Apple admits to using Google Tensor hardware to train Apple Intelligence

Posted:
in iPhone

New artificial intelligence research published by Apple reveals that Apple has been using Google hardware to build the early foundations of Apple Intelligence.

A future iPhone with enhanced Siri



The research paper, called "Apple Intelligence Foundation Language Models" is pretty technical, and details the already-known sources of the language model at the core of the company's new technology. However, a quote buried inside the paper hints that Apple may have been using Google hardware in early development.

In the paper, it says that Apple's Foundation Model (AFM) and the server technology that drives it, were initially built on "v4 and v5p Cloud TPU clusters" using Apple software. There is a great deal of information in the research about how that's done, and what data sources they used to train.

A CNBC report on Monday suggests that Apple rented time on existing Google-hosted clusters, but the research doesn't directly support that, nor say anything about Google or Nvidia at all. What's more likely is that Apple bought the hardware outright from the company, and used it within its own data centers.

The model's initial training being performed on Google-designed hardware ultimately doesn't mean much in the long-run. Apple has been said to have its own hardware derived from Apple Silicon in its data centers to process Apple Intelligence queries.

Said to be called "Project ACDC," Apple is reportedly planning to optimize AI applications within its data centers.

Apple is significantly increasing its investment in the artificial intelligence sector, planning to allocate over $5 billion to AI server enhancements over the next two years. The company aims to match the technological capabilities of industry leaders like Microsoft and Meta by acquiring tens of thousands of AI server units, likely driven by Project ACDC.

Apple has also acquired firms in Canada and France that both work on compressing data used in AI queries to data centers.



Read on AppleInsider

«1

Comments

  • Reply 1 of 26
    HrebHreb Posts: 87member
    What's more likely is that Apple bought the hardware outright from the company, and used it within its own data centers.

    Is there any source for this claim?  Wall street has been asking Google to sell TPU hardware basically forever but as far as anyone knows it's never happened.

    byronltipoowatto_cobra
  • Reply 2 of 26
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 24,512member
    Hreb said:
    What's more likely is that Apple bought the hardware outright from the company, and used it within its own data centers.

    Is there any source for this claim?  Wall street has been asking Google to sell TPU hardware basically forever but as far as anyone knows it's never happened.

    If Google permitted Apple to buy their TPU hardware it would be a first. They've been very protective of it, and allowing a potential competitor to pick it apart to better understand how Google arrived at the chip design seems unlikely. 

    EDIT: Apple seems to have more than a passing interest in using Google Tensor hardware for their intelligence features. 
    "Apple's engineers said in the paper it would be possible to make even larger, more sophisticated models with Google's chips, than the two models it discussed in the paper"
    edited July 29 byronlHrebwatto_cobra
  • Reply 3 of 26
    pazipazi Posts: 8member
    What's the big deal? Do whatever you need to move forward. Microsoft used PowerMac G5's when developing the first Xbox.
    coolfactorDAalsethwilliamlondonwatto_cobra
  • Reply 4 of 26
    “Admits” is such an unnecessary loaded word here. 😂

    “Reveals” would be more appropriate haha.

    I think it’s no surprise given that Chris Lattner went to Google and worked on TensorFlow and created Swift for TensorFlow so….seems logical to me to tap into the leading APIs for machine learning.
    ihatescreennamesmichelb76DAalsethwatto_cobra
  • Reply 5 of 26
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 24,512member
    “Admits” is such an unnecessary loaded word here. 😂

    “Reveals” would be more appropriate haha.

    I think it’s no surprise given that Chris Lattner went to Google and worked on TensorFlow and created Swift for TensorFlow so….seems logical to me to tap into the leading APIs for machine learning.
    He left Google 5 years ago didn't he? 
    https://www.reddit.com/r/swift/comments/1b85ucx/an_interested_read_on_why_google_engineers_chose/
  • Reply 6 of 26
    It is funny how much do editors and writers love to show that Apple fails… to get page views… aka ad revenue.

    quote: “However, a quote buried inside the paper hints that Apple may have been using Google hardware in early development.”
    Apple… almost aways… uses other's technology while it develops it own!
    In 2006 the first iPhones used a Samsung processor… And where are we now?
    Until 2020 the Mac used Motorola, IBM, Intel chips… And where are we now?
    Back in 1997 it included Michorsoft's browser… In 2006… Google Maps…

    And we all know that Apple has already surpassed Google, Meta, OpenAI, and Microsoft in user privacy and security in the Artificial Intelligence realm!

    But… showing Apple fails bring pageview… even if what you say is useless or partially fake.
    DAalsethwilliamlondonwatto_cobra
  • Reply 7 of 26
    coolfactorcoolfactor Posts: 2,314member

    Keep your friends close and your enemies closer.  In other words, use their hardware to achieve your success. Smart move.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 8 of 26
    mpantonempantone Posts: 2,141member
    These sort of info tidbits spark a lot of questions, almost all of which will go unanswered.

    When did Apple do this? Did they rent or buy? How much did they pay? Are they still using this hardware? Are there plans to do this in the future?

    It's the same with Waymo vehicles. Google has used a large number of vehicles from various manufacturers with a ton of different modifications over years of testing (they still aren't done).

    I would not be surprised if there are Nvidia GPUs sitting in an Apple data center somewhere. Perhaps not for production purposes but for testing.

    In the end we will never know all the details of Apple's development process. They certainly want the least amount of this disclosed because it gives their competitors insight into Apple's methodology. Apple's secrecy is a competitive advantage. Note that the open source AI model they released is not the one they will use for Apple Intelligence.
    dewmewilliamlondonwatto_cobra
  • Reply 9 of 26
    STOP THE PRESSES!  Apple has been using Corning’s Gorilla Glass and not their own!!!  
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 10 of 26
    blastdoorblastdoor Posts: 3,516member
    I thought we already knew that Apple was using time on Google servers for AI work. Wasn’t there a story about former Google employees doing that at Apple because they couldn’t get management to buy AI hardware? 
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 11 of 26
    blastdoorblastdoor Posts: 3,516member
    Hreb said:
    What's more likely is that Apple bought the hardware outright from the company, and used it within its own data centers.

    Is there any source for this claim?  Wall street has been asking Google to sell TPU hardware basically forever but as far as anyone knows it's never happened.

    I doubt there’s a source — sounds like speculation to me. My speculation is that Apple was using time in Google servers as a stop gap until their own hardware was available.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 12 of 26
    michelb76michelb76 Posts: 675member
    “Admits” is such an unnecessary loaded word here. 😂

    “Reveals” would be more appropriate haha.

    I think it’s no surprise given that Chris Lattner went to Google and worked on TensorFlow and created Swift for TensorFlow so….seems logical to me to tap into the leading APIs for machine learning.
    Yeah it's silly. This is the only site doing that, all other sites just report on this without clickbait titles.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 13 of 26
    mjtomlinmjtomlin Posts: 2,686member
    Is there any doubt Apple didn’t use 3rd party hardware early in their LLM R&D? Of course they did. Apple didn’t have the specialized chips or servers to do this work. I’m sure they used this time to better understand how to build and optimize their own chips/servers that would benefit their own LLM plans in the future - Apple has already stated their “Apple Intelligence” server farm will be running on Apple silicon.
    dewmewatto_cobra
  • Reply 14 of 26
    PSA: Everyone complaining about clickbait titles has generated revenue for AI.
    blastdoordewmewilliamlondonwatto_cobra
  • Reply 15 of 26
    danvmdanvm Posts: 1,460member
    It is funny how much do editors and writers love to show that Apple fails… to get page views… aka ad revenue.

    quote: “However, a quote buried inside the paper hints that Apple may have been using Google hardware in early development.”
    Apple… almost aways… uses other's technology while it develops it own!
    In 2006 the first iPhones used a Samsung processor… And where are we now?
    Until 2020 the Mac used Motorola, IBM, Intel chips… And where are we now?
    Back in 1997 it included Michorsoft's browser… In 2006… Google Maps…

    And we all know that Apple has already surpassed Google, Meta, OpenAI, and Microsoft in user privacy and security in the Artificial Intelligence realm!

    But… showing Apple fails bring pageview… even if what you say is useless or partially fake.
    The issue is that Apple hasn't excelled in the most crucial aspect of AI, which is intelligence. Despite acquiring Siri, Apple missed the chance to be a leader. It remains to be seen what the next few years or months hold, and whether competitive pressure will drive Apple Intelligence to become a player in the AI arena.
  • Reply 16 of 26
    blastdoorblastdoor Posts: 3,516member
    PSA: Everyone complaining about clickbait titles has generated revenue for AI.
    I was thinking something similar— people are just showing that the title worked. 

    I’m thinking AI should lean into the titles even more. 
    beowulfschmidtneoncatwatto_cobra
  • Reply 17 of 26
    neoncatneoncat Posts: 163member
    blastdoor said:
    PSA: Everyone complaining about clickbait titles has generated revenue for AI.
    I was thinking something similar— people are just showing that the title worked. 

    I’m thinking AI should lean into the titles even more. 
    Absolutely. The problem isn’t AI’s headline, it’s the hilarious hyperventilated replies like Luis up above trying to correct some perceived “slight” against their most favorite ever company. If AI can make some coin on the back of that, more power to them. 
    CrossPlatformFroggerwatto_cobra
  • Reply 18 of 26
    People do realize that Apple use’s other companies computer platforms to make their products. Such as using Windows/Linux computers to run the electrical engineering design software.
    williamlondonwatto_cobra
  • Reply 19 of 26
    danoxdanox Posts: 3,211member
    People do realize that Apple use’s other companies computer platforms to make their products. Such as using Windows/Linux computers to run the electrical engineering design software.
    Yes they do mainly due to market inertia in the cad market featuring companies like Autodesk, and Trimble for example which barely supports Mac Computers at all despite Apple being on the verge of offering the M3/M4 PowerBook Pro/Max laptops which will be arguably the best laptops made up until this point bandwidth memory wattage power/battery life and overall performance when combined with what Apple has has coming on the OS software side with Apple Intelligence is unmatched unplugged from a wall. (many job sites)

    That mobile hardware, software power also includes the M4 iPad Pro and 15 Pro and 15 Pro Max which run programs like Morpholio Trace with ease. But Apple is definitely missing the boat in the cad/3D/construction area it's comical and sad watching current PC laptops getting 2 hours of battery time on site.

    watto_cobra
  • Reply 20 of 26
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 7,942member
    danox said:
    People do realize that Apple use’s other companies computer platforms to make their products. Such as using Windows/Linux computers to run the electrical engineering design software.
    Yes they do mainly due to market inertia in the cad market featuring companies like Autodesk, and Trimble for example which barely supports Mac Computers at all despite Apple being on the verge of offering the M3/M4 PowerBook Pro/Max laptops which will be arguably the best laptops made up until this point bandwidth memory wattage power/battery life and overall performance when combined with what Apple has has coming on the OS software side with Apple Intelligence is unmatched unplugged from a wall. (many job sites)

    That mobile hardware, software power also includes the M4 iPad Pro and 15 Pro and 15 Pro Max which run programs like Morpholio Trace with ease. But Apple is definitely missing the boat in the cad/3D/construction area it's comical and sad watching current PC laptops getting 2 hours of battery time on site.

    There is a fair bit of futurology in that. 

    How much of that kind of work is done away from a socket? 
Sign In or Register to comment.