The Decline of Europe - makenews/opinion
George Will Opinion
Some select bites from George Will, one of my favorites.
There is no entitlement for France, Germany, Russia and the U.N. They did all in their power to keep Saddam Hussein in power, which makes them accessories to tyranny and war crimes. All Iraq's debts incurred to Russia, France, Germany -- U.S. officials at the U.N. say Germany was even more troublesome than France "in the corridors," meaning in the prewar politics outside the Security Council -- during Saddam's regime should be canceled.
Americans who are apt to argue that U.S. foreign policy needs constant infusions of legitimacy from the approbation of European governments are also apt to deplore, in the domestic culture wars, Eurocentrism in academic curricula. Such Americans resist the cultural products of Europe's centuries of vitality, but defer to the politics of Europe in its decadence.
Why? Perhaps because yesterday's European culture helped make America what it is, and today's European politics expresses resentment and distrust of what America is. Both sensibilities arise from the distaste of some Americans for America.
George makes a pretty good case about the hypocracy and irony occuring among Europeans and also anti-war advocates. I know it is an opinion piece and I treat it accordingly. He argues that the very same progressive elements that declare Europe must validate our actions via the U.N. are also those that would decry their entire history here at home(Why teach dead white men, etc.)
Likewise Europe no longer has a credibe military. Many of their economies are mired in recession or at minimum stagnant growth. Lastly, demographically they are moving toward irrelevence because their birth rate is so low, they will not be able to replace their current population and instead will suffer population declines.
Let me be the first though to say that I gladly pounce on people who espouse problems or answers based on exponential trends. (imagine if X grew at 15% for the next 10 years...type stuff) However I don't consider birthrate to be this type of issue. However I will acknowledge up front that all Europeans could begin copulating furiously and have 8 children a piece starting... oh now....
What do you think? Opinions? Is Europe irrelevent?
Nick
Some select bites from George Will, one of my favorites.
There is no entitlement for France, Germany, Russia and the U.N. They did all in their power to keep Saddam Hussein in power, which makes them accessories to tyranny and war crimes. All Iraq's debts incurred to Russia, France, Germany -- U.S. officials at the U.N. say Germany was even more troublesome than France "in the corridors," meaning in the prewar politics outside the Security Council -- during Saddam's regime should be canceled.
Americans who are apt to argue that U.S. foreign policy needs constant infusions of legitimacy from the approbation of European governments are also apt to deplore, in the domestic culture wars, Eurocentrism in academic curricula. Such Americans resist the cultural products of Europe's centuries of vitality, but defer to the politics of Europe in its decadence.
Why? Perhaps because yesterday's European culture helped make America what it is, and today's European politics expresses resentment and distrust of what America is. Both sensibilities arise from the distaste of some Americans for America.
George makes a pretty good case about the hypocracy and irony occuring among Europeans and also anti-war advocates. I know it is an opinion piece and I treat it accordingly. He argues that the very same progressive elements that declare Europe must validate our actions via the U.N. are also those that would decry their entire history here at home(Why teach dead white men, etc.)
Likewise Europe no longer has a credibe military. Many of their economies are mired in recession or at minimum stagnant growth. Lastly, demographically they are moving toward irrelevence because their birth rate is so low, they will not be able to replace their current population and instead will suffer population declines.
Let me be the first though to say that I gladly pounce on people who espouse problems or answers based on exponential trends. (imagine if X grew at 15% for the next 10 years...type stuff) However I don't consider birthrate to be this type of issue. However I will acknowledge up front that all Europeans could begin copulating furiously and have 8 children a piece starting... oh now....
What do you think? Opinions? Is Europe irrelevent?
Nick
Comments
Americans who are apt to argue that U.S. foreign policy needs constant infusions of legitimacy from the approbation of European governments are also apt to deplore, in the domestic culture wars, Eurocentrism in academic curricula. Such Americans resist the cultural products of Europe's centuries of vitality, but defer to the politics of Europe in its decadence.
straw men take cover!
what a mess
a buncha generalities whose sole intent seems to be to pat the like-minded on the back, congratulating them for thinking the same thing . . . and what that is is pretty difficult to unearth from his hackneyed prose . . .except for maybe that he says: "liberals who want International Law from the UN also want to expand the Cannon of culture beyond the fixed set of white 'authorities', they seem to be contradicting their own ure to transcend 'European culture'"
if it were that simple, wouldn't the world be a nice place?!?!?
Thse stupid Liberal pinko scum . . . there they go again . . . habitually anti-American...what a buncha dummies
You've got a mindset - represented by various groups and figureheads - who seem to want to downplay or replace Europe, its history and influence, its great citizens, explorers, politicians, scientists, etc. in schools, in favor of other, trendier "feel good" avenues. That same group might then, suddenly, look at - and point to - Europe as a model that the U.S. should model itself after a bit more in certain areas. Kinda playing the whole "ding it when it doesn't fit your agenda, embrace it when it does..." sort of thing.
That's what I took from it and I think it has some truth to it. But maybe I should read it a couple of more times to make really sure.
But the simple fact that the holy trinity of ShawnPatrick, pfflam and giant are all in "aggreeance" (thanks, Fred!) on this kinda points the way and tells me that I MUST'VE read and understood it correctly. Where's bunge?
I kid because I love. Or the other way around. Something like that...
Originally posted by pfflam
Wow, I knew Will was an ideologue knee-jerk . . . but I had no idea he was such a terrible writer as well
what a mess
a buncha generalities whose sole intent seems to be to pat the like-minded on the back, congratulating them for thinking the same thing . . . and what that is is pretty difficult to unearth from his hackneyed prose . . .except for maybe that he says: "liberals who want International Law from the UN also want to expand the Cannon of culture beyond the fixed set of white 'authorities', they seem to be contradicting their own ure to transcend 'European culture'"
if it were that simple, wouldn't the world be a nice place?!?!?
Thse stupid Liberal pinko scum . . . there they go again . . . habitually anti-American...what a buncha dummies
Using a few generalities yourself I see, but that is okay. They go well when decorating the room with straw men.
Of course he is going to generalize a bit. It is a newspaper column, not a book, or doctoral dissertation. The length by that nature limits how much support he can write down for his claims since they have to be what...800 words maximum?
Since you are blessed with so much more space, perhaps you would like to add a bit more than your own hackneyed misrepresentations of small minded conservatives.
Nick
Originally posted by trumptman
. . . small minded conservatives.
Nick
Well, at least we agree on one thing . . .
As far as the English of my post . . . is it a tad difficult mr. mrmister?!?!
I guess it was the misspelling of 'urge' that threw you off . .
and then this:
holy trinity of ShawnPatrick, pfflam and giant
you folks are fond of finding evil in triads . . . shouldn't we be the 'Unholly Axis' ?!?!
Hey, I never ONCE mentioned "evil" in regards to you guys. You just seem to agree and travel together (philosophically, at least) on these boards, hence my cute little description.
Wrong doesn't equal evil.
Originally posted by pscates
You've got a mindset - represented by various groups and figureheads - who seem to want to downplay or replace Europe, its history and influence, its great citizens, explorers, politicians, scientists, etc. in schools, in favor of other, trendier "feel good" avenues. That same group might then, suddenly, look at - and point to - Europe as a model that the U.S. should model itself after a bit more in certain areas. Kinda playing the whole "ding it when it doesn't fit your agenda, embrace it when it does..." sort of thing.
and they usually have the name george or lary or sue, but not rick, and they wear either boot-cut or relaxed fit jeans.
At least ShawnPatrick, wacky as he can be, can write posts I can understand. I don't agree with him at all, but I can understand the guy.
Lest We Forget
France and Belgium pay the price for backing Saddam.
BY MICHAEL GONZALEZ
Saturday, April 12, 2003 12:01 a.m. EDT
BRUSSELS--"How did we get here?" asked a former French minister in a newspaper column recently. "Here" is a situation in which French Jews are being beaten up in the streets of Paris and in which President Jacques Chirac has to write to Queen Elizabeth to apologize for the desecration of British tombs in France, and in which one-third of the French have been pulling for Saddam Hussein to win.
...
Originally posted by pscates
What are you even talking about?
you are just making it all up
Originally posted by Scott
I'll throw this log on the fire. Should keep some warm.
Here is another.
What a wonderful world this could be....
Originally posted by pscates
Where's bunge?
Just warming up my keyboard.
Anyone actually care to take a shot at the title of the thread?
Nick
"what a mess
a buncha generalities whose sole intent seems to be to pat the like-minded on the back, congratulating them for thinking the same thing . . . and what that is is pretty difficult to unearth from his hackneyed prose . . .except for maybe that he says: "liberals who want International Law from the UN also want to expand the Cannon of culture beyond the fixed set of white 'authorities', they seem to be contradicting their own ure to transcend 'European culture'"
if it were that simple, wouldn't the world be a nice place?!?!?"
On Europe, yes, for maybe a little while---IF the EU pans out (and it really looks like it will.)
On the population/copulation issue the problem is that they have a negative birth rate---a fact that really stands a lot of economic models on their head. I think Japan is finding this out the hard way.
When the tax base bottoms out, Western Europe will collapse, and we'll be there to save their butts again. That's why they annoy me so much, cultured europeans with their cocks of righteousness. They whine about us non stop and I can guarantee we'll bail em out again.
Nothing would tickle me more than for Poland, Romania, Ukraine, etc to join NAFTA. And that's not so far from happening.
The decline of Europe.... Hmmm.... The EU is about to add another 9 or 10 nations to its membership. As a result the European market will be some 400 million people....some 120 million more than the U.S. The Euro continues to strengthen against the US dollar. And...the Euro is making inroads into the $'s territory as the international oil trading currency...this is a huge threat to the US economy. Iraq changed over to the Euro fairly recently....ooops