Lawmakers urged to block TSMC worker visas over Arizona plant construction

Posted:
in General Discussion

A campaign is being waged against Apple chip partner TSMC over its first plant in the United States, demanding that TSMC is prevented from bringing over 500 workers from Taiwan.

TSMC
TSMC



TSMC's Arizona plant has been delayed until 2025, under claims that it couldn't find enough skilled workers to open the facility on time. To catch up TSMC said in June that it would bring employees from Taiwan to the US to work on the facility.

However, a campaign doesn't want the workers to enter the country to work at the plant at all, and that TSMC should use US workers instead.

The campaign, Stand with American Workers, urges for residents to contact local congressional leaders to block TSMC foreign worker visas, and to instead force the chip maker into using workers from Arizona itself.

Citing assurances from politicians that work at the TSMC facility will predominantly be performed by Arizona workers, including later phases that are supported by CHIPs Act funding, the campaign believes TSMC's worker import announcement demonstrates "a complete disregard for American labor and the principles of the CHIPs Act.

The Stand with American Workers campaign and website is paid for by Revitalize Arizona, with major funding from Residents for Accountability and Arizona Pipe Trades 469.

Arizona Pipe Trades 469 is also making a separate call to contact lawmakers, again to urge the blocking of EB-2 worker visas. In a form letter the petition offers to send to representatives on people's behalf, there are claims that TSMC is "placing profit above worker safety" and that it is "deliberately misrepresenting the quality, skills, and experience of Arizona's workforce."

While the campaigns concern the construction of the facilities, TSMC has said that the influx of workers are not replacing any of the current 12,000 employees that will work at the plant, nor that it will change US recruitment plans.

A report from February claimed TSMC employees were unhappy with plans to use American workers for construction, with claims that US engineers questioned approaches, while Taiwanese engineers were allegedly accustomed to working long hours and on weekends.

Read on AppleInsider

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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 25
    hmurchisonhmurchison Posts: 12,425member
    Hiring Americans is part of the deal otherwise ...we don't need you here. 
    williamlondonkillroyAZDawn
  • Reply 2 of 25
    goofy1958goofy1958 Posts: 165member
    Hiring Americans is part of the deal otherwise ...we don't need you here. 
    How short-sighted of you. They are only bringing help from Taiwan on a temporary basis until they can get all of the positions filled by Americans.
    williamlondonkillroyivotedmcpnetroxbaconstangiOS_Guy80NotSoMuchFileMakerFellerwatto_cobra
  • Reply 3 of 25
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 24,214member
    goofy1958 said:
    Hiring Americans is part of the deal otherwise ...we don't need you here. 
    How short-sighted of you. They are only bringing help from Taiwan on a temporary basis until they can get all of the positions filled by Americans.
    I agree on the union being short-sighted. 
    killroybaconstangiOS_Guy80
  • Reply 4 of 25
    danoxdanox Posts: 2,875member
    In order to get the facility up and running experience personnel from Taiwan, has to be brought in to make the handover, as smooth as possible. 

    The only real F up in the process is the long-term lack of water in Arizona.
    williamlondonkillroybaconstangiOS_Guy80NotSoMuchwatto_cobra
  • Reply 5 of 25
    Does anybody here realize the long term benefits to us in the USA.  We gave away all that technology in the past and now we need it back.  If they screw this up the USA now we might never catch up.  We don't have the trained engineers like we use to...where did they go...they retired or died for the most part.  We don't educate enough engineers in the USA to meet our current need in almost all fields.  Most of the ones we have come from other countries now.  This is sad.  Now in the middle of all this we want to mess up this opportunity?  Fine throw away/delay this opportunity which will set the USA back further.  This whining defies logic!  We need to start building or own chips in the USA in mass now not 10 years from now.  If war breaks out we could end up totally screwed!

    killroygatorguybaconstangFileMakerFellerwatto_cobra
  • Reply 6 of 25
    Hiring Americans is part of the deal otherwise ...we don't need you here. 
    What a bigoted position, and very short-sighted, might as well shoot ourselves in the foot with those big 'Murkin guns.

    Foreign workers can help get this thing up and running faster, so it has a better chance of success and can scale more quickly so more 'Murkins can work there.

    But, hey, let's put up a wall and protect an empty building ourselves because "we don't need you here".
    killroylorca2770danoxbaconstangget seriouswatto_cobra
  • Reply 7 of 25
    goofy1958 said:
    Hiring Americans is part of the deal otherwise ...we don't need you here. 
    How short-sighted of you. They are only bringing help from Taiwan on a temporary basis until they can get all of the positions filled by Americans.

    If that really is the case, then prohibiting them really is shortsighted.  However, given that the first rule of corporate operations is to lie to everyone except the government and shareholders, and to withhold as much as possible even from them, I'm somewhat skeptical.  If the interested parties, e.g. unions, can get them to actually agree to make these 500 people trainers, that would be good.
    killroywatto_cobra
  • Reply 8 of 25
    killroykillroy Posts: 276member
    I'm surprised that TSMC can do without 500 people from home.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 9 of 25
    looplessloopless Posts: 330member
    Most people have no idea what a severe shortage of skilled AND unskilled workers exists  in the USA and why immigration benefits everyone. The racist, anti-immigration sentiment that extends even to PhD level H1-B workers is frankly idiotic , and not born out by the facts, which  show bringing in  highly educated and motivated people to work here benefits everyone.  The higher education system here does not produce enough STEM graduates for industry, so "taking jobs from Americans" is a lie.
    rob53lorca2770killroywilliamlondonFileMakerFellerwatto_cobra
  • Reply 10 of 25
    dewmedewme Posts: 5,376member
    Does anybody here realize the long term benefits to us in the USA.  We gave away all that technology in the past and now we need it back.  If they screw this up the USA now we might never catch up.  We don't have the trained engineers like we use to...where did they go...they retired or died for the most part.  We don't educate enough engineers in the USA to meet our current need in almost all fields.  Most of the ones we have come from other countries now.  This is sad.  Now in the middle of all this we want to mess up this opportunity?  Fine throw away/delay this opportunity which will set the USA back further.  This whining defies logic!  We need to start building or own chips in the USA in mass now not 10 years from now.  If war breaks out we could end up totally screwed!

    I completely understand your sentiment. If there is one thing that is common in the bullshitosphere of American politics it is a lack of long term planning and strategic thinking. The US really should try to play nice/smart when it comes to strategic relationships with Taiwan, more so while the US still has the ability influence outcomes in Taiwan. Allowing for some level of concessions to happen in the short term is acceptable as long as the US is still making progress towards its longer term strategic objectives. We don't really know whether the US is progressing too slowly or whether it will be too little too late. The fact that there is any progress at all is rather unusual given the normal inertia and tendency for the US to do nothing at all and just argue about it amongst ourselves as time slips away and the number of available options evaporate.

    Things like tariffs, blocking temporary work visas, and limiting foreign students are clear signs of failure and admitting defeat. Rather than making the required investments and getting all of your ducks in a row you're now punishing a competitor who actually has a plan in place that's proven to be successful. Of course there are exceptions if your competitors are using unfair, illegal, or immoral means to achieve their advantage. I don't believe this is the case with US semiconductor industry. But if China makes a move on Taiwan, all bets are off. I doubt that it will come to that because it would end up being a murder-suicide for the Chinese economy and China's place in the world. 

    I'd also say that the US semiconductor industry is probably not as bad off as some people think. There are some very strategically important US-based companies still deeply engaged in the most critical aspects of the semiconductor industry even if not at the scale and velocity that Taiwan is able to achieve and manufacturing capacity that China can attain. The consumer sector would clearly suffer if a primary source of semiconductors is removed from play. The available organic resources and capacity would have to be redirected to those things that impact the basic needs and infrastructure needed to keep the US economy going long enough while bringing sufficient capacity online. No other country has ever demonstrated the resiliency and ability to scale up production of just about anything needed to solve the world's biggest problems as has the US.

    I'm in no hurry to see the US being put in or putting itself in a position of having to prove itself once again. Nobody should have to suffer the inevitable consequences. To do this the US needs to fix the problems that are causing it to rot from the inside out and prepare itself to compete economically against the best of the best and not have to resort to waiting for a global crisis to finally decide to get its act together.
  • Reply 11 of 25
    Hiring Americans is part of the deal otherwise ...we don't need you here. 
    The people doing the actual work and know how it should be done should be allowed to do the work without outsiders meddling in.
    iOS_Guy80FileMakerFellerAZDawn
  • Reply 12 of 25
    waveparticlewaveparticle Posts: 1,497member
    goofy1958 said:
    Hiring Americans is part of the deal otherwise ...we don't need you here. 
    How short-sighted of you. They are only bringing help from Taiwan on a temporary basis until they can get all of the positions filled by Americans.
    They will get Green Cards which allow them to become permanent resident. 
    iOS_Guy80williamlondon
  • Reply 13 of 25
    ToortogToortog Posts: 56member
    Seems like they've had trouble with USA workers from the beginning.   It's a totally different work ethic and USA workers just aren't used to and don't want to adapt to.   I say let the workers in get the facility going and making money  then they can focus getting USA workers integrated into the facility. I've read a lot of the Taiwan workers and management already brought over want to return to Taiwan.  So even more reason let TSMC bring over who they need to, to get the facility up and running at production level.  Then many of the Taiwanese worker will return home and USA worker can start filling those positions and gradually become a USA worker facility.   Killing the project now hurts everyone AZ in lost tax revenues,  loss of future jobs in AZ.    
  • Reply 14 of 25
    goofy1958goofy1958 Posts: 165member
    goofy1958 said:
    Hiring Americans is part of the deal otherwise ...we don't need you here. 
    How short-sighted of you. They are only bringing help from Taiwan on a temporary basis until they can get all of the positions filled by Americans.

    If that really is the case, then prohibiting them really is shortsighted.  However, given that the first rule of corporate operations is to lie to everyone except the government and shareholders, and to withhold as much as possible even from them, I'm somewhat skeptical.  If the interested parties, e.g. unions, can get them to actually agree to make these 500 people trainers, that would be good.
    Wow! Tin foil hat much? So you really think that Apple would let TSMC get away with lying to them??? Since the plant is supposed to have 12,000 workers when fully staffed, what difference would 500 trained workers from Taiwan make to get the plant up and running sooner? And yes, I fully believe that they would end up training a lot of people.

    williamlondon
  • Reply 15 of 25
    rob53rob53 Posts: 3,253member
    I hope most of you realize that engineering is not the top college major in the US. From Niche, the top of the list is Business and Management (we have way too many of these), followed by Nursing (half of Business), Psychology and Biology before coming to Engineering. Computer Science is at 11, Information Technology is at 27 and Trades and Personal Services are at 23. When you look at things like Building Construction, almost nobody gets a college degree in that field. The trades are usually covered by apprentice jobs (OTJ training). TSMC is bringing over experts in the field along with trained personnel who know how to run the very technical equipment, something that isn't taught anywhere in the US. For all you people who think the US is the only country with highly trained personnel, you need to open your eyes. Business degrees along with legal degrees are supposed to be high paying, which is what greedy Americans want to have. The problem is there aren't enough high paying jobs in these fields to pay college tuition so they end up getting low-end jobs or changing fields.
    badmonkFileMakerFeller
  • Reply 16 of 25
    ApplePoorApplePoor Posts: 286member
    It is a bitch when the right's dumb down USA education system from the Reagan era suddenly bites them in the backside. China is turning out more than ten times the engineers than the IUSA. There is a completely different work ethic in the oriental culture that is sadly missing in the USA.
    iOS_Guy80williamlondonget seriousNotSoMuch
  • Reply 17 of 25
    danoxdanox Posts: 2,875member
    killroy said:
    I'm surprised that TSMC can do without 500 people from home.

    One of the reasons, China, South Korea, Japan, and Germany have done well in recent years is the willingness to mobilize, large numbers of engineers and construction people anywhere in the world if necessary, particularly outside of the energy (oil) sector. In order for TSMC to have a smooth transfer they have to send their qualified people over here to make that happen.
    FileMakerFeller
  • Reply 18 of 25
    danoxdanox Posts: 2,875member
    ApplePoor said:
    It is a bitch when the right's dumb down USA education system from the Reagan era suddenly bites them in the backside. China is turning out more than ten times the engineers than the IUSA. There is a completely different work ethic in the oriental culture that is sadly missing in the USA.
    All of the English speaking countries UK, United States, Canada, Australia, and New Zealand these days, have an adversarial relationship between management and the workforce it’s a cultural thing goes hand-in-hand with the lack of housing affordability and not wanting to make things (manufacture) within the country in recent times.
    edited August 2023
  • Reply 19 of 25
    waveparticlewaveparticle Posts: 1,497member
    ApplePoor said:
    It is a bitch when the right's dumb down USA education system from the Reagan era suddenly bites them in the backside. China is turning out more than ten times the engineers than the IUSA. There is a completely different work ethic in the oriental culture that is sadly missing in the USA.
    This news is not about China. Taiwan has different education system from mainland China. In the last twenty years and more it setup so many universities that a high school graduate can enter college with only six points in the entrance exam. In Taiwan to be able to work for TSMC is a prestige job admired by many. 
    killroyFileMakerFeller
  • Reply 20 of 25
    jfabula1jfabula1 Posts: 138member
    goofy1958 said:
    Hiring Americans is part of the deal otherwise ...we don't need you here. 
    How short-sighted of you. They are only bringing help from Taiwan on a temporary basis until they can get all of the positions filled by Americans.
    Exactly what Im thinking…..come on we lack setup technical workers. We are falling well behind because of these mindsets. 
    williamlondon
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