AMD trying to take on Apple Silicon with Ryzen 7040

Posted:
in General Discussion edited January 2023
AMD has shown off its Ryzen 7040 series processor that is able to edge out the year-old Apple Silicon M1 Pro processor in cherry-picked benchmarks.

AMD Ryzen 7040 revealed during CES 2023
AMD Ryzen 7040 revealed during CES 2023


The AMD Ryzen 7040 is built on the 4nm process with 25 billion transistors. The Zen4 technology offers up to 8 cores and 16 threads with up to 5.2 GHz boost and a 12-core GPU.

Comparatively, Apple's M1 Pro that debuted in November 2021 has 33.7 billion transistors on the 5nm process. It is a 10-core processor with two high-efficiency cores and eight high-performance cores. It uses a 16-core GPU.

In a "live" demonstration of Blender running a render, AMD shows the Ryzen 9 7940HS with a clear lead on Apple's M1 Pro. The demo shows Apple with the advantage over Intel, but AMD's processor finished several seconds before Apple.

The AMD processor has a clear advantage in being the newer processor and using the superior 4nm platform. However, the extent of its capabilities will be unknown until it is tested following release in everyday workflows.

It's also not clear how power-efficient the chip will be. There's also questions surrounding the overall technology stack which is maintaining legacy X86 architecture, thermal overhead, and more once it is placed in an actual laptop.

On-stage benchmarks show AMD in the lead
On-stage benchmarks show AMD in the lead


Apple is also guilty of overplaying its hand in a keynote presentation with selective benchmarks, though it rarely calls out the competition directly. AMD is not the first competitor to claim it has bested Apple's powerful silicon.

AMD claims up to 30 hours of video playback thanks to the efficiency gains and a powerful on-chip AI.

AMD notably doesn't mention the M1 Max or M1 Ultra, as it seemingly doesn't have direct competitors for those chipsets. The other high-end processors announced at the event run on the 5nm process, and AMD didn't compare those chips to the higher-end Apple Silicon.

The AMD Ryzen 7040 series will launch in March 2023 across a wide array of computers. Pricing and availability are not yet known.

Apple's M2 processor debuted in the summer of 2022. The M1 Pro and Max hit shelves in November 2021.

The M1 and variants are still based on the 5nm process, so it is expected that the upcoming M2 Pro and M2 Max will continue to use the same one. However, Apple's vertical integration of hardware and software give it an advantage, even when compared to newer technologies.

The A16 processor was rumored to use the 4nm process before Apple had to backtrack and use the 5nm process again. It is claimed that thermal efficiency was one of the reasons for this backtracking. The iPhone 15 and the A17 processor are rumored to skip 4nm to 3nm, which may pave the way for Apple's future M3 processor.

How well the AMD Ryzen 7040 series actually competes with Apple's M1 Pro, M2, and possibly the M2 Pro will be determined after the March launch. The M2 Pro is expected in the first half of 2023.

And, AMD presented the announcement on a 14-inch MacBook Pro, presumably with M1 Pro processor.

Bruh AMD is running their CES keynote on 14'' MacBook Pro's after roasting the M1 Pro pic.twitter.com/E9JWUBJLZp

— Ian Zelbo (@ianzelbo)
AppleInsider will be covering the 2023 Consumer Electronics Show in person on January 2 through January 8 where we're expecting Wi-Fi 6e devices, HomeKit, Apple accessories, 8K monitors and more. Keep up with our coverage by downloading the AppleInsider app, and follow us on YouTube, Twitter @appleinsider and Facebook for live, late-breaking coverage. You can also check out our official Instagram account for exclusive photos throughout the event.

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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 36
    DuhSesameDuhSesame Posts: 1,278member
    Well, duh, the M1 Pro is one year old, of course the latest and the greatest will be better in some ways.
    They don’t make a PowerPoint just to shame Apple…
    JaiOh81killroywatto_cobra
  • Reply 2 of 36
    DuhSesameDuhSesame Posts: 1,278member
    Actually, if you count how old the microarchitecture is, the M1 is a two-year-old technology.  It took another year for Apple to deliver their Pro and Max lineups.  While they’re impressive chips, they aren’t that advanced like most of us would think.
    JaiOh81watto_cobra
  • Reply 3 of 36
    rob53rob53 Posts: 3,289member
    DuhSesame said:
    Actually, if you count how old the microarchitecture is, the M1 is a two-year-old technology.  It took another year for Apple to deliver their Pro and Max lineups.  While they’re impressive chips, they aren’t that advanced like most of us would think.
    True, but they work and are being used in Macs, something this CPU will never do. 

    I wonder if their benchmark testing only used the CPU/GPU, not any memory or storage like the M-series SoC. 
    JaiOh81killroywatto_cobra
  • Reply 4 of 36
    lkrupplkrupp Posts: 10,557member
    Well, at least we now have articles about others “trying” to take on Apple instead of the other way around. 
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 5 of 36
    lkrupplkrupp Posts: 10,557member
    DuhSesame said:
    Actually, if you count how old the microarchitecture is, the M1 is a two-year-old technology.  It took another year for Apple to deliver their Pro and Max lineups.  While they’re impressive chips, they aren’t that advanced like most of us would think.
    So Apple IS falling behind in your mind?
    killroywatto_cobra
  • Reply 6 of 36
    The most interesting thing from the presentation isn't even mentioned here, its that the have integrated a Xilinix FPGA as part of their AI engine.  Depending on how addressable that FPGA is, it could create some interesing(if niche) capabilities.   
    n2itivguykillroywatto_cobra
  • Reply 7 of 36
    riverkoriverko Posts: 241member
    Of course AMD tries to compare with Apple. They take Apple as their goal to achieve/beat. I don’t really mind that, competition drives innovation and progress. Even though I know I will not leave Apple ecosystem, I am looking forward to see the real life tests and usage to see, how well AMD did.
    rob53bala1234AniMillravnorodomkillroyracerhomie3watto_cobrabloggerblog
  • Reply 8 of 36
    blastdoorblastdoor Posts: 3,527member
    DuhSesame said:
    Actually, if you count how old the microarchitecture is, the M1 is a two-year-old technology.  It took another year for Apple to deliver their Pro and Max lineups.  While they’re impressive chips, they aren’t that advanced like most of us would think.
    Exactly right. Apple is slacking. There's no way that little AMD should be able to beat Apple, even in somewhat cherry picked benchmarks. 

    A 4nm M2 Pro class SOC should already be out in shipping Macs right now, today. Apple has the superior financial resources, the stronger position to get a favorable spot in the fab line with TSMC, the better ISA, the better core design, the better software stack. 

    Blame COVID, blame China, but AMD faces all that, too. 

    Stop slacking Apple! 


    williamlondonwatto_cobra
  • Reply 9 of 36
    AniMillAniMill Posts: 188member
    I’m thinking that Apple might just jump over M2 Pro/Max and go right for M3 w/ 3nm process. There’s been enough rumors that M2 didn’t cut it for the Mac Pro, so maybe they’ll release M3 Pro/Max/Ultra/Extreme this year instead. That’ll be a big leap over the M1 initial releases dropping AMD and Intel back to the drawing boards.

    Right on, competition is good. 
    williamlondonwatto_cobratmay
  • Reply 10 of 36
    pwrmacpwrmac Posts: 58member
    Who cares if AMD are faster. Apple is not going to use AMD anyway. This is more a PR stunt to promote the product.
    watto_cobran2itivguybloggerblogtmay
  • Reply 11 of 36
    KTRKTR Posts: 280member
    Apple still a few things going for them

    1.  Lots of loyal customers

    2.  They own and develop there own OS, which they tightly inter grate to their hardware.  They can tweak the os to the hardware, the hardware to the os.

    3.  They have their own retail stores, where customers can get their apple products service.

    etc.

    killroy9secondkox2watto_cobra
  • Reply 12 of 36
    DuhSesameDuhSesame Posts: 1,278member
    lkrupp said:
    DuhSesame said:
    Actually, if you count how old the microarchitecture is, the M1 is a two-year-old technology.  It took another year for Apple to deliver their Pro and Max lineups.  While they’re impressive chips, they aren’t that advanced like most of us would think.
    So Apple IS falling behind in your mind?
    You can't expect perfection in the 1st generation.  1 year is a long time for chip makers.

    I believe Max is still faster than 90% of the x86 CPUs and beating all the 8-core chips in its heydays, but Alder Lake is still more powerful (on paper).
    edited January 2023 watto_cobra
  • Reply 13 of 36
    blastdoorblastdoor Posts: 3,527member
    pwrmac said:
    Who cares if AMD are faster. Apple is not going to use AMD anyway. This is more a PR stunt to promote the product.
    I won't buy a non-Mac laptop, but I will buy a Linux workhorse desktop. In fact, I bought a Linux Threadripper system back in 2018. That system is dying now after a lot of heavy use. I think Apple *should* be able to offer a superior alternative to AMD for my next workhorse desktop, but it's not at all clear they're going to live up to their potential. The fact that AMD is getting a 4nm product out there ahead of Apple does not bode well. 
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 14 of 36
    DuhSesameDuhSesame Posts: 1,278member
    blastdoor said:
    pwrmac said:
    Who cares if AMD are faster. Apple is not going to use AMD anyway. This is more a PR stunt to promote the product.
    I won't buy a non-Mac laptop, but I will buy a Linux workhorse desktop. In fact, I bought a Linux Threadripper system back in 2018. That system is dying now after a lot of heavy use. I think Apple *should* be able to offer a superior alternative to AMD for my next workhorse desktop, but it's not at all clear they're going to live up to their potential. The fact that AMD is getting a 4nm product out there ahead of Apple does not bode well. 
    Is it really that unstable?
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 15 of 36
    MarvinMarvin Posts: 15,443moderator
    blastdoor said:
    DuhSesame said:
    Actually, if you count how old the microarchitecture is, the M1 is a two-year-old technology.  It took another year for Apple to deliver their Pro and Max lineups.  While they’re impressive chips, they aren’t that advanced like most of us would think.
    Exactly right. Apple is slacking. There's no way that little AMD should be able to beat Apple, even in somewhat cherry picked benchmarks. 

    A 4nm M2 Pro class SOC should already be out in shipping Macs right now, today. Apple has the superior financial resources, the stronger position to get a favorable spot in the fab line with TSMC, the better ISA, the better core design, the better software stack. 

    Blame COVID, blame China, but AMD faces all that, too. 

    Stop slacking Apple! 
    It would have been nice to have the M2 Pro/Max chips already but it actually demonstrates why they didn't need to ship them yet. AMD's chips are just being announced, they won't hit retail until March and Intel's new chips are even further behind. Here's the AMD presentation:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OMxU4BDIm4M&t=1503s

    AMD and Intel are playing catchup to match Apple's 2021 chip in 2023.

    Their chips boost clock speeds to 5.2GHz so short-run benchmarks get an advantage and they are using a more advanced chip process.

    Intel and AMD are the PC industry heavyweights and every presentation they've done since Apple's chips has shown how far behind they are because they only ever competed with each other.

    Their marketing material is also based around theoretical/reference designs. AMD doesn't make the OS or the shipped product so the efficiency, quietness, stability of the retail system depends on Microsoft, PC assembler and AMD components all working well together. They never have in the past, there's no reason to expect it to be different in 2023.

    When Apple releases M2 or M3 Pro/Max chips this year, they will jump ahead 1-2 years again. Intel openly admitted they only plan to catchup to Apple in 2024 and surpass them in 2025:

    https://appleinsider.com/articles/21/10/28/intel-to-outpace-moores-law-surpass-rivals-in-2025-ceo-says

    Talk is cheap though, Apple actually shipped a better product, marketing talk is meaningless until Intel and AMD ship better products.
    edited January 2023 killroyforegoneconclusiondanoxwatto_cobrabestkeptsecretn2itivguybloggerblogroundaboutnow
  • Reply 16 of 36
    coolfactorcoolfactor Posts: 2,323member
    DuhSesame said:
    Actually, if you count how old the microarchitecture is, the M1 is a two-year-old technology.  It took another year for Apple to deliver their Pro and Max lineups.  While they’re impressive chips, they aren’t that advanced like most of us would think.

    Huh? Not that advanced? What evidence is such a claim based on? What would make them more advanced?
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 17 of 36
    dk49dk49 Posts: 281member
    What people forget is that the biggest USP of Apple Silicon is performance/watt. Beat that and you have my money. 
    watto_cobran2itivguy
  • Reply 18 of 36
    "Apple is also guilty of overplaying its hand in a keynote presentation with selective benchmarks"

    Huh?
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 19 of 36
    danoxdanox Posts: 3,280member
    Unplug any Intel based laptop or AMD based laptop from the wall and see what they do battery wise, neither one can really catch up to Apple because they don’t have a in-house OS, the Apple disruption is the fact that Apple designs and engineers both the OS and the chips, together as one, they won’t be catching up, functionality they can’t catch up unless they work with Microsoft directly cheek to cheek, and that’s not gonna happen. Microsoft and Intel would have to compromise and since when will they ever do that really?

    Maybe the incentive would come if Apple would get into web services and build servers. Maybe that might egg them on to cooperate, also note Qualcomm is on the horizon with those three ex-Apple engineers are working on a new SOC chip too, that chip might also be designed for servers along with being a chip that would be used in smart phones and tablets. The next three years it’s going to be very interesting indeed.

    The only thing they Intel and AMD can do right now is pump up the frequency and use more wattage (energy), I believe Apple is running at 3.2 3.4 ghz at this time which is a lot lower than the 5.2 ghz barn burners which is what Intel and AMD are demonstrating in most of their presentations.

    Because Apple designs both the OS and the hardware under one roof Apple can afford to design a more elegant solution while Intel and AMD are stuck using brute force, they have no choice they can’t directly change the OS to fit the hardware nor can they add any other new co-processing chips (not without Microsoft approval) into the mix hence they are disrupted.
    9secondkox2watto_cobra
  • Reply 20 of 36
    All the “M1 killer” talk is ridiculous. 

    Intel has been able to be faster than M1 when it goes crazy with power and heat. It’s a given AMD can do this too. Heck, Apple could go thermonuclear and end then all with ease of it wanted to play that game. But they have actual products to sell - not just SOCs for gamers with liquid cooled cases to buy. 

    We’ve seen what happens to Intels best when put into a laptop. It’s embarrassing. But makes for great keynote presentations. 

    This is not apples to apples. So AMD is free to use their SOC in whatever environment they want, but apples SOC gets constrained by thermally limited, mobile housings in actual products that it warranties.  

    (Makes me wonder what 3nm Mac Pro SOCs will be clocked at…) 

    So this article is on point: none of this is worth anything until we have shipping products to test. 

    Going to be a wake up call for AMD. And more than a little embarrassing when an aging M1 generation spanks it in actual use. 
    edited January 2023 watto_cobrabestkeptsecret
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