New HomePod vs 2018 HomePod - compared

13

Comments

  • Reply 41 of 67
    AppleZuluAppleZulu Posts: 1,661member
    hmlongco said:
    Okay. Now Apple needs a BassPod subwoofer and the ability to tie it and and a few HomePods and HomePod minis into a true Spatial Audio network that supports Atmos.

    THAT would rock.
    Minis don’t sound as good and lack the hardware for adjusting output to the room and the other HomePods, so they wouldn’t work in a set with the larger HomePods. A surround setup would require at least four regular HomePods. I don’t think, however, that a separate “BassPod” would be necessary; HomePods already put out good bass frequencies. Six would probably be required to truly reproduce the y-axis information in Dolby Atmos audio. For less than that price, you can get a really good amp plus 7.1 speakers. 
    cornchipwatto_cobratwokatmew
  • Reply 42 of 67
    @ecarlseen you’re making it sound like you need WiFi 6 to use WPA3, which is not true. As a matter of fact, my main network is WPA3-only and the original HomePods, a HomePod mini and my Watch Series 7 all connect perfectly fine to it. The HomePod mini and Watch Series 7 both use WiFi 4 802.11n.

    Seriously, while the decrease in WiFi protocol and the amount of speakers and microphones might seem like odd decisions, the end product might actually be better and sound better too… I’ll be waiting for comparison reviews and might replace my two original HomePods (which are still working perfectly after 5 years, running the latest firmware) if they are found to be better sounding.

    Y’all should give the product a chance before writing it off. Just my two cents.
    edited January 19 williamlondoncornchipwatto_cobraappleinsideruser
  • Reply 43 of 67
    cg27cg27 Posts: 192member
    spock1234 said:
    cg27 said:
    So my new LG TV with built-in AppleTV app wouldn’t work with HomePods unless I hookup an AppleTV?
    The AppleTV App is software designed to let your TV access the media from Apple. The AppleTV box is hardware with the components needed to connect to HomePods. Why is this so difficult for you to understand?
    Easy there, tiger.  I’m asking just to be sure that if I bought a pair of HomePods that Bluetooth from the TV wouldn’t enable them, and that I’d need an AppleTV.  If that’s the case, then for ~$800 for the two HomePods and AppleTV it doesn’t seem worth it, better off with a dedicated high end sound bar since I don’t need Siri in my speakers.  I have Siri on my watch and phone.
    danoxchasm
  • Reply 44 of 67
    Seems to be a Tim Cook cost-cutting relaunch. 
    Still, the cord is fixed to the HomePod instead of being able to detach it.
    Still, it has no battery. Still, Siri does not work with Spotify. And still, the top Siri controls are awkward.
    williamlondonentropystwokatmew
  • Reply 45 of 67
    Meanwhile, back at the ranch, my stereo(!) class-A amplifier Apple iPod Hi-Fi is still going strong,
    not using the decrepit iPod connectors (or the useless boom-box battery mode), but as a wired
    sound bar for my kitchen TV.  If I want to get really fancy, I suppose I could airplay something
    to it using ye olde airport express connected via the optical jack!  (Old farts at play.)




    edited January 19 williamlondonwatto_cobradanox
  • Reply 46 of 67
    Seriously, while the decrease in WiFi protocol and the amount of speakers and microphones might seem like odd decisions, the end product might actually be better and sound better too… I’ll be waiting for comparison reviews and might replace my two original HomePods (which are still working perfectly after 5 years, running the latest firmware) if they are found to be better sounding.

    Y’all should give the product a chance before writing it off. Just my two cents.

    I wasn't attacking the new HomePod. I have an original HomePod. Sits by my bedside. I use it often. I'm quite happy with it, even at the price. I'm glad they've introduced a real replacement.

    I was merely explaining why WiFi-4 is still a popular choice with device vendors.  The comment about WPA3 was a side-issue related to that. Incidentally, WiFi-4 spec was finalized in 2008, WiFi-5 in 2015. WPA3 was not available until 2018, was integrated as part of 802.11ac Wave 2 (WiFI-5½) and WIFI-6, and was not considered mandatory for WiFi logo requirements until 2020 (there were a lot of cheap garbage WiFi-6 devices that only have WPA2). It's theoretically possible to use WPA3 with WiFi-4 and WiFi-5 radios and somebody has probably done it, but it's not official spec. WiFi-7 is bringing changes to fix the whole IoT WiFi mess with some accommodations for ultra-low-power devices (yay!).

    To really get into the weeds, the WPA3 issue with IoT is that the protocol requires massively more CPU power than WPA2. Keep in mind that most IoT devices run on microcontrollers that are so simple and tiny they make even small ARM cores look like gigantic power-hungry beasts by comparison.
    edited January 19 watto_cobratwokatmew
  • Reply 47 of 67
    irnchrizirnchriz Posts: 1,610member
    Hope it’s better built than the first.  Popping sounds then overheating failure or the pops stop but there’s little bass because the sub fried.  I have 4 working units left that I don’t use as they all were getting hot when used as a stereo pair in ARC mode with Apple TV when any Siri functionality was left enabled.  I really should have sold them on but didn’t want the hassle when they failed for someone else.  Guess that’s how Apple felt about the 1st gen too, LOL 
    JosephAUtwokatmew
  • Reply 48 of 67
    charlesn said:
    Sometimes I really don't understand Apple decisions. WiFi 7 is just around the corner, with the draft standard having been written two years ago, but the 2023 Home Pod takes us back to WiFi 4 (or "n") that debuted in 2009? I get that it doesn't need the speed of WiFi 6, but there are far fewer routers and devices currently using 6, which becomes a helpful factor when you live in an apartment building and 40-something networks other than your own come up under wifi. How much extra could wifi 6 support have cost Apple? Similarly, why not support the latest Bluetooth standard, 5.3, in a newly released speaker, instead of 5.0 from 7 years ago? 
    Both would use a lot more power, since the modems for those are still in it's infancy. Also, increased licensing costs. And it's totally not needed.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 49 of 67
    charlesn said:
    Sometimes I really don't understand Apple decisions. WiFi 7 is just around the corner, with the draft standard having been written two years ago, but the 2023 Home Pod takes us back to WiFi 4 (or "n") that debuted in 2009? I get that it doesn't need the speed of WiFi 6, but there are far fewer routers and devices currently using 6, which becomes a helpful factor when you live in an apartment building and 40-something networks other than your own come up under wifi. How much extra could wifi 6 support have cost Apple? Similarly, why not support the latest Bluetooth standard, 5.3, in a newly released speaker, instead of 5.0 from 7 years ago? 
    There is absolutely no reason this device needs anything close to WiFi 6. 802.11n is more than sufficient for all its needs, probably by a factor of 100 or so. Perhaps you should take 15 seconds to look into this before reflexively criticizing decisions you don't know anything about.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 50 of 67
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 6,798member
    charlesn said:
    Sometimes I really don't understand Apple decisions. WiFi 7 is just around the corner, with the draft standard having been written two years ago, but the 2023 Home Pod takes us back to WiFi 4 (or "n") that debuted in 2009? I get that it doesn't need the speed of WiFi 6, but there are far fewer routers and devices currently using 6, which becomes a helpful factor when you live in an apartment building and 40-something networks other than your own come up under wifi. How much extra could wifi 6 support have cost Apple? Similarly, why not support the latest Bluetooth standard, 5.3, in a newly released speaker, instead of 5.0 from 7 years ago? 
    There is absolutely no reason this device needs anything close to WiFi 6. 802.11n is more than sufficient for all its needs, probably by a factor of 100 or so. Perhaps you should take 15 seconds to look into this before reflexively criticizing decisions you don't know anything about.
    I think the possible root issue with this kind of device is that its needs have been projected too low in the eyes of some.

    As a device that should last and be perfectly functional for many years to come, employing older technologies is a little jarring.

    Wi-Fi 6 power needs are not really an issue on any wired device. 

    Wi-Fi 6 on IoT actually brings some important advantages over the previous wifi spec in the form of 20MHz mode, Target Wake Time etc for power efficiency.

    Just like with the original HP, this one seems to be not very forward thinking. From a product perspective that may be fine for many folks for whom it meets their needs. In that sense the current wifi and processing capabilities will do just fine. 

    However, IoT is very much the present and the future. A future where a product's hardware capabilities will be abstracted and offered up for other devices to use as if they were native. From that perspective, this device really should have been more capable. A true, modern, secure, low latency, QoS device that would fit into a consumer IoT environment.

    For me this product, at the very least, could have been part of an Apple branded mesh system (along with the HP minis).

    I admit I was a big fan of AirPort hardware and software. 
    muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 51 of 67
    AppleZuluAppleZulu Posts: 1,661member
    avon b7 said:
    charlesn said:
    Sometimes I really don't understand Apple decisions. WiFi 7 is just around the corner, with the draft standard having been written two years ago, but the 2023 Home Pod takes us back to WiFi 4 (or "n") that debuted in 2009? I get that it doesn't need the speed of WiFi 6, but there are far fewer routers and devices currently using 6, which becomes a helpful factor when you live in an apartment building and 40-something networks other than your own come up under wifi. How much extra could wifi 6 support have cost Apple? Similarly, why not support the latest Bluetooth standard, 5.3, in a newly released speaker, instead of 5.0 from 7 years ago? 
    There is absolutely no reason this device needs anything close to WiFi 6. 802.11n is more than sufficient for all its needs, probably by a factor of 100 or so. Perhaps you should take 15 seconds to look into this before reflexively criticizing decisions you don't know anything about.
    I think the possible root issue with this kind of device is that its needs have been projected too low in the eyes of some.

    As a device that should last and be perfectly functional for many years to come, employing older technologies is a little jarring.

    Wi-Fi 6 power needs are not really an issue on any wired device. 

    Wi-Fi 6 on IoT actually brings some important advantages over the previous wifi spec in the form of 20MHz mode, Target Wake Time etc for power efficiency.

    Just like with the original HP, this one seems to be not very forward thinking. From a product perspective that may be fine for many folks for whom it meets their needs. In that sense the current wifi and processing capabilities will do just fine. 

    However, IoT is very much the present and the future. A future where a product's hardware capabilities will be abstracted and offered up for other devices to use as if they were native. From that perspective, this device really should have been more capable. A true, modern, secure, low latency, QoS device that would fit into a consumer IoT environment.

    For me this product, at the very least, could have been part of an Apple branded mesh system (along with the HP minis).

    I admit I was a big fan of AirPort hardware and software. 
    I thought that, too, but from an engineering standpoint, perhaps it's not that great an idea. Placement of mesh routers and of HomePods have very different priorities. Mesh routers need to be placed in more central locations that provide optimal backhaul communication among the routers, while providing coverage for all the connecting devices in the home or building. HomePods need to be placed for optimal acoustics, tempered only by the need to be within range of a WiFi router. If the HomePods were serving as mesh routers themselves, most users would still prioritize placement of the devices based on acoustics, potentially weakening backhaul communication among the mesh routers, and would then get irritated at sketchy WiFi connections serving all the other devices in the house. The result would be lowered customer satisfaction in the devices overall. Using HomePods as Thread extenders is fine, since that's a low power, low bandwidth daisy chaining proposition. Not so much with WiFi.
    edited January 19 muthuk_vanalingamwatto_cobra
  • Reply 52 of 67
    danoxdanox Posts: 1,840member
    charlesn said:
    Sometimes I really don't understand Apple decisions. WiFi 7 is just around the corner, with the draft standard having been written two years ago, but the 2023 Home Pod takes us back to WiFi 4 (or "n") that debuted in 2009? I get that it doesn't need the speed of WiFi 6, but there are far fewer routers and devices currently using 6, which becomes a helpful factor when you live in an apartment building and 40-something networks other than your own come up under wifi. How much extra could wifi 6 support have cost Apple? Similarly, why not support the latest Bluetooth standard, 5.3, in a newly released speaker, instead of 5.0 from 7 years ago? 

    The life span of good speakers last more than a decade and not having any wired connections is a big problem. Good luck, throwing it away in five years, because some piece of software isn’t supported by Apple anymore.
    williamlondon
  • Reply 53 of 67
    danoxdanox Posts: 1,840member
    charlesn said:
    Sometimes I really don't understand Apple decisions. WiFi 7 is just around the corner, with the draft standard having been written two years ago, but the 2023 Home Pod takes us back to WiFi 4 (or "n") that debuted in 2009? I get that it doesn't need the speed of WiFi 6, but there are far fewer routers and devices currently using 6, which becomes a helpful factor when you live in an apartment building and 40-something networks other than your own come up under wifi. How much extra could wifi 6 support have cost Apple? Similarly, why not support the latest Bluetooth standard, 5.3, in a newly released speaker, instead of 5.0 from 7 years ago? 
    There is absolutely no reason this device needs anything close to WiFi 6. 802.11n is more than sufficient for all its needs, probably by a factor of 100 or so. Perhaps you should take 15 seconds to look into this before reflexively criticizing decisions you don't know anything about.
    I think you’re the one who is confused. This is a typical two steps forward one step back Apple product, and it’s designed for the landfill when they decide not to support a particular software-hardware feature, in two years, three years, four years, you’re dead, throw it away and buy another?, good speakers last more than a decade if they are wired too which this future landfill beauty is not.

    Unintentionally this new HomePod just emphasizes the fact that Apple made a big mistake getting out of making Airport routers. How do you do anything in the home with cohesion if you don’t control the last mile, two steps forward, one step back.

    Apple, once again, will be rolling up their sleeves, trying to fix third-party lack of support, the general market builds to the larger market and not Apple, so again to plug in the gaps, Apple will need to step in, with new inputs and outputs, Airport routers, the re-introduction of MagSafe over a range of products, more curated monitors, and in the end Mac servers, etc…..
    edited January 19 williamlondonentropysmuthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 54 of 67
    danox said:
    charlesn said:
    Sometimes I really don't understand Apple decisions. WiFi 7 is just around the corner, with the draft standard having been written two years ago, but the 2023 Home Pod takes us back to WiFi 4 (or "n") that debuted in 2009? I get that it doesn't need the speed of WiFi 6, but there are far fewer routers and devices currently using 6, which becomes a helpful factor when you live in an apartment building and 40-something networks other than your own come up under wifi. How much extra could wifi 6 support have cost Apple? Similarly, why not support the latest Bluetooth standard, 5.3, in a newly released speaker, instead of 5.0 from 7 years ago? 
    There is absolutely no reason this device needs anything close to WiFi 6. 802.11n is more than sufficient for all its needs, probably by a factor of 100 or so. Perhaps you should take 15 seconds to look into this before reflexively criticizing decisions you don't know anything about.
    I think you’re the one who is confused. This is a typical two steps forward one step back Apple product, and it’s designed for the landfill when they decide not to support a particular software-hardware feature, in two years, three years, four years, you’re dead, throw it away and buy another?, good speakers last more than a decade if they are wired too which this future landfill beauty is not.

    Unintentionally this new HomePod just emphasizes the fact that Apple made a big mistake getting out of making Airport routers. How do you do anything in the home with cohesion if you don’t control the last mile, two steps forward, one step back.

    Apple, once again, will be rolling up their sleeves, trying to fix third-party lack of support, the general market builds to the larger market and not Apple, so again to plug in the gaps, Apple will need to step in, with new inputs and outputs, Airport routers, the re-introduction of MagSafe over a range of products, more curated monitors, and in the end Mac servers, etc…..
    A real clairvoyant.
    cornchipwatto_cobra
  • Reply 55 of 67
    cornchipcornchip Posts: 1,930member
    This can only mean HomePod Pro is right around the corner.
    watto_cobraSnapdog
  • Reply 56 of 67
    danoxdanox Posts: 1,840member
    Seems to be a Tim Cook cost-cutting relaunch. 
    Still, the cord is fixed to the HomePod instead of being able to detach it.
    Still, it has no battery. Still, Siri does not work with Spotify. And still, the top Siri controls are awkward.
    That’s Spotify’s job not Apple.
  • Reply 57 of 67
    danoxdanox Posts: 1,840member

    danox said:
    charlesn said:
    Sometimes I really don't understand Apple decisions. WiFi 7 is just around the corner, with the draft standard having been written two years ago, but the 2023 Home Pod takes us back to WiFi 4 (or "n") that debuted in 2009? I get that it doesn't need the speed of WiFi 6, but there are far fewer routers and devices currently using 6, which becomes a helpful factor when you live in an apartment building and 40-something networks other than your own come up under wifi. How much extra could wifi 6 support have cost Apple? Similarly, why not support the latest Bluetooth standard, 5.3, in a newly released speaker, instead of 5.0 from 7 years ago? 
    There is absolutely no reason this device needs anything close to WiFi 6. 802.11n is more than sufficient for all its needs, probably by a factor of 100 or so. Perhaps you should take 15 seconds to look into this before reflexively criticizing decisions you don't know anything about.
    I think you’re the one who is confused. This is a typical two steps forward one step back Apple product, and it’s designed for the landfill when they decide not to support a particular software-hardware feature, in two years, three years, four years, you’re dead, throw it away and buy another?, good speakers last more than a decade if they are wired too which this future landfill beauty is not.

    Unintentionally this new HomePod just emphasizes the fact that Apple made a big mistake getting out of making Airport routers. How do you do anything in the home with cohesion if you don’t control the last mile, two steps forward, one step back.

    Apple, once again, will be rolling up their sleeves, trying to fix third-party lack of support, the general market builds to the larger market and not Apple, so again to plug in the gaps, Apple will need to step in, with new inputs and outputs, Airport routers, the re-introduction of MagSafe over a range of products, more curated monitors, and in the end Mac servers, etc…..
    A real clairvoyant.

    Don’t need to be it’s pretty obvious, MagSafe is back, curated Apple monitors are back (why color accuracy, scaling, and the overall fit and finish, some type of Apple Express router or server will come into existence why because the general market again won’t support Apple devices very well.

    The physical, Apple stores didn’t come into being because Apple was being supported by physical retail stores at the time they weren’t. If Apple had waited for their support, they wouldn’t be anywhere near close to where they are today.
    entropyswilliamlondon
  • Reply 58 of 67
    irnchriz said:
    Hope it’s better built than the first.  Popping sounds then overheating failure or the pops stop but there’s little bass because the sub fried.  I have 4 working units left that I don’t use as they all were getting hot when used as a stereo pair in ARC mode with Apple TV when any Siri functionality was left enabled.  I really should have sold them on but didn’t want the hassle when they failed for someone else.  Guess that’s how Apple felt about the 1st gen too, LOL 
    Mine started having a burning smell and the Genius Bar told me to stop using it but wouldn’t replace it! 
    williamlondontwokatmew
  • Reply 59 of 67
    danoxdanox Posts: 1,840member
    loquitur said:
    Meanwhile, back at the ranch, my stereo(!) class-A amplifier Apple iPod Hi-Fi is still going strong,
    not using the decrepit iPod connectors (or the useless boom-box battery mode), but as a wired
    sound bar for my kitchen TV.  If I want to get really fancy, I suppose I could airplay something
    to it using ye olde airport express connected via the optical jack!  (Old farts at play.)




    Still have my Apple iPod hi-fi still works great, and is usable because of wired connections Apple can discontinue any piece of software they want but I am still able to use it
    muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 60 of 67
    chasmchasm Posts: 2,771member
    Appleish said:
    Fewer speakers and microphones inside? So it's a tech spec bump and a cost cutting exercise. 
    Fewer *tweeters,* but only testing will tell us if they’re cost-cutting or whether it never actually needed six speakers, or if the four are designed in a way to do the same job using less power.

    As for fewer microphones, that’s probably not a cost-cutting exercise either. Microphones have also improved over the years.

    Wait for testing instead of jumping to conclusions, maybe. Nobody’s making you sell your old ones …
    williamlondon
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