Europe coming after Apple's App Store with Digital Markets Act

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Comments

  • Reply 61 of 66
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 7,621member
    avon b7 said: There is a competition angle in that Apple’s store is the only one allowed.
    It's the only one allowed on iOS/iPadOS. But those aren't the only operating systems available to the public to run apps. You've also got Android, Windows, macOS, Linux and all the various systems that run on gaming consoles. Cross platform app development is not a rare thing. It's very common. And like I said previously, that single store on iOS/iPad has never been shown to have higher prices than any of those other operating systems I listed. The EU is saying there's a "competition" problem without backing it up with data that relates to standard consumer concerns like price, quality and selection. IMO, the reason there's no data supporting that is specifically because of cross platform development being so robust. That's what the real competition is: apps that have the most success across the widest variety of operating systems. The irony is that apps like Spotify and Fortnite are perfect examples of that type of success despite all of the play acting they do to legislators about being victims. 
    The EU does not have to demonstrate anything. 

    That Apple decides which stores are available and decides that only its store is enough. 

    The presence of Android and HarmonyOS isn't relevant here as those devices can and do run alternative app stores.

    That doesn't alter the fact that Apple is a gatekeeper and makes no effort to inform users of the limitations that apply after the purchase. 

    Windows, Linux and macOS aren't as relevant either users can install apps directly. 
  • Reply 62 of 66
    blastdoorblastdoor Posts: 3,255member
    danvm said:
    blastdoor said:
    blastdoor said: As others have noted, the Mac has other app stores and “side loading” and works pretty well. 
    And video game consoles don't have other app stores or side loading and they work pretty well. They could also run productivity apps too but the companies that manufacture them don't allow it. In the past, this type of control was always considered appropriate for the company that was manufacturing the hardware and creating the operating system that ran on it. Nintendo won a major lawsuit in the past where their control of software on their own hardware platform was claimed to be an antitrust violation. 
    Yeah, if Apple has to allow third-party app stores etc, then I don't see how it makes any sense at all not to require the same thing of game console makers. 
    There is a difference between Apple devices and consoles from a customer POV. You can purchase games from different retailers, while iOS devices are forced to use the App Store. 
    That's an illusion, though, because regardless of where you purchase that console game, the console company (MS, Sony, Nintendo) get the same $$ from the sale. 
    watto_cobratht
  • Reply 63 of 66
    avon b7 said:
    mbgold1 said:
    avon b7 said:
    avon b7 said: You make a case for Apple wanting to have its cake and eat it. Of course, mostly that is what Apple does. It's Apple's way or the highway. 
    Apple controls its own IP and product line. That's the way it's supposed to work. Consumers were never limited to only buying an Apple product. 
    If you 'touch' the outside world through App Store commerce you have to abide by whatever consumer regulations are in place. If Apple shut down the store and only shipped first party apps, no doubt there would be no issue at all.

    It's also possible they could make potential buyers sign up to Apple’s policies and formally accept the situation but prior to purchase and having Apple's limitations clearly spelt out to them. That might work although I think spelling the limitations out would actually lead to less sales because the vast majority of buyers are simply unaware that they exist. 
    These laws aren’t meant to protect consumers! These laws are meant to protect EU developers and to punish American big tech for winning? No point in getting wordy.

    how much cheaper are apps going beyond the 99 cent the Apple App Store has pushed them.

    Be honest or at least try to have an open mind.  Do you really agree that a foreign nation (EU) should be able to write a law that only targets American corporations? The gate keeper analogy is bullshit and you know it.  Laws should target behaviors.  

    *This law will basically take IP from American companies and give it away for free to the benefit of none except EU bureaucrats.

    *It will destroy encrypted communication 

    Apple has 3 poor alternatives:

    Comply completely

    Create separate EU products and fight in court

    Leave the EU
    Blah blah ignore well reasoned arguments blah blah blah 
    Avon B7 modus operandi 
  • Reply 64 of 66
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 7,621member
    avon b7 said:
    mbgold1 said:
    avon b7 said:
    avon b7 said: You make a case for Apple wanting to have its cake and eat it. Of course, mostly that is what Apple does. It's Apple's way or the highway. 
    Apple controls its own IP and product line. That's the way it's supposed to work. Consumers were never limited to only buying an Apple product. 
    If you 'touch' the outside world through App Store commerce you have to abide by whatever consumer regulations are in place. If Apple shut down the store and only shipped first party apps, no doubt there would be no issue at all.

    It's also possible they could make potential buyers sign up to Apple’s policies and formally accept the situation but prior to purchase and having Apple's limitations clearly spelt out to them. That might work although I think spelling the limitations out would actually lead to less sales because the vast majority of buyers are simply unaware that they exist. 
    These laws aren’t meant to protect consumers! These laws are meant to protect EU developers and to punish American big tech for winning? No point in getting wordy.

    how much cheaper are apps going beyond the 99 cent the Apple App Store has pushed them.

    Be honest or at least try to have an open mind.  Do you really agree that a foreign nation (EU) should be able to write a law that only targets American corporations? The gate keeper analogy is bullshit and you know it.  Laws should target behaviors.  

    *This law will basically take IP from American companies and give it away for free to the benefit of none except EU bureaucrats.

    *It will destroy encrypted communication 

    Apple has 3 poor alternatives:

    Comply completely

    Create separate EU products and fight in court

    Leave the EU
    Blah blah ignore well reasoned arguments blah blah blah 
    Avon B7 modus operandi 
    What well reasoned arguments might they be?

    Most of the claims here make clear that posters have not even read the EU proposals, impact assessments, the introduction to the legislation (which clearly details why it was put into place) or the final text.

    The gatekeepers had their cake and ate it for years. They used that situation to strengthen their own positions, promote lock in (or 'stickiness' as some here always like to claim) and impede competition.

    It is worth remembering that the new legislation (which is just a part of what is to come) is designed to level the playing field and benefit consumers. That is forward looking.

    It does not mean the different investigations into these companies for anti-competitive behaviour have ended. They are continuing their course and, before you say it, far more EU companies have been fined than US companies.
    muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 65 of 66
    danvmdanvm Posts: 1,400member
    blastdoor said:
    danvm said:
    blastdoor said:
    blastdoor said: As others have noted, the Mac has other app stores and “side loading” and works pretty well. 
    And video game consoles don't have other app stores or side loading and they work pretty well. They could also run productivity apps too but the companies that manufacture them don't allow it. In the past, this type of control was always considered appropriate for the company that was manufacturing the hardware and creating the operating system that ran on it. Nintendo won a major lawsuit in the past where their control of software on their own hardware platform was claimed to be an antitrust violation. 
    Yeah, if Apple has to allow third-party app stores etc, then I don't see how it makes any sense at all not to require the same thing of game console makers. 
    There is a difference between Apple devices and consoles from a customer POV. You can purchase games from different retailers, while iOS devices are forced to use the App Store. 
    That's an illusion, though, because regardless of where you purchase that console game, the console company (MS, Sony, Nintendo) get the same $$ from the sale. 
    If you read my post, I was talking from a customer POV. It’s not an illusion to purchase games outside of the console App Store.  Customer can even purchase used games.  That’s a benefit customers have in consoles and it’s not available in Apple devices.  And while console companies get money from new games, they get $0.00 from used ones.  
    muthuk_vanalingam
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