Like I said in another thread here I'm still betting it will look more like an AppleTV in the end. Maybe not quite as small and not made out of plastic, but similar in size.
A smaller mini seems like a pretty good move for variety of use cases. A lot of current 4K TVs serve quite nicely as monitors. Coupled with a Mac mini, an Apple TV, and a decent sound system, maybe something as simple as little as two stereo paired HomePods, you have yourself a nice little home media system.
I'm at the point where I don't think a lot of us even need TVs any more. I don't. Just buy a good monitor that can serve as both a computer monitor and media hub with Apple TV and decent speakers. Even a pair of HomePod minis or a sound bar is better than the built-in audio you get from the vast majority of TVs. The only thing that you get with a TV versus a monitor is a built-in TV receiver to get over the air antenna or cable TV. If Apple built a version of the Apple TV with a TV tuner and antenna/cable port in it there would be no need to buy a TV ever again.
Of course I wouldn't want Apple to do this. I'd vastly prefer that Apple simply put at least one HDMI input port on the Apple TV and let third parties provide TV tuner/cable dongles or boxes that feed into the Apple TV. In essence, build a version of the Apple TV that serves as a mini AV receiver with auxiliary inputs configured and managed through first or third party Apple TV apps and audio output available via eARC connection to a soundbar or via AirPlay2. Perhaps even provide a Thunderbolt input on the Apple TV where you could attach your Mac, iPad, iPhone, PC, or media server to your monitor via the Apple TV. I effectively use my monitors in this way today with a Mac, PC, Linux box, and Apple TV plugged into the same monitor using different ports on the monitor itself. If this could be done through an Apple TV it would free me from monkeying around with the monitor's on screen display controls, which I do using BetterDisplay. Access to your Mac, iPad, iPhone, or Blu-Ray player could be as simple as clicking on the Mac, iPad, iPhone, or PC app in the Apple TV.
On small note about 4K versus 5K monitors. I have a 5K Studio Display and a 4K Dell monitor attached to my Mac Studio. I run them side by side on monitor arms and each one is setup with the same color profile and same scaling, 2560x1440, which is what I consider the most comfortable scaling for a 27" monitor (the default scaling for 27" iMacs). Both are at arm's length from where I am sitting. The 5K Studio Display has more features and maybe looks very slightly "better," at least when I'm convincing myself that it must be better, but the differences are quite subtle, at least for my eyesight and for how I use my computer. I would be very surprised if anyone walked up to my setup and asked me why the 4K screen doesn't look as nice as the 5K screen. It really doesn't, not on a 27" panel and both running at 60Hz. The 5K monitor was $1500 USD and the 4K monitor was around $300 USD. Truth be told, I probably would have been just as happy with two or maybe three of the 4K displays. The Dell's bezels are thinner than those on the Studio Display. Granted, Dell's layout of input ports on their monitors is ridiculously user hostile. But when I'm fumbling around with a mirror and flashlight trying get a cable pugged into one of the Dell's recessed ports, there is some comfort in knowing that the monitor was $1200 USD less expensive than what I paid for the Studio Display.
The Studio Display has been a bit of a letdown. It's spec's in the camera department looked stunning but the camera is nothing to write home about. The speakers are pretty good for built-in speakers, but again, nothing to brag about. It has been very reliable, as has the Dell. The Studio Display accepts only one input while the 4K Dell has three inputs, one USB-C w/DP support, and two HDMI. One of the HDMI inputs is attached to my AV receiver and one of the inputs to the AV receiver is an Apple TV 4K. My standard setup is to have the Apple TV playing through the receiver into a PIP window on the 4K monitor. This allows me to listen to my music or run a movie or show in a small window on the 4K monitor while the rest of the 4K display is an extended desktop for my Mac Studio. Trust me, my 5.1 KEF speaker system sounds much better than the speakers on my Studio Display. Why doesn't Apple allow multiple input sources on their monitors along with things like PIP? Maybe a couple of years down the road I'll come to appreciate what the Studio Display brought me, but then again I've been using Dell monitors for about 25 years and all of them have survived and gone on to serve others when they ended up with friends or were donated.
Sorry for getting off track from the Mac mini topic, but I think both the Mac mini and Apple TV are products that can serve many different needs and could serve even more if Apple tweaked them up a bit more into being building blocks of modular, flexible, and extensible computing and media systems. The days of extensibility based on single product enhancements is over. Everything is sealed up tight. But extensibility via combining and integrating essential 1st party and 3rd party building block products like the Mac mini, Apple TV, HomePods, HomeKit, and mobile devices is still very much in play.
What would be the 24" - 27" monitor of choice to pair this with these days? Anything out there remotely as good as an iMac display but less expensive than a Studio monitor?
I've been very happy with a Viewsonic 27" 1440p IPS monitor. It's in their ColorPro range.
I debated getting a 4K version, but for some reason, my new MacBook Pro M3 allows the monitor to go to 4K! So, in 4K mode the Menu Bar and the palettes in my most used applications (Vectorworks, Photoshop, Illustrator, etc.) become unusable, the text is so small. I guess I'll be sticking with 1440p.
What would be the 24" - 27" monitor of choice to pair this with these days? Anything out there remotely as good as an iMac display but less expensive than a Studio monitor?
In 27-inch, you have 3 choices for a 5K monitor. Apple LG Samsung
So, how do you deal with the minuscule Menu Bar and application palettes in 4K or 5K? Is there a way to make the MenuBar BIGGER? What about application palettes, especially ones with lots of text?
I found 4K mode unusable because of that with my 27" Viewsonic monitor.
Low TDP mean not remove venting holes. All those mini pc form factor have common problem is can't cool down properly. Current Mac mini design is pretty stable why Apple need redesign this. Maybe introduce different color? However entire Mac sales are less than iPad sales alone. So why Apple need low-cost mac need redesign?
Back panel ports are current design is better. Far as I can see only form factor change can be done is from square to rectangular design so remove internal PSU to external one like current iMac. But that will need redesign Mac Mini box layout. Or Apple boldly move Mac Mini board to share Macbook main board so Mini no longer need external bulky PSU like iMac instead use same Macbook charger. In this way, Apple can shrink mini form factor radically.
But again, for Apple's earning margin point of view why Apple need redesign Mac Mini at this point? For M4 Pro version, introduce black Mac Mini will be enough as "PRO".
It just an iPad Pro with Ports , Fan and Heat Sink, but no screen and battery, how big it can be? Or imagine a Macbook Pro with no screen, no keyboard, no battery but little more ports…
oh, these make me remember the 1st iPod Shuffle…2005 Macworld?
Why can the new Mac mini use a USB-C connector for a power supply? So the same type of power supply that the MacBook/MBP has. GaN chargers are only slightly bigger than the old Apple USB charger. Probably don't even need a 100W output. That way you could make the mini really small and have the same power solution as laptops. Or as someone said before, a mini with a dongle that you can plug directly into a monitor. Essentially you could take your Mac anywhere you liked as long as there is a USB display available.
What would be the 24" - 27" monitor of choice to pair this with these days? Anything out there remotely as good as an iMac display but less expensive than a Studio monitor?
1) A used Studio Display. 2) A Huawei MateView 28" 4k display - designed very much with Apple aesthetics but never mentioned on Appleinsider because Huawei don't pay sponsorship fees.
Why can the new Mac mini use a USB-C connector for a power supply? So the same type of power supply that the MacBook/MBP has. GaN chargers are only slightly bigger than the old Apple USB charger. Probably don't even need a 100W output. That way you could make the mini really small and have the same power solution as laptops. Or as someone said before, a mini with a dongle that you can plug directly into a monitor. Essentially you could take your Mac anywhere you liked as long as there is a USB display available.
Make it use the flat lightning connector in the Vision Pro battery pack or arms which seems to be a robust version of usb-c or thunderbolt. Then potentially share the same board and PSU with the iMac.
That would allow them halve the footprint to a rectangle, could still be curved.
If the PSU is an external unit, as it is on the M series iMacs, I will not be thrilled. Further, if it’s a proprietary connector I’ll be even less thrilled.
My AppleTV needs securing to the surface it's on as it's so light and small the connected cables easily pull it out of position. Unless they intend to abandon the majority of ports on a new Mac Mini then I can see the problem being far worse. If the solution is to just add external hubs then that's going to suck.
By all means reduce the size fractionally, but not at the expense of ports ...or weight, it needs to stay put.
What would be the 24" - 27" monitor of choice to pair this with these days? Anything out there remotely as good as an iMac display but less expensive than a Studio monitor?
Back in the spring when I realized there would be no new Macs at WWDC, I bought a refurbished m2 pro Mac mini to replace my 27 inch iMac.
I initially bought a Dell monitor to go with it, thinking it was a great deal relative to the Apple studio display. I was horrified by it. It looked so much worse than my iMac when I saw them side by side. I sent back the Dell and shelled out the money for the Apple. The web cam is as poor as reviews say, but the most important thing by far is the display quality.
Maybe Apple will make a less expensive 24 inch display….
It's not necessarily that the Studio Display is expensive, it's that the competition is all low-price junk. If the LG 5K uses the similar display, but everything else about it is cheap quality garbage and people think Apple should drop their quality to compete.
I've always used iMacs, but since Apple has abandoned the 27" display, and what will replace it now has me considering a Mac Studio. That means buying a display. The Studio Display (imho) is still the best display on the market and expensive as it is, it will be a better investment than anything the competition has.
I'm inclined to think it's both. If you compare the price of the Studio Display to the price of a lower end 27" iMac (back when you could buy them new it was $1800), it's almost like the iMac is a Studio Display that comes with a free computer inside.
But in any event, I have clearly demonstrated that Apple can charge what they're charging because I bought it and am glad that I did.
One thing that I hadn't noticed in my first pass through this story is the bit about there allegedly being an M4 Pro variant of the new Mac mini. That's good news and suggests they will include active cooling (which might be why it has to be taller than an Apple TV).
In the "unintended consequences" territory, there is the issue that since the current form factor has been used for 15 years, the racks, mounts, and cabling systems are then all rended obsolete. If Apple really presses this, are we looking at an iMac killer? A Thunderbolt dongle sized thingy that attaches to a monitor? Choices are good; I'm curious about this.
Mac Mini is supposed to fill the "desktop consumer level" niche. How about a "whole home Mac" that replaces the AppleTV, sits on the home network and cabled to the TV, but is available for any monitor, any where on that network? IOW, the CPU is home network based, not a box sitting next to the monitor (which is exactly what an iMac is for one screen.) Nifty idea, but of course, making a product that reduces the need for consumers to buy your other products isn't...insanely great.
Edit: and...and...and...make that cabled box a new wifi Airport base station. Yeah, I know...and a unicorn pony as well.
"sits on the home network and cabled to the TV" - that is as far from nifty as the Moon.
I understand wanting thinner on devices like laptops, iPads, and iPhones....But I am baffled why Apple uses that same logic on their desktop products. Maybe I am unusual, but since an iMac, Mac mini would be sitting on my desk it is irrelevant to me how thick it is. I would love more expansion ports so we aren't forced to buy hubs to make it usable. I also think that thicker options would allow for airflow and allow them to operate at cooler temps with higher speeds. Am I missing something?
I understand wanting thinner on devices like laptops, iPads, and iPhones....But I am baffled why Apple uses that same logic on their desktop products. Maybe I am unusual, but since an iMac, Mac mini would be sitting on my desk it is irrelevant to me how thick it is. I would love more expansion ports so we aren't forced to buy hubs to make it usable. I also think that thicker options would allow for airflow and allow them to operate at cooler temps with higher speeds. Am I missing something?
There are obvious benefits to Apple to engineer products that have smaller form factors as long as they don't compromise the performance, functionality, or usability in their quest to minimize the form factor. By reducing the form factor they do realize cost reductions in materials, manufacturing, packaging, shipping, and logistics. Lower cost for Apple improves their profitability and reduces pressure to hold the line on pricing.
You're absolutely correct that unlike mobile, handheld, or wearable devices where minimizing size, weight, and power consumption have direct benefits for end users based on how those products are used, desktop computers have typically had far fewer form factor related restrictions to worry about. Apple seems to do a pretty good job of reaching a point where their desktop computers are only as large as they need to be to meet all of the requirements placed on the computer model in question.
Does Apple always arrive at a single form factor and extensibility model, e.g., I/O port numbers, I/O port types, internal expansion vs external expansion, and performance levels that meet everyone's needs? No, but they do seen to satisfy the majority of user's requirements most of the time. Of course they've had a couple of misses in terms of achieving mass appeal, with the trashcan Mac Pro being a leading candidate, even though some trashcan owners love that particular implementation.
I don't think Apple is going after form factor reductions without fully understanding the pros and cons of the choices they make. They have pretty good insight into what the vast majority of their customers value and what they'll buy. Buying is still a choice. There will always be outliers no matter what choices they make. If Apple put a dozen TB4 ports on the Mac mini there will still be users who find that configuration to be grossly insufficient while others would complain that all those extra ports jacking up the price of the computer by going full overkill on ports they will never use. It's all about satisfying as many customers as possible and pissing off as few as possible. I for one have no issues whatsoever with the port load-out on the current Apple Silicon Mac mini pro version. I have no inclination at all to consider buying a hub. If my current Mac mini took up less space on my desktop, used less power, and generated less heat without sacrificing what I need to use it for, I would not complain one bit.
I'm good with my Mini M2 Pro. I bought it last year. I'm retired now. I expected when I bought it to last me 10+ years. But I might trade up when the MacOS no longer can be upgraded. it rests perfectly next to my Studio Display stand, and within the width of the monitor. I didn't know this market needed smaller. I think heat dissipation could be a real concern as the encasement gets smaller. I used to own a iMac 27". After seeing other monitors, there was no way, I was giving up the 5K. Samsung and Dell do not compare to build quality. In fact, I might be getting a second one for dual-screen. Right now, I rely on a MacBook Air 13" as a Universal Control "second screen" (yes, I know it's still using that processor. But I can't slide over windows from the main screen. I connected the two via a high quality TB4 cable. And the fluidity of moving between the two is excellent now. Before the TB4 cable, there was delays in connecting, and skipping with the trackpad pointer.
Comments
I'm at the point where I don't think a lot of us even need TVs any more. I don't. Just buy a good monitor that can serve as both a computer monitor and media hub with Apple TV and decent speakers. Even a pair of HomePod minis or a sound bar is better than the built-in audio you get from the vast majority of TVs. The only thing that you get with a TV versus a monitor is a built-in TV receiver to get over the air antenna or cable TV. If Apple built a version of the Apple TV with a TV tuner and antenna/cable port in it there would be no need to buy a TV ever again.
Of course I wouldn't want Apple to do this. I'd vastly prefer that Apple simply put at least one HDMI input port on the Apple TV and let third parties provide TV tuner/cable dongles or boxes that feed into the Apple TV. In essence, build a version of the Apple TV that serves as a mini AV receiver with auxiliary inputs configured and managed through first or third party Apple TV apps and audio output available via eARC connection to a soundbar or via AirPlay2. Perhaps even provide a Thunderbolt input on the Apple TV where you could attach your Mac, iPad, iPhone, PC, or media server to your monitor via the Apple TV. I effectively use my monitors in this way today with a Mac, PC, Linux box, and Apple TV plugged into the same monitor using different ports on the monitor itself. If this could be done through an Apple TV it would free me from monkeying around with the monitor's on screen display controls, which I do using BetterDisplay. Access to your Mac, iPad, iPhone, or Blu-Ray player could be as simple as clicking on the Mac, iPad, iPhone, or PC app in the Apple TV.
On small note about 4K versus 5K monitors. I have a 5K Studio Display and a 4K Dell monitor attached to my Mac Studio. I run them side by side on monitor arms and each one is setup with the same color profile and same scaling, 2560x1440, which is what I consider the most comfortable scaling for a 27" monitor (the default scaling for 27" iMacs). Both are at arm's length from where I am sitting. The 5K Studio Display has more features and maybe looks very slightly "better," at least when I'm convincing myself that it must be better, but the differences are quite subtle, at least for my eyesight and for how I use my computer. I would be very surprised if anyone walked up to my setup and asked me why the 4K screen doesn't look as nice as the 5K screen. It really doesn't, not on a 27" panel and both running at 60Hz. The 5K monitor was $1500 USD and the 4K monitor was around $300 USD. Truth be told, I probably would have been just as happy with two or maybe three of the 4K displays. The Dell's bezels are thinner than those on the Studio Display. Granted, Dell's layout of input ports on their monitors is ridiculously user hostile. But when I'm fumbling around with a mirror and flashlight trying get a cable pugged into one of the Dell's recessed ports, there is some comfort in knowing that the monitor was $1200 USD less expensive than what I paid for the Studio Display.
The Studio Display has been a bit of a letdown. It's spec's in the camera department looked stunning but the camera is nothing to write home about. The speakers are pretty good for built-in speakers, but again, nothing to brag about. It has been very reliable, as has the Dell. The Studio Display accepts only one input while the 4K Dell has three inputs, one USB-C w/DP support, and two HDMI. One of the HDMI inputs is attached to my AV receiver and one of the inputs to the AV receiver is an Apple TV 4K. My standard setup is to have the Apple TV playing through the receiver into a PIP window on the 4K monitor. This allows me to listen to my music or run a movie or show in a small window on the 4K monitor while the rest of the 4K display is an extended desktop for my Mac Studio. Trust me, my 5.1 KEF speaker system sounds much better than the speakers on my Studio Display. Why doesn't Apple allow multiple input sources on their monitors along with things like PIP? Maybe a couple of years down the road I'll come to appreciate what the Studio Display brought me, but then again I've been using Dell monitors for about 25 years and all of them have survived and gone on to serve others when they ended up with friends or were donated.
Sorry for getting off track from the Mac mini topic, but I think both the Mac mini and Apple TV are products that can serve many different needs and could serve even more if Apple tweaked them up a bit more into being building blocks of modular, flexible, and extensible computing and media systems. The days of extensibility based on single product enhancements is over. Everything is sealed up tight. But extensibility via combining and integrating essential 1st party and 3rd party building block products like the Mac mini, Apple TV, HomePods, HomeKit, and mobile devices is still very much in play.
I debated getting a 4K version, but for some reason, my new MacBook Pro M3 allows the monitor to go to 4K!
So, in 4K mode the Menu Bar and the palettes in my most used applications (Vectorworks, Photoshop, Illustrator, etc.) become unusable, the text is so small.
I guess I'll be sticking with 1440p.
So, how do you deal with the minuscule Menu Bar and application palettes in 4K or 5K?
Is there a way to make the MenuBar BIGGER?
What about application palettes, especially ones with lots of text?
I found 4K mode unusable because of that with my 27" Viewsonic monitor.
Current Mac mini design is pretty stable why Apple need redesign this. Maybe introduce different color? However entire Mac sales are less than iPad sales alone.
So why Apple need low-cost mac need redesign?
Back panel ports are current design is better.
Far as I can see only form factor change can be done is from square to rectangular design so remove internal PSU to external one like current iMac.
But that will need redesign Mac Mini box layout.
Or Apple boldly move Mac Mini board to share Macbook main board so Mini no longer need external bulky PSU like iMac instead use same Macbook charger.
In this way, Apple can shrink mini form factor radically.
But again, for Apple's earning margin point of view why Apple need redesign Mac Mini at this point?
For M4 Pro version, introduce black Mac Mini will be enough as "PRO".
Or imagine a Macbook Pro with no screen, no keyboard, no battery but little more ports…
oh, these make me remember the 1st iPod Shuffle…2005 Macworld?
That way you could make the mini really small and have the same power solution as laptops.
Or as someone said before, a mini with a dongle that you can plug directly into a monitor. Essentially you could take your Mac anywhere you liked as long as there is a USB display available.
Designed as a cheap Mac to encourage switchers, Apple has always treated the Mini as the child it wish it never had.
1) A used Studio Display.
2) A Huawei MateView 28" 4k display - designed very much with Apple aesthetics but never mentioned on Appleinsider because Huawei don't pay sponsorship fees.
By all means reduce the size fractionally, but not at the expense of ports ...or weight, it needs to stay put.
But in any event, I have clearly demonstrated that Apple can charge what they're charging because I bought it and am glad that I did.
You're absolutely correct that unlike mobile, handheld, or wearable devices where minimizing size, weight, and power consumption have direct benefits for end users based on how those products are used, desktop computers have typically had far fewer form factor related restrictions to worry about. Apple seems to do a pretty good job of reaching a point where their desktop computers are only as large as they need to be to meet all of the requirements placed on the computer model in question.
Does Apple always arrive at a single form factor and extensibility model, e.g., I/O port numbers, I/O port types, internal expansion vs external expansion, and performance levels that meet everyone's needs? No, but they do seen to satisfy the majority of user's requirements most of the time. Of course they've had a couple of misses in terms of achieving mass appeal, with the trashcan Mac Pro being a leading candidate, even though some trashcan owners love that particular implementation.
I don't think Apple is going after form factor reductions without fully understanding the pros and cons of the choices they make. They have pretty good insight into what the vast majority of their customers value and what they'll buy. Buying is still a choice. There will always be outliers no matter what choices they make. If Apple put a dozen TB4 ports on the Mac mini there will still be users who find that configuration to be grossly insufficient while others would complain that all those extra ports jacking up the price of the computer by going full overkill on ports they will never use. It's all about satisfying as many customers as possible and pissing off as few as possible. I for one have no issues whatsoever with the port load-out on the current Apple Silicon Mac mini pro version. I have no inclination at all to consider buying a hub. If my current Mac mini took up less space on my desktop, used less power, and generated less heat without sacrificing what I need to use it for, I would not complain one bit.