FineWeave isn't eco-friendly at all. Leather is a nose-to-tail product made from skins adding revenue to farmers. Replacing something natural with a plastic product that isn't durable - like not durable at all - is the worst possible solution. FineWeave doesn't even patinate nicely when used.
It seems Mother Nature will have to visit Cupertino soon to fix this. Thanks to AI for an honest review!
The flip side to that argument is that cattle are an incredibly inefficient source of protein relative to the amount of feed/water that has to be used per pound. So even though the leather is not the primary reason for raising cattle, the primary reason actually turns out to be kind of dumb from a resource perspective. And that doesn't even take into account the methane part of the equation.
I saw the finewoven case at the Pentagon City Apple Store on Friday and it seemed not that high quality and overpriced. I'd prefer the silicone case to finewoven.
Honestly asking, what is the environmental issue with the leather case? The leather cases are reusing the wrapping from my beef, it's not like cows are produced to use for iPhone cases and the meat is an afterthought is it? Is the process of making the leather and using it worse than just composting the cow hides? What is it? I know my tone might seem snarky but seriously isn't there just an enormous amount of cowhide out there? Wouldn't an iPhone case be better than tossing it?
The chemicals and water used during the tanning process would probably be a big part of it.
I agree, leather is a by product of the food industry. It also is a natural product and ages extremely well. I've had the Apple leather case for 2 years and it is only now starting to break up at the edges after a lot of abuse. I will be looking for a leather case from another provider. Any suggestions? I saw someone mention Nomad
That isn't quote correct. The hide is a byproduct of the food industry, but the tanning process to make leather is a different story and I don't know of a single mass producer that has used so-called "natural" methods for tanning these days. Even if we did use some old-timey "natural" methods, like scraping oak bark for its tannins, that has a cost. What is the ratio of cut oak trees for its various uses in lumber to the amount of bark obtained? Is there a chemical option that can be created that would do a better job at a lower cost? What other ingredients and byproducts are created to create leather? How much of the tanned leather is wasted (something I've noticed happens so that the material is consistent for the entire piece needed)?
I can't say whether leather produced at an industrial scale is or isn't better for the environment than reusing discarded plastics, but I can't say it's better simply because one initial aspect of it is a byproduct of another industry or that someone calls it "natural". There's a lot of date to crunch to get an informed answer.
There are any number of leather purveyors that don't use arsenic, cobalt, or other chemicals in tanning. Check Bridge of Weir. The leather used in BMW i4s and Polestar 2s use natural tanning. So the argument begins to fall flat at scale.
1) You need to supply scale numbers to show that the options you mention are comparable.
2) Again, the use of "natural' doesn't saying anything except check a box for a marketing buzzword. How do they tan? What is the current overall and longterm environmental cost of using leather from start to finish v reclaimed materials?
I saw the finewoven case at the Pentagon City Apple Store on Friday and it seemed not that high quality and overpriced. I'd prefer the silicone case to finewoven.
Honestly asking, what is the environmental issue with the leather case? The leather cases are reusing the wrapping from my beef, it's not like cows are produced to use for iPhone cases and the meat is an afterthought is it? Is the process of making the leather and using it worse than just composting the cow hides? What is it? I know my tone might seem snarky but seriously isn't there just an enormous amount of cowhide out there? Wouldn't an iPhone case be better than tossing it?
The chemicals and water used during the tanning process would probably be a big part of it.
I agree, leather is a by product of the food industry. It also is a natural product and ages extremely well. I've had the Apple leather case for 2 years and it is only now starting to break up at the edges after a lot of abuse. I will be looking for a leather case from another provider. Any suggestions? I saw someone mention Nomad
That isn't quote correct. The hide is a byproduct of the food industry, but the tanning process to make leather is a different story and I don't know of a single mass producer that has used so-called "natural" methods for tanning these days. Even if we did use some old-timey "natural" methods, like scraping oak bark for its tannins, that has a cost. What is the ratio of cut oak trees for its various uses in lumber to the amount of bark obtained? Is there a chemical option that can be created that would do a better job at a lower cost? What other ingredients and byproducts are created to create leather? How much of the tanned leather is wasted (something I've noticed happens so that the material is consistent for the entire piece needed)?
I can't say whether leather produced at an industrial scale is or isn't better for the environment than reusing discarded plastics, but I can't say it's better simply because one initial aspect of it is a byproduct of another industry or that someone calls it "natural". There's a lot of date to crunch to get an informed answer.
There are any number of leather purveyors that don't use arsenic, cobalt, or other chemicals in tanning. Check Bridge of Weir. The leather used in BMW i4s and Polestar 2s use natural tanning. So the argument begins to fall flat at scale.
1) You need to supply scale numbers to show that the options you mention are comparable.
2) Again, the use of "natural' doesn't saying anything except check a box for a marketing buzzword. How do they tan? What is the current overall and longterm environmental cost of using leather from start to finish v reclaimed materials?
Seriously? If BMW can do it with much more leather needed for a car interior, why would it be impossible for Apple to source cases?
BTW, look into how Horween leather is tanned. Phone cases using their leather should definitely be more friendly to the environment.
Sorry Andrew -- I'm very interested in whether my next Apple watch band should be leather or FineWoven and unfortunately this review strains credibility. You report snags, lint, stains, scratches, and other durability issues. But every photo in the review shows a brand-new, nice looking FineWoven case. It's a physical product, show the photos! TTIUWP.
If you want something more real-time, feel free to head into an Apple Store. They change them daily, and they still look terrible after a few hours.
From normal use? Or from people intentionally trying to stress the material? I guarantee you that if you handed me your leather iPhone case I could put some rather large scratches into it with my fingernails in a matter of seconds.
That is a dumbass comparison. This obviously isn't about either case standing up to deliberate abuse. Even if it was, the leather would still be more durable than a fabric case.
I agree the video doesn't demonstrate the criticisms offered, and that should have been done. In fact, most of the video sounds almost alike an add for those woven cases. Leather absolutely will resist staining better than a fabric case. Someone spilled a drink on a table where my phone lay. I heard the noise and turned to see my phone in a spreading puddle. Picking up and quickly wiping it off, none the worse. Maybe Scotchguard for the woven would help.
Sliding in and out of a pocket - leather for the win. These woven cases may be just the thing for some owners. Not for me. If the fabric case is the way someone wants to go, fine. It probably won't be long before we find that AI isn't the only reviewer finding woven cases to be generally inferior to leather, Apple's pervious premium case.
I've had leather cases for some previous iPhones, and found them to be superior in craftsmanship than anything in the third-party market. I'll be looking for something nearly as nice, but I don't expect to find anything as good. If I'm wrong that's ok too.
I got the FW Apple Wallet the day it went in sale and received it Friday, the day of the iPhone presale. Well, I didn’t read the fine print and attempted using the Wallet with my iPhone 14 PM and it wasn’t recognizing the FindMy app. I later found out by calling Apple the new FW Apple Wallet is ONLY recognized by an iPhone 15 using iOS 17.
That aside, i also am displeased with the quality of the FW product: I have scratches already and even the magnet doesn’t seem as strong as a the third party wallet I had on my prior phone: it falls off my iPhone 15 PM constantly with very little nudging in my pocket. I bought a third party case for my new iPhone and the Wallet sticks better to that. <Sigh>.
Lastly, anyone else having WiFi connectivity issues? This new iPhone won’t retain my WiFi creds at home. <Sigh again>
Sorry Andrew -- I'm very interested in whether my next Apple watch band should be leather or FineWoven and unfortunately this review strains credibility. You report snags, lint, stains, scratches, and other durability issues. But every photo in the review shows a brand-new, nice looking FineWoven case. It's a physical product, show the photos! TTIUWP.
If you want something more real-time, feel free to head into an Apple Store. They change them daily, and they still look terrible after a few hours.
They change them daily?!?!
Well, that certainly sounds like an ecological approach!
FineWeave isn't eco-friendly at all. Leather is a nose-to-tail product made from skins adding revenue to farmers. Replacing something natural with a plastic product that isn't durable - like not durable at all - is the worst possible solution. FineWeave doesn't even patinate nicely when used.
It seems Mother Nature will have to visit Cupertino soon to fix this. Thanks to AI for an honest review!
The flip side to that argument is that cattle are an incredibly inefficient source of protein relative to the amount of feed/water that has to be used per pound. So even though the leather is not the primary reason for raising cattle, the primary reason actually turns out to be kind of dumb from a resource perspective. And that doesn't even take into account the methane part of the equation.
Yet... cattle are an incredibly tasty source of protein regardless of the amount of feed/water that has to be used per pound.
Are you pushing for some kind of Bladerunner dystopian future where we all eat cultured meats? No thank you!
Sorry Andrew -- I'm very interested in whether my next Apple watch band should be leather or FineWoven and unfortunately this review strains credibility. You report snags, lint, stains, scratches, and other durability issues. But every photo in the review shows a brand-new, nice looking FineWoven case. It's a physical product, show the photos! TTIUWP.
If you want something more real-time, feel free to head into an Apple Store. They change them daily, and they still look terrible after a few hours.
They change them daily?!?!
Well, that certainly sounds like an ecological approach!
I didn't believe it either, so I asked other folks that we have inside Apple stores. Turns out yep, daily swap-outs, or "as needed."
Sorry Andrew -- I'm very interested in whether my next Apple watch band should be leather or FineWoven and unfortunately this review strains credibility. You report snags, lint, stains, scratches, and other durability issues. But every photo in the review shows a brand-new, nice looking FineWoven case. It's a physical product, show the photos! TTIUWP.
If you want something more real-time, feel free to head into an Apple Store. They change them daily, and they still look terrible after a few hours.
They change them daily?!?!
Well, that certainly sounds like an ecological approach!
I didn't believe it either, so I asked other folks that we have inside Apple stores. Turns out yep, daily swap-outs, or "as needed."
Now we know why the price is so damned high. They need to keep the stores supplied.
So Apple since the world is still consuming massive amounts of beef isn’t it better to use the hide of these animals for iPhone cases instead of wasting it? I think that is more environmentally friendly and by the way it’s a vastly superior material than this ”fabric” you made. Sometimes being efficient in the use of all materials (I.e cow hide) is actually the better choice all around.
There’s also a thing called ‘ Customer Satisfaction’ which by selling these Fine Woven cases shows Apple has forgotten what that means The Animals will be slaughtered for their meat and the skins burned or put in a Landfill Seems to me making an iPhone case out of that leather would solve a problem not create one…….Lets ask Mother Nature
I saw the finewoven case at the Pentagon City Apple Store on Friday and it seemed not that high quality and overpriced. I'd prefer the silicone case to finewoven.
Honestly asking, what is the environmental issue with the leather case? The leather cases are reusing the wrapping from my beef, it's not like cows are produced to use for iPhone cases and the meat is an afterthought is it? Is the process of making the leather and using it worse than just composting the cow hides? What is it? I know my tone might seem snarky but seriously isn't there just an enormous amount of cowhide out there? Wouldn't an iPhone case be better than tossing it?
The chemicals and water used during the tanning process would probably be a big part of it.
I agree, leather is a by product of the food industry. It also is a natural product and ages extremely well. I've had the Apple leather case for 2 years and it is only now starting to break up at the edges after a lot of abuse. I will be looking for a leather case from another provider. Any suggestions? I saw someone mention Nomad
That isn't quote correct. The hide is a byproduct of the food industry, but the tanning process to make leather is a different story and I don't know of a single mass producer that has used so-called "natural" methods for tanning these days. Even if we did use some old-timey "natural" methods, like scraping oak bark for its tannins, that has a cost. What is the ratio of cut oak trees for its various uses in lumber to the amount of bark obtained? Is there a chemical option that can be created that would do a better job at a lower cost? What other ingredients and byproducts are created to create leather? How much of the tanned leather is wasted (something I've noticed happens so that the material is consistent for the entire piece needed)?
I can't say whether leather produced at an industrial scale is or isn't better for the environment than reusing discarded plastics, but I can't say it's better simply because one initial aspect of it is a byproduct of another industry or that someone calls it "natural". There's a lot of date to crunch to get an informed answer.
There are any number of leather purveyors that don't use arsenic, cobalt, or other chemicals in tanning. Check Bridge of Weir. The leather used in BMW i4s and Polestar 2s use natural tanning. So the argument begins to fall flat at scale.
1) You need to supply scale numbers to show that the options you mention are comparable.
2) Again, the use of "natural' doesn't saying anything except check a box for a marketing buzzword. How do they tan? What is the current overall and longterm environmental cost of using leather from start to finish v reclaimed materials?
Seriously? If BMW can do it with much more leather needed for a car interior, why would it be impossible for Apple to source cases?
BTW, look into how Horween leather is tanned. Phone cases using their leather should definitely be more friendly to the environment.
Do it? What is this it you fail to describe at all? That BMW sells cars with leather with a zero carbon footprint or any environmental impact in the same exact way that Apple described? Yet again, can you at least show some work that BMW's 2.5m cars and 200k motorcycles that would have leather in them are in some way equivalent to the 250m iPhones, 65m iPads, and 50m Watches that Apple sells and total number of products that have leather purchased as an option from Apple. I certainly haven't seen a single piece of data that would help detail how those numbers would be crunched, and here you are throwing BMW into the comparison while still not providing any support for your claims that leather inherently a green option.
Furthermore, you mention a specific company that in no way looks like the leather Apple would use or could use while also ignoring that BMW uses a wide range of leather types for their vehicles, including their entry level leather which is completely synthetic.
Finally, I found no intersection with the Horween and the leather used by BMW for their cars. So you posted a very specific leather option that you still haven't shown is more environmentally friendly than Apple's reused plastic option while making it look like they work with BMW at scale for their automobiles yet that doesn't seem to be the case at all?
Once again and hopefully for the last time, it's great to have a notion that something in totality is better for the environment at the scale Apple uses, but you need to show your work. If you can't, they stop complaining and by your leather cases from a 3rd-party company as there are countless out there.
By the sounds of this forum, it looks like Apple has more refining to do.
So does this mean that they are going to change out the leather seats in the Steve Jobs auditorium at some point?
1) I've never purchase a leather anything from Apple. Their options always seemed expensive for what you get and there were others that seemed to have better products for the money.
2) It would be silly to replace the seats just to remove the leather. The environment cost is already set. When they do replace the seats I'd be surprised if they use real leather after their stated goal. Here's the company used for those seats.
Sorry Andrew -- I'm very interested in whether my next Apple watch band should be leather or FineWoven and unfortunately this review strains credibility. You report snags, lint, stains, scratches, and other durability issues. But every photo in the review shows a brand-new, nice looking FineWoven case. It's a physical product, show the photos! TTIUWP.
If you want something more real-time, feel free to head into an Apple Store. They change them daily, and they still look terrible after a few hours.
From normal use? Or from people intentionally trying to stress the material? I guarantee you that if you handed me your leather iPhone case I could put some rather large scratches into it with my fingernails in a matter of seconds.
That is a dumbass comparison. This obviously isn't about either case standing up to deliberate abuse. Even if it was, the leather would still be more durable than a fabric case.
I agree the video doesn't demonstrate the criticisms offered, and that should have been done. In fact, most of the video sounds almost alike an add for those woven cases. Leather absolutely will resist staining better than a fabric case. Someone spilled a drink on a table where my phone lay. I heard the noise and turned to see my phone in a spreading puddle. Picking up and quickly wiping it off, none the worse. Maybe Scotchguard for the woven would help.
Sliding in and out of a pocket - leather for the win. These woven cases may be just the thing for some owners. Not for me. If the fabric case is the way someone wants to go, fine. It probably won't be long before we find that AI isn't the only reviewer finding woven cases to be generally inferior to leather, Apple's pervious premium case.
I've had leather cases for some previous iPhones, and found them to be superior in craftsmanship than anything in the third-party market. I'll be looking for something nearly as nice, but I don't expect to find anything as good. If I'm wrong that's ok too.
I suggest you consider vaja cases. I’ve had several and they are excellent.
Sorry Andrew -- I'm very interested in whether my next Apple watch band should be leather or FineWoven and unfortunately this review strains credibility. You report snags, lint, stains, scratches, and other durability issues. But every photo in the review shows a brand-new, nice looking FineWoven case. It's a physical product, show the photos! TTIUWP.
If you want something more real-time, feel free to head into an Apple Store. They change them daily, and they still look terrible after a few hours.
From normal use? Or from people intentionally trying to stress the material? I guarantee you that if you handed me your leather iPhone case I could put some rather large scratches into it with my fingernails in a matter of seconds.
That is a dumbass comparison. This obviously isn't about either case standing up to deliberate abuse. Even if it was, the leather would still be more durable than a fabric case.
I agree the video doesn't demonstrate the criticisms offered, and that should have been done. In fact, most of the video sounds almost alike an add for those woven cases. Leather absolutely will resist staining better than a fabric case. Someone spilled a drink on a table where my phone lay. I heard the noise and turned to see my phone in a spreading puddle. Picking up and quickly wiping it off, none the worse. Maybe Scotchguard for the woven would help.
Sliding in and out of a pocket - leather for the win. These woven cases may be just the thing for some owners. Not for me. If the fabric case is the way someone wants to go, fine. It probably won't be long before we find that AI isn't the only reviewer finding woven cases to be generally inferior to leather, Apple's pervious premium case.
I've had leather cases for some previous iPhones, and found them to be superior in craftsmanship than anything in the third-party market. I'll be looking for something nearly as nice, but I don't expect to find anything as good. If I'm wrong that's ok too.
I suggest you consider vaja cases. I’ve had several and they are excellent.
Those look nice but even if the price of $99 to $340 wasn't a turnoff for me, the extra bulk would be. At least this shows that the leather iPhone case industry is alive and well for 3rd-parties.
Lots of pooh-poohing the FineWoven cases durability. Did the leather case hold up great? It never seemed that way to me, but I was never going to pay $60 for an iPhone protector anyway. If you still want leather there are many options. Either Apple will lower their prices (and then potentially discontinue the product) because they don't sell, or they'll be popular enough to keep them about where are now. Either way, we all know we can get leather cases from many other sources.
I have a leather case and MagSafe card holder for my 13 pro and they've held up great. they don't look new but have worn exactly how I expect a leather product to wear and still work as good as the day I got them.
Comments
2) Again, the use of "natural' doesn't saying anything except check a box for a marketing buzzword. How do they tan? What is the current overall and longterm environmental cost of using leather from start to finish v reclaimed materials?
BTW, look into how Horween leather is tanned. Phone cases using their leather should definitely be more friendly to the environment.
I agree the video doesn't demonstrate the criticisms offered, and that should have been done. In fact, most of the video sounds almost alike an add for those woven cases. Leather absolutely will resist staining better than a fabric case. Someone spilled a drink on a table where my phone lay. I heard the noise and turned to see my phone in a spreading puddle. Picking up and quickly wiping it off, none the worse. Maybe Scotchguard for the woven would help.
Sliding in and out of a pocket - leather for the win. These woven cases may be just the thing for some owners. Not for me. If the fabric case is the way someone wants to go, fine. It probably won't be long before we find that AI isn't the only reviewer finding woven cases to be generally inferior to leather, Apple's pervious premium case.
I've had leather cases for some previous iPhones, and found them to be superior in craftsmanship than anything in the third-party market. I'll be looking for something nearly as nice, but I don't expect to find anything as good. If I'm wrong that's ok too.
Well, that certainly sounds like an ecological approach!
Are you pushing for some kind of Bladerunner dystopian future where we all eat cultured meats? No thank you!
which by selling these Fine Woven cases shows Apple has forgotten what that means
The Animals will be slaughtered for their meat and the skins burned or put in a Landfill Seems to me making an iPhone case out of that leather would solve a problem not create one…….Lets ask Mother Nature
Furthermore, you mention a specific company that in no way looks like the leather Apple would use or could use while also ignoring that BMW uses a wide range of leather types for their vehicles, including their entry level leather which is completely synthetic.
https://www.bmwblog.com/2019/12/23/know-your-leather-here-are-the-different-types-of-bmw-leather-options/
Finally, I found no intersection with the Horween and the leather used by BMW for their cars. So you posted a very specific leather option that you still haven't shown is more environmentally friendly than Apple's reused plastic option while making it look like they work with BMW at scale for their automobiles yet that doesn't seem to be the case at all?
Once again and hopefully for the last time, it's great to have a notion that something in totality is better for the environment at the scale Apple uses, but you need to show your work. If you can't, they stop complaining and by your leather cases from a 3rd-party company as there are countless out there.
has more refining to do.
2) It would be silly to replace the seats just to remove the leather. The environment cost is already set. When they do replace the seats I'd be surprised if they use real leather after their stated goal. Here's the company used for those seats.
https://www.poltronafrau.com/us/en/about/how-we-do-it/the-leather.html
It appears Apple shares Andrew's assessment of their cases!
As someone on 9 to 5 Mac commented - more of these 'fine' woven cases are likely to end up in the landfill, negating the supposed eco-benefit.