EU to settle Apple Pay NFC probe after Apple's concessions

Posted:
in iPhone

The European Union has reportedly accepted a series of concessions that Apple has made over allowing third-party rivals access to its hardware NFC systems at the core of Apple Pay.

Apple's iPhone NFC to open to third-party devs post-EU probe
Apple's iPhone NFC to open to third-party devs post-EU probe



In January 2024, it was reported that Apple had agreed to allow rivals in the European Union to use its Near Field Communications chips in the iPhone. The Financial Times says that after several months, the EU is now about to accept Apple's concessions, and so conclude an investigation that could have resulted in another fine.

Three unspecified sources say that officials from the EU have been testing Apple's measures. They also report that Apple has offered to keep this access available for a decade.

It's not clear how that timescale fits with the EU's Digital Markets Act which contains no such schedule of compliance. Conceivably this is why the sources also say that the EU may yet have outstanding issues to be settled.

There are, though, also technical details that Apple is working on. Nonetheless, it's expected that a formal settlement is likely in the next few weeks.

The issues over access to the NFC are part of the EU's Digital Markets Act (DMA). While the DMA is better known for forcing Apple to allow third-party rival app stores in the EU, overall it is concerned with ensuring fair competition between companies.

Originally, Apple reserved its NFC chips for its own Apple Pay services, but has been required to allow rivals access because of the DMA. Apple's agreement to open up access has been criticized, however, for at least initially failing to include the NFC capability of the Apple Watch.

The result of this is that within the EU, third-party companies will be able to replace Apple Wallet with their own systems. This is exactly what London-based firm Curve says it is ready to do, once the EU settlement is made.

Separately, the EU is now expected to conduct investigations over Apple's alleged non-compliance with the Digital Markets Act's (DMA) requirements regarding rival app stores.



Read on AppleInsider

«13

Comments

  • Reply 1 of 44
    hammeroftruthhammeroftruth Posts: 1,336member
    That’s going to be a nice mix. An Apple unregulated 3rd party App Store with unauthorized banking apps that can use Apple’s NFC.

    I can see Apple getting blamed for this. 
    strongyjas99williamlondonteejay2012watto_cobra
  • Reply 2 of 44
    Apple should just. let it crash and burn.

    And them make a detailed video campaign about how the EU is taking away users freedom to choose a platform that is closed and secure.
    strongyjas99teejay2012watto_cobra
  • Reply 3 of 44
    I wish the chips they tag pets with were compatible with the NFC readers used in cellphones so if someone comes across an animal that looks like a lost pet they could easily check instead of having to take the animal to the vet.
    jas99VictorMortimerCrossPlatformFroggerwilliamlondonroundaboutnowteejay2012watto_cobra
  • Reply 4 of 44
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 7,902member
    Apple should just. let it crash and burn.

    And them make a detailed video campaign about how the EU is taking away users freedom to choose a platform that is closed and secure.
    I really wish someone would survey this and plunk the truth on the table. 

    I'll set out my stalk. 

    IMO, virtually no iOS user is remotely aware of the limitations Apple imposes on them. 

    They are unaware of the wallet/NFC limitations. 

    Unaware of the Web Kit restrictions. 

    Unaware of the App Store restrictions. Both in terms of content and actual stores. 

    Unaware of the commissions. 

    Unaware of the harm that is being caused to them.

    That is what 'closed and secure' means, does it not? 

    Now. Why not be up front on all this? Why not explain these impositions, simply and clearly, and ask consumers to sign off on them prior to purchase?

    I think you will see a massive change of heart from these people and of course that's why Apple would never ever be up front about it and would rather comply with the EU stance. Even if signing off on the restrictions might conceivably get them off many an anti-trust hook. 
    VictorMortimerCrossPlatformFroggerxyzzy-xxxgatorguyspheric
  • Reply 5 of 44
    tmaytmay Posts: 6,441member
    avon b7 said:
    Apple should just. let it crash and burn.

    And them make a detailed video campaign about how the EU is taking away users freedom to choose a platform that is closed and secure.
    I really wish someone would survey this and plunk the truth on the table. 

    I'll set out my stalk. 

    IMO, virtually no iOS user is remotely aware of the limitations Apple imposes on them. 

    They are unaware of the wallet/NFC limitations. 

    Unaware of the Web Kit restrictions. 

    Unaware of the App Store restrictions. Both in terms of content and actual stores. 

    Unaware of the commissions. 

    Unaware of the harm that is being caused to them.

    That is what 'closed and secure' means, does it not? 

    Now. Why not be up front on all this? Why not explain these impositions, simply and clearly, and ask consumers to sign off on them prior to purchase?

    I think you will see a massive change of heart from these people and of course that's why Apple would never ever be up front about it and would rather comply with the EU stance. Even if signing off on the restrictions might conceivably get them off many an anti-trust hook. 
    For a fact, most iPhone users are very happy with their choice, don't have any issues of note, and frankly, don't fucking care about what you care about. Certainly, the EU is less concerned about security, than Apple is.

    Still, thanks for another round of "EU 'splaining". Does anyone here have difficulty understanding why the EU is always on the "back foot" when it comes to competitive technology? Could it be that the EU is a shitty business and investment environment, more concerned about balance between EU states than actual competitiveness?
    edited June 18 jas99williamlondonJaiOh81teejay2012watto_cobra
  • Reply 6 of 44
    tmay said:

    For a fact, most iPhone users are very happy with their choice, don't have any issues of note, and frankly, don't fucking care about what you care about.
    Then they won't care when regulations fix it for those of us who do.

    The EU cares about security at least as much as Apple does.  They also care about Apple's abuse of their monopoly on iDevice app distribution, and their monopoly on access to the NFC hardware in iDevices.  And despite Apple's LIES, those things are not mutually exclusive.
    CrossPlatformFroggerspheric
  • Reply 7 of 44
    lam92103lam92103 Posts: 140member
    i don't see the issue in this at all. Android has had it since forever
    VictorMortimerwilliamlondon
  • Reply 8 of 44
    tmaytmay Posts: 6,441member
    tmay said:

    For a fact, most iPhone users are very happy with their choice, don't have any issues of note, and frankly, don't fucking care about what you care about.
    Then they won't care when regulations fix it for those of us who do.

    The EU cares about security at least as much as Apple does.  They also care about Apple's abuse of their monopoly on iDevice app distribution, and their monopoly on access to the NFC hardware in iDevices.  And despite Apple's LIES, those things are not mutually exclusive.
    So, the EU cares, but do consumers? Not so much.
    williamlondonJaiOh81watto_cobra
  • Reply 9 of 44
    MesonMeson Posts: 11member
    Apple should just. let it crash and burn.

    And them make a detailed video campaign about how the EU is taking away users freedom to choose a platform that is closed and secure.
    I agree!! Apple has always been great at propaganda!
    edited June 18 VictorMortimerwilliamlondon
  • Reply 10 of 44
    chasmchasm Posts: 3,427member
    As long as the EC continues to illegally favour Europe-based Spotify over a real “underdog” competitor like Apple Music, I will continue to believe their judgements are very biased.

    That said, I have no problems with alternative App Stores that comply with privacy and security mandates, nor with alternative wallets that comply similarly. I expect the EU will be similarly harsh with Curve, since they are based in a country that left the EU. The minute some EU-based country comes up with an alternative wallet for iOS, I expect to see a lot of judgements in their favour.

    In the case of the EU’s biased rulings favouring Spotify, I hope that Apple takes that decision to court, where they would likely win.
    tmaywilliamlondonJaiOh81doc_powellteejay2012dewmewatto_cobra
  • Reply 11 of 44
    It’s hard to see how consumers benefit from allowing banks to set up their own wallets. It is, however, easy to see how banks benefit.

    It will be interesting to look at Curve’s wallet. Can I put concert tickets, ID cards, boarding passes and other non-financial items into their wallet? If so, will they properly safeguard my information? If not, do I need to use multiple wallets and how do I choose between them?

    For all of this extra headache, I get ???? benefits? Still waiting to hear on that.
    tmayJaiOh81watto_cobra
  • Reply 12 of 44
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 7,902member
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    Apple should just. let it crash and burn.

    And them make a detailed video campaign about how the EU is taking away users freedom to choose a platform that is closed and secure.
    I really wish someone would survey this and plunk the truth on the table. 

    I'll set out my stalk. 

    IMO, virtually no iOS user is remotely aware of the limitations Apple imposes on them. 

    They are unaware of the wallet/NFC limitations. 

    Unaware of the Web Kit restrictions. 

    Unaware of the App Store restrictions. Both in terms of content and actual stores. 

    Unaware of the commissions. 

    Unaware of the harm that is being caused to them.

    That is what 'closed and secure' means, does it not? 

    Now. Why not be up front on all this? Why not explain these impositions, simply and clearly, and ask consumers to sign off on them prior to purchase?

    I think you will see a massive change of heart from these people and of course that's why Apple would never ever be up front about it and would rather comply with the EU stance. Even if signing off on the restrictions might conceivably get them off many an anti-trust hook. 
    For a fact, most iPhone users are very happy with their choice, don't have any issues of note, and frankly, don't fucking care about what you care about. Certainly, the EU is less concerned about security, than Apple is.

    Still, thanks for another round of "EU 'splaining". Does anyone here have difficulty understanding why the EU is always on the "back foot" when it comes to competitive technology? Could it be that the EU is a shitty business and investment environment, more concerned about balance between EU states than actual competitiveness?
    The question isn't about happiness. 

    The question is about knowledge of business practices. 

    If those happy users knew even the basics of Apple's control, most would be quite, ehem, unhappy. That's how I see it and I have yet to come across any iOS who is aware of the facts. 
    spheric
  • Reply 13 of 44
    tmaytmay Posts: 6,441member
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    Apple should just. let it crash and burn.

    And them make a detailed video campaign about how the EU is taking away users freedom to choose a platform that is closed and secure.
    I really wish someone would survey this and plunk the truth on the table. 

    I'll set out my stalk. 

    IMO, virtually no iOS user is remotely aware of the limitations Apple imposes on them. 

    They are unaware of the wallet/NFC limitations. 

    Unaware of the Web Kit restrictions. 

    Unaware of the App Store restrictions. Both in terms of content and actual stores. 

    Unaware of the commissions. 

    Unaware of the harm that is being caused to them.

    That is what 'closed and secure' means, does it not? 

    Now. Why not be up front on all this? Why not explain these impositions, simply and clearly, and ask consumers to sign off on them prior to purchase?

    I think you will see a massive change of heart from these people and of course that's why Apple would never ever be up front about it and would rather comply with the EU stance. Even if signing off on the restrictions might conceivably get them off many an anti-trust hook. 
    For a fact, most iPhone users are very happy with their choice, don't have any issues of note, and frankly, don't fucking care about what you care about. Certainly, the EU is less concerned about security, than Apple is.

    Still, thanks for another round of "EU 'splaining". Does anyone here have difficulty understanding why the EU is always on the "back foot" when it comes to competitive technology? Could it be that the EU is a shitty business and investment environment, more concerned about balance between EU states than actual competitiveness?
    The question isn't about happiness. 

    The question is about knowledge of business practices. 

    If those happy users knew even the basics of Apple's control, most would be quite, ehem, unhappy. That's how I see it and I have yet to come across any iOS who is aware of the facts. 
    Really? 

    "most would be, quite, ehem, unhappy"

    Do you have any evidence to support that, or is this just another projection of your personal bias?

    williamlondonJaiOh81watto_cobra
  • Reply 14 of 44
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 7,902member
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    Apple should just. let it crash and burn.

    And them make a detailed video campaign about how the EU is taking away users freedom to choose a platform that is closed and secure.
    I really wish someone would survey this and plunk the truth on the table. 

    I'll set out my stalk. 

    IMO, virtually no iOS user is remotely aware of the limitations Apple imposes on them. 

    They are unaware of the wallet/NFC limitations. 

    Unaware of the Web Kit restrictions. 

    Unaware of the App Store restrictions. Both in terms of content and actual stores. 

    Unaware of the commissions. 

    Unaware of the harm that is being caused to them.

    That is what 'closed and secure' means, does it not? 

    Now. Why not be up front on all this? Why not explain these impositions, simply and clearly, and ask consumers to sign off on them prior to purchase?

    I think you will see a massive change of heart from these people and of course that's why Apple would never ever be up front about it and would rather comply with the EU stance. Even if signing off on the restrictions might conceivably get them off many an anti-trust hook. 
    For a fact, most iPhone users are very happy with their choice, don't have any issues of note, and frankly, don't fucking care about what you care about. Certainly, the EU is less concerned about security, than Apple is.

    Still, thanks for another round of "EU 'splaining". Does anyone here have difficulty understanding why the EU is always on the "back foot" when it comes to competitive technology? Could it be that the EU is a shitty business and investment environment, more concerned about balance between EU states than actual competitiveness?
    The question isn't about happiness. 

    The question is about knowledge of business practices. 

    If those happy users knew even the basics of Apple's control, most would be quite, ehem, unhappy. That's how I see it and I have yet to come across any iOS who is aware of the facts. 
    Really? 

    "most would be, quite, ehem, unhappy"

    Do you have any evidence to support that, or is this just another projection of your personal bias?

    Are you being serious? 

    Most of this thread contains opinions!

    Did you even bother to read what I said at the outset? About a survey and everything?

    Why do you think I wrote that? Could evidence actually have something to do with it? 

    How about you put some evidence on the table to support your 'bias'?


  • Reply 15 of 44
    tmaytmay Posts: 6,441member
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    Apple should just. let it crash and burn.

    And them make a detailed video campaign about how the EU is taking away users freedom to choose a platform that is closed and secure.
    I really wish someone would survey this and plunk the truth on the table. 

    I'll set out my stalk. 

    IMO, virtually no iOS user is remotely aware of the limitations Apple imposes on them. 

    They are unaware of the wallet/NFC limitations. 

    Unaware of the Web Kit restrictions. 

    Unaware of the App Store restrictions. Both in terms of content and actual stores. 

    Unaware of the commissions. 

    Unaware of the harm that is being caused to them.

    That is what 'closed and secure' means, does it not? 

    Now. Why not be up front on all this? Why not explain these impositions, simply and clearly, and ask consumers to sign off on them prior to purchase?

    I think you will see a massive change of heart from these people and of course that's why Apple would never ever be up front about it and would rather comply with the EU stance. Even if signing off on the restrictions might conceivably get them off many an anti-trust hook. 
    For a fact, most iPhone users are very happy with their choice, don't have any issues of note, and frankly, don't fucking care about what you care about. Certainly, the EU is less concerned about security, than Apple is.

    Still, thanks for another round of "EU 'splaining". Does anyone here have difficulty understanding why the EU is always on the "back foot" when it comes to competitive technology? Could it be that the EU is a shitty business and investment environment, more concerned about balance between EU states than actual competitiveness?
    The question isn't about happiness. 

    The question is about knowledge of business practices. 

    If those happy users knew even the basics of Apple's control, most would be quite, ehem, unhappy. That's how I see it and I have yet to come across any iOS who is aware of the facts. 
    Really? 

    "most would be, quite, ehem, unhappy"

    Do you have any evidence to support that, or is this just another projection of your personal bias?

    Are you being serious? 

    Most of this thread contains opinions!

    Did you even bother to read what I said at the outset? About a survey and everything?

    Why do you think I wrote that? Could evidence actually have something to do with it? 

    How about you put some evidence on the table to support your 'bias'?


    My "bias" will be easily proven when, after all of this, "most" Apple iPhone users continue as is. The only question is what Apple's actual revenue numbers show.

    So, if a survey is actually generated, and it shows that "most" Apple iPhone users are happy with the status quo, will you then bow out, or will you keep arguing that these users need to be "reeducated"?

    Was a consumer survey ever done by the EU, or was this always about developers and financial institutions?
    edited June 18 williamlondonJaiOh81watto_cobra
  • Reply 16 of 44
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 7,902member
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    Apple should just. let it crash and burn.

    And them make a detailed video campaign about how the EU is taking away users freedom to choose a platform that is closed and secure.
    I really wish someone would survey this and plunk the truth on the table. 

    I'll set out my stalk. 

    IMO, virtually no iOS user is remotely aware of the limitations Apple imposes on them. 

    They are unaware of the wallet/NFC limitations. 

    Unaware of the Web Kit restrictions. 

    Unaware of the App Store restrictions. Both in terms of content and actual stores. 

    Unaware of the commissions. 

    Unaware of the harm that is being caused to them.

    That is what 'closed and secure' means, does it not? 

    Now. Why not be up front on all this? Why not explain these impositions, simply and clearly, and ask consumers to sign off on them prior to purchase?

    I think you will see a massive change of heart from these people and of course that's why Apple would never ever be up front about it and would rather comply with the EU stance. Even if signing off on the restrictions might conceivably get them off many an anti-trust hook. 
    For a fact, most iPhone users are very happy with their choice, don't have any issues of note, and frankly, don't fucking care about what you care about. Certainly, the EU is less concerned about security, than Apple is.

    Still, thanks for another round of "EU 'splaining". Does anyone here have difficulty understanding why the EU is always on the "back foot" when it comes to competitive technology? Could it be that the EU is a shitty business and investment environment, more concerned about balance between EU states than actual competitiveness?
    The question isn't about happiness. 

    The question is about knowledge of business practices. 

    If those happy users knew even the basics of Apple's control, most would be quite, ehem, unhappy. That's how I see it and I have yet to come across any iOS who is aware of the facts. 
    Really? 

    "most would be, quite, ehem, unhappy"

    Do you have any evidence to support that, or is this just another projection of your personal bias?

    Are you being serious? 

    Most of this thread contains opinions!

    Did you even bother to read what I said at the outset? About a survey and everything?

    Why do you think I wrote that? Could evidence actually have something to do with it? 

    How about you put some evidence on the table to support your 'bias'?


    My "bias" will be easily proven when, after all of this, "most" Apple iPhone users continue as is. The only question is what Apple's actual revenue numbers show.

    So, if a survey is actually generated, and it shows that "most" Apple iPhone users are happy with the status quo, will you then bow out, or will you keep arguing that these users need to be "reeducated"?

    Was a consumer survey ever done by the EU, or was this always about developers and financial institutions?
    So it's clear you didn't even read what I said previously. 

    Your bias will not be 'proven' by any stretch of the imagination if users 'continue as is'. 

    Read what I said. 

    The EU process includes consultation with industry (yes, Apple participated too) and surveys with the general public and people are also free to contribute there opinions but the surveys were not on what we are talking about here: the assumption that people buy iPhones knowing full well the limitations and accepting them in exchange for 'security and privacy'. 

    Why do you think I said a specific survey should be carried out? 

    spheric
  • Reply 17 of 44
    tmaytmay Posts: 6,441member
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    Apple should just. let it crash and burn.

    And them make a detailed video campaign about how the EU is taking away users freedom to choose a platform that is closed and secure.
    I really wish someone would survey this and plunk the truth on the table. 

    I'll set out my stalk. 

    IMO, virtually no iOS user is remotely aware of the limitations Apple imposes on them. 

    They are unaware of the wallet/NFC limitations. 

    Unaware of the Web Kit restrictions. 

    Unaware of the App Store restrictions. Both in terms of content and actual stores. 

    Unaware of the commissions. 

    Unaware of the harm that is being caused to them.

    That is what 'closed and secure' means, does it not? 

    Now. Why not be up front on all this? Why not explain these impositions, simply and clearly, and ask consumers to sign off on them prior to purchase?

    I think you will see a massive change of heart from these people and of course that's why Apple would never ever be up front about it and would rather comply with the EU stance. Even if signing off on the restrictions might conceivably get them off many an anti-trust hook. 
    For a fact, most iPhone users are very happy with their choice, don't have any issues of note, and frankly, don't fucking care about what you care about. Certainly, the EU is less concerned about security, than Apple is.

    Still, thanks for another round of "EU 'splaining". Does anyone here have difficulty understanding why the EU is always on the "back foot" when it comes to competitive technology? Could it be that the EU is a shitty business and investment environment, more concerned about balance between EU states than actual competitiveness?
    The question isn't about happiness. 

    The question is about knowledge of business practices. 

    If those happy users knew even the basics of Apple's control, most would be quite, ehem, unhappy. That's how I see it and I have yet to come across any iOS who is aware of the facts. 
    Really? 

    "most would be, quite, ehem, unhappy"

    Do you have any evidence to support that, or is this just another projection of your personal bias?

    Are you being serious? 

    Most of this thread contains opinions!

    Did you even bother to read what I said at the outset? About a survey and everything?

    Why do you think I wrote that? Could evidence actually have something to do with it? 

    How about you put some evidence on the table to support your 'bias'?


    My "bias" will be easily proven when, after all of this, "most" Apple iPhone users continue as is. The only question is what Apple's actual revenue numbers show.

    So, if a survey is actually generated, and it shows that "most" Apple iPhone users are happy with the status quo, will you then bow out, or will you keep arguing that these users need to be "reeducated"?

    Was a consumer survey ever done by the EU, or was this always about developers and financial institutions?
    So it's clear you didn't even read what I said previously. 

    Your bias will not be 'proven' by any stretch of the imagination if users 'continue as is'. 

    Read what I said. 

    The EU process includes consultation with industry (yes, Apple participated too) and surveys with the general public and people are also free to contribute there opinions but the surveys were not on what we are talking about here: the assumption that people buy iPhones knowing full well the limitations and accepting them in exchange for 'security and privacy'. 

    Why do you think I said a specific survey should be carried out? 

    So, the EU really doesn't have an understanding about the consumer, nor did they attempt to gain that understanding, which makes sense, because the GMA legislation isn't really about the consumer anyway.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 18 of 44
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 7,902member
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    Apple should just. let it crash and burn.

    And them make a detailed video campaign about how the EU is taking away users freedom to choose a platform that is closed and secure.
    I really wish someone would survey this and plunk the truth on the table. 

    I'll set out my stalk. 

    IMO, virtually no iOS user is remotely aware of the limitations Apple imposes on them. 

    They are unaware of the wallet/NFC limitations. 

    Unaware of the Web Kit restrictions. 

    Unaware of the App Store restrictions. Both in terms of content and actual stores. 

    Unaware of the commissions. 

    Unaware of the harm that is being caused to them.

    That is what 'closed and secure' means, does it not? 

    Now. Why not be up front on all this? Why not explain these impositions, simply and clearly, and ask consumers to sign off on them prior to purchase?

    I think you will see a massive change of heart from these people and of course that's why Apple would never ever be up front about it and would rather comply with the EU stance. Even if signing off on the restrictions might conceivably get them off many an anti-trust hook. 
    For a fact, most iPhone users are very happy with their choice, don't have any issues of note, and frankly, don't fucking care about what you care about. Certainly, the EU is less concerned about security, than Apple is.

    Still, thanks for another round of "EU 'splaining". Does anyone here have difficulty understanding why the EU is always on the "back foot" when it comes to competitive technology? Could it be that the EU is a shitty business and investment environment, more concerned about balance between EU states than actual competitiveness?
    The question isn't about happiness. 

    The question is about knowledge of business practices. 

    If those happy users knew even the basics of Apple's control, most would be quite, ehem, unhappy. That's how I see it and I have yet to come across any iOS who is aware of the facts. 
    Really? 

    "most would be, quite, ehem, unhappy"

    Do you have any evidence to support that, or is this just another projection of your personal bias?

    Are you being serious? 

    Most of this thread contains opinions!

    Did you even bother to read what I said at the outset? About a survey and everything?

    Why do you think I wrote that? Could evidence actually have something to do with it? 

    How about you put some evidence on the table to support your 'bias'?


    My "bias" will be easily proven when, after all of this, "most" Apple iPhone users continue as is. The only question is what Apple's actual revenue numbers show.

    So, if a survey is actually generated, and it shows that "most" Apple iPhone users are happy with the status quo, will you then bow out, or will you keep arguing that these users need to be "reeducated"?

    Was a consumer survey ever done by the EU, or was this always about developers and financial institutions?
    So it's clear you didn't even read what I said previously. 

    Your bias will not be 'proven' by any stretch of the imagination if users 'continue as is'. 

    Read what I said. 

    The EU process includes consultation with industry (yes, Apple participated too) and surveys with the general public and people are also free to contribute there opinions but the surveys were not on what we are talking about here: the assumption that people buy iPhones knowing full well the limitations and accepting them in exchange for 'security and privacy'. 

    Why do you think I said a specific survey should be carried out? 

    So, the EU really doesn't have an understanding about the consumer, nor did they attempt to gain that understanding, which makes sense, because the GMA legislation isn't really about the consumer anyway.
    Not at all, and the EU really does understand consumer needs. Is there any other bloc on the planet that is more 'pro consumer' than the EU?

    The DMA/DSA are there to level the playing field in the digital age. Please take a brief look at the opening paragraphs of the supporting text to the legislation. 
    muthuk_vanalingamspheric
  • Reply 19 of 44
    tmaytmay Posts: 6,441member
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    Apple should just. let it crash and burn.

    And them make a detailed video campaign about how the EU is taking away users freedom to choose a platform that is closed and secure.
    I really wish someone would survey this and plunk the truth on the table. 

    I'll set out my stalk. 

    IMO, virtually no iOS user is remotely aware of the limitations Apple imposes on them. 

    They are unaware of the wallet/NFC limitations. 

    Unaware of the Web Kit restrictions. 

    Unaware of the App Store restrictions. Both in terms of content and actual stores. 

    Unaware of the commissions. 

    Unaware of the harm that is being caused to them.

    That is what 'closed and secure' means, does it not? 

    Now. Why not be up front on all this? Why not explain these impositions, simply and clearly, and ask consumers to sign off on them prior to purchase?

    I think you will see a massive change of heart from these people and of course that's why Apple would never ever be up front about it and would rather comply with the EU stance. Even if signing off on the restrictions might conceivably get them off many an anti-trust hook. 
    For a fact, most iPhone users are very happy with their choice, don't have any issues of note, and frankly, don't fucking care about what you care about. Certainly, the EU is less concerned about security, than Apple is.

    Still, thanks for another round of "EU 'splaining". Does anyone here have difficulty understanding why the EU is always on the "back foot" when it comes to competitive technology? Could it be that the EU is a shitty business and investment environment, more concerned about balance between EU states than actual competitiveness?
    The question isn't about happiness. 

    The question is about knowledge of business practices. 

    If those happy users knew even the basics of Apple's control, most would be quite, ehem, unhappy. That's how I see it and I have yet to come across any iOS who is aware of the facts. 
    Really? 

    "most would be, quite, ehem, unhappy"

    Do you have any evidence to support that, or is this just another projection of your personal bias?

    Are you being serious? 

    Most of this thread contains opinions!

    Did you even bother to read what I said at the outset? About a survey and everything?

    Why do you think I wrote that? Could evidence actually have something to do with it? 

    How about you put some evidence on the table to support your 'bias'?


    My "bias" will be easily proven when, after all of this, "most" Apple iPhone users continue as is. The only question is what Apple's actual revenue numbers show.

    So, if a survey is actually generated, and it shows that "most" Apple iPhone users are happy with the status quo, will you then bow out, or will you keep arguing that these users need to be "reeducated"?

    Was a consumer survey ever done by the EU, or was this always about developers and financial institutions?
    So it's clear you didn't even read what I said previously. 

    Your bias will not be 'proven' by any stretch of the imagination if users 'continue as is'. 

    Read what I said. 

    The EU process includes consultation with industry (yes, Apple participated too) and surveys with the general public and people are also free to contribute there opinions but the surveys were not on what we are talking about here: the assumption that people buy iPhones knowing full well the limitations and accepting them in exchange for 'security and privacy'. 

    Why do you think I said a specific survey should be carried out? 

    So, the EU really doesn't have an understanding about the consumer, nor did they attempt to gain that understanding, which makes sense, because the GMA legislation isn't really about the consumer anyway.
    Not at all, and the EU really does understand consumer needs. Is there any other bloc on the planet that is more 'pro consumer' than the EU?

    The DMA/DSA are there to level the playing field in the digital age. Please take a brief look at the opening paragraphs of the supporting text to the legislation. 
    If the EU is actually consumer centric, then I can see where they would be resistant to investment in technology and industry that we in the U.S. take for granted. 

    It's obvious that the EU can't compete in technology, certainly not for the investment necessary, though the Baltic countries do pretty well, but sure, credit for looking after their "consumers", it that is in fact what they are doing. 

    I am not convinced that the EU is actually doing that.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 20 of 44
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 7,902member
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    Apple should just. let it crash and burn.

    And them make a detailed video campaign about how the EU is taking away users freedom to choose a platform that is closed and secure.
    I really wish someone would survey this and plunk the truth on the table. 

    I'll set out my stalk. 

    IMO, virtually no iOS user is remotely aware of the limitations Apple imposes on them. 

    They are unaware of the wallet/NFC limitations. 

    Unaware of the Web Kit restrictions. 

    Unaware of the App Store restrictions. Both in terms of content and actual stores. 

    Unaware of the commissions. 

    Unaware of the harm that is being caused to them.

    That is what 'closed and secure' means, does it not? 

    Now. Why not be up front on all this? Why not explain these impositions, simply and clearly, and ask consumers to sign off on them prior to purchase?

    I think you will see a massive change of heart from these people and of course that's why Apple would never ever be up front about it and would rather comply with the EU stance. Even if signing off on the restrictions might conceivably get them off many an anti-trust hook. 
    For a fact, most iPhone users are very happy with their choice, don't have any issues of note, and frankly, don't fucking care about what you care about. Certainly, the EU is less concerned about security, than Apple is.

    Still, thanks for another round of "EU 'splaining". Does anyone here have difficulty understanding why the EU is always on the "back foot" when it comes to competitive technology? Could it be that the EU is a shitty business and investment environment, more concerned about balance between EU states than actual competitiveness?
    The question isn't about happiness. 

    The question is about knowledge of business practices. 

    If those happy users knew even the basics of Apple's control, most would be quite, ehem, unhappy. That's how I see it and I have yet to come across any iOS who is aware of the facts. 
    Really? 

    "most would be, quite, ehem, unhappy"

    Do you have any evidence to support that, or is this just another projection of your personal bias?

    Are you being serious? 

    Most of this thread contains opinions!

    Did you even bother to read what I said at the outset? About a survey and everything?

    Why do you think I wrote that? Could evidence actually have something to do with it? 

    How about you put some evidence on the table to support your 'bias'?


    My "bias" will be easily proven when, after all of this, "most" Apple iPhone users continue as is. The only question is what Apple's actual revenue numbers show.

    So, if a survey is actually generated, and it shows that "most" Apple iPhone users are happy with the status quo, will you then bow out, or will you keep arguing that these users need to be "reeducated"?

    Was a consumer survey ever done by the EU, or was this always about developers and financial institutions?
    So it's clear you didn't even read what I said previously. 

    Your bias will not be 'proven' by any stretch of the imagination if users 'continue as is'. 

    Read what I said. 

    The EU process includes consultation with industry (yes, Apple participated too) and surveys with the general public and people are also free to contribute there opinions but the surveys were not on what we are talking about here: the assumption that people buy iPhones knowing full well the limitations and accepting them in exchange for 'security and privacy'. 

    Why do you think I said a specific survey should be carried out? 

    So, the EU really doesn't have an understanding about the consumer, nor did they attempt to gain that understanding, which makes sense, because the GMA legislation isn't really about the consumer anyway.
    Not at all, and the EU really does understand consumer needs. Is there any other bloc on the planet that is more 'pro consumer' than the EU?

    The DMA/DSA are there to level the playing field in the digital age. Please take a brief look at the opening paragraphs of the supporting text to the legislation. 
    If the EU is actually consumer centric, then I can see where they would be resistant to investment in technology and industry that we in the U.S. take for granted. 

    It's obvious that the EU can't compete in technology, certainly not for the investment necessary, though the Baltic countries do pretty well, but sure, credit for looking after their "consumers", it that is in fact what they are doing. 

    I am not convinced that the EU is actually doing that.
    Nothing to do with the question at hand. 
    spheric
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