Without irony, Microsoft CEO says Google unfairly dominates search

AppleInsider

Despite Microsoft's overwhelming lead in installed computer operating systems, Microsoft CEO Satya Nadella testified that the Apple-Google default search deal has unfairly hurt Bing badly.

Microsoft CEO Satya Nadella

Nadella took to the witness stand on Monday, offering testimony in the Department of Justice's antitrust lawsuit against Google. In his comments, he explained how he believes the deal between Apple and Google to have Google the default search engine in Safari was harmful to Bing, Microsoft's own search service.

Due to the default agreements, "you get up in the morning, you brush your teeth, and you search on Google," Nadella said according to the Wall Street Journal. "With that level of habit forming, the only way to change is by changing defaults."

Microsoft was therefore in a "vicious cycle" due to Google's massive 90% market share, since it could continue to improve results and earn more revenue, which then is used to improve its results and maintain its monopoly.

Nadella also declared that the thought of there being real choice for consumers in the search engine market is "bogus."

According to Statcounter, Google.com has an 83.27% market share of the global mobile search engine market, excluding regional variations, while Bing only has a 0.46% share. On desktop, Google.com has 74.34%, Bing has 8.15%.

On desktop, Chrome is the most popular browser at 64.31%, with Safari at 12.46, and Microsoft Edge at 10.64%. However, Microsoft's Windows has the largest desktop operating system share at 68.44% while macOS is 20.14%.

The criticism of the arrangement from Nadella is apt, given Microsoft's history in the browser wars. At one point, Microsoft agreed to provide a browser ballot, allowing users to freely choose which browser to install onto Windows, rather than defaulting them to Internet Explorer.

And, Microsoft now has a larger percent of operating systems installed on computer, than Google has for search on Desktop.

An AI query

The testimony also arrives after a report that Microsoft discussed selling Bing to Apple in 2020, but discussions never left the exploratory phase.

Questioned for about an hour, Nadella was also asked whether innovations in AI could be used to beat Google. Nadella referred to search as "the biggest no-fly zone of all," in that there are limits as to what AI could do to change the search market.

"The distribution advantage Google has today doesn't go away, in fact, if anything, I worry a lot that - even in spite of my enthusiasm that there is a new angle with AI - this vicious circle that I'm trapped in could even become even more vicious because the defaults get reinforced."

During cross-examination, Google lead trial counsel John Schmidtlein offered that Microsoft "was caught sleeping when Google introduced Chrome." Nadella agreed in part to the point, responding "Google did a good job of innovating in the browser."

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mayfly

I used to consider Microsoft to be an evil empire, out to destroy the Jedis at Apple.

But then in 1988, I saw Windows 3 running at a demo at the old Elek-Tek store in Chicago, and thought to myself, "self, there's nothing like this at Apple!" and spent $3,450 for 50 shares of MS at $69.00 and still have it. After reinvesting all dividends until 2019, I now own 1,630.352 shares due to splits, and that investment is now woth $524,647.27 as of today's close (I also re-invested in Apple Inc. when Jobs returned, and no complaints there, either).

So say what you want, I hope MS wins. Apple isn't going to suffer any loss if they lose, since Bing or Google, doesn't matter to the bottom line. To paraphrase the late great Roberto Clemente, "Microsoft been very, very good to me." And I think Satya Nadella is an even better CEO than Gates, certainly by the sheer numbers!

mikethemartian

Irony notwithstanding, all that matters is how truthfully he answers the questions while under oath.

temperor

Says the CEO of a company that literally has dominated the computer OS scene. Because of that domination killed of Lotus 1-2-3 with Word/Excel/Powerpoint … And did exactly the same with collaboration and Teams … all because they bundled everything together … boohooo cry me a river. Yes Zoom had a short lived success in the beginning of the pandemic, but the platform power of MS quickly ended that.

nubus

The case against M$ made Gates look like a maniac and the stock performed like a bond for 15 years after MS lost.
This will take a decade, it will get ugly, but Google is a company without friends. EU has started doing 9-digits fines and US will take it further.

So.. we can expect more competition in search. It just won't happen tomorrow.

cpsro

Whatever you say, Satya.

igorsky

It’s like Spotify complaining about Apple Music. CEO’s who mismanage their product never seem to look in the mirror. 

twolf2919

From my experience, Google has mostly just  been  a better search engine - and its marketshare reflects that.  Unlike Microsoft, Google didn't have the luxury of using its profits in another market to finance its entry into another and killing the competition there by essentially price dumping (see Netscape's demise after MSFT bundled crappy IE).  Now THAT was monopolist, anti-competitive behavior!   Remember, Google got to its dominance vis-a-vis other search engines - Yahoo, Alta Vista, etc. - before the iPhone even existed.  As with the whole Internet thing, MSFT was late to the search party when it introduced Bing in 2009.   Why, then, if it was serious about catching up to the gorilla in the room, didn't it pay more to become the default search engine in iOS?   Is it really anti-competitive to pay to be the default search engine on iPhone - or is MSFT just crying the blues because it couldn't/wouldn't ante up?

 I'm not a great fan of GOOG - when a company has to make its motto "Don't be evil" to remind itself to be good, there's got to be a problem.  But where's the anti-competitive behavior?  It is not illegal to be a monopoly - it is only illegal to maintain ones monopoly via anti-competitive practices.  Outbidding other competitors - especially deep-pocketed ones like MSFT - to be the default search engine in Apple devices is not anti-competitive.

thadec

Not defending Microsoft or Google here, but I just want to point out that Microsoft is not suing Google here (because they would lose). The feds are. The feds called Microsoft as one of the many witnesses for the prosecution. They aren't trying to prove that Google did anything illegal or is a monopoly with respect to Microsoft. Instead, they are using Microsoft as a single data point in a much longer case to prove that Google has either done something illegal or is a monopoly. Microsoft really didn't want to have anything to do with this, because they knew that Google would mock them for their massive failures in mobile and search, as well as remind people of the stuff that Microsoft does to leverage Windows. 

freeassociate2

twolf2919 said:

From my experience, Google has mostly just  been  a better search engine - and its marketshare reflects that.  Unlike Microsoft, Google didn't have the luxury of using its profits in another market to finance its entry into another and killing the competition there by essentially price dumping…

Really? What do you call Android, Gmail, Workspace, YouTube, Chrome, Maps, et al? Google has tried to squeeze its wandering search tentacles into literally every market space by offering them for “free”. It simply bungled a lot of those efforts and excelled in others. But it definitely tried, and succeeded, in certain key markets.

hexclock

freeassociate2 said:

twolf2919 said:

From my experience, Google has mostly just  been  a better search engine - and its marketshare reflects that.  Unlike Microsoft, Google didn't have the luxury of using its profits in another market to finance its entry into another and killing the competition there by essentially price dumping…

Really? What do you call Android, Gmail, Workspace, YouTube, Chrome, Maps, et al? Google has tried to squeeze its wandering search tentacles into literally every market space by offering them for “free”. It simply bungled a lot of those efforts and excelled in others. But it definitely tried, and succeeded, in certain key markets.

They built the search engine before all that other stuff. Way before. 

cubeover

Sharks that ate so many operating systems and competitors, incl. Transmeta and BeOS, are crying wolf.
Let’s get everybody at the table of how can we make Search distributed and federated, perhaps based on DHT and links to Semantic Web?

Otherwise “we can’t get no… satyasfaction…”

red oak

mayfly said:

I used to consider Microsoft to be an evil empire, out to destroy the Jedis at Apple.

But then in 1988, I saw Windows 3 running at a demo at the old Elek-Tek store in Chicago, and thought to myself, "self, there's nothing like this at Apple!" and spent $3,450 for 50 shares of MS at $69.00 and still have it. After reinvesting all dividends until 2019, I now own 1,630.352 shares due to splits, and that investment is now woth $524,647.27 as of today's close (I also re-invested in Apple Inc. when Jobs returned, and no complaints there, either).

So say what you want, I hope MS wins. Apple isn't going to suffer any loss if they lose, since Bing or Google, doesn't matter to the bottom line. To paraphrase the late great Roberto Clemente, "Microsoft been very, very good to me." And I think Satya Nadella is an even better CEO than Gates, certainly by the sheer numbers!

Thanks for over-sharing, down to the cents 

 From the dates, I'm assuming you are 60+ years old.  Hopefully you have several more wins like this to make up for your retirement shortfall 

edited October 2023

omasou

Ahhh, MS isn't the leading platform of relevance anymore and defaulting their browser and search doesn't have a material impact.

Awww...Cry me a river.

edited October 2023

gatorguy

omasou said:

Ahhh, MS isn't the leading platform of relevance anymore and defaulting their browser and search doesn't have a material impact.

Awww...Cry me a river.

I hadn't thought of that. What is the default browser, and do they offer menu choices for others (Firefox, Chrome, Opera, Brave) when you install/upgrade Windows? The most recent upgrade we did, Microsoft was pretty aggressive at inserting its own services, to the point of being deceptive in doing so. 

edited October 2023

mayfly

red oak said:

mayfly said:

I used to consider Microsoft to be an evil empire, out to destroy the Jedis at Apple.

But then in 1988, I saw Windows 3 running at a demo at the old Elek-Tek store in Chicago, and thought to myself, "self, there's nothing like this at Apple!" and spent $3,450 for 50 shares of MS at $69.00 and still have it. After reinvesting all dividends until 2019, I now own 1,630.352 shares due to splits, and that investment is now woth $524,647.27 as of today's close (I also re-invested in Apple Inc. when Jobs returned, and no complaints there, either).

So say what you want, I hope MS wins. Apple isn't going to suffer any loss if they lose, since Bing or Google, doesn't matter to the bottom line. To paraphrase the late great Roberto Clemente, "Microsoft been very, very good to me." And I think Satya Nadella is an even better CEO than Gates, certainly by the sheer numbers!

Thanks for over-sharing, down to the cents 

 From the dates, I'm assuming you are 60+ years old.  Hopefully you have several more wins like this to make up for your retirement shortfall 

Thanks for the wishes on my retirement. You're right, I'm 72. Professional Apple user since the original 128K Mac (graphic artist for a printing company), and spent my last 11 working years at Apple. But please, don't concern yourself over a hypothetical "shortfall." My wife and I are doing just fine, thanks!

gatorguy

That was quite the performance from Microsoft's Nadella.  Investing $13B in OpenAI was supposed make Google dance, right?

 https://fortune.com/2023/10/02/satya-nadella-testifies-google-search-antitrust-case/

• "It was only eight months ago that Microsoft CEO Satya Nadella was triumphantly crowing about how his partnership with OpenAI had endowed him with the power to make Google “dance.” In a Washington, D.C., courtroom today, however, Nadella sounded like someone so enfeebled and despondent that he could barely operate his own laptop without escaping Google’s yoke.

It was a great performance by Nadella (including the sly reference to Google founder Larry Page’s “toothbrush test”—the idea that the company makes products that people will use twice a day) as the Microsoft boss plays every possible angle to score points against his arch-rival. Even the best NBA players, after all, are not too proud to flop."

"AI was supposed to be a game changer for internet search. And yet Microsoft’s Bing search engine, even with its ChatGPT superpowers, is still a bit player." 

filemakerfeller

MS - late to search, couldn't unseat the dominant player.
MS - late to mobile, couldn't unseat the dominant player(s).
Two data points don't make a trend, but still...

mayfly

FileMakerFeller said:

MS - late to search, couldn't unseat the dominant player.
MS - late to mobile, couldn't unseat the dominant player(s).
Two data points don't make a trend, but still...

MS - $2.3 TRILLION (as of today's close). Couldn't unseat the dominant market player. Crying all the way to the bank.

red oak

mayfly said:

red oak said:

mayfly said:

I used to consider Microsoft to be an evil empire, out to destroy the Jedis at Apple.

But then in 1988, I saw Windows 3 running at a demo at the old Elek-Tek store in Chicago, and thought to myself, "self, there's nothing like this at Apple!" and spent $3,450 for 50 shares of MS at $69.00 and still have it. After reinvesting all dividends until 2019, I now own 1,630.352 shares due to splits, and that investment is now woth $524,647.27 as of today's close (I also re-invested in Apple Inc. when Jobs returned, and no complaints there, either).

So say what you want, I hope MS wins. Apple isn't going to suffer any loss if they lose, since Bing or Google, doesn't matter to the bottom line. To paraphrase the late great Roberto Clemente, "Microsoft been very, very good to me." And I think Satya Nadella is an even better CEO than Gates, certainly by the sheer numbers!

Thanks for over-sharing, down to the cents 

 From the dates, I'm assuming you are 60+ years old.  Hopefully you have several more wins like this to make up for your retirement shortfall 

Thanks for the wishes on my retirement. You're right, I'm 72. Professional Apple user since the original 128K Mac (graphic artist for a printing company), and spent my last 11 working years at Apple. But please, don't concern yourself over a hypothetical "shortfall." My wife and I are doing just fine, thanks!

_______________________

11 years at Apple.  That is pretty cool.   You have seen it all 

fever905

temperor said:

Yes Zoom had a short lived success in the beginning of the pandemic, but the platform power of MS quickly ended that.

Teams is a far superior product than Zoom and even Slack and it just makes sense to have the integration with the Office suite and Sharepoint, and I'm sorry but Teams is not new, its just Link/Skype for Business rebranded which were around before the Pandemic.