Do credit card companies make it so you can use the nfc chips in their cards work with other companies? I think not
Yes, they do. Do some research, please.
I worked in a Canadian bank for 17 years. There’s no way they’d let the NFC chip on their Visa card put a transaction through for another Bank’s Visa.
Apple does allow this. But it’s only under their terms, with their privacy and security model. And yes, they take a commission for it and don’t pass personal information about the transaction back to the bank. Good! That’s how I, the customer, want it. And that’s why I chose to set up my card in Apple Pay. And my bank is still making a ton of money from it. I am the customer to the merchant, the bank, and Apple. I WANT it this way.
It's fine that you WANT it that way but it isn't fine that that gets applied to everyone.
My wife doesn't want it that way. She wants to use her bank card through her bank's wallet system just like I do on my Android phone.
She can't because Apple doesn't allow it.
IMO, Apple should make its NFC setup available to banking institutions, inform users of what the options are and let consumers decide.
I can't for the life on me imagine why this is something that a person would want to do. Why do you want to use other wallet apps? What difference does it make?
Do credit card companies make it so you can use the nfc chips in their cards work with other companies? I think not
Be informed. All chip based credit cards use the same standards. So any credit card can be used to pay at any vending terminal that supports nfc, and this happens without any security breaches. You believe too easy the lie Apple marketing departement is telling you that claims that nfc payments with an iPhone can only be safe if Apple is in control the payment app.
Do credit card companies make it so you can use the nfc chips in their cards work with other companies? I think not
It is reasonable to expect a person carry multiple credit and debit cards for the purpose of making payments. It is not reasonable to expect a person to carry multiple phones for the same reason.
Do credit card companies make it so you can use the nfc chips in their cards work with other companies? I think not
Yes, they do. Do some research, please.
I worked in a Canadian bank for 17 years. There’s no way they’d let the NFC chip on their Visa card put a transaction through for another Bank’s Visa.
Apple does allow this. But it’s only under their terms, with their privacy and security model. And yes, they take a commission for it and don’t pass personal information about the transaction back to the bank. Good! That’s how I, the customer, want it. And that’s why I chose to set up my card in Apple Pay. And my bank is still making a ton of money from it. I am the customer to the merchant, the bank, and Apple. I WANT it this way.
It's fine that you WANT it that way but it isn't fine that that gets applied to everyone.
My wife doesn't want it that way. She wants to use her bank card through her bank's wallet system just like I do on my Android phone.
She can't because Apple doesn't allow it.
IMO, Apple should make its NFC setup available to banking institutions, inform users of what the options are and let consumers decide.
I can't for the life on me imagine why this is something that a person would want to do. Why do you want to use other wallet apps? What difference does it make?
Apple wedges itself in as a middleman, prevents competition and takes a cut out of every transaction.
My wife detests that aspect and refuses to use Apple Pay as a result.
That, among other things that she has had to deal with over the years, is seriously wearing down her leanings towards iPhone.
Do credit card companies make it so you can use the nfc chips in their cards work with other companies? I think not
Yes, they do. Do some research, please.
I worked in a Canadian bank for 17 years. There’s no way they’d let the NFC chip on their Visa card put a transaction through for another Bank’s Visa.
Apple does allow this. But it’s only under their terms, with their privacy and security model. And yes, they take a commission for it and don’t pass personal information about the transaction back to the bank. Good! That’s how I, the customer, want it. And that’s why I chose to set up my card in Apple Pay. And my bank is still making a ton of money from it. I am the customer to the merchant, the bank, and Apple. I WANT it this way.
It's fine that you WANT it that way but it isn't fine that that gets applied to everyone.
My wife doesn't want it that way. She wants to use her bank card through her bank's wallet system just like I do on my Android phone.
She can't because Apple doesn't allow it.
IMO, Apple should make its NFC setup available to banking institutions, inform users of what the options are and let consumers decide.
I can't for the life on me imagine why this is something that a person would want to do. Why do you want to use other wallet apps? What difference does it make?
Apple wedges itself in as a middleman, prevents competition and takes a cut out of every transaction.
My wife detests that aspect and refuses to use Apple Pay as a result.
That, among other things that she has had to deal with over the years, is seriously wearing down her leanings towards iPhone.
Sounds like she just shouldn't use an iPhone if she objects to Apple having products with features.
Do credit card companies make it so you can use the nfc chips in their cards work with other companies? I think not
Yes, they do. Do some research, please.
I worked in a Canadian bank for 17 years. There’s no way they’d let the NFC chip on their Visa card put a transaction through for another Bank’s Visa.
Apple does allow this. But it’s only under their terms, with their privacy and security model. And yes, they take a commission for it and don’t pass personal information about the transaction back to the bank. Good! That’s how I, the customer, want it. And that’s why I chose to set up my card in Apple Pay. And my bank is still making a ton of money from it. I am the customer to the merchant, the bank, and Apple. I WANT it this way.
It's fine that you WANT it that way but it isn't fine that that gets applied to everyone.
My wife doesn't want it that way. She wants to use her bank card through her bank's wallet system just like I do on my Android phone.
She can't because Apple doesn't allow it.
IMO, Apple should make its NFC setup available to banking institutions, inform users of what the options are and let consumers decide.
I can't for the life on me imagine why this is something that a person would want to do. Why do you want to use other wallet apps? What difference does it make?
Apple wedges itself in as a middleman, prevents competition and takes a cut out of every transaction.
My wife detests that aspect and refuses to use Apple Pay as a result.
That, among other things that she has had to deal with over the years, is seriously wearing down her leanings towards iPhone.
Sounds like she just shouldn't use an iPhone if she objects to Apple having products with features.
She wants to choose. To have choice. Like I have on my phone.
The devil is very much in the details in these kinds of cases. That is why the different investigations are underway into varying aspects of Apple’s restrictions.
We'll see how things turn out.
In the meantime, there is no guarantee that her next phone will be an iPhone. In the past, Android wasn't even a consideration. That's a big change for someone like her.
She has not had a great experience with her current iPhone and in exactly the same setting, it gets compared to my Android phone.
She hates how heavy it is for example. That though is a common complaint among users. Wi-Fi/Bluetooth performance are sub par. She has run into innumerable Safari (Webkit) issues. Wireless charging sometimes just fails to engage, requiring a restart. Lots of niggles that end up impacting the user experience over time.
Do credit card companies make it so you can use the nfc chips in their cards work with other companies? I think not
Yes, they do. Do some research, please.
I worked in a Canadian bank for 17 years. There’s no way they’d let the NFC chip on their Visa card put a transaction through for another Bank’s Visa.
Apple does allow this. But it’s only under their terms, with their privacy and security model. And yes, they take a commission for it and don’t pass personal information about the transaction back to the bank. Good! That’s how I, the customer, want it. And that’s why I chose to set up my card in Apple Pay. And my bank is still making a ton of money from it. I am the customer to the merchant, the bank, and Apple. I WANT it this way.
It's fine that you WANT it that way but it isn't fine that that gets applied to everyone.
My wife doesn't want it that way. She wants to use her bank card through her bank's wallet system just like I do on my Android phone.
She can't because Apple doesn't allow it.
IMO, Apple should make its NFC setup available to banking institutions, inform users of what the options are and let consumers decide.
I can't for the life on me imagine why this is something that a person would want to do. Why do you want to use other wallet apps? What difference does it make?
Apple wedges itself in as a middleman, prevents competition and takes a cut out of every transaction.
My wife detests that aspect and refuses to use Apple Pay as a result.
That, among other things that she has had to deal with over the years, is seriously wearing down her leanings towards iPhone.
Sounds like she just shouldn't use an iPhone if she objects to Apple having products with features.
She wants to choose. To have choice. Like I have on my phone.
The devil is very much in the details in these kinds of cases. That is why the different investigations are underway into varying aspects of Apple’s restrictions.
We'll see how things turn out.
In the meantime, there is no guarantee that her next phone will be an iPhone. In the past, Android wasn't even a consideration. That's a big change for someone like her.
She has not had a great experience with her current iPhone and in exactly the same setting, it gets compared to my Android phone.
She hates how heavy it is for example. That though is a common complaint among users. Wi-Fi/Bluetooth performance are sub par. She has run into innumerable Safari (Webkit) issues. Wireless charging sometimes just fails to engage, requiring a restart. Lots of niggles that end up impacting the user experience over time.
I find this all very weird. Your wife has a philosophical objection to Apple's vertical business model that they've been operating for years, and only now is it dawning on her that maybe she should have an Android phone instead of an iPhone? Apple Pay launched 9 years ago!
She should try Android, it's clearly the right choice for her. And Apple clearly should pay no regard to the wishes and feelings of people who are fundamentally misaligned with the way they want to do business.
I hope the EU are not taking such petty preferences into account when it's actual competition that should matter.
Do credit card companies make it so you can use the nfc chips in their cards work with other companies? I think not
Yes, they do. Do some research, please.
I worked in a Canadian bank for 17 years. There’s no way they’d let the NFC chip on their Visa card put a transaction through for another Bank’s Visa.
Apple does allow this. But it’s only under their terms, with their privacy and security model. And yes, they take a commission for it and don’t pass personal information about the transaction back to the bank. Good! That’s how I, the customer, want it. And that’s why I chose to set up my card in Apple Pay. And my bank is still making a ton of money from it. I am the customer to the merchant, the bank, and Apple. I WANT it this way.
It's fine that you WANT it that way but it isn't fine that that gets applied to everyone.
My wife doesn't want it that way. She wants to use her bank card through her bank's wallet system just like I do on my Android phone.
She can't because Apple doesn't allow it.
IMO, Apple should make its NFC setup available to banking institutions, inform users of what the options are and let consumers decide.
I can't for the life on me imagine why this is something that a person would want to do. Why do you want to use other wallet apps? What difference does it make?
Apple wedges itself in as a middleman, prevents competition and takes a cut out of every transaction.
My wife detests that aspect and refuses to use Apple Pay as a result.
That, among other things that she has had to deal with over the years, is seriously wearing down her leanings towards iPhone.
Sounds like she just shouldn't use an iPhone if she objects to Apple having products with features.
She wants to choose. To have choice. Like I have on my phone.
The devil is very much in the details in these kinds of cases. That is why the different investigations are underway into varying aspects of Apple’s restrictions.
We'll see how things turn out.
In the meantime, there is no guarantee that her next phone will be an iPhone. In the past, Android wasn't even a consideration. That's a big change for someone like her.
She has not had a great experience with her current iPhone and in exactly the same setting, it gets compared to my Android phone.
She hates how heavy it is for example. That though is a common complaint among users. Wi-Fi/Bluetooth performance are sub par. She has run into innumerable Safari (Webkit) issues. Wireless charging sometimes just fails to engage, requiring a restart. Lots of niggles that end up impacting the user experience over time.
I find this all very weird. Your wife has a philosophical objection to Apple's vertical business model that they've been operating for years, and only now is it dawning on her that maybe she should have an Android phone instead of an iPhone? Apple Pay launched 9 years ago!
She should try Android, it's clearly the right choice for her. And Apple clearly should pay no regard to the wishes and feelings of people who are fundamentally misaligned with the way they want to do business.
I hope the EU are not taking such petty preferences into account when it's actual competition that should matter.
Apple isn't allowing competition, hence all the investigations. It's not about someone being misaligned with how a company wants to do business. We know how Apple wants to do business and competition sits well down on the list.
I'd say my wife is actually representative of many iPhone users. She wasn't really aware of the limitations until they were brought to her attention or she had reason to complain about something because it worked for me and not for her.
Apple only has a small percentage of the market in the EU anyway. It's mostly Android. Talking about a lock in the marketplace by Google!!!! Google can spy on people world wide.
In Europe no single company controls more of the smartphone market, and including services, than Apple. That's the same as it is in much of the world. You and others make the common but silly mistake of equating a company and its products and services, Apple, with an entire OS comprised of dozens of disparate companies large and small, and each with their own goals.
Do credit card companies make it so you can use the nfc chips in their cards work with other companies? I think not
Yes, they do. Do some research, please.
I worked in a Canadian bank for 17 years. There’s no way they’d let the NFC chip on their Visa card put a transaction through for another Bank’s Visa.
Apple does allow this. But it’s only under their terms, with their privacy and security model. And yes, they take a commission for it and don’t pass personal information about the transaction back to the bank. Good! That’s how I, the customer, want it. And that’s why I chose to set up my card in Apple Pay. And my bank is still making a ton of money from it. I am the customer to the merchant, the bank, and Apple. I WANT it this way.
It's fine that you WANT it that way but it isn't fine that that gets applied to everyone.
My wife doesn't want it that way. She wants to use her bank card through her bank's wallet system just like I do on my Android phone.
She can't because Apple doesn't allow it.
IMO, Apple should make its NFC setup available to banking institutions, inform users of what the options are and let consumers decide.
I can't for the life on me imagine why this is something that a person would want to do. Why do you want to use other wallet apps? What difference does it make?
Apple wedges itself in as a middleman, prevents competition and takes a cut out of every transaction.
My wife detests that aspect and refuses to use Apple Pay as a result.
That, among other things that she has had to deal with over the years, is seriously wearing down her leanings towards iPhone.
Sounds like she just shouldn't use an iPhone if she objects to Apple having products with features.
She wants to choose. To have choice. Like I have on my phone.
The devil is very much in the details in these kinds of cases. That is why the different investigations are underway into varying aspects of Apple’s restrictions.
We'll see how things turn out.
In the meantime, there is no guarantee that her next phone will be an iPhone. In the past, Android wasn't even a consideration. That's a big change for someone like her.
She has not had a great experience with her current iPhone and in exactly the same setting, it gets compared to my Android phone.
She hates how heavy it is for example. That though is a common complaint among users. Wi-Fi/Bluetooth performance are sub par. She has run into innumerable Safari (Webkit) issues. Wireless charging sometimes just fails to engage, requiring a restart. Lots of niggles that end up impacting the user experience over time.
My recollection is that you purchased an iPhone XR for your wife, at a pretty good price, and that you went through many hoops to get it configured. That phone is likely approaching five years of ownership. You were very unhappy that she chose the iPhone, but credit to you for buying it anyway.
One would think that your wife would have found some economic alternative in the Android OS device world, given the trade in value that the XR had doing those years. That she kept a phone she "has not had a great experience with", and that "the hated how heavy it is", all of these years seems odd.
Why didn't you just get her another phone at some point?
Do credit card companies make it so you can use the nfc chips in their cards work with other companies? I think not
Yes, they do. Do some research, please.
I worked in a Canadian bank for 17 years. There’s no way they’d let the NFC chip on their Visa card put a transaction through for another Bank’s Visa.
Apple does allow this. But it’s only under their terms, with their privacy and security model. And yes, they take a commission for it and don’t pass personal information about the transaction back to the bank. Good! That’s how I, the customer, want it. And that’s why I chose to set up my card in Apple Pay. And my bank is still making a ton of money from it. I am the customer to the merchant, the bank, and Apple. I WANT it this way.
It's fine that you WANT it that way but it isn't fine that that gets applied to everyone.
My wife doesn't want it that way. She wants to use her bank card through her bank's wallet system just like I do on my Android phone.
She can't because Apple doesn't allow it.
IMO, Apple should make its NFC setup available to banking institutions, inform users of what the options are and let consumers decide.
I can't for the life on me imagine why this is something that a person would want to do. Why do you want to use other wallet apps? What difference does it make?
Apple wedges itself in as a middleman, prevents competition and takes a cut out of every transaction.
My wife detests that aspect and refuses to use Apple Pay as a result.
That, among other things that she has had to deal with over the years, is seriously wearing down her leanings towards iPhone.
Sounds like she just shouldn't use an iPhone if she objects to Apple having products with features.
She wants to choose. To have choice. Like I have on my phone.
The devil is very much in the details in these kinds of cases. That is why the different investigations are underway into varying aspects of Apple’s restrictions.
We'll see how things turn out.
In the meantime, there is no guarantee that her next phone will be an iPhone. In the past, Android wasn't even a consideration. That's a big change for someone like her.
She has not had a great experience with her current iPhone and in exactly the same setting, it gets compared to my Android phone.
She hates how heavy it is for example. That though is a common complaint among users. Wi-Fi/Bluetooth performance are sub par. She has run into innumerable Safari (Webkit) issues. Wireless charging sometimes just fails to engage, requiring a restart. Lots of niggles that end up impacting the user experience over time.
My recollection is that you purchased an iPhone XR for your wife, at a pretty good price, and that you went through many hoops to get it configured. That phone is likely approaching five years of ownership. You were very unhappy that she chose the iPhone, but credit to you for buying it anyway.
One would think that your wife would have found some economic alternative in the Android OS device world, given the trade in value that the XR had doing those years. That she kept a phone she "has not had a great experience with", and that "the hated how heavy it is", all of these years seems odd.
Why didn't you just get her another phone at some point?
I'm going to venture a guess that "She wasn't really aware of the limitations until they were brought to her attention or she had reason to complain about something because it worked for me and not for her" has involved some five years of passive aggressive comments from Mr Avon and inserting his own opinions about Apple's approach towards Apple Pay.
Like I said, I cannot conceive of why any iPhone user would care a jot about whether a bank can install their own Wallet app. Not an issue for anyone other than open platform zealots, the kind of which would never be iPhone users in the first place. This is Avon's opinion, not his wife's.
She should try Android, it's clearly the right choice for her. And Apple clearly should pay no regard to the wishes and feelings of people who are fundamentally misaligned with the way they want to do business.
I find this attitude disingenuous and annoying, and it's bothered me for thirty years:
"I love my Mac, but I really wish it did XYZ." "Buy a Windows PC if you're unhappy."
That's the internet-dweeb equivalent of "fuck off then".
Do credit card companies make it so you can use the nfc chips in their cards work with other companies? I think not
Yes, they do. Do some research, please.
I worked in a Canadian bank for 17 years. There’s no way they’d let the NFC chip on their Visa card put a transaction through for another Bank’s Visa.
Apple does allow this. But it’s only under their terms, with their privacy and security model. And yes, they take a commission for it and don’t pass personal information about the transaction back to the bank. Good! That’s how I, the customer, want it. And that’s why I chose to set up my card in Apple Pay. And my bank is still making a ton of money from it. I am the customer to the merchant, the bank, and Apple. I WANT it this way.
It's fine that you WANT it that way but it isn't fine that that gets applied to everyone.
My wife doesn't want it that way. She wants to use her bank card through her bank's wallet system just like I do on my Android phone.
She can't because Apple doesn't allow it.
IMO, Apple should make its NFC setup available to banking institutions, inform users of what the options are and let consumers decide.
I can't for the life on me imagine why this is something that a person would want to do. Why do you want to use other wallet apps? What difference does it make?
Apple wedges itself in as a middleman, prevents competition and takes a cut out of every transaction.
My wife detests that aspect and refuses to use Apple Pay as a result.
That, among other things that she has had to deal with over the years, is seriously wearing down her leanings towards iPhone.
Sounds like she just shouldn't use an iPhone if she objects to Apple having products with features.
She wants to choose. To have choice. Like I have on my phone.
The devil is very much in the details in these kinds of cases. That is why the different investigations are underway into varying aspects of Apple’s restrictions.
We'll see how things turn out.
In the meantime, there is no guarantee that her next phone will be an iPhone. In the past, Android wasn't even a consideration. That's a big change for someone like her.
She has not had a great experience with her current iPhone and in exactly the same setting, it gets compared to my Android phone.
She hates how heavy it is for example. That though is a common complaint among users. Wi-Fi/Bluetooth performance are sub par. She has run into innumerable Safari (Webkit) issues. Wireless charging sometimes just fails to engage, requiring a restart. Lots of niggles that end up impacting the user experience over time.
My recollection is that you purchased an iPhone XR for your wife, at a pretty good price, and that you went through many hoops to get it configured. That phone is likely approaching five years of ownership. You were very unhappy that she chose the iPhone, but credit to you for buying it anyway.
One would think that your wife would have found some economic alternative in the Android OS device world, given the trade in value that the XR had doing those years. That she kept a phone she "has not had a great experience with", and that "the hated how heavy it is", all of these years seems odd.
Why didn't you just get her another phone at some point?
New iPhones are very expensive here. I've seen reports of a 40% Q1 drop YoY in this market. Neither of us see any value for the current asking prices. It seems we are not alone in holding off.
Trade-in value is near to nothing too. The current phone was an exceptional purchase because we refused to pay the original asking price at release. We weren't alone and Apple rushed discounts to market to shift units. It was only because of that that we even bothered.
We are now in the same situation as back then.
The sole advantage from my side is that she doesn't really like change in daily things so she isn't one to change phones every year or two.
Things like weight aren't things you really appreciate until you've had the phone for a while and then it gets worse over time as your attention is drawn to it more and more.
Although the current squared off design is one of my all time favourites, there is no question that the larger sizes today are uncomfortable in smaller hands.
The iOS/Apple 'control' side of things is also something that creeps in slowly and often needs to be pointed out before it is fully understood.
I don't run around trying to make her switch to Android but if she brings something up, I tell it like it is.
Sometimes it's a day-to-day thing like charging. She sees my phone charging at lightning speed (LOL) and she would love that.
She hates FaceID. First, because it has never been able to 'learn' her face with glasses on and second because of the pandemic which really drove home Apple’s refusal to have more than one biometric option for iPhone. Now, every time FaceID attempts to kick in and she forgets she's wearing glasses there is a lot of swearing.
Other times it's something like the Apple Pay thing, where she knows that BBVA Pay exists and suddenly she realises she can only go through Apple on her phone. Then you talk about what's really happening behind the scenes and it really irks her. That control again. Perhaps if she were given an option she would choose Apple Pay but knowing (now) that Apple is taking that decision for her is just pissing her off.
Same with WhatsApp backups. It was iCloud or no cloud. And a measly 5GB. Upsell is the Apple way. Same with the ridiculously priced storage options on all Apple hardware just about forever.
Why didn't we upgrade the laptops in 2016 with everything ready to go? Wholesale switch to USB-C and ultra high prices. No way! Then the butterfly keyboard, glue everywhere. The added Touch Bar cost. So we got by on the older Macs - and still do.
The butterfly keyboard went. So did the TouchBar. Those, ehem, legacy ports came back but she is now retired and, for security, more and more of my work is done on site and not using my laptops.
Music had to go through iTunes. Email attachments couldn't be downloaded directly to your phone and bluetooth transfers were not allowed, it was AirDrop. She asked why she could send a file directly to a device via Bluetooth on her Mac but not on her phone. The answer is Apple doesn't want her to. That 'control' again. Wi-Fi, Bluetooth and iCloud must be involved simply because it refuses to include the Bluetooth file transfer profile. Those things add up over time.
Then for some of them, things change. For example the Files app came along, which should have been there from day one. Then she realises Apple is playing the Piper for so many things and a certain degree of resentment sets in. It grows with every new discovery.
Every new investigation that hits the news and she wants to know more, when before she wouldn't show much interest.
Sometimes it's also random happenings like the phone ringer that stops working and requires a restart. Wi-Fi just drops to snail speed and it's another restart.
And she is seeing every day that I have none of the problems she has.
Stealth upgrades are another. Auto upgrades are 'off' because she's been bitten far too often by having Apple upgrade the system and then see things break or just get moved around. So she gets reminders for updates (nags) and says 'no' but I say 'look at the tiny sentence on that dialog'. You are saying 'no' but Apple is telling you your 'no' is really a 'yes' and the update will be installed for your own good anyway in the wee hours of the morning if a Wi-Fi connection is available. So my wife says 'WTF!'.
Yes, auto update is 'off' but somehow it she has still seen updates stealthed on her.
Backups for me? I simply plug my T7 into the phone directly and backup in a few minutes. No fuss. No hassle.
Apple basically wants you to go iCloud.
All of this isn't wrapped up in a YouTube video. They are things that accumulate. Little big things.
We still check iPhone options and prices and they are still the first option for her but nowhere near as safe a purchase as they once were. Now, it is 'lock in' that is an impediment and, ironically, that is something else that is dawning on her. It's far more than just not liking the idea of switching to Android because of all the things that would change.
I'm currently testing HarmonyOS on various devices and my next secondary TV will probably be a Huawei Vision to tie in with the ecosystem at home (wearables, tablet, Routers...).
There have been some very strong rumours of a Huawei Non-invasive glucose monitor coming to market soon. Original release dates circulated around the Watch 4 series which was announced last week but without glucose monitoring. It has arterial stiffness sensoring instead. Huawei has confirmed they have the first Gen technology ready to go. If that appears in the near future even at 85% accuracy as rumoured, we will get it. That would put her squarely on the pendulum swinging towards Honor/Huawei for her phone because that feature is a huge attraction for us.
I have no urge to convince her either way. If she needs advice or has doubts I try to clear them up but it's all up to her in the end.
Do credit card companies make it so you can use the nfc chips in their cards work with other companies? I think not
Yes, they do. Do some research, please.
I worked in a Canadian bank for 17 years. There’s no way they’d let the NFC chip on their Visa card put a transaction through for another Bank’s Visa.
Apple does allow this. But it’s only under their terms, with their privacy and security model. And yes, they take a commission for it and don’t pass personal information about the transaction back to the bank. Good! That’s how I, the customer, want it. And that’s why I chose to set up my card in Apple Pay. And my bank is still making a ton of money from it. I am the customer to the merchant, the bank, and Apple. I WANT it this way.
It's fine that you WANT it that way but it isn't fine that that gets applied to everyone.
My wife doesn't want it that way. She wants to use her bank card through her bank's wallet system just like I do on my Android phone.
She can't because Apple doesn't allow it.
IMO, Apple should make its NFC setup available to banking institutions, inform users of what the options are and let consumers decide.
I can't for the life on me imagine why this is something that a person would want to do. Why do you want to use other wallet apps? What difference does it make?
Apple wedges itself in as a middleman, prevents competition and takes a cut out of every transaction.
My wife detests that aspect and refuses to use Apple Pay as a result.
That, among other things that she has had to deal with over the years, is seriously wearing down her leanings towards iPhone.
Here's Germany take on the matter. In 2020, Germany have already pass laws that Apple must allow banks in Germany access to the NFC antenna on an iPhone.
>System enterprises can legally refuse to grant access to an
infrastructure if there are objective reasons to deny that access, such
as for example a concrete threat to the safety and integrity of its
technical infrastructure services. The system enterprise bears the
burden of proof of the existence of a "concrete threat". In addition,
the system enterprise should be able to demonstrate that it has made
reasonable efforts in order to minimise the security risk of that
concrete threat materialising.
The system enterprise is entitled to charge "an appropriate fee"
for granting access to the PSP. Obviously what constitutes an
appropriate fee will be up for discussion.<
AFAIK- So far, there haven't been many, if any at all, Germany banks that have created their own pay wallet with NFC, to compete with Apple Pay. They are all using Apple Pay. Some are speculating that it's cheaper to be in Apple Pay, than to pay Apple an "appropriate fee" to have access to the iPhone NFC antenna. Plus maintaining their own app. Others are saying that most iPhone users will just not use a bank CC, if it's not in Apple Pay, so banks are better off being in Apple Pay, than to lose customers.
And some are speculating that the EU Commission will rule the same way as Germany, in regards to access to the NFC antenna on an iPhone. Only the EU Commission will better define "appropriate fees". But not to the point where Apple must allow free access to their NFC infrastructure on an iPhone.
So in the end, that bank CC that your wife won't use in Apple Pay because she detest that that bank must pay Apple a small fee for each transaction, might end up paying Apple a fee regardless. Either for the use of Apple NFC infrastructure or being in Apple pay. So she might as well switch to Android now.
Do credit card companies make it so you can use the nfc chips in their cards work with other companies? I think not
Yes, they do. Do some research, please.
I worked in a Canadian bank for 17 years. There’s no way they’d let the NFC chip on their Visa card put a transaction through for another Bank’s Visa.
Apple does allow this. But it’s only under their terms, with their privacy and security model. And yes, they take a commission for it and don’t pass personal information about the transaction back to the bank. Good! That’s how I, the customer, want it. And that’s why I chose to set up my card in Apple Pay. And my bank is still making a ton of money from it. I am the customer to the merchant, the bank, and Apple. I WANT it this way.
It's fine that you WANT it that way but it isn't fine that that gets applied to everyone.
My wife doesn't want it that way. She wants to use her bank card through her bank's wallet system just like I do on my Android phone.
She can't because Apple doesn't allow it.
IMO, Apple should make its NFC setup available to banking institutions, inform users of what the options are and let consumers decide.
I can't for the life on me imagine why this is something that a person would want to do. Why do you want to use other wallet apps? What difference does it make?
Apple wedges itself in as a middleman, prevents competition and takes a cut out of every transaction.
My wife detests that aspect and refuses to use Apple Pay as a result.
That, among other things that she has had to deal with over the years, is seriously wearing down her leanings towards iPhone.
Here's Germany take on the matter. In 2020, Germany have already pass laws that Apple must allow banks in Germany access to the NFC antenna on an iPhone.
>System enterprises can legally refuse to grant access to an
infrastructure if there are objective reasons to deny that access, such
as for example a concrete threat to the safety and integrity of its
technical infrastructure services. The system enterprise bears the
burden of proof of the existence of a "concrete threat". In addition,
the system enterprise should be able to demonstrate that it has made
reasonable efforts in order to minimise the security risk of that
concrete threat materialising.
The system enterprise is entitled to charge "an appropriate fee"
for granting access to the PSP. Obviously what constitutes an
appropriate fee will be up for discussion.<
AFAIK- So far, there haven't been many, if any at all, Germany banks that have created their own pay wallet with NFC, to compete with Apple Pay. They are all using Apple Pay. Some are speculating that it's cheaper to be in Apple Pay, than to pay Apple an "appropriate fee" to have access to the iPhone NFC antenna. Plus maintaining their own app. Others are saying that most iPhone users will just not use a bank CC, if it's not in Apple Pay, so banks are better off being in Apple Pay, than to lose customers.
And some are speculating that the EU Commission will rule the same way as Germany, in regards to access to the NFC antenna on an iPhone. Only the EU Commission will better define "appropriate fees". But not to the point where Apple must allow free access to their NFC infrastructure on an iPhone.
So in the end, that bank CC that your wife won't use in Apple Pay because she detest that that bank must pay Apple a small fee for each transaction, might end up paying Apple a fee regardless. Either for the use of Apple NFC infrastructure or being in Apple pay. So she might as well switch to Android now.
That's a lot of speculation for what the EU is going to do. We'll have to wait and see.
She hates FaceID. First, because it has never been able to 'learn' her face with glasses on and second because of the pandemic which really drove home Apple’s refusal to have more than one biometric option for iPhone. Now, every time FaceID attempts to kick in and she forgets she's wearing glasses there is a lot of swearing.
That's really weird. Face ID has never given me any issues, whether I'm wearing regular glasses or any of various sunshades. The only times it fails is when I'm in my stage outfit, wearing shades AND my face covered in reflective golden makeup.
They eventually updated it to work even with face masks during the pandemic — though this was never an issue for me, as it falls back to Apple Watch for unlocking if it fails for other reasons (but I am notified that it has done so).
She hates FaceID. First, because it has never been able to 'learn' her face with glasses on and second because of the pandemic which really drove home Apple’s refusal to have more than one biometric option for iPhone. Now, every time FaceID attempts to kick in and she forgets she's wearing glasses there is a lot of swearing.
That's really weird. Face ID has never given me any issues, whether I'm wearing regular glasses or any of various sunshades. The only times it fails is when I'm in my stage outfit, wearing shades AND my face covered in reflective golden makeup.
They eventually updated it to work even with face masks during the pandemic — though this was never an issue for me, as it falls back to Apple Watch for unlocking if it fails for other reasons (but I am notified that it has done so).
Definitely weird. Her glasses aren't strange in any way and there is nothing out of the ordinary in the lenses either.
Having retired before the pandemic struck and being a high risk patient for Covid 19 she didn't need to get out and about in a city sense. No public transport or aglomerations. We live on the coast out in the country so masks were never really a day-to-day issue for her with FaceID although I believe the capability for FaceID to unlock while wearing a mask was more a convenience unlock feature as opposed to an authentication unlock feature. My understanding was it would allow you to unlock the phone while wearing a mask but not for example to authenticate an Apple ID or bank transaction. I never tried that though.
Comments
My wife detests that aspect and refuses to use Apple Pay as a result.
That, among other things that she has had to deal with over the years, is seriously wearing down her leanings towards iPhone.
The devil is very much in the details in these kinds of cases. That is why the different investigations are underway into varying aspects of Apple’s restrictions.
We'll see how things turn out.
In the meantime, there is no guarantee that her next phone will be an iPhone. In the past, Android wasn't even a consideration. That's a big change for someone like her.
She has not had a great experience with her current iPhone and in exactly the same setting, it gets compared to my Android phone.
She hates how heavy it is for example. That though is a common complaint among users. Wi-Fi/Bluetooth performance are sub par. She has run into innumerable Safari (Webkit) issues. Wireless charging sometimes just fails to engage, requiring a restart. Lots of niggles that end up impacting the user experience over time.
She should try Android, it's clearly the right choice for her. And Apple clearly should pay no regard to the wishes and feelings of people who are fundamentally misaligned with the way they want to do business.
I hope the EU are not taking such petty preferences into account when it's actual competition that should matter.
I'd say my wife is actually representative of many iPhone users. She wasn't really aware of the limitations until they were brought to her attention or she had reason to complain about something because it worked for me and not for her.
One would think that your wife would have found some economic alternative in the Android OS device world, given the trade in value that the XR had doing those years. That she kept a phone she "has not had a great experience with", and that "the hated how heavy it is", all of these years seems odd.
Why didn't you just get her another phone at some point?
Like I said, I cannot conceive of why any iPhone user would care a jot about whether a bank can install their own Wallet app. Not an issue for anyone other than open platform zealots, the kind of which would never be iPhone users in the first place. This is Avon's opinion, not his wife's.
I find this attitude disingenuous and annoying, and it's bothered me for thirty years:
"Buy a Windows PC if you're unhappy."
Trade-in value is near to nothing too. The current phone was an exceptional purchase because we refused to pay the original asking price at release. We weren't alone and Apple rushed discounts to market to shift units. It was only because of that that we even bothered.
We are now in the same situation as back then.
The sole advantage from my side is that she doesn't really like change in daily things so she isn't one to change phones every year or two.
Things like weight aren't things you really appreciate until you've had the phone for a while and then it gets worse over time as your attention is drawn to it more and more.
Although the current squared off design is one of my all time favourites, there is no question that the larger sizes today are uncomfortable in smaller hands.
The iOS/Apple 'control' side of things is also something that creeps in slowly and often needs to be pointed out before it is fully understood.
I don't run around trying to make her switch to Android but if she brings something up, I tell it like it is.
Sometimes it's a day-to-day thing like charging. She sees my phone charging at lightning speed (LOL) and she would love that.
She hates FaceID. First, because it has never been able to 'learn' her face with glasses on and second because of the pandemic which really drove home Apple’s refusal to have more than one biometric option for iPhone. Now, every time FaceID attempts to kick in and she forgets she's wearing glasses there is a lot of swearing.
Other times it's something like the Apple Pay thing, where she knows that BBVA Pay exists and suddenly she realises she can only go through Apple on her phone. Then you talk about what's really happening behind the scenes and it really irks her. That control again. Perhaps if she were given an option she would choose Apple Pay but knowing (now) that Apple is taking that decision for her is just pissing her off.
Same with WhatsApp backups. It was iCloud or no cloud. And a measly 5GB. Upsell is the Apple way. Same with the ridiculously priced storage options on all Apple hardware just about forever.
Why didn't we upgrade the laptops in 2016 with everything ready to go? Wholesale switch to USB-C and ultra high prices. No way! Then the butterfly keyboard, glue everywhere. The added Touch Bar cost. So we got by on the older Macs - and still do.
The butterfly keyboard went. So did the TouchBar. Those, ehem, legacy ports came back but she is now retired and, for security, more and more of my work is done on site and not using my laptops.
Music had to go through iTunes. Email attachments couldn't be downloaded directly to your phone and bluetooth transfers were not allowed, it was AirDrop. She asked why she could send a file directly to a device via Bluetooth on her Mac but not on her phone. The answer is Apple doesn't want her to. That 'control' again. Wi-Fi, Bluetooth and iCloud must be involved simply because it refuses to include the Bluetooth file transfer profile. Those things add up over time.
Then for some of them, things change. For example the Files app came along, which should have been there from day one. Then she realises Apple is playing the Piper for so many things and a certain degree of resentment sets in. It grows with every new discovery.
Every new investigation that hits the news and she wants to know more, when before she wouldn't show much interest.
Sometimes it's also random happenings like the phone ringer that stops working and requires a restart. Wi-Fi just drops to snail speed and it's another restart.
And she is seeing every day that I have none of the problems she has.
Stealth upgrades are another. Auto upgrades are 'off' because she's been bitten far too often by having Apple upgrade the system and then see things break or just get moved around. So she gets reminders for updates (nags) and says 'no' but I say 'look at the tiny sentence on that dialog'. You are saying 'no' but Apple is telling you your 'no' is really a 'yes' and the update will be installed for your own good anyway in the wee hours of the morning if a Wi-Fi connection is available. So my wife says 'WTF!'.
Yes, auto update is 'off' but somehow it she has still seen updates stealthed on her.
Backups for me? I simply plug my T7 into the phone directly and backup in a few minutes. No fuss. No hassle.
Apple basically wants you to go iCloud.
All of this isn't wrapped up in a YouTube video. They are things that accumulate. Little big things.
We still check iPhone options and prices and they are still the first option for her but nowhere near as safe a purchase as they once were. Now, it is 'lock in' that is an impediment and, ironically, that is something else that is dawning on her. It's far more than just not liking the idea of switching to Android because of all the things that would change.
I'm currently testing HarmonyOS on various devices and my next secondary TV will probably be a Huawei Vision to tie in with the ecosystem at home (wearables, tablet, Routers...).
There have been some very strong rumours of a Huawei Non-invasive glucose monitor coming to market soon. Original release dates circulated around the Watch 4 series which was announced last week but without glucose monitoring. It has arterial stiffness sensoring instead. Huawei has confirmed they have the first Gen technology ready to go. If that appears in the near future even at 85% accuracy as rumoured, we will get it. That would put her squarely on the pendulum swinging towards Honor/Huawei for her phone because that feature is a huge attraction for us.
I have no urge to convince her either way. If she needs advice or has doubts I try to clear them up but it's all up to her in the end.
Having retired before the pandemic struck and being a high risk patient for Covid 19 she didn't need to get out and about in a city sense. No public transport or aglomerations. We live on the coast out in the country so masks were never really a day-to-day issue for her with FaceID although I believe the capability for FaceID to unlock while wearing a mask was more a convenience unlock feature as opposed to an authentication unlock feature. My understanding was it would allow you to unlock the phone while wearing a mask but not for example to authenticate an Apple ID or bank transaction. I never tried that though.