The Decline of Europe - makenews/opinion

Posted:
in General Discussion edited January 2014
George Will Opinion



Some select bites from George Will, one of my favorites.



There is no entitlement for France, Germany, Russia and the U.N. They did all in their power to keep Saddam Hussein in power, which makes them accessories to tyranny and war crimes. All Iraq's debts incurred to Russia, France, Germany -- U.S. officials at the U.N. say Germany was even more troublesome than France "in the corridors," meaning in the prewar politics outside the Security Council -- during Saddam's regime should be canceled.



Americans who are apt to argue that U.S. foreign policy needs constant infusions of legitimacy from the approbation of European governments are also apt to deplore, in the domestic culture wars, Eurocentrism in academic curricula. Such Americans resist the cultural products of Europe's centuries of vitality, but defer to the politics of Europe in its decadence.



Why? Perhaps because yesterday's European culture helped make America what it is, and today's European politics expresses resentment and distrust of what America is. Both sensibilities arise from the distaste of some Americans for America.




George makes a pretty good case about the hypocracy and irony occuring among Europeans and also anti-war advocates. I know it is an opinion piece and I treat it accordingly. He argues that the very same progressive elements that declare Europe must validate our actions via the U.N. are also those that would decry their entire history here at home(Why teach dead white men, etc.)



Likewise Europe no longer has a credibe military. Many of their economies are mired in recession or at minimum stagnant growth. Lastly, demographically they are moving toward irrelevence because their birth rate is so low, they will not be able to replace their current population and instead will suffer population declines.



Let me be the first though to say that I gladly pounce on people who espouse problems or answers based on exponential trends. (imagine if X grew at 15% for the next 10 years...type stuff) However I don't consider birthrate to be this type of issue. However I will acknowledge up front that all Europeans could begin copulating furiously and have 8 children a piece starting... oh now....



What do you think? Opinions? Is Europe irrelevent?



Nick
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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 158
    groveratgroverat Posts: 10,872member
    Not even with a 10-foot pole.
  • Reply 2 of 158
    giantgiant Posts: 6,041member
    Quote:

    Americans who are apt to argue that U.S. foreign policy needs constant infusions of legitimacy from the approbation of European governments are also apt to deplore, in the domestic culture wars, Eurocentrism in academic curricula. Such Americans resist the cultural products of Europe's centuries of vitality, but defer to the politics of Europe in its decadence.





    straw men take cover!
  • Reply 3 of 158
    pfflampfflam Posts: 5,053member
    Wow, I knew Will was an ideologue knee-jerk . . . but I had no idea he was such a terrible writer as well



    what a mess

    a buncha generalities whose sole intent seems to be to pat the like-minded on the back, congratulating them for thinking the same thing . . . and what that is is pretty difficult to unearth from his hackneyed prose . . .except for maybe that he says: "liberals who want International Law from the UN also want to expand the Cannon of culture beyond the fixed set of white 'authorities', they seem to be contradicting their own ure to transcend 'European culture'"



    if it were that simple, wouldn't the world be a nice place?!?!?



    Thse stupid Liberal pinko scum . . . there they go again . . . habitually anti-American...what a buncha dummies
  • Reply 4 of 158
    The weather is really nice out.
  • Reply 5 of 158
    pscatespscates Posts: 5,847member
    I don't know, giant. That's a pretty cool, easy-to-understand statement.



    You've got a mindset - represented by various groups and figureheads - who seem to want to downplay or replace Europe, its history and influence, its great citizens, explorers, politicians, scientists, etc. in schools, in favor of other, trendier "feel good" avenues. That same group might then, suddenly, look at - and point to - Europe as a model that the U.S. should model itself after a bit more in certain areas. Kinda playing the whole "ding it when it doesn't fit your agenda, embrace it when it does..." sort of thing.







    That's what I took from it and I think it has some truth to it. But maybe I should read it a couple of more times to make really sure.



    But the simple fact that the holy trinity of ShawnPatrick, pfflam and giant are all in "aggreeance" (thanks, Fred!) on this kinda points the way and tells me that I MUST'VE read and understood it correctly. Where's bunge?







    I kid because I love. Or the other way around. Something like that...
  • Reply 6 of 158
    mrmistermrmister Posts: 1,095member
    Pfflam, it might behove you to post in English when accusing others of being difficult to parse.



  • Reply 7 of 158
    trumptmantrumptman Posts: 16,447member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by pfflam

    Wow, I knew Will was an ideologue knee-jerk . . . but I had no idea he was such a terrible writer as well



    what a mess

    a buncha generalities whose sole intent seems to be to pat the like-minded on the back, congratulating them for thinking the same thing . . . and what that is is pretty difficult to unearth from his hackneyed prose . . .except for maybe that he says: "liberals who want International Law from the UN also want to expand the Cannon of culture beyond the fixed set of white 'authorities', they seem to be contradicting their own ure to transcend 'European culture'"



    if it were that simple, wouldn't the world be a nice place?!?!?



    Thse stupid Liberal pinko scum . . . there they go again . . . habitually anti-American...what a buncha dummies




    Using a few generalities yourself I see, but that is okay. They go well when decorating the room with straw men.



    Of course he is going to generalize a bit. It is a newspaper column, not a book, or doctoral dissertation. The length by that nature limits how much support he can write down for his claims since they have to be what...800 words maximum?



    Since you are blessed with so much more space, perhaps you would like to add a bit more than your own hackneyed misrepresentations of small minded conservatives.



    Nick
  • Reply 8 of 158
    pfflampfflam Posts: 5,053member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by trumptman

    . . . small minded conservatives.



    Nick




    Well, at least we agree on one thing . . .





    As far as the English of my post . . . is it a tad difficult mr. mrmister?!?!

    I guess it was the misspelling of 'urge' that threw you off . .



    and then this:
    Quote:

    holy trinity of ShawnPatrick, pfflam and giant



    you folks are fond of finding evil in triads . . . shouldn't we be the 'Unholly Axis' ?!?!
  • Reply 9 of 158
    pscatespscates Posts: 5,847member
    Holly?



    Hey, I never ONCE mentioned "evil" in regards to you guys. You just seem to agree and travel together (philosophically, at least) on these boards, hence my cute little description.



    Wrong doesn't equal evil.



  • Reply 10 of 158
    giantgiant Posts: 6,041member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by pscates



    You've got a mindset - represented by various groups and figureheads - who seem to want to downplay or replace Europe, its history and influence, its great citizens, explorers, politicians, scientists, etc. in schools, in favor of other, trendier "feel good" avenues. That same group might then, suddenly, look at - and point to - Europe as a model that the U.S. should model itself after a bit more in certain areas. Kinda playing the whole "ding it when it doesn't fit your agenda, embrace it when it does..." sort of thing.



    and they usually have the name george or lary or sue, but not rick, and they wear either boot-cut or relaxed fit jeans.
  • Reply 11 of 158
    pscatespscates Posts: 5,847member
    What are you even talking about?



    At least ShawnPatrick, wacky as he can be, can write posts I can understand. I don't agree with him at all, but I can understand the guy.
  • Reply 12 of 158
    scottscott Posts: 7,431member
    I'll throw this log on the fire. Should keep some warm.







    Lest We Forget



    France and Belgium pay the price for backing Saddam.



    BY MICHAEL GONZALEZ

    Saturday, April 12, 2003 12:01 a.m. EDT

    Quote:

    BRUSSELS--"How did we get here?" asked a former French minister in a newspaper column recently. "Here" is a situation in which French Jews are being beaten up in the streets of Paris and in which President Jacques Chirac has to write to Queen Elizabeth to apologize for the desecration of British tombs in France, and in which one-third of the French have been pulling for Saddam Hussein to win.





    ...



  • Reply 13 of 158
    giantgiant Posts: 6,041member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by pscates

    What are you even talking about?




    you are just making it all up
  • Reply 14 of 158
    bungebunge Posts: 7,329member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Scott

    I'll throw this log on the fire. Should keep some warm.



    Here is another.



    What a wonderful world this could be....
  • Reply 15 of 158
    bungebunge Posts: 7,329member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by pscates

    Where's bunge?



    Just warming up my keyboard.



  • Reply 16 of 158
    trumptmantrumptman Posts: 16,447member
    Are we through playing the "I know what you think but what am I" game?



    Anyone actually care to take a shot at the title of the thread?



    Nick
  • Reply 17 of 158
    mrmistermrmister Posts: 1,095member
    Actually it was this run-on sentence, which actually makes it read rather George Will-ish:



    "what a mess

    a buncha generalities whose sole intent seems to be to pat the like-minded on the back, congratulating them for thinking the same thing . . . and what that is is pretty difficult to unearth from his hackneyed prose . . .except for maybe that he says: "liberals who want International Law from the UN also want to expand the Cannon of culture beyond the fixed set of white 'authorities', they seem to be contradicting their own ure to transcend 'European culture'"



    if it were that simple, wouldn't the world be a nice place?!?!?"



  • Reply 18 of 158
    enaena Posts: 667member
    Will is alright---I think he is keen to point out that, in the postmodern landscape, we borrow heavily from each other's pluralism---which can be hypocritical, to say the least.



    On Europe, yes, for maybe a little while---IF the EU pans out (and it really looks like it will.)



    On the population/copulation issue the problem is that they have a negative birth rate---a fact that really stands a lot of economic models on their head. I think Japan is finding this out the hard way.
  • Reply 19 of 158
    splinemodelsplinemodel Posts: 7,311member
    George Will always makes a good case. Whether you like him or not, No journalist I can think of is so solid and nearly irrefutable.



    When the tax base bottoms out, Western Europe will collapse, and we'll be there to save their butts again. That's why they annoy me so much, cultured europeans with their cocks of righteousness. They whine about us non stop and I can guarantee we'll bail em out again.



    Nothing would tickle me more than for Poland, Romania, Ukraine, etc to join NAFTA. And that's not so far from happening.
  • Reply 20 of 158
    sammi josammi jo Posts: 4,634member
    George Will....oh dear me.



    The decline of Europe.... Hmmm.... The EU is about to add another 9 or 10 nations to its membership. As a result the European market will be some 400 million people....some 120 million more than the U.S. The Euro continues to strengthen against the US dollar. And...the Euro is making inroads into the $'s territory as the international oil trading currency...this is a huge threat to the US economy. Iraq changed over to the Euro fairly recently....ooops
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