And like with the iPhone and iPad, Apple Vision Pro won't be the best tool for everything, and everybody. I still feel reading and surfing are better on iPhone, iPad, and Mac, for instance, and other apps will require a more conventional interface.
Were you able to place say Safari windows closer to and farther away from you? How close, how far? Change text sizes? The UI guidelines seem to say that windows will get smaller the closer to you and get bigger the farther away from you, and similarly text will get smaller the closer it is and bigger the farther it is.
Did you try direct touch on the virtual displays? How many windows were opened and displayed simultaneously?
There will need to be more gestures. For scrolling long lists, they will have to do something other then a pinch-slide. It will have to be a pinch-rotate. And or add scroll bars that can be selected.
They really need to have Terminal.app in it, assuming the text is clear.
And yes, people will have to get used to it and build up muscles for it. You're putting a 1 lb weight in front of your face with a light seal mashed up into your orbitals and big strap behind your head. So, the neck muscles have to be built up. Have to get used to the compression on your face and the back of your head.
The eyeballs muscles also have to be trained. It's one part always focusing at the same distance and another part tricking the brain to percieve objects that further or closer even though they are not.
Most of what you're asking about doesn't work yet.
There is no sign of Terminal on the device. I don't think there's going to be, for the same reason there isn't on an iPad.
Did you get any sense of how the camera performs in dim light or at night? I have retinitis pigmentosa and can't see at night or in dim light, but i have always been able to see using the iPhone screen. How is the vision pro?
and were you able to walk around while wearing it?
No idea on the camera. Vision Pro doesn't get as bright as an iPhone screen when HDR is invoked for media, but I don't think you're going to have a problem using it.
The test case with the machinery as discussed in the piece required walking around.
And like with the iPhone and iPad, Apple Vision Pro won't be the best tool for everything, and everybody. I still feel reading and surfing are better on iPhone, iPad, and Mac, for instance, and other apps will require a more conventional interface.
Were you able to place say Safari windows closer to and farther away from you? How close, how far? Change text sizes? The UI guidelines seem to say that windows will get smaller the closer to you and get bigger the farther away from you, and similarly text will get smaller the closer it is and bigger the farther it is.
Did you try direct touch on the virtual displays? How many windows were opened and displayed simultaneously?
There will need to be more gestures. For scrolling long lists, they will have to do something other then a pinch-slide. It will have to be a pinch-rotate. And or add scroll bars that can be selected.
They really need to have Terminal.app in it, assuming the text is clear.
And yes, people will have to get used to it and build up muscles for it. You're putting a 1 lb weight in front of your face with a light seal mashed up into your orbitals and big strap behind your head. So, the neck muscles have to be built up. Have to get used to the compression on your face and the back of your head.
The eyeballs muscles also have to be trained. It's one part always focusing at the same distance and another part tricking the brain to percieve objects that further or closer even though they are not.
Most of what you're asking about doesn't work yet.
There is no sign of Terminal on the device. I don't think there's going to be, for the same reason there isn't on an iPad.
I'm eternally hopeful, for iPadOS, visionOS and even iOS. Just make a secure VM, whatever way it needs to be sandboxed. Apple is limiting what users can do with their iPad, iPhone and Vision devices.
And like with the iPhone and iPad, Apple Vision Pro won't be the best tool for everything, and everybody. I still feel reading and surfing are better on iPhone, iPad, and Mac, for instance, and other apps will require a more conventional interface.
Were you able to place say Safari windows closer to and farther away from you? How close, how far? Change text sizes? The UI guidelines seem to say that windows will get smaller the closer to you and get bigger the farther away from you, and similarly text will get smaller the closer it is and bigger the farther it is.
Did you try direct touch on the virtual displays? How many windows were opened and displayed simultaneously?
There will need to be more gestures. For scrolling long lists, they will have to do something other then a pinch-slide. It will have to be a pinch-rotate. And or add scroll bars that can be selected.
They really need to have Terminal.app in it, assuming the text is clear.
And yes, people will have to get used to it and build up muscles for it. You're putting a 1 lb weight in front of your face with a light seal mashed up into your orbitals and big strap behind your head. So, the neck muscles have to be built up. Have to get used to the compression on your face and the back of your head.
The eyeballs muscles also have to be trained. It's one part always focusing at the same distance and another part tricking the brain to percieve objects that further or closer even though they are not.
Most of what you're asking about doesn't work yet.
More questions.
In the passthrough mode, are you looking at the a "video" of the room, like you are looking through an iPhone camera? Virtual displays are placed in the volume and appear rigid and fixed in space?
When you look at your hands, is it a video of your hands, with only 12ms latency? Of is it a digital 3D recreation of your hands?
HoloLens does not use holography. If it's "holographic" as Microsoft advertises (and the press regurgitates unchallenged), it's only in the limited sense of simulating the experience of viewing holographic imagery. The technology used is stereoscopic vision. To someone who knows what holography is, calling HoloLens holographic is (euphemistically speaking) inaccurate.
No claim that it does was made in this piece. It's mostly a stereoscopic Pepper's Ghost effect.
What appears to be a Microsoft advertisement is reproduced in the article. Quoting from therein: "An ergonomic, untethered self-contained holographic device..." [emphasis added].
Okay? I didn't say it was a hologram, and MS can say what they want about it. The pricing on the HoloLens was the point.
False advertising isn't "okay." I know what your point was, but I also saw the use of "holographic" in the reproduced ad. That was my point. I'm sorry it took a second post for you to see it, but that's how insidious false information can be when it's not checked.
Could this be used in a vehicle? Sounds strange I know but I envisage a use in vehicles like motorcycles where it could act like a HUD giving us more information around us that would allow use to keep our eyes on the road more.
The clarification on the HoloLens actually using holograms is important but misses the bigger point, which is that the VisionPro is aiming for many of the same use cases as the HoloLens does (as it limps along until MS kills it.)
The HoloLens 2 projects a 2k image onto a clear visor so the wearer can still see their surroundings. This approach has pros and cons vs a pass through mode but the biggest advantage is that it allows images to be projected onto the wearers vision without using the camera array and processing power required by the VisionPro.
Apple has spent tremendous resources designing the VisionPro to have a terrific pass through mode and seems to have mostly succeeded. I’m sure the VisionPro will be able to use this in ways that the literal vision pass through of the HoloLens cannot but it’s not surprising that developers are trying some of the same applications with it.
Will there be an app that can convert to and from sign language?
P.S. I know there are many different sign languages, roughly one per country. I guess the first one to get interpreted would likely be ASL, American Sign Language.
Could this be used in a vehicle? Sounds strange I know but I envisage a use in vehicles like motorcycles where it could act like a HUD giving us more information around us that would allow use to keep our eyes on the road more.
No. The device will have velocity detection to prevent such usage. Anything "high speed" is going to be off limits and Apple probably doesn't want to be 1st one to be in the liability lawsuits.
There is the noted Airplane Mode. Perhaps that mode can be used in a car in a VR mode, obviously as a passenger. For AR mode, it probably doesn't have low enough latency and brightness to do it. They aren't going to let people use AR mode in high velocity situation like on a motorcycle or driving a car.
If there is a passive see-through goggles, perhaps, but I wouldn't bet on it until the latency, peripheral vision and brightness issues are worked out.
Will there be an app that can convert to and from sign language?
P.S. I know there are many different sign languages, roughly one per country. I guess the first one to get interpreted would likely be ASL, American Sign Language.
A 3rd party developer might try to do it if they have access to the cameras and sensor, along with spending some time and money on ML training. Not sure what the compute requirements are for running this type of ML program though.
It's going to be done eventually, and done by Apple, but it's going to take awhile. It's not just sign language. It's also audio transcription and translation, as well as visual transcription.
The clarification on the HoloLens actually using holograms is important but misses the bigger point, which is that the VisionPro is aiming for many of the same use cases as the HoloLens does (as it limps along until MS kills it.)
The HoloLens 2 projects a 2k image onto a clear visor so the wearer can still see their surroundings. This approach has pros and cons vs a pass through mode but the biggest advantage is that it allows images to be projected onto the wearers vision without using the camera array and processing power required by the VisionPro.
Apple has spent tremendous resources designing the VisionPro to have a terrific pass through mode and seems to have mostly succeeded. I’m sure the VisionPro will be able to use this in ways that the literal vision pass through of the HoloLens cannot but it’s not surprising that developers are trying some of the same applications with it.
That wasn't an advantage. It was a disadvantage and this technology path that MS chose for the HoloLens likely killed it.
"The Apple Vision Pro defines the genre for sure — at the very-high end. This time, intentionally, they aimed too high on cost for the consumer."
There is a clue in the name. The stripped-back 'Apple Vision' will surely follow once the 'more money than sense' market has been milked.
AVP is much less expensive than other high end AR devices on the market, and it looks like it will deliver a better experience. I think many are underestimating the high demand this product will have. I also don’t think a “stripped back” version will ever happen.
The clarification on the HoloLens actually using holograms is important but misses the bigger point, which is that the VisionPro is aiming for many of the same use cases as the HoloLens does (as it limps along until MS kills it.)
The HoloLens 2 projects a 2k image onto a clear visor so the wearer can still see their surroundings. This approach has pros and cons vs a pass through mode but the biggest advantage is that it allows images to be projected onto the wearers vision without using the camera array and processing power required by the VisionPro.
Apple has spent tremendous resources designing the VisionPro to have a terrific pass through mode and seems to have mostly succeeded. I’m sure the VisionPro will be able to use this in ways that the literal vision pass through of the HoloLens cannot but it’s not surprising that developers are trying some of the same applications with it.
The difference between Apple Vision Pro and the HoloLens probably is the same as the difference between the iPhone and Microsoft Windows mobile phone. Which is to say, Microsoft just isn’t in the game. Apples hardware design (M2/R1 SOC’s), the OS underneath and the developers currently within Apples ecosystems is far beyond Microsoft’s HoloLens/Windows mobile swing and a miss.
I think Apple demonstrated the use of Vision Pro and AirPods in the in-flight scenario. You don’t see and hear what’s around you… Sadly it won’t be possible with AirPods Max which I have now. But maybe the ANC and audio will improve so much for the small AirPods that i will not need Max in 2-3 years anymore.
Maybe, but it doesn't work now, nor does there appear to be hooks for it.
They showed the use case in their launch event. I would be shocked if the VP doesn’t support AirPlay audio endpoints just like any other Mac or iOS device.
"The Apple Vision Pro defines the genre for sure — at the very-high end. This time, intentionally, they aimed too high on cost for the consumer."
There is a clue in the name. The stripped-back 'Apple Vision' will surely follow once the 'more money than sense' market has been milked.
lol. It’s less expensive than the original Macintosh was (over $7,000 corrected for inflation). Early adopters with the means to do so are not somehow lacking sense.
I’m hoping I’ll be lucky enough to be able to buy one of these when it first comes out. I’ll have my finger right in the buy now button. But likely there won’t be enough to go around and there will be others who tapped a small fraction of a second before me. Oh well, we’ll see.
ive tried some high end industrial models. They all cost a lot more than this one. They’re pretty good, but are tethered to a computer. I’ve did spit some problems with them such as resolution that was almost, but not quite high enough. Field of view that was adequate, but not great. Some stuttering, etc. all were notably heavier than a pound. But I really don’t consider weight to be a major issue as long as it’s not over two pounds. I had a couple of dual eye infra red head units for our darkrooms. These weighed slightly over two pounds, also with batteries in the pocket, or on a waistband. The batteries being extra weight and lasting about an hour. Most of that weight was forward of your face. Not very comfortable, but you get used to it. There are lots of head mounted equipment in use in various industries that are worn for hours at a time that are heavy. They’re necessary to use, and again, you get used to it. Some competitors are listed at about one and a quarter to one and a half pounds. If the AVP is really a pound, that a lot lighter.
As noted in the article, the vision correction system is an important component, something I will need to try live before I consider any further. It is possible that my vision defect will not be accommodated by this device (and please don't ask about it, as I really don't think this is an appropriate place for that.) Also noted in the article that the cost of what is possible is not being disclosed. Once that is known, and what is available for a demo, I am looking forward to trying the device. I imagine the return policy on such things will be different too. I doubt Apple will sell me corrective lenses to my Rx, and then after I find they simply don't work for me, return them for full refund. Maybe this is something they will add to AppleCare...for a fee.
All that said, I'm still not sure what I would use the device for. Maybe once the product is...well...fully invented...that will become clear (!). As it stands, not sure I am ready to plop down $4k to watch movies on an airplane in peace.
I’m hoping I’ll be lucky enough to be able to buy one of these when it first comes out. I’ll have my finger right in the buy now button. But likely there won’t be enough to go around and there will be others who tapped a small fraction of a second before me. Oh well, we’ll see.
ive tried some high end industrial models. They all cost a lot more than this one. They’re pretty good, but are tethered to a computer. I’ve did spit some problems with them such as resolution that was almost, but not quite high enough. Field of view that was adequate, but not great. Some stuttering, etc. all were notably heavier than a pound. But I really don’t consider weight to be a major issue as long as it’s not over two pounds. I had a couple of dual eye infra red head units for our darkrooms. These weighed slightly over two pounds, also with batteries in the pocket, or on a waistband. The batteries being extra weight and lasting about an hour. Most of that weight was forward of your face. Not very comfortable, but you get used to it. There are lots of head mounted equipment in use in various industries that are worn for hours at a time that are heavy. They’re necessary to use, and again, you get used to it. Some competitors are listed at about one and a quarter to one and a half pounds. If the AVP is really a pound, that a lot lighter.
Touché Mel, half a second after midnight will be the difference between getting the Apple Vision Pro in two weeks or getting it in six weeks or ten weeks……
Did you try any of the environments? If so, were they impressive? Were you able to walk around within them? They mentioned they’re captured volumetrically and showed some camera motions that made it appear as if you can sorta move within them.
Comments
It's a curiously blind spot for them.
In the passthrough mode, are you looking at the a "video" of the room, like you are looking through an iPhone camera? Virtual displays are placed in the volume and appear rigid and fixed in space?
When you look at your hands, is it a video of your hands, with only 12ms latency? Of is it a digital 3D recreation of your hands?
The HoloLens 2 projects a 2k image onto a clear visor so the wearer can still see their surroundings. This approach has pros and cons vs a pass through mode but the biggest advantage is that it allows images to be projected onto the wearers vision without using the camera array and processing power required by the VisionPro.
Apple has spent tremendous resources designing the VisionPro to have a terrific pass through mode and seems to have mostly succeeded. I’m sure the VisionPro will be able to use this in ways that the literal vision pass through of the HoloLens cannot but it’s not surprising that developers are trying some of the same applications with it.
P.S. I know there are many different sign languages, roughly one per country. I guess the first one to get interpreted would likely be ASL, American Sign Language.
There is the noted Airplane Mode. Perhaps that mode can be used in a car in a VR mode, obviously as a passenger. For AR mode, it probably doesn't have low enough latency and brightness to do it. They aren't going to let people use AR mode in high velocity situation like on a motorcycle or driving a car.
If there is a passive see-through goggles, perhaps, but I wouldn't bet on it until the latency, peripheral vision and brightness issues are worked out.
It's going to be done eventually, and done by Apple, but it's going to take awhile. It's not just sign language. It's also audio transcription and translation, as well as visual transcription.
ive tried some high end industrial models. They all cost a lot more than this one. They’re pretty good, but are tethered to a computer. I’ve did spit some problems with them such as resolution that was almost, but not quite high enough. Field of view that was adequate, but not great. Some stuttering, etc. all were notably heavier than a pound. But I really don’t consider weight to be a major issue as long as it’s not over two pounds. I had a couple of dual eye infra red head units for our darkrooms. These weighed slightly over two pounds, also with batteries in the pocket, or on a waistband. The batteries being extra weight and lasting about an hour. Most of that weight was forward of your face. Not very comfortable, but you get used to it. There are lots of head mounted equipment in use in various industries that are worn for hours at a time that are heavy. They’re necessary to use, and again, you get used to it. Some competitors are listed at about one and a quarter to one and a half pounds. If the AVP is really a pound, that a lot lighter.
All that said, I'm still not sure what I would use the device for. Maybe once the product is...well...fully invented...that will become clear (!). As it stands, not sure I am ready to plop down $4k to watch movies on an airplane in peace.
Touché Mel, half a second after midnight will be the difference between getting the Apple Vision Pro in two weeks or getting it in six weeks or ten weeks……