Nearly every Apple top exec is working on the AR headset

2

Comments

  • Reply 21 of 52
    nubusnubus Posts: 461member
    michelb76 said:
    Obviously this device is not targeted at the general public. I think Apple just needs to get this out to get their feet wet. 
    Then why use the Apple brand for this? They have Beats, Claris, Shazam, and Apple could invent a brand for the next "owned by Apple but not Apple" but selling to defense industry 

    And to those saying "every prediction has been wrong"... iTunes Ping, Segway, Google+, Google Wave, Newton, Apple Pippin,... Products do fail.
  • Reply 22 of 52
    AppleZuluAppleZulu Posts: 2,073member
    nubus said:
    michelb76 said:
    Obviously this device is not targeted at the general public. I think Apple just needs to get this out to get their feet wet. 
    Then why use the Apple brand for this? They have Beats, Claris, Shazam, and Apple could invent a brand for the next "owned by Apple but not Apple" but selling to defense industry 

    And to those saying "every prediction has been wrong"... iTunes Ping, Segway, Google+, Google Wave, Newton, Apple Pippin,... Products do fail.
    Newton and Pippin were mistakes made during Steve Jobs’ exile from Apple. Ping was a feature, not a product, and the rest are not Apple. Nothing is a guaranteed certainty, but betting against Apple has not been a good investment strategy for the last quarter century. 
    watto_cobrawilliamlondon
  • Reply 23 of 52
    Simply hyperbole and everyone knows it.

    That is not how a division of labor works.

    Is a Marketing Manger writing code, soldering prototypes, and packaging products.

    Nonsense.
    BiCdewme
  • Reply 24 of 52
    chutzpahchutzpah Posts: 392member
    Simply hyperbole and everyone knows it.

    That is not how a division of labor works.

    Is a Marketing Manger writing code, soldering prototypes, and packaging products.

    Nonsense.
    You don't think a marketing manager might have some useful skills to add to the launch of a whole new product line?
  • Reply 25 of 52
    foljsfoljs Posts: 390member
    I don't think the majority of the public care about AR/VR. It will just be another product some people will buy. Its no great inovation or world sharttering tech. Techno heads will buy it up as they do with anything new, whether it's useful; or not! That most likley is not what Apple fanatics want to hear but it is what it is.
    Yeah. It will have the success of iPod HiFi boombox or the G4 Cube.
    williamlondon
  • Reply 26 of 52
    mac_dogmac_dog Posts: 1,072member
    JP234 said:
    I don't think the majority of the public care about AR/VR. 

    Here's some predictions that echo yours:
    And here’s another sometime around 1995, when working on the brand campaign for Kodak’s first foray into the digital camera market.

    Kodak board of directors: “We’re not going to invest in digital cameras bcoz it’s not going to go anywhere.”
    watto_cobrawilliamlondonJP234
  • Reply 27 of 52
    mejsric said:
    I don't think the majority of the public care about AR/VR. It will just be another product some people will buy. Its no great inovation or world sharttering tech. Techno heads will buy it up as they do with anything new, whether it's useful; or not! That most likley is not what Apple fanatics want to hear but it is what it is.

    Says everyone until they see the game changer for themselves. Everyone else has tried and failed, so you think Apple is doomed to fail too. The majority of the public don't care about AR/VR because they haven't seen anything so far that would draw them to it.  But that is what Apple does best. Not necessarily innovation or world shattering tech, but taking what currently exists and ironing out the kinks and distilling it until they can provide an EXPERIENCE that is simply irresistible. Once that happens, public opinion will shift. It won't happen overnight. But give it a few years and this could be the start of something huge. Then everyone will follow and say it was inevitable.

    Really no-one cares what Apple is doing other than the die hard fan boys. Apple is not going to change the world with this I asure you. It will be the same thing as the Apple Watch. The hype around that just before launch was the same. Sure people buy it but it was not a game changer and is just another product out there. The head set will be the same. To be frank with you who the hell wants to live their lives in a dream world wearing a head set doing a Stevie Wonder impression! No disrespect to Stevie. Some poeple will buy this others will not and the world will move on. Apple is good but lets face another fact Apple Silicon did not kill intel or AMD its just another chip on the market that sould be obvious by now.
    why not just wait until it released. coz it will be funny when your favorite brand starts copying after apple release it.

    It will find niche markets and sell to some degree. The Apple Headset will not be another iPod, iPhone or iPad. I think that is wishful thinking. As for others copying, let's face it Apple is just jumping on the bandwagon and is just another company giving its take on what is tech that appeared in the 90s. The whole headset thing is marginally interesting at best as I said before, it will sell to some degree, but it's no iPhone!

    edited May 2023 muthuk_vanalingamwilliamlondon
  • Reply 28 of 52
    I don't think the majority of the public care about AR/VR. It will just be another product some people will buy. Its no great inovation or world sharttering tech. Techno heads will buy it up as they do with anything new, whether it's useful; or not! That most likley is not what Apple fanatics want to hear but it is what it is.

    Says everyone until they see the game changer for themselves. Everyone else has tried and failed, so you think Apple is doomed to fail too. The majority of the public don't care about AR/VR because they haven't seen anything so far that would draw them to it.  But that is what Apple does best. Not necessarily innovation or world shattering tech, but taking what currently exists and ironing out the kinks and distilling it until they can provide an EXPERIENCE that is simply irresistible. Once that happens, public opinion will shift. It won't happen overnight. But give it a few years and this could be the start of something huge. Then everyone will follow and say it was inevitable.

    Really no-one cares what Apple is doing other than the die hard fan boys. Apple is not going to change the world with this I asure you. It will be the same thing as the Apple Watch. The hype around that just before launch was the same. Sure people buy it but it was not a game changer and is just another product out there. The head set will be the same. To be frank with you who the hell wants to live their lives in a dream world wearing a head set doing a Stevie Wonder impression! No disrespect to Stevie. Some poeple will buy this others will not and the world will move on. Apple is good but lets face another fact Apple Silicon did not kill intel or AMD its just another chip on the market that sould be obvious by now.
    I suppose this very much depends upon one’s definition of ‘change the world.’  My smartphone means I don’t own a handheld calculator, an alarm clock radio, a dedicated camera or video recorder, a separate GPS navigation system (even in my car; my Mazda doesn’t provide a dedicated navigation unit, just a general use screen and CarPlay/android auto integration).  I don’t own a dedicated stereo, just a smart speaker driven by my smartphone, I don’t own paper notepads, an organizer, any calendars, photo albums, I don’t go sit at my computer to send or read emails, and on the list goes.  Certainly the smartphone has changed much in the way we interact with technology, obsoleting many products that no longer get produced, used for a while and then sent off to landfills.  A smartphone is a small, yes dense, but small product compare to all the materials that represent the many products it replaces.  It’s helped more than hurt the environment versus producing all that it replaces.  By a large margin I would assert.  That’s world changing by my definition.  
    I agree with what you are saying. However, my point in this case with the Apple headset is that it is no smartphone/iPhone. Its usefulness will be limited to niche markets where it is useful. I think it's wishful thinking that you are going to see everyone wandering around with this on. In some ways, tech is not very interesting any more. It's part of the wallpaper of life and as such people at large just don't care. I think the fact that you do not see the mass gatherings of people at Apple stores any more when they launch a product backs that up. My point in my posts here is that there is a lot of hype around something thats just not that interesting or useful for everyday life. I am sure the Apple propaganda machine will kick in and try to make it seem otherwise.

    williamlondon
  • Reply 29 of 52
    JP234 said:
    rundhvid said:
    Bla, bla, bla…

    will it do P.O.R.N ?

     😱👀
    F&*K yes.

    LOL someone will most likely make it do it!

    williamlondonJP234
  • Reply 30 of 52
    ddawson100ddawson100 Posts: 519member
    Agreed with all this. No one wants AR/VR like no one wants a car, a phone, or any device, but we're all clamoring for ways to connect with others, extend our brains, experience novel things, even be entertained, and distracted. It's kinda beside the point to talk about whether these products have improved or destroyed our lives or society. Technology is just the brain looking for more body. (Also, this last sentence, I'm not sure who said it first. I don't think it was me. Haha. I thought it was William S. Burroughs but I can't find any attribution for that right now.)
    edited May 2023 watto_cobrawilliamlondon
  • Reply 31 of 52
    Agreed with all this. No one wants AR/VR like no one wants a car, a phone, or any device, but we're all clamoring for ways to connect with others, extend our brains, experience novel things, even be entertained, and distracted. It's kinda beside the point to talk about whether these products have improved or destroyed our lives or society. Technology is just the brain looking for more body. (Also, this last sentence, I'm not sure who said it first. I don't think it was me. Haha. I thought it was William S. Burroughs but I can't find any attribution for that right now.)
    I think you are missing the point here. Some people will buy into this. However, most will not in fact most will not care that's the point. AR/VR is marginally interesting to most people at best. Yes, there are people out there who are addicted to tech and need the next fix to so call expand their experience! Why do you assume you need technology for the brain to find more body? Seems to me a narrow view of what humans are capable of to limit everything to technology!


    williamlondon
  • Reply 32 of 52
    1348513485 Posts: 357member
    Really no-one cares what Apple is doing other than the die hard fan boys. Apple is not going to change the world with this I asure you. It will be the same thing as the Apple Watch. The hype around that just before launch was the same. Sure people buy it but it was not a game changer and is just another product out there. The head set will be the same. To be frank with you who the hell wants to live their lives in a dream world wearing a head set doing a Stevie Wonder impression! No disrespect to Stevie. Some poeple will buy this others will not and the world will move on. Apple is good but lets face another fact Apple Silicon did not kill intel or AMD its just another chip on the market that sould be obvious by now.
    Apple Watch is just another product out there....a $12.6 billion dollar product in 2020 gaining an estimated 60% of the profit in that market. I'm sure you could make a billion dollar product as well, it's so easy everybody does it.

    Apple silicon is for Apple products only. It doesn't compete in the marketplace with Intel or AMD, so it can't very well kill them.
    watto_cobrawilliamlondondewme
  • Reply 33 of 52
    AppleZuluAppleZulu Posts: 2,073member
    I don't think the majority of the public care about AR/VR. It will just be another product some people will buy. Its no great inovation or world sharttering tech. Techno heads will buy it up as they do with anything new, whether it's useful; or not! That most likley is not what Apple fanatics want to hear but it is what it is.

    Says everyone until they see the game changer for themselves. Everyone else has tried and failed, so you think Apple is doomed to fail too. The majority of the public don't care about AR/VR because they haven't seen anything so far that would draw them to it.  But that is what Apple does best. Not necessarily innovation or world shattering tech, but taking what currently exists and ironing out the kinks and distilling it until they can provide an EXPERIENCE that is simply irresistible. Once that happens, public opinion will shift. It won't happen overnight. But give it a few years and this could be the start of something huge. Then everyone will follow and say it was inevitable.

    Really no-one cares what Apple is doing other than the die hard fan boys. Apple is not going to change the world with this I asure you. It will be the same thing as the Apple Watch. The hype around that just before launch was the same. Sure people buy it but it was not a game changer and is just another product out there. The head set will be the same. To be frank with you who the hell wants to live their lives in a dream world wearing a head set doing a Stevie Wonder impression! No disrespect to Stevie. Some poeple will buy this others will not and the world will move on. Apple is good but lets face another fact Apple Silicon did not kill intel or AMD its just another chip on the market that sould be obvious by now.
    I suppose this very much depends upon one’s definition of ‘change the world.’  My smartphone means I don’t own a handheld calculator, an alarm clock radio, a dedicated camera or video recorder, a separate GPS navigation system (even in my car; my Mazda doesn’t provide a dedicated navigation unit, just a general use screen and CarPlay/android auto integration).  I don’t own a dedicated stereo, just a smart speaker driven by my smartphone, I don’t own paper notepads, an organizer, any calendars, photo albums, I don’t go sit at my computer to send or read emails, and on the list goes.  Certainly the smartphone has changed much in the way we interact with technology, obsoleting many products that no longer get produced, used for a while and then sent off to landfills.  A smartphone is a small, yes dense, but small product compare to all the materials that represent the many products it replaces.  It’s helped more than hurt the environment versus producing all that it replaces.  By a large margin I would assert.  That’s world changing by my definition.  
    I agree with what you are saying. However, my point in this case with the Apple headset is that it is no smartphone/iPhone. Its usefulness will be limited to niche markets where it is useful. I think it's wishful thinking that you are going to see everyone wandering around with this on. In some ways, tech is not very interesting any more. It's part of the wallpaper of life and as such people at large just don't care. I think the fact that you do not see the mass gatherings of people at Apple stores any more when they launch a product backs that up. My point in my posts here is that there is a lot of hype around something thats just not that interesting or useful for everyday life. I am sure the Apple propaganda machine will kick in and try to make it seem otherwise.

    Ah, but the point really is that you don't know what it is, which means you quite literally don't know what you're talking about.



    In 2006, David Pogue (and I really like David Pogue) wrote in the New York Times that Apple would not be making a smartphone. The picture above is what accompanied his column, and his reasoning for there being no Apple phone in the works was that the phone companies that own the cellular networks dictate to manufacturers what their devices can and can't do, and, Pogue reasoned, Apple would not cede so much (or any) control over its devices to other companies. Pogue was wrong about it. He was wrong because he didn't know what it was. Look at that picture. It's a ridiculous amalgamation of Palm/Blackberry and Apple's iPod. Peanut gallery speculators lack insight into what Apple's designers and engineers are figuring out behind closed doors. So they produce unimaginative fan fiction and then comment on it, like it's the real thing. For the longest time, Apple Insider would keep running a truly hideous image of a (poorly) imagined Apple Car every time they ran a rumor about the subject. It looks like something drawn up by someone about to fail out of design school in 1983. With that picture in mind, it's really easy to make negative pronouncements about an Apple Car. That thing is hideous. Now, we get the image with the article above when they comment on a rumored AR/VR device. There might as well be a picture of the scarecrow from the Wizard of Oz, because that's all these things are: straw men. Things made up by the reactionary so they have something to react to. 



    To be fair to David Pogue, he was right that Apple wasn't going to let phone companies dictate what the iPhone would be. He was wrong about the rest, because he lacked the imagination to consider that Apple would make a deal with AT&T (then Cingular Wireless) allowing them exclusive access to the new iPhone in trade for them ceding all control of said device to Apple. With that deal, by the time other phone companies were allowed access to the iPhone, the precedent had been set, and now they all gladly play by Apple's rules, rather than the other way around. 

    So now the same is true about any pending Apple AR/VR device. You don't know what it is. Neither do I, though with past as prologue, I'd be willing to bet that it's not some hodgepodge of past headset devices with an Apple logo on it. I don't know what it is, but I do know it will be something different, if Apple's going to bother releasing it.


    watto_cobrawilliamlondondewmeurahara
  • Reply 34 of 52
    chutzpahchutzpah Posts: 392member

    Really no-one cares what Apple is doing other than the die hard fan boys.
    6 posts in this thread in the space of 24 hours.  For someone who doesn't care you sure seem to care a lot that everyone hears about how little you care.
    watto_cobrawilliamlondonurahara
  • Reply 35 of 52
    AppleZulu said:
    I don't think the majority of the public care about AR/VR. It will just be another product some people will buy. Its no great inovation or world sharttering tech. Techno heads will buy it up as they do with anything new, whether it's useful; or not! That most likley is not what Apple fanatics want to hear but it is what it is.

    Says everyone until they see the game changer for themselves. Everyone else has tried and failed, so you think Apple is doomed to fail too. The majority of the public don't care about AR/VR because they haven't seen anything so far that would draw them to it.  But that is what Apple does best. Not necessarily innovation or world shattering tech, but taking what currently exists and ironing out the kinks and distilling it until they can provide an EXPERIENCE that is simply irresistible. Once that happens, public opinion will shift. It won't happen overnight. But give it a few years and this could be the start of something huge. Then everyone will follow and say it was inevitable.

    Really no-one cares what Apple is doing other than the die hard fan boys. Apple is not going to change the world with this I asure you. It will be the same thing as the Apple Watch. The hype around that just before launch was the same. Sure people buy it but it was not a game changer and is just another product out there. The head set will be the same. To be frank with you who the hell wants to live their lives in a dream world wearing a head set doing a Stevie Wonder impression! No disrespect to Stevie. Some poeple will buy this others will not and the world will move on. Apple is good but lets face another fact Apple Silicon did not kill intel or AMD its just another chip on the market that sould be obvious by now.
    I suppose this very much depends upon one’s definition of ‘change the world.’  My smartphone means I don’t own a handheld calculator, an alarm clock radio, a dedicated camera or video recorder, a separate GPS navigation system (even in my car; my Mazda doesn’t provide a dedicated navigation unit, just a general use screen and CarPlay/android auto integration).  I don’t own a dedicated stereo, just a smart speaker driven by my smartphone, I don’t own paper notepads, an organizer, any calendars, photo albums, I don’t go sit at my computer to send or read emails, and on the list goes.  Certainly the smartphone has changed much in the way we interact with technology, obsoleting many products that no longer get produced, used for a while and then sent off to landfills.  A smartphone is a small, yes dense, but small product compare to all the materials that represent the many products it replaces.  It’s helped more than hurt the environment versus producing all that it replaces.  By a large margin I would assert.  That’s world changing by my definition.  
    I agree with what you are saying. However, my point in this case with the Apple headset is that it is no smartphone/iPhone. Its usefulness will be limited to niche markets where it is useful. I think it's wishful thinking that you are going to see everyone wandering around with this on. In some ways, tech is not very interesting any more. It's part of the wallpaper of life and as such people at large just don't care. I think the fact that you do not see the mass gatherings of people at Apple stores any more when they launch a product backs that up. My point in my posts here is that there is a lot of hype around something thats just not that interesting or useful for everyday life. I am sure the Apple propaganda machine will kick in and try to make it seem otherwise.

    Ah, but the point really is that you don't know what it is, which means you quite literally don't know what you're talking about.



    In 2006, David Pogue (and I really like David Pogue) wrote in the New York Times that Apple would not be making a smartphone. The picture above is what accompanied his column, and his reasoning for there being no Apple phone in the works was that the phone companies that own the cellular networks dictate to manufacturers what their devices can and can't do, and, Pogue reasoned, Apple would not cede so much (or any) control over its devices to other companies. Pogue was wrong about it. He was wrong because he didn't know what it was. Look at that picture. It's a ridiculous amalgamation of Palm/Blackberry and Apple's iPod. Peanut gallery speculators lack insight into what Apple's designers and engineers are figuring out behind closed doors. So they produce unimaginative fan fiction and then comment on it, like it's the real thing. For the longest time, Apple Insider would keep running a truly hideous image of a (poorly) imagined Apple Car every time they ran a rumor about the subject. It looks like something drawn up by someone about to fail out of design school in 1983. With that picture in mind, it's really easy to make negative pronouncements about an Apple Car. That thing is hideous. Now, we get the image with the article above when they comment on a rumored AR/VR device. There might as well be a picture of the scarecrow from the Wizard of Oz, because that's all these things are: straw men. Things made up by the reactionary so they have something to react to. 



    To be fair to David Pogue, he was right that Apple wasn't going to let phone companies dictate what the iPhone would be. He was wrong about the rest, because he lacked the imagination to consider that Apple would make a deal with AT&T (then Cingular Wireless) allowing them exclusive access to the new iPhone in trade for them ceding all control of said device to Apple. With that deal, by the time other phone companies were allowed access to the iPhone, the precedent had been set, and now they all gladly play by Apple's rules, rather than the other way around. 

    So now the same is true about any pending Apple AR/VR device. You don't know what it is. Neither do I, though with past as prologue, I'd be willing to bet that it's not some hodgepodge of past headset devices with an Apple logo on it. I don't know what it is, but I do know it will be something different, if Apple's going to bother releasing it.


    Let me enlighten you alittle. The world has changed since the iPod, iPhone and iPad, so qutoing what happened in the past is irrelavent today. Apple is a high price item company, and with what is starting to playout in the world now, this is not to Apple favour. People have far more imprtant things to deal with than care what Apple is doing. You assume that the next few years will playout the way they have in the past. Your in for a nice suprise there. Heres the thing. An AR/VR device kind says what it is in the name, so if you have absolutly no idea or what kind of thing the device will do, I find that quit amazing. All we are waiting to see is Apples take on it. Remember, Apple did not invent the portable media player nor the tablet, or even the smartphone. They came alone with thier take on it and were very successful. The problem with the head set is its relavence and usefulness in every day life for people. The iPod, iPhone and iPad were no brainers for people, and they sold very well indeed. This divece will, as I have said not be another iPod, iPhone or iPad in sales or shear cultural success.

    edited May 2023 watto_cobrawilliamlondon
  • Reply 36 of 52
    hexclockhexclock Posts: 1,273member
    JP234 said:
    I don't think the majority of the public care about AR/VR. It will just be another product some people will buy. Its no great inovation or world sharttering tech. Techno heads will buy it up as they do with anything new, whether it's useful; or not! That most likley is not what Apple fanatics want to hear but it is what it is.

    Here's some predictions that echo yours:
    1876: “This ‘telephone’ has too many shortcomings to be seriously considered as a means of communication.” — William Orton, President of Western Union.
    1932: “There is not the slightest indication that nuclear energy will ever be obtainable. It would mean that the atom would have to be shattered at will.” — Albert Einstein
    1943: "I think there is a world market for maybe five computers." — Thomas Watson, president of IBM,
    1946: “Television won’t be able to hold on to any market it captures after the first six months. People will soon get tired of staring at a plywood box every night.” — Darryl Zanuck, film producer, co-founder of 20th Century Fox
    1961: “There is practically no chance communications space satellites will be used to provide better telephone, telegraph, television or radio service inside the United States.” — T.A.M. Craven, Federal Communications Commission (FCC) commissioner
    1977: “There is no reason for any individual to have a computer in his home.” — Ken Olsen, founder of Digital Equipment Corp
    1995: “I predict the Internet will soon go spectacularly supernova and in 1996 catastrophically collapse.” — Robert Metcalfe, founder of 3Com, inventor of Ethernet

    And finally:
    2006: “Everyone’s always asking me when Apple will come out with a cell phone. My answer is, ‘Probably never.'” – David Pogue, Apple journalist, and author of "iPhone: The Missing Manual"

    I beg to differ with you. You won't get one, and I won't either. Until we do. I mean neither of us have iPhones, iPads, Macs, AirPods, Apple TVs and Apple Watches, do we?
    There will always be naysayers for every new product of this (potential) impact. 
    And don’t forget when Bill Gates said that computers will never need more than 64k of RAM. 
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 37 of 52
    MarvinMarvin Posts: 15,381moderator
    michelb76 said:
    Obviously this device is not targeted at the general public. I think Apple just needs to get this out to get their feet wet.
    Apple has had a 6 year head start on the software side with ARKit:

    https://developer.apple.com/augmented-reality/arkit/

    ARKit will be way more useful on a headset than a handheld device.

    One of the most mainstream use cases will be fitness. The following type of workout requires a headset:



    Apple already has millions of Fitness+ subscribers. They can sell 10 million units just for aerobics and dance workouts. 3rd party VR headsets aren't good for this as they are bulky, very technical to setup and for the same reason dedicated 3rd party hardware always falls short, which is the people who make the hardware don't make the rest of the ecosystem - OS, software, SDK, peripherals. Apple's end-to-end ecosystem allows seamless setup. During a fitness workout, it will be able to sync with the watch and iPhone.

    Another mainstream use case will be for large displays (4:26):







    Apple's ecosystem works best for this too and content/control will be able to seamlessly transfer across multiple devices.

    Augmented video content will be worth using these for.



    This likely won't be a product people interact with all day, it will be a product for specific experiences but some of those experiences will be really impressive.
    williamlondon
  • Reply 38 of 52
    nubusnubus Posts: 461member
    AppleZulu said:
    nubus said:
    michelb76 said:
    Obviously this device is not targeted at the general public. I think Apple just needs to get this out to get their feet wet. 
    Then why use the Apple brand for this? They have Beats, Claris, Shazam, and Apple could invent a brand for the next "owned by Apple but not Apple" but selling to defense industry 

    And to those saying "every prediction has been wrong"... iTunes Ping, Segway, Google+, Google Wave, Newton, Apple Pippin,... Products do fail.
    Newton and Pippin were mistakes made during Steve Jobs’ exile from Apple. Ping was a feature, not a product, and the rest are not Apple. Nothing is a guaranteed certainty, but betting against Apple has not been a good investment strategy for the last quarter century. 
    Being a great investment doesn't indicate great products. The market cap of MS has recently grown faster than that of Apple. So, will VR really sell? The last time industry tried glasses gave us 3D TV. It lasted from 2008 to 2013. We're yet to see a product where users like to disconnect from their surroundings.
    williamlondon
  • Reply 39 of 52
    rezwitsrezwits Posts: 889member
    Seven words:  Camera+Accelerometer Calibration Madness to the Max!
  • Reply 40 of 52
    uraharaurahara Posts: 733member
    I feel sorry for the engineers that actually do the work with all these bosses.
    Why do you feel sorry for people working on something they might be excited about?
    And those bosses: Are they bad leaders? How so? Source?
    williamlondon
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