Most of us in the real world know how things work, how people behave, how evil exists, how good exists, how people change, how people lie, how people redeem themselves, how everything isn't always like it seems, when to trust, when to doubt, when to call something what it is, who is full of shit, etc.
I, for one, can often appreciate (if not agree with) a cogent right-wing view. That was not a cogent right-wing view. That was the single most moronic post I've ever seen pscates post. Seriously.
It's great you have the world all figured out in terms of 'good' and 'evil'. It's equally unfortunate you can't see the emptiness of relative terms such as good and evil. And still more unfortunate that you posted the above post, shattering any illusions of intellectual or critical thinking skills I might have believed you had.
Ignorance is bliss, as they say. It must be blissful to live in a black and white, good and evil, us and them world.
Haha. Thank you. I've made it! I just knew if I kept on trying...
The people "bothered" by what I said tells me all I need to know, I think.
So I can't apply the word "evil" to Saddam Hussein, his regime and his treatment of Iraqis? I can't use that horrible word talking about rape, torture and oppression? I can't talk about those things and use that horrible, offensive little four letter word, stimuli?
And thank you, Noah, for explaining to giant above what most people could probably figure out after a casual glance.
So you apparently forgot to ask the most glaring of glaring questions: why did they initially believe it was plutonium specifically? Did you ever think there was more to the story than is reported in mainstream press?
Quote:
Using radiation detectors to determine the difference between uranium products and plutonium products without taking samples is a sketchy business, but there is one relatively clear difference. When plutonium-239 decays naturally, it emits almost exclusively alpha particles, or positively charged helium nuclei. Uranium isotopes, on the other hand, emit beta particles (electrons) and gamma rays along with alpha radiation.
Alpha radiation normally cannot penetrate clothes and skin, whereas beta and gamma radiation certainly can. Initial reports from Al Tuwaitha indicate very high levels of radiation, yet there have been no reported casualties. That indicates that most of the radiation is probably not beta or gamma radiation, but alpha radiation, plutonium-239's calling card. Since the people who discovered the radiation at Al Tuwaitha have reported no health problems, the plutonium is most likely purified -- and therefore usable in a weapons program.
from strafor
So there is an actual reason why it was thought to be specifically plutonium. Just because you didn't get the info from Fox News doesn't mean it was just an idea some journalist had.
Note also that any removal of seals, if shown to be true, demonstrates a real lack of maturity and professionalism in these particular guys, who are most likely ~19 or 20, though they might be among the few that are older.
Last, if you don't see a WMD claim in ""How did the world miss all of this? Why couldn't they see what was happening here?" you have some real issues you need to work through.
And, pscates, you seem to be trying to join in on the AO tradition of premature circle-jerking. Good job at not saving face.
He's actually saying that the world is not a "complex, ever-evolving state of affairs."
Did I really, really say that? Exactly? That "the world" doesn't evolve, change, etc. No I didn't.
Quote:
I really, honestly am not joking when I say I am surprised that someone who makes these comments knows how even a computer works.
Nice. But, as bunge coolly put it, I use a Mac. I don't really have to know "how to use a computer" (BTW, I did a thread on that very topic in General Discussion a few months ago...check it out). That's the beauty of it and I'd expect you to know that.
In any case, I do like that nice connect you conjured up between "opinion that differs from yours = technical know-how/expertise".
Charming. And incisive.
Quote:
How can you know how the world works when you are obviously uneducated enough to believe (and you really seem to believe it) that the world can be classified into a handful of dichotomies?
I'm sorry. If I could go back to school and get as smart as you and othersI'd apply for membership to the highly-regarded AppleInsider Brain Trust & Supper Club (I hear its really swell and that the yearly cruises and formal dances are something to behold...I've even got a tux). Obviously I just don't get it, uneducated and all as I be. Those "dichotomies" have kept me healthy, prosperous, safe, employed, loved, grounded, surrounded by great friends and family, etc. I'll take my "ignorant little rules of life" over the nonsensical crap I see represented and believed in by many here.
In any case, our orbits never have - or never will - cross, so don't get TOO torqued up about my uneducated worldview. Chances are, it'll never impact you.
As far as the journalism thing goes (from earlier above), if I misunderstood your comment, then I apologize. It really sounded (when I take into account previous posts/attitudes) that you were taking a position that caused me to respond the way I did. For that, I'm sorry if I mistook the meaning/tone of your post about "trusting/believing 19-year-old Marines or Fox reporters...".
And, pscates, you seem to be trying to join in on the AO tradition of premature circle-jerking. Good job at not saving face.
I don't even know what that means. But I assume it isn't good, what with "circle jerk" being featured so prominently.
However, I think I'll live. It's...just a...flesh...wound. Whatever despair I might be experiencing as losing my fan base (or alienating anyone who might've thought I was "cool", even though my status apparently depended on me seeing the world their way) is made up for by the realization that this ain't the only website out there.
If it gets TOO bad, I can always bail or get banned or take a gelding-inspired sabbatical from the joint! Let not your heart be troubled.
Note also that any removal of seals, if shown to be true, demonstrates a real lack of maturity and professionalism in these particular guys, who are most likely ~19 or 20, though they might be among the few that are older.
actually, i would hope that they're smart enough to break said seals and investigate what's inside.
it would be moronic not to. just slap a couple of seals up and no one will enter? that's pretty stupid.
these guys are trained specialists, they can handle themselves. they're looking for weapons. i would hope some silly seal wasn't enough for them to just walk away without investigating further.
as for what's there? i believe we still have 4 more days (at least) to go before we're likely to find out anything concrete.
I, for one, can often appreciate (if not agree with) a cogent right-wing view. That was not a cogent right-wing view. That was the single most moronic post I've ever seen pscates post. Seriously.
It's great you have the world all figured out in terms of 'good' and 'evil'. It's equally unfortunate you can't see the emptiness of relative terms such as good and evil. And still more unfortunate that you posted the above post, shattering any illusions of intellectual or critical thinking skills I might have believed you had.
Ignorance is bliss, as they say. It must be blissful to live in a black and white, good and evil, us and them world.
So, yeah, that is what you are saying and don't try to BS or backtrack.
I would never think of it. I just believe that "everything" isnt always that way, all the time, over every issue. Again, did I say that? No. That's not BS or backtracking at all.
From the way you seem to be coming at it, "everything in the entire world" IS complex and convoluted. I don't agree with that. I think we make things that way lots of times.
Some issues, topics, situations in the world are complex. But some aren't. How we make those simple ones complex is what I was talking about/referring to. There are indeed those out there who do make everything (yes, everything) harder than it needs to be and gets away from the very simple answers that many (not all) things actually rest on.
What is the horrible thing about that? Having the lack of decorum to point it out? I'm crushed.
actually, i would hope that they're smart enough to break said seals and investigate what's inside.
no need to do it in such a careless way
Quote:
it would be moronic not to. just slap a couple of seals up and no one will enter? that's pretty stupid.
no need to have it done immediately by marines. I mean, we do have control over the facility. Had 'trained specialists' checked it out first, we wouldn't have had this problem.
Quote:
these guys are trained specialists, they can handle themselves.
apparently not
Quote:
as for what's there? i believe we still have 4 more days (at least) to go before we're likely to find out anything concrete.
in four days then. Keep clicking your heels together and wishing for plutonium so you can pretend you predicted it.
Originally posted by pscates I would never think of it. I just believe that "everything" isnt always that way, all the time, over every issue. Again, did I say that? No. That's not BS or backtracking at all.
From the way you seem to be coming at it, "everything in the entire world" IS complex and convoluted. I don't agree with that. I think we make things that way lots of times.
Some issues, topics, situations in the world are complex. But some aren't. How we make those simple ones complex is what I was talking about/referring to. There are indeed those out there who do make everything (yes, everything) harder than it needs to be and gets away from the very simple answers that many (not all) things actually rest on.
What is the horrible thing about that? Having the lack of decorum to point it out? I'm crushed.
Individuals are complex. Groups of people are complex. Motives and desires are complex. Cultures are complex. Communities are complex. Nature is complex. Physics is complex.
The more you study any particular part of the world, the more you realize everything (using the actual defintion) is deep, deep, deep.
The only way to say that the world is simple is to start a classification system created by your own biases. For instance, you admit to classifying by good and evil, yet those are dynamic, subjective and ever-changing terms in themselves. Definitions of good and evil vary from person to person, culture to culture and time to time. You defintion of good and evil has a mix of cultural influences and reactions to life experiences that are particular to you.
So you may find people that agree with your classification, but the agreement of a few, or even many, in no way validates it. For example, the idea that blacks should sit in a lower status was widely accepted, even considered scientific fact, but was based on nothing but personal bias.
I am reading Gould's Mismeasure of Man, which is a good history of the flawed pseudoscience that backed up this idea and the interconnected progression of the supportive experiments and social attitudes. To describe the book simply, pre-formed assumptions can and do lead even to faulty aquisition of data and flawed science. There were tons of studies that 'solidly' demonstrated the inferiority of certain races, and in the end they were all flawed and shot down, the data and conclusions conclusively demonstrated to be victims of interpretation through bias. Yet in their time, they were irrefutable fact.
As such, your classification scheme for anything is not based in fact, but rather personal bias, due to a combination of billions of influences, external and internal.
Here's the big part: all ~6,000,000,000 on Earth are just like you in that way.
While everyone does classify the world in order to better comprehend it, there is no justification for that classification. The only way to consistantly move towards a more and more accurate understand of yourself and the world is to know that your classification system is always fundamentally flawed and requires constant massive overhauls.
And don't forget about the good old Oedipus Effect.
The only way to consistantly move towards a more and more accurate understand of yourself and the world is to know that your classification system is always fundamentally flawed and requires constant massive overhauls.
Unfortunately I think this point goes straigh over most people's heads.
don't mind giant pscates, he's in a perpetual pissy mood.
he also likes to make things up for other people to have said, then go from there. it's kind of annoying at first, then you realize he just likes to argue with himself, and you can ignore him.
don't mind giant pscates, he's in a perpetual pissy mood.
he also likes to make things up for other people to have said, then go from there. it's kind of annoying at first, then you realize he just likes to argue with himself, and you can ignore him.
That's probably uncalled-for.
Lovely objectivity there Mr. Moderator. Pscates and Giant are both going at it yet somehow Giant is so much more in the wrong. He is soley to blame...
Keep it up, alcimedes. Pscates has shown more restraint than you.
sorry, he has a bit of a history struggling with reading comprehension. he doesn't like to actually read/respond to what people write. he started doing it again in this thread, that's all.
the first 6-8 times i let it slide. after that, i have no problems pointing it out.
Comments
Most of us in the real world know how things work, how people behave, how evil exists, how good exists, how people change, how people lie, how people redeem themselves, how everything isn't always like it seems, when to trust, when to doubt, when to call something what it is, who is full of shit, etc.
I, for one, can often appreciate (if not agree with) a cogent right-wing view. That was not a cogent right-wing view. That was the single most moronic post I've ever seen pscates post. Seriously.
It's great you have the world all figured out in terms of 'good' and 'evil'. It's equally unfortunate you can't see the emptiness of relative terms such as good and evil. And still more unfortunate that you posted the above post, shattering any illusions of intellectual or critical thinking skills I might have believed you had.
Ignorance is bliss, as they say. It must be blissful to live in a black and white, good and evil, us and them world.
The people "bothered" by what I said tells me all I need to know, I think.
So I can't apply the word "evil" to Saddam Hussein, his regime and his treatment of Iraqis? I can't use that horrible word talking about rape, torture and oppression? I can't talk about those things and use that horrible, offensive little four letter word, stimuli?
And thank you, Noah, for explaining to giant above what most people could probably figure out after a casual glance.
Originally posted by NoahJ
Why do I even bother?
I was trying to figure that out myself.
So you apparently forgot to ask the most glaring of glaring questions: why did they initially believe it was plutonium specifically? Did you ever think there was more to the story than is reported in mainstream press?
Using radiation detectors to determine the difference between uranium products and plutonium products without taking samples is a sketchy business, but there is one relatively clear difference. When plutonium-239 decays naturally, it emits almost exclusively alpha particles, or positively charged helium nuclei. Uranium isotopes, on the other hand, emit beta particles (electrons) and gamma rays along with alpha radiation.
Alpha radiation normally cannot penetrate clothes and skin, whereas beta and gamma radiation certainly can. Initial reports from Al Tuwaitha indicate very high levels of radiation, yet there have been no reported casualties. That indicates that most of the radiation is probably not beta or gamma radiation, but alpha radiation, plutonium-239's calling card. Since the people who discovered the radiation at Al Tuwaitha have reported no health problems, the plutonium is most likely purified -- and therefore usable in a weapons program.
from strafor
So there is an actual reason why it was thought to be specifically plutonium. Just because you didn't get the info from Fox News doesn't mean it was just an idea some journalist had.
Note also that any removal of seals, if shown to be true, demonstrates a real lack of maturity and professionalism in these particular guys, who are most likely ~19 or 20, though they might be among the few that are older.
Last, if you don't see a WMD claim in ""How did the world miss all of this? Why couldn't they see what was happening here?" you have some real issues you need to work through.
And, pscates, you seem to be trying to join in on the AO tradition of premature circle-jerking. Good job at not saving face.
Originally posted by giant
Yeah. Terrifying, ain't it?
He's actually saying that the world is not a "complex, ever-evolving state of affairs."
Did I really, really say that? Exactly? That "the world" doesn't evolve, change, etc. No I didn't.
I really, honestly am not joking when I say I am surprised that someone who makes these comments knows how even a computer works.
Nice. But, as bunge coolly put it, I use a Mac. I don't really have to know "how to use a computer" (BTW, I did a thread on that very topic in General Discussion a few months ago...check it out). That's the beauty of it and I'd expect you to know that.
In any case, I do like that nice connect you conjured up between "opinion that differs from yours = technical know-how/expertise".
Charming. And incisive.
How can you know how the world works when you are obviously uneducated enough to believe (and you really seem to believe it) that the world can be classified into a handful of dichotomies?
I'm sorry. If I could go back to school and get as smart as you and othersI'd apply for membership to the highly-regarded AppleInsider Brain Trust & Supper Club (I hear its really swell and that the yearly cruises and formal dances are something to behold...I've even got a tux). Obviously I just don't get it, uneducated and all as I be. Those "dichotomies" have kept me healthy, prosperous, safe, employed, loved, grounded, surrounded by great friends and family, etc. I'll take my "ignorant little rules of life" over the nonsensical crap I see represented and believed in by many here.
In any case, our orbits never have - or never will - cross, so don't get TOO torqued up about my uneducated worldview. Chances are, it'll never impact you.
As far as the journalism thing goes (from earlier above), if I misunderstood your comment, then I apologize. It really sounded (when I take into account previous posts/attitudes) that you were taking a position that caused me to respond the way I did. For that, I'm sorry if I mistook the meaning/tone of your post about "trusting/believing 19-year-old Marines or Fox reporters...".
But that's all I have today. Enjoy it.
Originally posted by pscates
Did I really, really say that? Exactly? That "the world" doesn't evolve, change, etc. No I didn't.
Sorry. Your exact words were " everything as a 'complex, ever-evolving state of affairs.'"
'Everything' by definition includes the Earth and 'everything' that happens on it.
So, yeah, that is what you are saying and don't try to BS or backtrack.
Originally posted by giant
And, pscates, you seem to be trying to join in on the AO tradition of premature circle-jerking. Good job at not saving face.
I don't even know what that means. But I assume it isn't good, what with "circle jerk" being featured so prominently.
However, I think I'll live. It's...just a...flesh...wound. Whatever despair I might be experiencing as losing my fan base (or alienating anyone who might've thought I was "cool", even though my status apparently depended on me seeing the world their way) is made up for by the realization that this ain't the only website out there.
If it gets TOO bad, I can always bail or get banned or take a gelding-inspired sabbatical from the joint! Let not your heart be troubled.
Note also that any removal of seals, if shown to be true, demonstrates a real lack of maturity and professionalism in these particular guys, who are most likely ~19 or 20, though they might be among the few that are older.
actually, i would hope that they're smart enough to break said seals and investigate what's inside.
it would be moronic not to. just slap a couple of seals up and no one will enter? that's pretty stupid.
these guys are trained specialists, they can handle themselves. they're looking for weapons. i would hope some silly seal wasn't enough for them to just walk away without investigating further.
as for what's there? i believe we still have 4 more days (at least) to go before we're likely to find out anything concrete.
Originally posted by 1337_5L4Xx0R
I, for one, can often appreciate (if not agree with) a cogent right-wing view. That was not a cogent right-wing view. That was the single most moronic post I've ever seen pscates post. Seriously.
It's great you have the world all figured out in terms of 'good' and 'evil'. It's equally unfortunate you can't see the emptiness of relative terms such as good and evil. And still more unfortunate that you posted the above post, shattering any illusions of intellectual or critical thinking skills I might have believed you had.
Ignorance is bliss, as they say. It must be blissful to live in a black and white, good and evil, us and them world.
I can't believe you said that!
Originally posted by giant
So, yeah, that is what you are saying and don't try to BS or backtrack.
I would never think of it. I just believe that "everything" isnt always that way, all the time, over every issue. Again, did I say that? No. That's not BS or backtracking at all.
From the way you seem to be coming at it, "everything in the entire world" IS complex and convoluted. I don't agree with that. I think we make things that way lots of times.
Some issues, topics, situations in the world are complex. But some aren't. How we make those simple ones complex is what I was talking about/referring to. There are indeed those out there who do make everything (yes, everything) harder than it needs to be and gets away from the very simple answers that many (not all) things actually rest on.
What is the horrible thing about that? Having the lack of decorum to point it out? I'm crushed.
Originally posted by ShawnPatrickJoyce
I can't believe you said that!
I can. Look how he writes his name. I'm expected to take him seriously?
Originally posted by alcimedes
actually, i would hope that they're smart enough to break said seals and investigate what's inside.
no need to do it in such a careless way
it would be moronic not to. just slap a couple of seals up and no one will enter? that's pretty stupid.
no need to have it done immediately by marines. I mean, we do have control over the facility. Had 'trained specialists' checked it out first, we wouldn't have had this problem.
these guys are trained specialists, they can handle themselves.
apparently not
as for what's there? i believe we still have 4 more days (at least) to go before we're likely to find out anything concrete.
in four days then. Keep clicking your heels together and wishing for plutonium so you can pretend you predicted it.
Good luck with that. You'll need it.
Originally posted by pscates I would never think of it. I just believe that "everything" isnt always that way, all the time, over every issue. Again, did I say that? No. That's not BS or backtracking at all.
From the way you seem to be coming at it, "everything in the entire world" IS complex and convoluted. I don't agree with that. I think we make things that way lots of times.
Some issues, topics, situations in the world are complex. But some aren't. How we make those simple ones complex is what I was talking about/referring to. There are indeed those out there who do make everything (yes, everything) harder than it needs to be and gets away from the very simple answers that many (not all) things actually rest on.
What is the horrible thing about that? Having the lack of decorum to point it out? I'm crushed.
Individuals are complex. Groups of people are complex. Motives and desires are complex. Cultures are complex. Communities are complex. Nature is complex. Physics is complex.
The more you study any particular part of the world, the more you realize everything (using the actual defintion) is deep, deep, deep.
The only way to say that the world is simple is to start a classification system created by your own biases. For instance, you admit to classifying by good and evil, yet those are dynamic, subjective and ever-changing terms in themselves. Definitions of good and evil vary from person to person, culture to culture and time to time. You defintion of good and evil has a mix of cultural influences and reactions to life experiences that are particular to you.
So you may find people that agree with your classification, but the agreement of a few, or even many, in no way validates it. For example, the idea that blacks should sit in a lower status was widely accepted, even considered scientific fact, but was based on nothing but personal bias.
I am reading Gould's Mismeasure of Man, which is a good history of the flawed pseudoscience that backed up this idea and the interconnected progression of the supportive experiments and social attitudes. To describe the book simply, pre-formed assumptions can and do lead even to faulty aquisition of data and flawed science. There were tons of studies that 'solidly' demonstrated the inferiority of certain races, and in the end they were all flawed and shot down, the data and conclusions conclusively demonstrated to be victims of interpretation through bias. Yet in their time, they were irrefutable fact.
As such, your classification scheme for anything is not based in fact, but rather personal bias, due to a combination of billions of influences, external and internal.
Here's the big part: all ~6,000,000,000 on Earth are just like you in that way.
While everyone does classify the world in order to better comprehend it, there is no justification for that classification. The only way to consistantly move towards a more and more accurate understand of yourself and the world is to know that your classification system is always fundamentally flawed and requires constant massive overhauls.
And don't forget about the good old Oedipus Effect.
Originally posted by giant
The only way to consistantly move towards a more and more accurate understand of yourself and the world is to know that your classification system is always fundamentally flawed and requires constant massive overhauls.
Unfortunately I think this point goes straigh over most people's heads.
he also likes to make things up for other people to have said, then go from there. it's kind of annoying at first, then you realize he just likes to argue with himself, and you can ignore him.
Originally posted by alcimedes
don't mind giant pscates, he's in a perpetual pissy mood.
he also likes to make things up for other people to have said, then go from there. it's kind of annoying at first, then you realize he just likes to argue with himself, and you can ignore him.
That's probably uncalled-for.
Lovely objectivity there Mr. Moderator. Pscates and Giant are both going at it yet somehow Giant is so much more in the wrong. He is soley to blame...
Keep it up, alcimedes. Pscates has shown more restraint than you.
the first 6-8 times i let it slide. after that, i have no problems pointing it out.
as for what's there? i believe we still have 4 more days (at least) to go before we're likely to find out anything concrete.
I'm pretty sure concrete is not a proscribed weapon of mass destruction unless the military has some new ecological sensitivites of late.