12" PB to be updated soon?
My earlier thread regarding the possibility of an early update to the 12" PB was locked by Jonathan because:
A. he thought it was mere speculation; and
B. he thought it was not likely because the current 12" PB was only 3 months old.
I know the admins are here to keep order, but they should not censor speculation just because their own oujai board doesn't think that the particular speculation is on target.
So here it is one more time:
Compare the specs and prices of the 14" iBook and the 12" PB. The new 14" iBook is bigger, faster and CHEAPER!!! I know its a G3 and I know that the video card isn't as good, but as a consumer it is a tough choice. Does this signal an upgrade is due for the 12" PB?
1. I think that a 900 G3 is as good if not better than a 867 G4 at non-Altivec (ie. most) applications and the "public" certainly won't see much difference.
2. Even at the same resolution, 14" is bigger. I would rather have a larger screen than a smaller one at the same resolution.
3. There appears to be some debate between the ATI and Nvidia video cards.
The kicker is the iBook is $300 less expensive.
In order to keep the iBook from canabalizing the 12" PB Apple may have to update the PB.
What are your thoughts?
It may be unlikely but no less likely than 6-sided towers or G5 iPods.
If they can speak their minds in New Texas, we should be able to here as well!
A. he thought it was mere speculation; and
B. he thought it was not likely because the current 12" PB was only 3 months old.
I know the admins are here to keep order, but they should not censor speculation just because their own oujai board doesn't think that the particular speculation is on target.
So here it is one more time:
Compare the specs and prices of the 14" iBook and the 12" PB. The new 14" iBook is bigger, faster and CHEAPER!!! I know its a G3 and I know that the video card isn't as good, but as a consumer it is a tough choice. Does this signal an upgrade is due for the 12" PB?
1. I think that a 900 G3 is as good if not better than a 867 G4 at non-Altivec (ie. most) applications and the "public" certainly won't see much difference.
2. Even at the same resolution, 14" is bigger. I would rather have a larger screen than a smaller one at the same resolution.
3. There appears to be some debate between the ATI and Nvidia video cards.
The kicker is the iBook is $300 less expensive.
In order to keep the iBook from canabalizing the 12" PB Apple may have to update the PB.
What are your thoughts?
It may be unlikely but no less likely than 6-sided towers or G5 iPods.
If they can speak their minds in New Texas, we should be able to here as well!
Comments
Screen size does matter for some as does price. For some less in the know about processors, a G3 v. G4 might not mean as much as clock speed. That's why I think that Apple may be working on some interim upgrade to the PB, even if it's just to take the clock up to 1 Ghz.
Originally posted by fatmac84
True, but if you compare the 12" PB w/o the Superdrive to the 14" iBook, the iBook has a faster clock speed (but a G3), a larger screen and is $300 less expensive.
Screen size does matter for some as does price. For some less in the know about processors, a G3 v. G4 might not mean as much as clock speed. That's why I think that Apple may be working on some interim upgrade to the PB, even if it's just to take the clock up to 1 Ghz.
Nah. Not for a bit.
I bought a 12" PB when it first came out. Looked at the iBook. Determined that screen and CPU weren't the issue for me. It was all of the other features of the 12" that mattered - fit, overall speed, keyboard quality (amazing), monitor spanning, and on and on. There's actually a lot distinguishing the two products.
Out of a C|Net Article from April 4:
http://news.com.com/2100-1042-995560.html
The average price for a desktop PC sold at retail in the United States declined to $717 in February. Meanwhile, the average price of a notebook slipped to $1,311, the company[NPD Techworld] said Friday.
The $1,311 average price (even though this is for the whole PC segment, I know Apple buyers tend to be able to afford a little more) is right in line with the $1299 iBook, which IMO is the sweet spot for consumer notebooks. Those who want the cheap but full-featured notebbok (although lacking a touch in power) will get the iBook. Those who know the differences between iBook/PB will choose the PB, and if they know the differences I highly doubt they're the avg consumer.
The 12" PB has several feature differences- G4, Built-in bluetooth, optional superdrive, optional airport extreme, DDR memory. There's enough differentiation and options for the market segment that the 12" PB is targeting, so it will not undergo cannibalization as far as I see it. Besides, I think Apple has already put themselves in a bit of a strange position with their PB releases, I'm honestly not completely sure how they'll approach PB revisions. If anything, the way their PB intros have been over the last 6 months will cause them more problems than the new iBook as far as when/how much to upgrade the entire PB line.
A. he thought it was mere speculation
What you're saying IS more speculation, unless you happen to have inside information, which you haven't lead us to believe.
B. he thought it was not likely because the current 12" PB was only 3 months old.
Sounds unlikely to me as well
Compare the specs and prices of the 14" iBook and the 12" PB. The new 14" iBook is bigger, faster and CHEAPER!!!
Two out of three on that one. The iBook is not faster. I could walk a few blocks down the road to the tech store and prove it to myself one more time, but I don't need to. I could readread the benchmarks and real-world performance tests that show the iBook getting slaughtered. I could launch an application and see a dock icon still bouncing on an iBook while the PowerBook is ready to go. I can do these infinitely many times, and the iBook won't come out on top.
Does this signal an upgrade is due for the 12" PB?
Not yet.
1. I think that a 900 G3 is as good if not better than a 867 G4 at non-Altivec (ie. most) applications and the "public" certainly won't see much difference.
You can think so, but you won't find it to be true in real world performance.
2. Even at the same resolution, 14" is bigger. I would rather have a larger screen than a smaller one at the same resolution.
I would rather have a smaller package and pay less, since I'm getting tha same screen res. Different strokes for different folks. This is just a matter of preference.
3. There appears to be some debate between the ATI and Nvidia video cards.
The PowerBook needs a better video card, but it still outperforms the iBook. Just because it needs a new VPU doesn't mean we'll see an upgrade anytime soon.
The kicker is the iBook is $300 less expensive.
You pay less, you get less.
In order to keep the iBook from canabalizing the 12" PB Apple may have to update the PB.
The 12" PB is still a success, and I think it's safe to say that if people have an interest in it, they know the advantages it has over the iBook. If they want more performance, Airport Extreme, Superdrive, altivec, and bluetooth, they'll go with the PowerBook. There are enough performance and feature advantages to differentiate the 12" PowerBook from the iBook. I think that it's unlikely that we'll see an update before the average 5-7 month period.
Of course if you're comparing a 12" iBook to 12" PB the price differential is $500!
Yes, but that doesn't support the argument that we'll see a 12" PB update any sooner than we'd usually expect. I'd still rather spend the extra $500 for better performance and features and such.
Originally posted by fatmac84
Of course if you're comparing a 12" iBook to 12" PB the price differential is $500!
Or, the differential is a long list of features. These aren't fungible items. The difference between a 4 door Hyundai and a 4 door Mercedes is $25,000, that doesn't infer that the Mercedes is out of market, rather that the analysis is fatally flawed.
If I were buying a laptop today, I'd still buy the 12" PB. The iBook isn't even close to meeting my needs.
Just a FYI...
Oh, and if you think there's anything less than a yawning chasm between a 12" PowerBook and a 12" iBook, you can't have used either one of them, even with this week's speed-bump.
I think that a 900 G3 is as good if not better than a 867 G4 at non-Altivec (ie. most) applications and the "public" certainly won't see much difference.
The Powerbook also has a 33% faster bus, on top of having Altivec & DDR memory (yeah, it probably doesn't mean a hell of a lot for the performance of the processor per se, but the additional bandwidth reduces contention with other devices in the machine). I think that would overshadow a paltry 4% difference in clock speed.
Given how pervasive Altivec enhancements are throughout OS X (especially Quartz), I wouldn't imagine there are a whole lot of apps that perform faster on the iBook than the Powerbook.
If you use photoshop, iMovie/Photo, and VPC, the iBook just doesn't cut it. It is a good budget second portable mac. If I had a desktop already, I would probably buy an iBook instead of a powerbook. The 12" powerbook is intriguing because it's a subnote (and it is compared to the average "note") that can double as a desktop replacement.
But feature-wise the iBook is comparable or better in some areas and is cheaper. To justify the higher price, the PB should be as good if not better than the iBook in all areas, otherwise some people are going to select the iBook and cost Apple $$$.
Are you not reading the posts in reply to yours? The PB has plenty of features to distinguish it from the iBook. The iBook does not have 'better' features. It has 'consumer' features, while the PB has 'pro' features. It's already been shown that PB sales are strong, because it IS better than the iBook in all areas.
Originally posted by fatmac84
I agree that the PB is designed to be a higher end machine. But feature-wise the iBook is comparable or better in some areas and is cheaper. To justify the higher price, the PB should be as good if not better than the iBook in all areas, otherwise some people are going to select the iBook and cost Apple $$$. Worse yet, others will be confused as to which product to buy and won't buy either for some time. That is why the PB likely will be upgraded sooner rather than later.
Your point doesn't hold. The iBook only had a 100Mhz bump (10 GB hd bump isn't too much of an issue to consumers) , so theoretically the 800 MHz iBook should've been extremely competitive with the 867 MHz Powerbook from the start if your logic is valid. If that's the case, then why did the 12" PB sell 82,000 units (much, much better than I expected) last quarter, and the iBook unit sales fall last quarter? They're easily targeted at different markets, and I'm not sure if you realize this or not. The iBook is definitely not better in screen size. If you have bad vision I guess you could see as the 14" as better for larger icons and text and such, but in reality it has zero extra screen real estate, is physically larger and adds another pound to the travel weight, a big con for many people. I think the biggest logic flaw is that you're trying to blanket your opinion of the iBook/PB difference to the whole target market/demographic for the iBook and PB, which for a few consumers may hold true, but doesn't work for the majority.
Also, I agree with the rest of the posts concerning the G3/G4 deal between the two.
Are you not reading the posts in reply to yours? The PB has plenty of features to distinguish it from the iBook. The iBook does not have 'better' features. It has 'consumer' features, while the PB has 'pro' features. It's already been shown that PB sales are strong, because it IS better than the iBook in all areas.
The 12" PB was better than the old iBook in every respect. Now on certain features that is not true. My point is that the new iBook is pushing the PB in some areas and that this may signal a quicker upgrade for the PB.
You know, whining that your thread got locked and then starting it afresh is usually a pretty good way to upset the mods.
Look I think the mods serve an important purpose in keeping things on topic and reasonably clean. But they should not be the thought police shutting down those threads they belive to be unlikely, poorly reasoned or even insipid. Let the free market of ideas sort all that out. Many of you (most probably) disagree with my premise, but it has generated a fair amount of traffic and response in the brief time it has lived so far. Visionaries (not that I'm one) often are believed to be fools by authority and we shouldn't allow ourselves to be policed to such a degree that unpopular views cannot be aired.
There is not even a faint shred of evidence. The only bit of proof you can find is that the iBook now has a 33MHz clock advantage while you ignore all the additional benefits the PB has. I am huge iBook fan but I do not begin to claim that it is superior to the powerbook. The powerbook sales have been strong and I do not expect that to change much. The fact that iBook sales went down seems proof enough that there is a segment of people who dig the iBook form factor but desired powerbook power. I'd love to see an update to the 12" PB and I am sure we will....in about 3~4 months.
Originally posted by FrostyMMB
Are you not reading the posts in reply to yours?
Certainly there's a lack of information-absorption going on...
fatmac84, don't go pulling the "aargh, I'm being oppressed" card: we're having a reasoned argument here, not some David vs Goliath fight, and the simple fact that every other poster in this thread believes that you're proceeding from a couple of false presumptions should be a bit of a giveaway.
If it looks like kaka, smells like kaka and has flies buzzing round it, we may just have to entertain the notion that what we are looking at is indeed faecal matter.
Still, there's none so blind as those that will not see...