Agree with Matsu...follow the dots and you know this makes sense.
I never thought my 15" TiGhz would remain at the top of its game for so long--could never justify changing to the AlBook with no rev in processor speed, so here I am!
The TiBook was last updated early November 2002 IIRC. That is more than six months. Time for some kind of update.
I would certainly like to see a speed bump in the 15 inch PB, however, going to the Al package, backlit keyboard, FW800, Airport Extreme (with a better antenna), ATI 9600, faster and larger HD, improved LCD, possibly improved battery would make for a very tasty upgrade even if it was stuck at 1GHz.
Just like I said. It's the 17" timeline that counts because the 15 won't get touched unless they can bump the 17 at the same time, and if it comes before or during Sept, that means G4's, if it comes after, the possibility of 970's grows.
Apple could get rid of the 867 mzh 15" Powerbook and just release a new updated 1 gzh one for around $2449. This would simplfy the Powerbook line and allow for an update without making the 15" faster than the 17".
The 15"is well overpriced and needs to come down. I'd venture that the 17 comes down to 2999, and the 15" could drop to 2499 with superdrive, but a combodrive option is still neccessary, in fact I would have one for the 17" aswell, DVD burning is still slow and limited on laptop drives. When 4X and (supported) "Multi" units come to the portable scene, then DVD-burning will be ready for mobile prime time. 1-2X is just painful.
When 4X drives are ready (with min 12X CDr speeds) Apple should just drop Combo altogether, but I think this is a ways off yet.
The options should be centered around screen size and price NOT drives.
A 15" model with 12" guts ought to be available for those pros who want screen size but neccessarily more VRAM, DVI, HDD, CPU/L3 etc etc... That's where they have to be most flexible.
What the lineup should look like is this:
12" Superdrive 1799.
15.4" Superdrive 1999. (same spec as 12)
15.4" Superdrive 2499, (same spec as 17)
17" Superdrive 2999.
No Combos (once DVDr gets fast and flexible enough, 4X multi)
The iBooks should move further down market, all combo, all 14.
999, slow leftover G3
1299, faster G4, more RAM, bigger HD
1499, fully optioned, Max RAM, airport included.
Windows laptops have improved by leaps and bounds, especially at the low end. Macs aren't threatened yet, well, actually they are, but they're still competitive. In 9 months, at current prices, they won't be anymore.
If we see G4 iBooks and PPC970 PB's, then that would be different, but laptop prices will go through a dramatic price drop as they become increasing popular with consumers and business alike. It's those market shifts where Apple tends to fall behind (as a segment becomes more affordable)
It's sorta embarrassing for any company to introduce <1GHz computers in 2003. But when I picked up (literally) a 12" PBook at MWSF, I realized this is one HOT machine!
The iBooks should move further down market, all combo, all 14.
Why do away with the 12" iBooks/sub-notebook?
For someone who doesn't need a large laptop and is working with a limited budget, a cheap 12" iBook with a reasonably speced G3 would be far preferable than spending $1700 dollars on the 12" G4.
Regarding the original post, anyone notice that Apple is NOT on the list of launch partners for the ATI Raedon Mobility 9600?
At any rate, I'm more interested in when the 15" AlBook is coming out, 9600 or not. I've finally got the $$, and a 15" laptop is the right size. Do I really want to buy a TiBook if the AlBook will be released next month? Any REAL insiders have an inkling as to a release date? Much appreesh.
Regarding the original post, anyone notice that Apple is NOT on the list of launch partners for the ATI Raedon Mobility 9600?
At any rate, I'm more interested in when the 15" AlBook is coming out, 9600 or not. I've finally got the $$, and a 15" laptop is the right size. Do I really want to buy a TiBook if the AlBook will be released next month? Any REAL insiders have an inkling as to a release date? Much appreesh.
-K
Just so you know, release dates are the hardest things for anyone to pin down. They can be changed on a whim at the last minute.
Apple could "bump" the 15" TiBook quietly if they don't have a big upgrade for it, or issue a press release if it's a moderate upgrade. However, they have at least one machine in every line that can boot Mac OS 9. That's the role of the current 15". When they no longer feel any need to offer that functionality (go Quark!) they can bump it to the OS X-only FW800/AirPort Extreme motherboard, and add whatever other goodies they feel like adding.
Probably right, I think it's still gonna be a while though. Quark is a moving target, at best.
AS for moving the iBook downmarket, it's the only thing to do, unless they want to intro another line of books.
The iMac Fp came out and was way too upmarket. Apple will jabber out edu, but the eMac exists solely because the iMac FP was well beyond the reach of most consumers.
The iBook isn't beyond their reach, but relative to the wintel competition it's lead is rapidly diminishing. Budget win notebooks used to be a pathetic joke, but they've gottne a lot better in the last year/and a half. Many now are light enough, have much bigger (and equally bright) screens, reasonable weight and batter life and the same combo optical drives.
Surveys of Budget laptop buyers routinely show that these customers value screen size and features (and better "specs") at the expense of ultimate weight and portability or battery life.
While the iBook is good (even now) compared to the Wintel competition, Apple is putting a 300 premium on a 14" screen that the other guy provides as standard (often for less than Apple's 12" price)
If they want to keep selling iBooks in the next 12 months, they will have a CHEAP 14/15" consumer options.
iBook must go down market, I didn't say that it should disappear.
Probably right, I think it's still gonna be a while though. Quark is a moving target, at best.
AS for moving the iBook downmarket, it's the only thing to do, unless they want to intro another line of books.
The iMac Fp came out and was way too upmarket. Apple will jabber out edu, but the eMac exists solely because the iMac FP was well beyond the reach of most consumers.
For someone in education, you seem to think that Apple should ignore the educational market.
It's true that the eMac is available outside of education because of the price. It's also true that the 12" iBook is available to education because it's a perfect machine for education (think K-12, and any situation where desks are small).
On topic, I'm sure that Apple isn't a "release partner" because they have no notebooks coming out soon enough to get on board. But the PowerBooks have their GPUs isolated on a daughtercard, so Apple will be easily able to switch between ATi and nVIDIA GPUs, and even to offer them as BTO options in notebooks. How cool would that be?
lemme hen say that the iMac was well beyond the reach of most consumers and schools.
A new lab at my uni is full of 15" flat panels courtesy of DELL. We can afford those. If we could afford Apple FP machines, we would be using those too. Just like they can build a sturdy CRT, they can build a sturdy TFT. Price is theonly reason the eMac exists, and based on that alone, it really shouldn't exist at all, since the iMac could very well drop to eMac price points, just as the competitions TFT offerings have.
On topic, I'm sure that Apple isn't a "release partner" because they have no notebooks coming out soon enough to get on board. But the PowerBooks have their GPUs isolated on a daughtercard, so Apple will be easily able to switch between ATi and nVIDIA GPUs, and even to offer them as BTO options in notebooks. How cool would that be?
Hmmm, would Apple allow such public notice of a new product? That's what got ATI kicked out in the first place. Apple could plan to use this but without publicizing themselves as a "release partner".
Hmmm, would Apple allow such public notice of a new product? That's what got ATI kicked out in the first place. Apple could plan to use this but without publicizing themselves as a "release partner".
That was essentially what I was saying: Since Apple has nothing to unveil right now with the 9600, they aren't on the list.
I've heard whisperings that this might be what is holding up the Aluminum 15" PB.
Looks like those whispers were partly true. I've heard some more recent(less reliable) whispers suggest to me that somewhere around February 2004 is when the 17" PowerBook will move to a Hydrogen-based economy.
Someone else was correct about the fact that Apple would opt for the 64MB version...
Comments
Originally posted by Matsu
Considering the 17 only recently debuted, I think you're waiting until near x-mas time for a 15" replacement.
dont be stupid
It can't be spec'd higher than the 17, and the 17 has only just been shipping for a couple of months.
It can't get faster unless it gets .13u G4's and those won't be ready for a while yet. That's the soonest case, but not the best.
If they're due for 970's (along with the 17) this certainly won't happen untill after MWNY, as the PM's and Xserve will recieve 64 bit parts first.
Either way, we're looking at, AT LEAST, September, and probably later. Closer to x-mas than it is to any time soon.
I never thought my 15" TiGhz would remain at the top of its game for so long--could never justify changing to the AlBook with no rev in processor speed, so here I am!
I would certainly like to see a speed bump in the 15 inch PB, however, going to the Al package, backlit keyboard, FW800, Airport Extreme (with a better antenna), ATI 9600, faster and larger HD, improved LCD, possibly improved battery would make for a very tasty upgrade even if it was stuck at 1GHz.
possibility of 1.25 ghz chips as a choice when the 15in comes out. so basically what i'm trying to say..
12in 867 or 1ghz
15in 1ghz or 1.25
17in 1ghz or 1.25
by summer
i think this is feasable....
m2
When 4X drives are ready (with min 12X CDr speeds) Apple should just drop Combo altogether, but I think this is a ways off yet.
The options should be centered around screen size and price NOT drives.
A 15" model with 12" guts ought to be available for those pros who want screen size but neccessarily more VRAM, DVI, HDD, CPU/L3 etc etc... That's where they have to be most flexible.
What the lineup should look like is this:
12" Superdrive 1799.
15.4" Superdrive 1999. (same spec as 12)
15.4" Superdrive 2499, (same spec as 17)
17" Superdrive 2999.
No Combos (once DVDr gets fast and flexible enough, 4X multi)
The iBooks should move further down market, all combo, all 14.
999, slow leftover G3
1299, faster G4, more RAM, bigger HD
1499, fully optioned, Max RAM, airport included.
Windows laptops have improved by leaps and bounds, especially at the low end. Macs aren't threatened yet, well, actually they are, but they're still competitive. In 9 months, at current prices, they won't be anymore.
If we see G4 iBooks and PPC970 PB's, then that would be different, but laptop prices will go through a dramatic price drop as they become increasing popular with consumers and business alike. It's those market shifts where Apple tends to fall behind (as a segment becomes more affordable)
[EDIT: sorry, read that wrong...SLATED for 10.2.6, whatever]
Originally posted by Matsu
The iBooks should move further down market, all combo, all 14.
Why do away with the 12" iBooks/sub-notebook?
For someone who doesn't need a large laptop and is working with a limited budget, a cheap 12" iBook with a reasonably speced G3 would be far preferable than spending $1700 dollars on the 12" G4.
At any rate, I'm more interested in when the 15" AlBook is coming out, 9600 or not. I've finally got the $$, and a 15" laptop is the right size. Do I really want to buy a TiBook if the AlBook will be released next month? Any REAL insiders have an inkling as to a release date? Much appreesh.
-K
Originally posted by Kabeyun
Regarding the original post, anyone notice that Apple is NOT on the list of launch partners for the ATI Raedon Mobility 9600?
At any rate, I'm more interested in when the 15" AlBook is coming out, 9600 or not. I've finally got the $$, and a 15" laptop is the right size. Do I really want to buy a TiBook if the AlBook will be released next month? Any REAL insiders have an inkling as to a release date? Much appreesh.
-K
Just so you know, release dates are the hardest things for anyone to pin down. They can be changed on a whim at the last minute.
Apple could "bump" the 15" TiBook quietly if they don't have a big upgrade for it, or issue a press release if it's a moderate upgrade. However, they have at least one machine in every line that can boot Mac OS 9. That's the role of the current 15". When they no longer feel any need to offer that functionality (go Quark!) they can bump it to the OS X-only FW800/AirPort Extreme motherboard, and add whatever other goodies they feel like adding.
AS for moving the iBook downmarket, it's the only thing to do, unless they want to intro another line of books.
The iMac Fp came out and was way too upmarket. Apple will jabber out edu, but the eMac exists solely because the iMac FP was well beyond the reach of most consumers.
The iBook isn't beyond their reach, but relative to the wintel competition it's lead is rapidly diminishing. Budget win notebooks used to be a pathetic joke, but they've gottne a lot better in the last year/and a half. Many now are light enough, have much bigger (and equally bright) screens, reasonable weight and batter life and the same combo optical drives.
Surveys of Budget laptop buyers routinely show that these customers value screen size and features (and better "specs") at the expense of ultimate weight and portability or battery life.
While the iBook is good (even now) compared to the Wintel competition, Apple is putting a 300 premium on a 14" screen that the other guy provides as standard (often for less than Apple's 12" price)
If they want to keep selling iBooks in the next 12 months, they will have a CHEAP 14/15" consumer options.
iBook must go down market, I didn't say that it should disappear.
Originally posted by Matsu
Probably right, I think it's still gonna be a while though. Quark is a moving target, at best.
AS for moving the iBook downmarket, it's the only thing to do, unless they want to intro another line of books.
The iMac Fp came out and was way too upmarket. Apple will jabber out edu, but the eMac exists solely because the iMac FP was well beyond the reach of most consumers.
For someone in education, you seem to think that Apple should ignore the educational market.
It's true that the eMac is available outside of education because of the price. It's also true that the 12" iBook is available to education because it's a perfect machine for education (think K-12, and any situation where desks are small).
On topic, I'm sure that Apple isn't a "release partner" because they have no notebooks coming out soon enough to get on board. But the PowerBooks have their GPUs isolated on a daughtercard, so Apple will be easily able to switch between ATi and nVIDIA GPUs, and even to offer them as BTO options in notebooks. How cool would that be?
A new lab at my uni is full of 15" flat panels courtesy of DELL. We can afford those. If we could afford Apple FP machines, we would be using those too. Just like they can build a sturdy CRT, they can build a sturdy TFT. Price is theonly reason the eMac exists, and based on that alone, it really shouldn't exist at all, since the iMac could very well drop to eMac price points, just as the competitions TFT offerings have.
Originally posted by Amorph
On topic, I'm sure that Apple isn't a "release partner" because they have no notebooks coming out soon enough to get on board. But the PowerBooks have their GPUs isolated on a daughtercard, so Apple will be easily able to switch between ATi and nVIDIA GPUs, and even to offer them as BTO options in notebooks. How cool would that be?
Hmmm, would Apple allow such public notice of a new product? That's what got ATI kicked out in the first place. Apple could plan to use this but without publicizing themselves as a "release partner".
Originally posted by neutrino23
Hmmm, would Apple allow such public notice of a new product? That's what got ATI kicked out in the first place. Apple could plan to use this but without publicizing themselves as a "release partner".
That was essentially what I was saying: Since Apple has nothing to unveil right now with the 9600, they aren't on the list.
-K
Originally posted by Existence
I've heard whisperings that this might be what is holding up the Aluminum 15" PB.
Looks like those whispers were partly true.
Someone else was correct about the fact that Apple would opt for the 64MB version...