurs in the U.S.
The EU will have difficulty introducing leading edge nodes if they are not a primary designer of the silicon that is fabbed.
China at 14.4% has a mere rounding error of "leading edge" capacity at an inefficient version of 7nm, and is blocked by the U.S. and its allies from obtaining the equipment and building the supply chain necessary to compete.
It anything, Apple has ridden the wave of TSMC success, while providing the bulk of its revenues to continue that.
Context?
How much of the world's wafer output corresponds to cutting edge nodes?
Less than 2%? And falling?
By your argument, sanctions on sales of advanced semiconductor manufacturing technology to China are of little concern...and yet, that is a real and significant imposition on China's growth, isn't it.
Fun facts;
California is set to surpass Germany as the world's fourth largest economy;
What is left out, making this graph grossly misleading, is the context of the value of the wafers at the leading edge. This is where TSMC, followed by Samsung, and less so, Intel reside. It should also be noted that most of the design for these nodes occurs in the U.S.
The EU will have difficulty introducing leading edge nodes if they are not a primary designer of the silicon that is fabbed.
China at 14.4% has a mere rounding error of "leading edge" capacity at an inefficient version of 7nm, and is blocked by the U.S. and its allies from obtaining the equipment and building the supply chain necessary to compete.
It anything, Apple has ridden the wave of TSMC success, while providing the bulk of its revenues to continue that.
Context?
How much of the world's wafer output corresponds to cutting edge nodes?
Less than 2%? And falling?
By your argument, sanctions on sales of advanced semiconductor manufacturing technology to China are of little concern...and yet, that is a real and significant imposition on China's growth, isn't it.
Fun facts;
California is set to surpass Germany as the world's fourth largest economy;
What is left out, making this graph grossly misleading, is the context of the value of the wafers at the leading edge. This is where TSMC, followed by Samsung, and less so, Intel reside. It should also be noted that most of the design for these nodes occurs in the U.S.
The EU will have difficulty introducing leading edge nodes if they are not a primary designer of the silicon that is fabbed.
China at 14.4% has a mere rounding error of "leading edge" capacity at an inefficient version of 7nm, and is blocked by the U.S. and its allies from obtaining the equipment and building the supply chain necessary to compete.
It anything, Apple has ridden the wave of TSMC success, while providing the bulk of its revenues to continue that.
Context?
How much of the world's wafer output corresponds to cutting edge nodes?
Less than 2%? And falling?
By your argument, sanctions on sales of advanced semiconductor manufacturing technology to China are of little concern...and yet, that is a real and significant imposition on China's growth, isn't it.
Fun facts;
California is set to surpass Germany as the world's fourth largest economy;
The concern is related to the damage the US is doing to its own industry. That is self harm.
US semi-conductor interests have taken a huge hit due to these unilateral extra-territorial sanctions.
In market value loss, the damage has been huge. In a more direct context the damage has also been huge. Lost revenues.
How is the industry supposed to move forward if it can't sell into its largest market? How is it supposed to generate funding for R&D?
Applied Research and NVIDIA will each take a $400mn hit in just one quarter.
And to make matters worse, the whole policy only serves to accelerate the inevitable. Chinese technological progress. Remember. No policymaker has ever mentioned 'stopping' China's progress. Simply slowing it down. Well, there is a short term and long term reading of that but the consensus is clear. China will get there.
Worse still, non-US interests have also been impacted because the rugs have been pulled out from under their feet. As a result, US technology is toxic to them and they are working to get it out of their products.
With the latest 'sanctions' it is actually worse because employees with US citizenship are probably going to lose their jobs at Chinese companies.
An executive at a Chinese semi-conductor company:
“Now we are not just trying to build up ‘US-free’ manufacturing lines but also de-Americanise the teams,” said the executive.
That's from a paywalled FT article.
Let's be clear, absolutely ALL semi-conductor companies want to do business with Chinese companies. Bar none.
Having to halt sales simply because their products contain a tiny amount of US technology has opened their eyes to extra-territorial interference. The same applies to government.
Everyone is reducing their dependence on US technology.
How does that look for US interests? Bread for today but hunger for tomorrow?
Then we have to deal with the completely crackpot ideas of some prominent US representatives. What you are about to read must have come from people who are literally detached from the real world.
They want Biden to interfere in Chinese sovereign activities on Chinese soil.
Read to believe! (and they are citing Bloomberg - yikes!)
"Dear President Biden,
We call on the administration to take immediate action to halt Huawei’s attempt to build the Pengxinwei IC Manufacturing Company (PXW) semiconductor foundry. This Huawei-aligned foundry is designed to fatally undermine the U.S. strategy to counter the Chinese Communist Party’s (CCP) bid to dominate global 5G markets and strengthen its intelligence and repression apparatus.
Bloomberg recently published evidence that Huawei began construction over seven months ago on a factory where PXW is expected to eventually mass produce chips as advanced as 14 nanometers and 7 nanometers. Almost all of these chips are expected to be sold to Huawei, and PXW reportedly has already ordered the advanced equipment necessary to build these chips. This would represent a dangerous leap in Chinese semiconductor manufacturing, as Chinese chipmakers have thus far only been able to produce 7-nanometer chips in limited quantities. With these new chips for its base stations, Huawei could resume its march towards 5G market dominance, and the CCP will advance its plan to control global telecommunications and extend its economic espionage and repression."
What is left out, making this graph grossly misleading, is the context of the value of the wafers at the leading edge. This is where TSMC, followed by Samsung, and less so, Intel reside. It should also be noted that most of the design for these nodes occurs in the U.S.
The EU will have difficulty introducing leading edge nodes if they are not a primary designer of the silicon that is fabbed.
China at 14.4% has a mere rounding error of "leading edge" capacity at an inefficient version of 7nm, and is blocked by the U.S. and its allies from obtaining the equipment and building the supply chain necessary to compete.
It anything, Apple has ridden the wave of TSMC success, while providing the bulk of its revenues to continue that.
Context?
How much of the world's wafer output corresponds to cutting edge nodes?
Less than 2%? And falling?
By your argument, sanctions on sales of advanced semiconductor manufacturing technology to China are of little concern...and yet, that is a real and significant imposition on China's growth, isn't it.
Fun facts;
California is set to surpass Germany as the world's fourth largest economy;
The concern is related to the damage the US is doing to its own industry. That is self harm.
US semi-conductor interests have taken a huge hit due to these unilateral extra-territorial sanctions.
In market value loss, the damage has been huge. In a more direct context the damage has also been huge. Lost revenues.
How is the industry supposed to move forward if it can't sell into its largest market? How is it supposed to generate funding for R&D?
Applied Research and NVIDIA will each take a $400mn hit in just one quarter.
And to make matters worse, the whole policy only serves to accelerate the inevitable. Chinese technological progress. Remember. No policymaker has ever mentioned 'stopping' China's progress. Simply slowing it down. Well, there is a short term and long term reading of that but the consensus is clear. China will get there.
Worse still, non-US interests have also been impacted because the rugs have been pulled out from under their feet. As a result, US technology is toxic to them and they are working to get it out of their products.
With the latest 'sanctions' it is actually worse because employees with US citizenship are probably going to lose their jobs at Chinese companies.
An executive at a Chinese semi-conductor company:
“Now we are not just trying to build up ‘US-free’ manufacturing lines but also de-Americanise the teams,” said the executive.
That's from a paywalled FT article.
Let's be clear, absolutely ALL semi-conductor companies want to do business with Chinese companies. Bar none.
Having to halt sales simply because their products contain a tiny amount of US technology has opened their eyes to extra-territorial interference. The same applies to government.
Everyone is reducing their dependence on US technology.
How does that look for US interests? Bread for today but hunger for tomorrow?
Then we have to deal with the completely crackpot ideas of some prominent US representatives. What you are about to read must have come from people who are literally detached from the real world.
They want Biden to interfere in Chinese sovereign activities on Chinese soil.
Read to believe! (and they are citing Bloomberg - yikes!)
"Dear President Biden,
We call on the administration to take immediate action to halt Huawei’s attempt to build the Pengxinwei IC Manufacturing Company (PXW) semiconductor foundry. This Huawei-aligned foundry is designed to fatally undermine the U.S. strategy to counter the Chinese Communist Party’s (CCP) bid to dominate global 5G markets and strengthen its intelligence and repression apparatus.
Bloomberg recently published evidence that Huawei began construction over seven months ago on a factory where PXW is expected to eventually mass produce chips as advanced as 14 nanometers and 7 nanometers. Almost all of these chips are expected to be sold to Huawei, and PXW reportedly has already ordered the advanced equipment necessary to build these chips. This would represent a dangerous leap in Chinese semiconductor manufacturing, as Chinese chipmakers have thus far only been able to produce 7-nanometer chips in limited quantities. With these new chips for its base stations, Huawei could resume its march towards 5G market dominance, and the CCP will advance its plan to control global telecommunications and extend its economic espionage and repression."
Not a word about 'national security' there. Just 5G dominance (commercial and technological interests). The espionage line is just more craziness.
LOL!
Uhm, "economic espionage and repression" are in fact valid National Security issues.
You are free to believe what you want, and for fuck sake, why would anyone want Huawei to "resume its march towards 5G market dominance".
Blackburn wants President Biden to step in and block delivery of any advanced equipment that has been ordered from the West for PXW. More to the point, why is anyone allowing advanced equipment sales to China at this point in time. I agree with that action. China is a threat to Taiwan.
According to Bloomberg sources, the Chinese tech conglomerate is now supporting a small startup ordering equipment for a semiconductor manufacturing plant. Purportedly, the new semiconductor plant, called Pengxinwei IC Manufacturing Co. (known as PXW) and run by a former Huawei executive, will be built close to the Huawei headquarters as it is expected to be the plant’s biggest customer, buying “most, if not all, of its output.”
If successful, this would allow Huawei to regain its footing and begin producing devices in earnest again. However, it remains to be seen if PXW will violate U.S. trade sanctions in supplying Huawei, as that would limit what equipment can be purchased by the company. Moreover, it is reported that the company’s first products, expected in 2025, will be on 28-nanometer technology leaving the plant six or more generations behind.
Given the accusations and evidence against Huawei, it will be difficult for any company to affiliate with the denylisted organization. Some of the U.S. restrictions may extend to this new company and prevent PXW from getting off the ground. However, if not, it still sounds like Huawei will be comparatively stuck in the stone age of semiconductors for a little while.
China continues to be a threat to the West and the existing rules of order. That's on Xi and his play for absolute power in China.
Fucking Europeans. Schotz will probably allow China's COSCO to own a portion of port facilities, even though his ministers are telling him no. When will they learn...
What is left out, making this graph grossly misleading, is the context of the value of the wafers at the leading edge. This is where TSMC, followed by Samsung, and less so, Intel reside. It should also be noted that most of the design for these nodes occurs in the U.S.
The EU will have difficulty introducing leading edge nodes if they are not a primary designer of the silicon that is fabbed.
China at 14.4% has a mere rounding error of "leading edge" capacity at an inefficient version of 7nm, and is blocked by the U.S. and its allies from obtaining the equipment and building the supply chain necessary to compete.
It anything, Apple has ridden the wave of TSMC success, while providing the bulk of its revenues to continue that.
Context?
How much of the world's wafer output corresponds to cutting edge nodes?
Less than 2%? And falling?
By your argument, sanctions on sales of advanced semiconductor manufacturing technology to China are of little concern...and yet, that is a real and significant imposition on China's growth, isn't it.
Fun facts;
California is set to surpass Germany as the world's fourth largest economy;
The concern is related to the damage the US is doing to its own industry. That is self harm.
US semi-conductor interests have taken a huge hit due to these unilateral extra-territorial sanctions.
In market value loss, the damage has been huge. In a more direct context the damage has also been huge. Lost revenues.
How is the industry supposed to move forward if it can't sell into its largest market? How is it supposed to generate funding for R&D?
Applied Research and NVIDIA will each take a $400mn hit in just one quarter.
And to make matters worse, the whole policy only serves to accelerate the inevitable. Chinese technological progress. Remember. No policymaker has ever mentioned 'stopping' China's progress. Simply slowing it down. Well, there is a short term and long term reading of that but the consensus is clear. China will get there.
Worse still, non-US interests have also been impacted because the rugs have been pulled out from under their feet. As a result, US technology is toxic to them and they are working to get it out of their products.
With the latest 'sanctions' it is actually worse because employees with US citizenship are probably going to lose their jobs at Chinese companies.
An executive at a Chinese semi-conductor company:
“Now we are not just trying to build up ‘US-free’ manufacturing lines but also de-Americanise the teams,” said the executive.
That's from a paywalled FT article.
Let's be clear, absolutely ALL semi-conductor companies want to do business with Chinese companies. Bar none.
Having to halt sales simply because their products contain a tiny amount of US technology has opened their eyes to extra-territorial interference. The same applies to government.
Everyone is reducing their dependence on US technology.
How does that look for US interests? Bread for today but hunger for tomorrow?
Then we have to deal with the completely crackpot ideas of some prominent US representatives. What you are about to read must have come from people who are literally detached from the real world.
They want Biden to interfere in Chinese sovereign activities on Chinese soil.
Read to believe! (and they are citing Bloomberg - yikes!)
"Dear President Biden,
We call on the administration to take immediate action to halt Huawei’s attempt to build the Pengxinwei IC Manufacturing Company (PXW) semiconductor foundry. This Huawei-aligned foundry is designed to fatally undermine the U.S. strategy to counter the Chinese Communist Party’s (CCP) bid to dominate global 5G markets and strengthen its intelligence and repression apparatus.
Bloomberg recently published evidence that Huawei began construction over seven months ago on a factory where PXW is expected to eventually mass produce chips as advanced as 14 nanometers and 7 nanometers. Almost all of these chips are expected to be sold to Huawei, and PXW reportedly has already ordered the advanced equipment necessary to build these chips. This would represent a dangerous leap in Chinese semiconductor manufacturing, as Chinese chipmakers have thus far only been able to produce 7-nanometer chips in limited quantities. With these new chips for its base stations, Huawei could resume its march towards 5G market dominance, and the CCP will advance its plan to control global telecommunications and extend its economic espionage and repression."
Not a word about 'national security' there. Just 5G dominance (commercial and technological interests). The espionage line is just more craziness.
LOL!
Uhm, "economic espionage and repression" are in fact valid National Security issues.
You are free to believe what you want, and for fuck sake, why would anyone want Huawei to "resume its march towards 5G market dominance".
Blackburn wants President Biden to step in and block delivery of any advanced equipment that has been ordered from the West for PXW. More to the point, why is anyone allowing advanced equipment sales to China at this point in time. I agree with that action. China is a threat to Taiwan.
According to Bloomberg sources, the Chinese tech conglomerate is now supporting a small startup ordering equipment for a semiconductor manufacturing plant. Purportedly, the new semiconductor plant, called Pengxinwei IC Manufacturing Co. (known as PXW) and run by a former Huawei executive, will be built close to the Huawei headquarters as it is expected to be the plant’s biggest customer, buying “most, if not all, of its output.”
If successful, this would allow Huawei to regain its footing and begin producing devices in earnest again. However, it remains to be seen if PXW will violate U.S. trade sanctions in supplying Huawei, as that would limit what equipment can be purchased by the company. Moreover, it is reported that the company’s first products, expected in 2025, will be on 28-nanometer technology leaving the plant six or more generations behind.
Given the accusations and evidence against Huawei, it will be difficult for any company to affiliate with the denylisted organization. Some of the U.S. restrictions may extend to this new company and prevent PXW from getting off the ground. However, if not, it still sounds like Huawei will be comparatively stuck in the stone age of semiconductors for a little while.
China continues to be a threat to the West and the existing rules of order. That's on Xi and his play for absolute power in China.
Fucking Europeans. Schotz will probably allow China's COSCO to own a portion of port facilities, even though his ministers are telling him no. When will they learn...
Huawei already has 5G dominance. Where have you been? Even now, it leads the market and has already 'de-Americanised' its ICT 5G product stack. It is now simply building out capacity.
China has no recent history of direct meddling in sovereign states through military action. It considers Taiwan part of China but apart from that there is no outward threat that has been singled out to the rest of the world.
'Repression' has nothing to do with US national security.
Apart from US 'sanctions' the rest of the world is eager to sell its technology to China. Yes, ASML and all the US tech industry included. Let that sink in.
You say you don't know why anyone would want to sell advanced tech to China. You are in a very small minority. The CEO of ASML has said more than once that the US approach will not work. Weaponising technology, forcing breakage of international supply lines and forcing sovereign nations to follow US orders or else has been a wake up call to the tech world.
There is nothing anyone is doing with the foundry equipment at that new site that contravenes US sanctions. Do you think ASML et al would risk that?
However, that said, US EDA software makers have said that they would rather Chinese companies 'cracked' their software than see a Chinese rival emerge from the sanctions. Too late for that I'm afraid as that ball is already rolling too.
The request to Biden just goes to show how out of touch with reality those folks are. Try to imagine things the other way around?
It is crazy.
Huawei alone has invested in over 40 semiconductor companies with the aim of rejigging its supply lines (all of them in detriment to US semiconductor industries).
What is left out, making this graph grossly misleading, is the context of the value of the wafers at the leading edge. This is where TSMC, followed by Samsung, and less so, Intel reside. It should also be noted that most of the design for these nodes occurs in the U.S.
The EU will have difficulty introducing leading edge nodes if they are not a primary designer of the silicon that is fabbed.
China at 14.4% has a mere rounding error of "leading edge" capacity at an inefficient version of 7nm, and is blocked by the U.S. and its allies from obtaining the equipment and building the supply chain necessary to compete.
It anything, Apple has ridden the wave of TSMC success, while providing the bulk of its revenues to continue that.
Context?
How much of the world's wafer output corresponds to cutting edge nodes?
Less than 2%? And falling?
By your argument, sanctions on sales of advanced semiconductor manufacturing technology to China are of little concern...and yet, that is a real and significant imposition on China's growth, isn't it.
Fun facts;
California is set to surpass Germany as the world's fourth largest economy;
The concern is related to the damage the US is doing to its own industry. That is self harm.
US semi-conductor interests have taken a huge hit due to these unilateral extra-territorial sanctions.
In market value loss, the damage has been huge. In a more direct context the damage has also been huge. Lost revenues.
How is the industry supposed to move forward if it can't sell into its largest market? How is it supposed to generate funding for R&D?
Applied Research and NVIDIA will each take a $400mn hit in just one quarter.
And to make matters worse, the whole policy only serves to accelerate the inevitable. Chinese technological progress. Remember. No policymaker has ever mentioned 'stopping' China's progress. Simply slowing it down. Well, there is a short term and long term reading of that but the consensus is clear. China will get there.
Worse still, non-US interests have also been impacted because the rugs have been pulled out from under their feet. As a result, US technology is toxic to them and they are working to get it out of their products.
With the latest 'sanctions' it is actually worse because employees with US citizenship are probably going to lose their jobs at Chinese companies.
An executive at a Chinese semi-conductor company:
“Now we are not just trying to build up ‘US-free’ manufacturing lines but also de-Americanise the teams,” said the executive.
That's from a paywalled FT article.
Let's be clear, absolutely ALL semi-conductor companies want to do business with Chinese companies. Bar none.
Having to halt sales simply because their products contain a tiny amount of US technology has opened their eyes to extra-territorial interference. The same applies to government.
Everyone is reducing their dependence on US technology.
How does that look for US interests? Bread for today but hunger for tomorrow?
Then we have to deal with the completely crackpot ideas of some prominent US representatives. What you are about to read must have come from people who are literally detached from the real world.
They want Biden to interfere in Chinese sovereign activities on Chinese soil.
Read to believe! (and they are citing Bloomberg - yikes!)
"Dear President Biden,
We call on the administration to take immediate action to halt Huawei’s attempt to build the Pengxinwei IC Manufacturing Company (PXW) semiconductor foundry. This Huawei-aligned foundry is designed to fatally undermine the U.S. strategy to counter the Chinese Communist Party’s (CCP) bid to dominate global 5G markets and strengthen its intelligence and repression apparatus.
Bloomberg recently published evidence that Huawei began construction over seven months ago on a factory where PXW is expected to eventually mass produce chips as advanced as 14 nanometers and 7 nanometers. Almost all of these chips are expected to be sold to Huawei, and PXW reportedly has already ordered the advanced equipment necessary to build these chips. This would represent a dangerous leap in Chinese semiconductor manufacturing, as Chinese chipmakers have thus far only been able to produce 7-nanometer chips in limited quantities. With these new chips for its base stations, Huawei could resume its march towards 5G market dominance, and the CCP will advance its plan to control global telecommunications and extend its economic espionage and repression."
Not a word about 'national security' there. Just 5G dominance (commercial and technological interests). The espionage line is just more craziness.
LOL!
Uhm, "economic espionage and repression" are in fact valid National Security issues.
You are free to believe what you want, and for fuck sake, why would anyone want Huawei to "resume its march towards 5G market dominance".
Blackburn wants President Biden to step in and block delivery of any advanced equipment that has been ordered from the West for PXW. More to the point, why is anyone allowing advanced equipment sales to China at this point in time. I agree with that action. China is a threat to Taiwan.
According to Bloomberg sources, the Chinese tech conglomerate is now supporting a small startup ordering equipment for a semiconductor manufacturing plant. Purportedly, the new semiconductor plant, called Pengxinwei IC Manufacturing Co. (known as PXW) and run by a former Huawei executive, will be built close to the Huawei headquarters as it is expected to be the plant’s biggest customer, buying “most, if not all, of its output.”
If successful, this would allow Huawei to regain its footing and begin producing devices in earnest again. However, it remains to be seen if PXW will violate U.S. trade sanctions in supplying Huawei, as that would limit what equipment can be purchased by the company. Moreover, it is reported that the company’s first products, expected in 2025, will be on 28-nanometer technology leaving the plant six or more generations behind.
Given the accusations and evidence against Huawei, it will be difficult for any company to affiliate with the denylisted organization. Some of the U.S. restrictions may extend to this new company and prevent PXW from getting off the ground. However, if not, it still sounds like Huawei will be comparatively stuck in the stone age of semiconductors for a little while.
China continues to be a threat to the West and the existing rules of order. That's on Xi and his play for absolute power in China.
Fucking Europeans. Schotz will probably allow China's COSCO to own a portion of port facilities, even though his ministers are telling him no. When will they learn...
Huawei already has 5G dominance. Where have you been? Even now, it leads the market and has already 'de-Americanised' its ICT 5G product stack. It is now simply building out capacity.
China has no recent history of direct meddling in sovereign states through military action. It considers Taiwan part of China but apart from that there is no outward threat that has been singled out to the rest of the world.
'Repression' has nothing to do with US national security.
Apart from US 'sanctions' the rest of the world is eager to sell its technology to China. Yes, ASML and all the US tech industry included. Let that sink in.
You say you don't know why anyone would want to sell advanced tech to China. You are in a very small minority. The CEO of ASML has said more than once that the US approach will not work. Weaponising technology, forcing breakage of international supply lines and forcing sovereign nations to follow US orders or else has been a wake up call to the tech world.
There is nothing anyone is doing with the foundry equipment at that new site that contravenes US sanctions. Do you think ASML et al would risk that?
However, that said, US EDA software makers have said that they would rather Chinese companies 'cracked' their software than see a Chinese rival emerge from the sanctions. Too late for that I'm afraid as that ball is already rolling too.
The request to Biden just goes to show how out of touch with reality those folks are. Try to imagine things the other way around?
It is crazy.
Huawei alone has invested in over 40 semiconductor companies with the aim of rejigging its supply lines (all of them in detriment to US semiconductor industries).
Good thing that the CEO of ASML doesn't get final say in where the equipment is sold, but I doubt that they are hurting for sales. As for EDA, I highly doubt that China will be able to create a stable of competitors in this decade.
Meanwhile, people of the countries in the West, have unfavorable opinions of China, and that is certainly having an effect on investment in China.
What is left out, making this graph grossly misleading, is the context of the value of the wafers at the leading edge. This is where TSMC, followed by Samsung, and less so, Intel reside. It should also be noted that most of the design for these nodes occurs in the U.S.
The EU will have difficulty introducing leading edge nodes if they are not a primary designer of the silicon that is fabbed.
China at 14.4% has a mere rounding error of "leading edge" capacity at an inefficient version of 7nm, and is blocked by the U.S. and its allies from obtaining the equipment and building the supply chain necessary to compete.
It anything, Apple has ridden the wave of TSMC success, while providing the bulk of its revenues to continue that.
Context?
How much of the world's wafer output corresponds to cutting edge nodes?
Less than 2%? And falling?
By your argument, sanctions on sales of advanced semiconductor manufacturing technology to China are of little concern...and yet, that is a real and significant imposition on China's growth, isn't it.
Fun facts;
California is set to surpass Germany as the world's fourth largest economy;
The concern is related to the damage the US is doing to its own industry. That is self harm.
US semi-conductor interests have taken a huge hit due to these unilateral extra-territorial sanctions.
In market value loss, the damage has been huge. In a more direct context the damage has also been huge. Lost revenues.
How is the industry supposed to move forward if it can't sell into its largest market? How is it supposed to generate funding for R&D?
Applied Research and NVIDIA will each take a $400mn hit in just one quarter.
And to make matters worse, the whole policy only serves to accelerate the inevitable. Chinese technological progress. Remember. No policymaker has ever mentioned 'stopping' China's progress. Simply slowing it down. Well, there is a short term and long term reading of that but the consensus is clear. China will get there.
Worse still, non-US interests have also been impacted because the rugs have been pulled out from under their feet. As a result, US technology is toxic to them and they are working to get it out of their products.
With the latest 'sanctions' it is actually worse because employees with US citizenship are probably going to lose their jobs at Chinese companies.
An executive at a Chinese semi-conductor company:
“Now we are not just trying to build up ‘US-free’ manufacturing lines but also de-Americanise the teams,” said the executive.
That's from a paywalled FT article.
Let's be clear, absolutely ALL semi-conductor companies want to do business with Chinese companies. Bar none.
Having to halt sales simply because their products contain a tiny amount of US technology has opened their eyes to extra-territorial interference. The same applies to government.
Everyone is reducing their dependence on US technology.
How does that look for US interests? Bread for today but hunger for tomorrow?
Then we have to deal with the completely crackpot ideas of some prominent US representatives. What you are about to read must have come from people who are literally detached from the real world.
They want Biden to interfere in Chinese sovereign activities on Chinese soil.
Read to believe! (and they are citing Bloomberg - yikes!)
"Dear President Biden,
We call on the administration to take immediate action to halt Huawei’s attempt to build the Pengxinwei IC Manufacturing Company (PXW) semiconductor foundry. This Huawei-aligned foundry is designed to fatally undermine the U.S. strategy to counter the Chinese Communist Party’s (CCP) bid to dominate global 5G markets and strengthen its intelligence and repression apparatus.
Bloomberg recently published evidence that Huawei began construction over seven months ago on a factory where PXW is expected to eventually mass produce chips as advanced as 14 nanometers and 7 nanometers. Almost all of these chips are expected to be sold to Huawei, and PXW reportedly has already ordered the advanced equipment necessary to build these chips. This would represent a dangerous leap in Chinese semiconductor manufacturing, as Chinese chipmakers have thus far only been able to produce 7-nanometer chips in limited quantities. With these new chips for its base stations, Huawei could resume its march towards 5G market dominance, and the CCP will advance its plan to control global telecommunications and extend its economic espionage and repression."
Not a word about 'national security' there. Just 5G dominance (commercial and technological interests). The espionage line is just more craziness.
LOL!
Uhm, "economic espionage and repression" are in fact valid National Security issues.
You are free to believe what you want, and for fuck sake, why would anyone want Huawei to "resume its march towards 5G market dominance".
Blackburn wants President Biden to step in and block delivery of any advanced equipment that has been ordered from the West for PXW. More to the point, why is anyone allowing advanced equipment sales to China at this point in time. I agree with that action. China is a threat to Taiwan.
According to Bloomberg sources, the Chinese tech conglomerate is now supporting a small startup ordering equipment for a semiconductor manufacturing plant. Purportedly, the new semiconductor plant, called Pengxinwei IC Manufacturing Co. (known as PXW) and run by a former Huawei executive, will be built close to the Huawei headquarters as it is expected to be the plant’s biggest customer, buying “most, if not all, of its output.”
If successful, this would allow Huawei to regain its footing and begin producing devices in earnest again. However, it remains to be seen if PXW will violate U.S. trade sanctions in supplying Huawei, as that would limit what equipment can be purchased by the company. Moreover, it is reported that the company’s first products, expected in 2025, will be on 28-nanometer technology leaving the plant six or more generations behind.
Given the accusations and evidence against Huawei, it will be difficult for any company to affiliate with the denylisted organization. Some of the U.S. restrictions may extend to this new company and prevent PXW from getting off the ground. However, if not, it still sounds like Huawei will be comparatively stuck in the stone age of semiconductors for a little while.
China continues to be a threat to the West and the existing rules of order. That's on Xi and his play for absolute power in China.
Fucking Europeans. Schotz will probably allow China's COSCO to own a portion of port facilities, even though his ministers are telling him no. When will they learn...
Huawei already has 5G dominance. Where have you been? Even now, it leads the market and has already 'de-Americanised' its ICT 5G product stack. It is now simply building out capacity.
China has no recent history of direct meddling in sovereign states through military action. It considers Taiwan part of China but apart from that there is no outward threat that has been singled out to the rest of the world.
'Repression' has nothing to do with US national security.
Apart from US 'sanctions' the rest of the world is eager to sell its technology to China. Yes, ASML and all the US tech industry included. Let that sink in.
You say you don't know why anyone would want to sell advanced tech to China. You are in a very small minority. The CEO of ASML has said more than once that the US approach will not work. Weaponising technology, forcing breakage of international supply lines and forcing sovereign nations to follow US orders or else has been a wake up call to the tech world.
There is nothing anyone is doing with the foundry equipment at that new site that contravenes US sanctions. Do you think ASML et al would risk that?
However, that said, US EDA software makers have said that they would rather Chinese companies 'cracked' their software than see a Chinese rival emerge from the sanctions. Too late for that I'm afraid as that ball is already rolling too.
The request to Biden just goes to show how out of touch with reality those folks are. Try to imagine things the other way around?
It is crazy.
Huawei alone has invested in over 40 semiconductor companies with the aim of rejigging its supply lines (all of them in detriment to US semiconductor industries).
China’s ‘secret police stations’ in UK must be investigated, say MPs
London and Glasgow claimed to be among list of operations to target critics and dissidents
China has been doing this around the world for quite some time. Have to make sure the diaspora don't forget who their bosses are. More than that, the influence operations that China conducts.
You might want to post about that, with your first hand knowledge and alll.
What is left out, making this graph grossly misleading, is the context of the value of the wafers at the leading edge. This is where TSMC, followed by Samsung, and less so, Intel reside. It should also be noted that most of the design for these nodes occurs in the U.S.
The EU will have difficulty introducing leading edge nodes if they are not a primary designer of the silicon that is fabbed.
China at 14.4% has a mere rounding error of "leading edge" capacity at an inefficient version of 7nm, and is blocked by the U.S. and its allies from obtaining the equipment and building the supply chain necessary to compete.
It anything, Apple has ridden the wave of TSMC success, while providing the bulk of its revenues to continue that.
Context?
How much of the world's wafer output corresponds to cutting edge nodes?
Less than 2%? And falling?
By your argument, sanctions on sales of advanced semiconductor manufacturing technology to China are of little concern...and yet, that is a real and significant imposition on China's growth, isn't it.
Fun facts;
California is set to surpass Germany as the world's fourth largest economy;
The concern is related to the damage the US is doing to its own industry. That is self harm.
US semi-conductor interests have taken a huge hit due to these unilateral extra-territorial sanctions.
In market value loss, the damage has been huge. In a more direct context the damage has also been huge. Lost revenues.
How is the industry supposed to move forward if it can't sell into its largest market? How is it supposed to generate funding for R&D?
Applied Research and NVIDIA will each take a $400mn hit in just one quarter.
And to make matters worse, the whole policy only serves to accelerate the inevitable. Chinese technological progress. Remember. No policymaker has ever mentioned 'stopping' China's progress. Simply slowing it down. Well, there is a short term and long term reading of that but the consensus is clear. China will get there.
Worse still, non-US interests have also been impacted because the rugs have been pulled out from under their feet. As a result, US technology is toxic to them and they are working to get it out of their products.
With the latest 'sanctions' it is actually worse because employees with US citizenship are probably going to lose their jobs at Chinese companies.
An executive at a Chinese semi-conductor company:
“Now we are not just trying to build up ‘US-free’ manufacturing lines but also de-Americanise the teams,” said the executive.
That's from a paywalled FT article.
Let's be clear, absolutely ALL semi-conductor companies want to do business with Chinese companies. Bar none.
Having to halt sales simply because their products contain a tiny amount of US technology has opened their eyes to extra-territorial interference. The same applies to government.
Everyone is reducing their dependence on US technology.
How does that look for US interests? Bread for today but hunger for tomorrow?
Then we have to deal with the completely crackpot ideas of some prominent US representatives. What you are about to read must have come from people who are literally detached from the real world.
They want Biden to interfere in Chinese sovereign activities on Chinese soil.
Read to believe! (and they are citing Bloomberg - yikes!)
"Dear President Biden,
We call on the administration to take immediate action to halt Huawei’s attempt to build the Pengxinwei IC Manufacturing Company (PXW) semiconductor foundry. This Huawei-aligned foundry is designed to fatally undermine the U.S. strategy to counter the Chinese Communist Party’s (CCP) bid to dominate global 5G markets and strengthen its intelligence and repression apparatus.
Bloomberg recently published evidence that Huawei began construction over seven months ago on a factory where PXW is expected to eventually mass produce chips as advanced as 14 nanometers and 7 nanometers. Almost all of these chips are expected to be sold to Huawei, and PXW reportedly has already ordered the advanced equipment necessary to build these chips. This would represent a dangerous leap in Chinese semiconductor manufacturing, as Chinese chipmakers have thus far only been able to produce 7-nanometer chips in limited quantities. With these new chips for its base stations, Huawei could resume its march towards 5G market dominance, and the CCP will advance its plan to control global telecommunications and extend its economic espionage and repression."
Not a word about 'national security' there. Just 5G dominance (commercial and technological interests). The espionage line is just more craziness.
LOL!
Uhm, "economic espionage and repression" are in fact valid National Security issues.
You are free to believe what you want, and for fuck sake, why would anyone want Huawei to "resume its march towards 5G market dominance".
Blackburn wants President Biden to step in and block delivery of any advanced equipment that has been ordered from the West for PXW. More to the point, why is anyone allowing advanced equipment sales to China at this point in time. I agree with that action. China is a threat to Taiwan.
According to Bloomberg sources, the Chinese tech conglomerate is now supporting a small startup ordering equipment for a semiconductor manufacturing plant. Purportedly, the new semiconductor plant, called Pengxinwei IC Manufacturing Co. (known as PXW) and run by a former Huawei executive, will be built close to the Huawei headquarters as it is expected to be the plant’s biggest customer, buying “most, if not all, of its output.”
If successful, this would allow Huawei to regain its footing and begin producing devices in earnest again. However, it remains to be seen if PXW will violate U.S. trade sanctions in supplying Huawei, as that would limit what equipment can be purchased by the company. Moreover, it is reported that the company’s first products, expected in 2025, will be on 28-nanometer technology leaving the plant six or more generations behind.
Given the accusations and evidence against Huawei, it will be difficult for any company to affiliate with the denylisted organization. Some of the U.S. restrictions may extend to this new company and prevent PXW from getting off the ground. However, if not, it still sounds like Huawei will be comparatively stuck in the stone age of semiconductors for a little while.
China continues to be a threat to the West and the existing rules of order. That's on Xi and his play for absolute power in China.
Fucking Europeans. Schotz will probably allow China's COSCO to own a portion of port facilities, even though his ministers are telling him no. When will they learn...
Huawei already has 5G dominance. Where have you been? Even now, it leads the market and has already 'de-Americanised' its ICT 5G product stack. It is now simply building out capacity.
China has no recent history of direct meddling in sovereign states through military action. It considers Taiwan part of China but apart from that there is no outward threat that has been singled out to the rest of the world.
'Repression' has nothing to do with US national security.
Apart from US 'sanctions' the rest of the world is eager to sell its technology to China. Yes, ASML and all the US tech industry included. Let that sink in.
You say you don't know why anyone would want to sell advanced tech to China. You are in a very small minority. The CEO of ASML has said more than once that the US approach will not work. Weaponising technology, forcing breakage of international supply lines and forcing sovereign nations to follow US orders or else has been a wake up call to the tech world.
There is nothing anyone is doing with the foundry equipment at that new site that contravenes US sanctions. Do you think ASML et al would risk that?
However, that said, US EDA software makers have said that they would rather Chinese companies 'cracked' their software than see a Chinese rival emerge from the sanctions. Too late for that I'm afraid as that ball is already rolling too.
The request to Biden just goes to show how out of touch with reality those folks are. Try to imagine things the other way around?
It is crazy.
Huawei alone has invested in over 40 semiconductor companies with the aim of rejigging its supply lines (all of them in detriment to US semiconductor industries).
China’s ‘secret police stations’ in UK must be investigated, say MPs
London and Glasgow claimed to be among list of operations to target critics and dissidents
China has been doing this around the world for quite some time. Have to make sure the diaspora don't forget who their bosses are. More than that, the influence operations that China conducts.
You might want to post about that, with your first hand knowledge and alll.
Absolutely nothing to do with technology and my knowledge of China is far less than that of the US and I'm definitely not involved with the Chinese Police. LOL.
What is left out, making this graph grossly misleading, is the context of the value of the wafers at the leading edge. This is where TSMC, followed by Samsung, and less so, Intel reside. It should also be noted that most of the design for these nodes occurs in the U.S.
The EU will have difficulty introducing leading edge nodes if they are not a primary designer of the silicon that is fabbed.
China at 14.4% has a mere rounding error of "leading edge" capacity at an inefficient version of 7nm, and is blocked by the U.S. and its allies from obtaining the equipment and building the supply chain necessary to compete.
It anything, Apple has ridden the wave of TSMC success, while providing the bulk of its revenues to continue that.
Context?
How much of the world's wafer output corresponds to cutting edge nodes?
Less than 2%? And falling?
By your argument, sanctions on sales of advanced semiconductor manufacturing technology to China are of little concern...and yet, that is a real and significant imposition on China's growth, isn't it.
Fun facts;
California is set to surpass Germany as the world's fourth largest economy;
The concern is related to the damage the US is doing to its own industry. That is self harm.
US semi-conductor interests have taken a huge hit due to these unilateral extra-territorial sanctions.
In market value loss, the damage has been huge. In a more direct context the damage has also been huge. Lost revenues.
How is the industry supposed to move forward if it can't sell into its largest market? How is it supposed to generate funding for R&D?
Applied Research and NVIDIA will each take a $400mn hit in just one quarter.
And to make matters worse, the whole policy only serves to accelerate the inevitable. Chinese technological progress. Remember. No policymaker has ever mentioned 'stopping' China's progress. Simply slowing it down. Well, there is a short term and long term reading of that but the consensus is clear. China will get there.
Worse still, non-US interests have also been impacted because the rugs have been pulled out from under their feet. As a result, US technology is toxic to them and they are working to get it out of their products.
With the latest 'sanctions' it is actually worse because employees with US citizenship are probably going to lose their jobs at Chinese companies.
An executive at a Chinese semi-conductor company:
“Now we are not just trying to build up ‘US-free’ manufacturing lines but also de-Americanise the teams,” said the executive.
That's from a paywalled FT article.
Let's be clear, absolutely ALL semi-conductor companies want to do business with Chinese companies. Bar none.
Having to halt sales simply because their products contain a tiny amount of US technology has opened their eyes to extra-territorial interference. The same applies to government.
Everyone is reducing their dependence on US technology.
How does that look for US interests? Bread for today but hunger for tomorrow?
Then we have to deal with the completely crackpot ideas of some prominent US representatives. What you are about to read must have come from people who are literally detached from the real world.
They want Biden to interfere in Chinese sovereign activities on Chinese soil.
Read to believe! (and they are citing Bloomberg - yikes!)
"Dear President Biden,
We call on the administration to take immediate action to halt Huawei’s attempt to build the Pengxinwei IC Manufacturing Company (PXW) semiconductor foundry. This Huawei-aligned foundry is designed to fatally undermine the U.S. strategy to counter the Chinese Communist Party’s (CCP) bid to dominate global 5G markets and strengthen its intelligence and repression apparatus.
Bloomberg recently published evidence that Huawei began construction over seven months ago on a factory where PXW is expected to eventually mass produce chips as advanced as 14 nanometers and 7 nanometers. Almost all of these chips are expected to be sold to Huawei, and PXW reportedly has already ordered the advanced equipment necessary to build these chips. This would represent a dangerous leap in Chinese semiconductor manufacturing, as Chinese chipmakers have thus far only been able to produce 7-nanometer chips in limited quantities. With these new chips for its base stations, Huawei could resume its march towards 5G market dominance, and the CCP will advance its plan to control global telecommunications and extend its economic espionage and repression."
Not a word about 'national security' there. Just 5G dominance (commercial and technological interests). The espionage line is just more craziness.
LOL!
Uhm, "economic espionage and repression" are in fact valid National Security issues.
You are free to believe what you want, and for fuck sake, why would anyone want Huawei to "resume its march towards 5G market dominance".
Blackburn wants President Biden to step in and block delivery of any advanced equipment that has been ordered from the West for PXW. More to the point, why is anyone allowing advanced equipment sales to China at this point in time. I agree with that action. China is a threat to Taiwan.
According to Bloomberg sources, the Chinese tech conglomerate is now supporting a small startup ordering equipment for a semiconductor manufacturing plant. Purportedly, the new semiconductor plant, called Pengxinwei IC Manufacturing Co. (known as PXW) and run by a former Huawei executive, will be built close to the Huawei headquarters as it is expected to be the plant’s biggest customer, buying “most, if not all, of its output.”
If successful, this would allow Huawei to regain its footing and begin producing devices in earnest again. However, it remains to be seen if PXW will violate U.S. trade sanctions in supplying Huawei, as that would limit what equipment can be purchased by the company. Moreover, it is reported that the company’s first products, expected in 2025, will be on 28-nanometer technology leaving the plant six or more generations behind.
Given the accusations and evidence against Huawei, it will be difficult for any company to affiliate with the denylisted organization. Some of the U.S. restrictions may extend to this new company and prevent PXW from getting off the ground. However, if not, it still sounds like Huawei will be comparatively stuck in the stone age of semiconductors for a little while.
China continues to be a threat to the West and the existing rules of order. That's on Xi and his play for absolute power in China.
Fucking Europeans. Schotz will probably allow China's COSCO to own a portion of port facilities, even though his ministers are telling him no. When will they learn...
Huawei already has 5G dominance. Where have you been? Even now, it leads the market and has already 'de-Americanised' its ICT 5G product stack. It is now simply building out capacity.
China has no recent history of direct meddling in sovereign states through military action. It considers Taiwan part of China but apart from that there is no outward threat that has been singled out to the rest of the world.
'Repression' has nothing to do with US national security.
Apart from US 'sanctions' the rest of the world is eager to sell its technology to China. Yes, ASML and all the US tech industry included. Let that sink in.
You say you don't know why anyone would want to sell advanced tech to China. You are in a very small minority. The CEO of ASML has said more than once that the US approach will not work. Weaponising technology, forcing breakage of international supply lines and forcing sovereign nations to follow US orders or else has been a wake up call to the tech world.
There is nothing anyone is doing with the foundry equipment at that new site that contravenes US sanctions. Do you think ASML et al would risk that?
However, that said, US EDA software makers have said that they would rather Chinese companies 'cracked' their software than see a Chinese rival emerge from the sanctions. Too late for that I'm afraid as that ball is already rolling too.
The request to Biden just goes to show how out of touch with reality those folks are. Try to imagine things the other way around?
It is crazy.
Huawei alone has invested in over 40 semiconductor companies with the aim of rejigging its supply lines (all of them in detriment to US semiconductor industries).
China’s ‘secret police stations’ in UK must be investigated, say MPs
London and Glasgow claimed to be among list of operations to target critics and dissidents
China has been doing this around the world for quite some time. Have to make sure the diaspora don't forget who their bosses are. More than that, the influence operations that China conducts.
You might want to post about that, with your first hand knowledge and alll.
Absolutely nothing to do with technology and my knowledge of China is far less than that of the US and I'm definitely not involved with the Chinese Police. LOL.
Stay on topic!
I never stated that you were involved with the Chinese police, but you have an affection for Huawei, and a defense of China's authoritarianism that is exceptional for AI posters. It blinds you to all of the harm that China has done, and will do, to the world, which is why I am a proponent of constraining China.
As I noted, the Western world is no longer enamored with China, and is resisting China's authoritarian impulse to change the current rules of order that have been the basis for an effective global economy since the end of WWII.
Perhaps if Huawei wasn't so closely linked with the CPC, I might give you more leeway in your views. Alas, China is Huawei, and Huawei is China.
What is left out, making this graph grossly misleading, is the context of the value of the wafers at the leading edge. This is where TSMC, followed by Samsung, and less so, Intel reside. It should also be noted that most of the design for these nodes occurs in the U.S.
The EU will have difficulty introducing leading edge nodes if they are not a primary designer of the silicon that is fabbed.
China at 14.4% has a mere rounding error of "leading edge" capacity at an inefficient version of 7nm, and is blocked by the U.S. and its allies from obtaining the equipment and building the supply chain necessary to compete.
It anything, Apple has ridden the wave of TSMC success, while providing the bulk of its revenues to continue that.
Context?
How much of the world's wafer output corresponds to cutting edge nodes?
Less than 2%? And falling?
By your argument, sanctions on sales of advanced semiconductor manufacturing technology to China are of little concern...and yet, that is a real and significant imposition on China's growth, isn't it.
Fun facts;
California is set to surpass Germany as the world's fourth largest economy;
The concern is related to the damage the US is doing to its own industry. That is self harm.
US semi-conductor interests have taken a huge hit due to these unilateral extra-territorial sanctions.
In market value loss, the damage has been huge. In a more direct context the damage has also been huge. Lost revenues.
How is the industry supposed to move forward if it can't sell into its largest market? How is it supposed to generate funding for R&D?
Applied Research and NVIDIA will each take a $400mn hit in just one quarter.
And to make matters worse, the whole policy only serves to accelerate the inevitable. Chinese technological progress. Remember. No policymaker has ever mentioned 'stopping' China's progress. Simply slowing it down. Well, there is a short term and long term reading of that but the consensus is clear. China will get there.
Worse still, non-US interests have also been impacted because the rugs have been pulled out from under their feet. As a result, US technology is toxic to them and they are working to get it out of their products.
With the latest 'sanctions' it is actually worse because employees with US citizenship are probably going to lose their jobs at Chinese companies.
An executive at a Chinese semi-conductor company:
“Now we are not just trying to build up ‘US-free’ manufacturing lines but also de-Americanise the teams,” said the executive.
That's from a paywalled FT article.
Let's be clear, absolutely ALL semi-conductor companies want to do business with Chinese companies. Bar none.
Having to halt sales simply because their products contain a tiny amount of US technology has opened their eyes to extra-territorial interference. The same applies to government.
Everyone is reducing their dependence on US technology.
How does that look for US interests? Bread for today but hunger for tomorrow?
Then we have to deal with the completely crackpot ideas of some prominent US representatives. What you are about to read must have come from people who are literally detached from the real world.
They want Biden to interfere in Chinese sovereign activities on Chinese soil.
Read to believe! (and they are citing Bloomberg - yikes!)
"Dear President Biden,
We call on the administration to take immediate action to halt Huawei’s attempt to build the Pengxinwei IC Manufacturing Company (PXW) semiconductor foundry. This Huawei-aligned foundry is designed to fatally undermine the U.S. strategy to counter the Chinese Communist Party’s (CCP) bid to dominate global 5G markets and strengthen its intelligence and repression apparatus.
Bloomberg recently published evidence that Huawei began construction over seven months ago on a factory where PXW is expected to eventually mass produce chips as advanced as 14 nanometers and 7 nanometers. Almost all of these chips are expected to be sold to Huawei, and PXW reportedly has already ordered the advanced equipment necessary to build these chips. This would represent a dangerous leap in Chinese semiconductor manufacturing, as Chinese chipmakers have thus far only been able to produce 7-nanometer chips in limited quantities. With these new chips for its base stations, Huawei could resume its march towards 5G market dominance, and the CCP will advance its plan to control global telecommunications and extend its economic espionage and repression."
Not a word about 'national security' there. Just 5G dominance (commercial and technological interests). The espionage line is just more craziness.
LOL!
Uhm, "economic espionage and repression" are in fact valid National Security issues.
You are free to believe what you want, and for fuck sake, why would anyone want Huawei to "resume its march towards 5G market dominance".
Blackburn wants President Biden to step in and block delivery of any advanced equipment that has been ordered from the West for PXW. More to the point, why is anyone allowing advanced equipment sales to China at this point in time. I agree with that action. China is a threat to Taiwan.
According to Bloomberg sources, the Chinese tech conglomerate is now supporting a small startup ordering equipment for a semiconductor manufacturing plant. Purportedly, the new semiconductor plant, called Pengxinwei IC Manufacturing Co. (known as PXW) and run by a former Huawei executive, will be built close to the Huawei headquarters as it is expected to be the plant’s biggest customer, buying “most, if not all, of its output.”
If successful, this would allow Huawei to regain its footing and begin producing devices in earnest again. However, it remains to be seen if PXW will violate U.S. trade sanctions in supplying Huawei, as that would limit what equipment can be purchased by the company. Moreover, it is reported that the company’s first products, expected in 2025, will be on 28-nanometer technology leaving the plant six or more generations behind.
Given the accusations and evidence against Huawei, it will be difficult for any company to affiliate with the denylisted organization. Some of the U.S. restrictions may extend to this new company and prevent PXW from getting off the ground. However, if not, it still sounds like Huawei will be comparatively stuck in the stone age of semiconductors for a little while.
China continues to be a threat to the West and the existing rules of order. That's on Xi and his play for absolute power in China.
Fucking Europeans. Schotz will probably allow China's COSCO to own a portion of port facilities, even though his ministers are telling him no. When will they learn...
Huawei already has 5G dominance. Where have you been? Even now, it leads the market and has already 'de-Americanised' its ICT 5G product stack. It is now simply building out capacity.
China has no recent history of direct meddling in sovereign states through military action. It considers Taiwan part of China but apart from that there is no outward threat that has been singled out to the rest of the world.
'Repression' has nothing to do with US national security.
Apart from US 'sanctions' the rest of the world is eager to sell its technology to China. Yes, ASML and all the US tech industry included. Let that sink in.
You say you don't know why anyone would want to sell advanced tech to China. You are in a very small minority. The CEO of ASML has said more than once that the US approach will not work. Weaponising technology, forcing breakage of international supply lines and forcing sovereign nations to follow US orders or else has been a wake up call to the tech world.
There is nothing anyone is doing with the foundry equipment at that new site that contravenes US sanctions. Do you think ASML et al would risk that?
However, that said, US EDA software makers have said that they would rather Chinese companies 'cracked' their software than see a Chinese rival emerge from the sanctions. Too late for that I'm afraid as that ball is already rolling too.
The request to Biden just goes to show how out of touch with reality those folks are. Try to imagine things the other way around?
It is crazy.
Huawei alone has invested in over 40 semiconductor companies with the aim of rejigging its supply lines (all of them in detriment to US semiconductor industries).
China’s ‘secret police stations’ in UK must be investigated, say MPs
London and Glasgow claimed to be among list of operations to target critics and dissidents
China has been doing this around the world for quite some time. Have to make sure the diaspora don't forget who their bosses are. More than that, the influence operations that China conducts.
You might want to post about that, with your first hand knowledge and alll.
Absolutely nothing to do with technology and my knowledge of China is far less than that of the US and I'm definitely not involved with the Chinese Police. LOL.
Stay on topic!
I never stated that you were involved with the Chinese police, but you have an affection for Huawei, and a defense of China's authoritarianism that is exceptional for AI posters. It blinds you to all of the harm that China has done, and will do, to the world, which is why I am a proponent of constraining China.
As I noted, the Western world is no longer enamored with China, and is resisting China's authoritarian impulse to change the current rules of order that have been the basis for an effective global economy since the end of WWII.
Perhaps if Huawei wasn't so closely linked with the CPC, I might give you more leeway in your views. Alas, China is Huawei, and Huawei is China.
Huawei is not China any more than any big US tech company is the The U.S.A. Get over it.
I have never defended authoritarian governments.
I know a lot about Huawei.
That knowledge allows me point out inaccuracies in what many people spout off about the company. Most of which are about as far from the truth as they can get, and you yourself have been found wanting over and over again.
The western world was never enamored with China in the first place. The western world as you put it and China are basically trading and investment partners. If anything the opposite of what you claim is true as China is pushing development and trading links with Africa and Latin America. The US started an ill thought out trade war with China, in part, to force China to do even more business with it.
If we put the focus on Huawei and the rest of the world, it's the same story. Watch the Huawei Connect 2022 video from this very month in Paris with members of all the big companies and EU parliament members in attendance to see what's happening here.
I worked for AT&T in the 80s and 90s. There use to be wafer fabs in Reading, Allentown and Breinigsville, PA and another in Orlando. They shut down one after another and used TSMC for fabrication. This was a choice based on financials without regard to the long term impact. Thanks to corporate America we're now in the situation where we have self inflicted this. And now US companies want tax payer money? We're screwed. We did this to ourselves. Our government and corporate leaders sold us out
Comments
https://www.stiftung-nv.de/sites/default/files/eu-semiconductor-manufacturing.april_.2021.pdf
The EU will have difficulty introducing leading edge nodes if they are not a primary designer of the silicon that is fabbed.
China at 14.4% has a mere rounding error of "leading edge" capacity at an inefficient version of 7nm, and is blocked by the U.S. and its allies from obtaining the equipment and building the supply chain necessary to compete.
It anything, Apple has ridden the wave of TSMC success, while providing the bulk of its revenues to continue that.
The U.S. certainly had reasons then to encourage Taiwan, and it certainly has reasons now to protect Taiwan from China's embrace, and has numerous National Security reasons for wanting a TSMC fab in the U.S, and sanctions in China.
http://www.historyisnowmagazine.com/blog/2013/9/24/cold-war-taiwans-electronic-industry#.Y1befS-B1m8=
Of note in current events;
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2-chinese-officers-charged-in-plot-to-obstruct-huawei-probe/2022/10/24/b5a67716-53bf-11ed-ac8b-08bbfab1c5a5_story.html
my hunch is intel will eventually make it, though. I’m more optimistic now than a few months ago. The recently released Raptor Lake is technologically inferior in many ways, but intel figured out a way to cobble together something that beats AMD at their own game. If intel actually ships products based on Intel 4 next year, I might actually buy their stock
How much of the world's wafer output corresponds to cutting edge nodes?
Less than 2%? And falling?
Fun facts;
California is set to surpass Germany as the world's fourth largest economy;
https://www.cbsnews.com/sacramento/news/california-set-to-become-4th-largest-world-economy-why-can-so-few-afford-to-live-here/
China's economy will not surpass the U.S. before 2060 if ever;
https://www.ft.com/content/cff42bc4-f9e3-4f51-985a-86518934afbe?shareType=nongift
Have a nice day...
Blocking you now for persisting in wasting my time.
The concern is related to the damage the US is doing to its own industry. That is self harm.
US semi-conductor interests have taken a huge hit due to these unilateral extra-territorial sanctions.
In market value loss, the damage has been huge. In a more direct context the damage has also been huge. Lost revenues.
How is the industry supposed to move forward if it can't sell into its largest market? How is it supposed to generate funding for R&D?
Applied Research and NVIDIA will each take a $400mn hit in just one quarter.
And to make matters worse, the whole policy only serves to accelerate the inevitable. Chinese technological progress. Remember. No policymaker has ever mentioned 'stopping' China's progress. Simply slowing it down. Well, there is a short term and long term reading of that but the consensus is clear. China will get there.
Worse still, non-US interests have also been impacted because the rugs have been pulled out from under their feet. As a result, US technology is toxic to them and they are working to get it out of their products.
With the latest 'sanctions' it is actually worse because employees with US citizenship are probably going to lose their jobs at Chinese companies.
An executive at a Chinese semi-conductor company:
“Now we are not just trying to build up ‘US-free’ manufacturing lines but also de-Americanise the teams,” said the executive.
That's from a paywalled FT article.
Let's be clear, absolutely ALL semi-conductor companies want to do business with Chinese companies. Bar none.
Having to halt sales simply because their products contain a tiny amount of US technology has opened their eyes to extra-territorial interference. The same applies to government.
Everyone is reducing their dependence on US technology.
How does that look for US interests? Bread for today but hunger for tomorrow?
Then we have to deal with the completely crackpot ideas of some prominent US representatives. What you are about to read must have come from people who are literally detached from the real world.
They want Biden to interfere in Chinese sovereign activities on Chinese soil.
Read to believe! (and they are citing Bloomberg - yikes!)
"Dear President Biden,
We call on the administration to take immediate action to halt Huawei’s attempt to build the Pengxinwei IC Manufacturing Company (PXW) semiconductor foundry. This Huawei-aligned foundry is designed to fatally undermine the U.S. strategy to counter the Chinese Communist Party’s (CCP) bid to dominate global 5G markets and strengthen its intelligence and repression apparatus.
Bloomberg recently published evidence that Huawei began construction over seven months ago on a factory where PXW is expected to eventually mass produce chips as advanced as 14 nanometers and 7 nanometers. Almost all of these chips are expected to be sold to Huawei, and PXW reportedly has already ordered the advanced equipment necessary to build these chips. This would represent a dangerous leap in Chinese semiconductor manufacturing, as Chinese chipmakers have thus far only been able to produce 7-nanometer chips in limited quantities. With these new chips for its base stations, Huawei could resume its march towards 5G market dominance, and the CCP will advance its plan to control global telecommunications and extend its economic espionage and repression."
https://www.blackburn.senate.gov/2022/10/blackburn-colleagues-call-on-president-biden-to-oppose-huawei-aligned-semiconductor-plant
Not a word about 'national security' there. Just 5G dominance (commercial and technological interests). The espionage line is just more craziness.
Uhm, "economic espionage and repression" are in fact valid National Security issues.
You are free to believe what you want, and for fuck sake, why would anyone want Huawei to "resume its march towards 5G market dominance".
Blackburn wants President Biden to step in and block delivery of any advanced equipment that has been ordered from the West for PXW. More to the point, why is anyone allowing advanced equipment sales to China at this point in time. I agree with that action. China is a threat to Taiwan.
China continues to be a threat to the West and the existing rules of order. That's on Xi and his play for absolute power in China.
Fucking Europeans. Schotz will probably allow China's COSCO to own a portion of port facilities, even though his ministers are telling him no. When will they learn...
China has no recent history of direct meddling in sovereign states through military action. It considers Taiwan part of China but apart from that there is no outward threat that has been singled out to the rest of the world.
'Repression' has nothing to do with US national security.
Apart from US 'sanctions' the rest of the world is eager to sell its technology to China. Yes, ASML and all the US tech industry included. Let that sink in.
You say you don't know why anyone would want to sell advanced tech to China. You are in a very small minority. The CEO of ASML has said more than once that the US approach will not work. Weaponising technology, forcing breakage of international supply lines and forcing sovereign nations to follow US orders or else has been a wake up call to the tech world.
There is nothing anyone is doing with the foundry equipment at that new site that contravenes US sanctions. Do you think ASML et al would risk that?
However, that said, US EDA software makers have said that they would rather Chinese companies 'cracked' their software than see a Chinese rival emerge from the sanctions. Too late for that I'm afraid as that ball is already rolling too.
The request to Biden just goes to show how out of touch with reality those folks are. Try to imagine things the other way around?
It is crazy.
Huawei alone has invested in over 40 semiconductor companies with the aim of rejigging its supply lines (all of them in detriment to US semiconductor industries).
Meanwhile, people of the countries in the West, have unfavorable opinions of China, and that is certainly having an effect on investment in China.
https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2022/09/28/how-global-public-opinion-of-china-has-shifted-in-the-xi-era/
As I've stated, this is all on Xi, but your favorable opinions of China are in the minority.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/41a59f74-5507-11ed-b965-3a5f647316f8?shareToken=6062fd00c7f5c225ea08e448b26b710a
China has been doing this around the world for quite some time. Have to make sure the diaspora don't forget who their bosses are. More than that, the influence operations that China conducts.
You might want to post about that, with your first hand knowledge and alll.
Stay on topic!
As I noted, the Western world is no longer enamored with China, and is resisting China's authoritarian impulse to change the current rules of order that have been the basis for an effective global economy since the end of WWII.
Perhaps if Huawei wasn't so closely linked with the CPC, I might give you more leeway in your views. Alas, China is Huawei, and Huawei is China.
I have never defended authoritarian governments.
I know a lot about Huawei.
That knowledge allows me point out inaccuracies in what many people spout off about the company. Most of which are about as far from the truth as they can get, and you yourself have been found wanting over and over again.
The western world was never enamored with China in the first place. The western world as you put it and China are basically trading and investment partners. If anything the opposite of what you claim is true as China is pushing development and trading links with Africa and Latin America. The US started an ill thought out trade war with China, in part, to force China to do even more business with it.
If we put the focus on Huawei and the rest of the world, it's the same story. Watch the Huawei Connect 2022 video from this very month in Paris with members of all the big companies and EU parliament members in attendance to see what's happening here.