Facebook ad partner may have tried to listen into your conversations

AppleInsider

If you ever thought that Facebook was listening in on your conversations to hit you with targeted advertising, you may have been right.

Meta and Google were allegedly clients of an advertiser's open-mic surveillance program.

The advertising industry has been trying to improve how it targets ads to users for years, often by mining data for information to build user profiles. However, in the latest revelation, it may have been assisted by smartphones and tablets actively monitoring your everyday conversations.

A slide deck from Cox Media Group seen by 404 Media discusses a service it offered that effectively performed surveillance on a user. Called "Active Listening," the document leak says it could use a device's microphone to listen in to a user's speech whenever they are within audible range.

The idea was that the specialist software would capture voice data from the environment, determining what was being discussed or mentioned. That information would then be paired with existing behavioral data stored in a profile of the user, which in turn allowed for more tailored advertising to be displayed.

A slide from the CMG deck [404 Media]

The pitch deck refers to it as "capturing real-time intent data by listening" to conversations, which is analyzed by AI with over 470 other sources. It cost companies $100 per day to collect a weekly data set for users within a 10-mile radius using the feature.

Active Listening was previously detailed in an earlier report by the publication, which has prompted actions by the companies involved. This included CMG removing evidence of the program from its websites.

This included a blog post from November 2023 discussing how it was legal for phones and devices to listen to users. It also mentioned "When a new app download or update prompts consumers with a multi-page term of use agreement, somewhere in the fine print, Active Listening is often included."

CMG also boasted that it has partnered with Amazon, Facebook, and Google, which acted as data sources and allegedly as clients of the service.

After being alerted to the existence of the slide deck and inbound reports, Google removed CMG from its "Parters Program." This also prompted Meta to review CMG's actions to determine if any terms of service have been broken.

Amazon insisted to the report that its advertising business hadn't worked with CMG on the program, and that it didn't plan to either.

Not an Apple issue

While the prospect of mobile devices listening in could be a privacy nightmare, it's not one that would affect Apple users.

Besides Apple's usual stance on ensuring user privacy is maintained wherever possible, it also has systems in place to prevent such privacy abuses even occurring.

Whenever a microphone is active, Apple's devices display an indicator alerting the user to the activity. This can include an orange dot on an iPhone screen when the mic is being used, to a green indicator for the camera.

Even though Apple hardware is pretty much in the clear here, other hardware platforms may still use it. With billions of Android devices in the world, your conversations may still be snooped by advertisers.



Read on AppleInsider

gatorguy

Wasn't this an old story? I think I remember this being an article on AppleInsider maybe a year or two ago. 

For what it's worth, most relatively recent Google Android devices also give the user a “green indicator” if the microphone or camera is in use, just as iPhone's do. That's been in place since Android 12 in 2021.
https://source.android.com/docs/core/permissions/privacy-indicators

EDIT: Yes, the story was previously reported here last year:

At the time Cox Media denied they were doing any such thing, yet here we are again. 
https://appleinsider.com/articles/23/12/15/one-advertiser-may-be-able-to-listen-in-on-you----if-you-have-an-android-phone
BTW, Cox Media is no longer trusted by Google and removed as an advertising partner as mentioned in the AI article. Facebook and Amazon are less clear. 

sloth77

"Whenever a microphone is active, Apple's devices display an indicator alerting the user to the activity. This can include an orange dot on an iPhone screen when the mic is being used, to a green indicator for the camera."

Which the vast majority of users won't understand and will therefore ignore.

StrangeDays

sloth77 said:

"Whenever a microphone is active, Apple's devices display an indicator alerting the user to the activity. This can include an orange dot on an iPhone screen when the mic is being used, to a green indicator for the camera."

Which the vast majority of users won't understand and will therefore ignore.

Not the point. The was if this was happening on iPhones, it would have been observed and reported on. 

hammeroftruth

The irony is my friend who works at an Apple Store has mentioned that customers who don’t know what those indicators are, claim Apple is listening to their conversations. 🤦 

lotones

gatorguy said: ...Cox Media is no longer trusted by Google...

Imagine how bad you have to be to slither under the low bar set by Google itself.  

gatorguy

lotones said:

gatorguy said: ...Cox Media is no longer trusted by Google...

Imagine how bad you have to be to slither under the low bar set by Google itself.  

LOL!

gatorguy

StrangeDays said:

sloth77 said:

"Whenever a microphone is active, Apple's devices display an indicator alerting the user to the activity. This can include an orange dot on an iPhone screen when the mic is being used, to a green indicator for the camera."

Which the vast majority of users won't understand and will therefore ignore.

Not the point. The was if this was happening on iPhones, it would have been observed and reported on. 

If it were happening on Google phones it would also have been observed and reported on. 

tht

Would be interesting to hear if this "active listening" is happening on macOS, Windows or Linux browsers. Would be less noticeable when you have a gazillion browser windows and tabs open, with multiple audio and video sources per tab.

So many science fiction stories coming true. That one scene from Minority Report where you walk into a store, your eyeballs are scanned and then assaulted by ads. Memorable scene.

auxio

tht said:

Would be interesting to hear if this "active listening" is happening on macOS, Windows or Linux browsers. Would be less noticeable when you have a gazillion browser windows and tabs open, with multiple audio and video sources per tab.

macOS has an indicator in the menubar when the microphone is in use too.

And yes, I've seen it pop up due to a browser tab in Safari which had no business using the microphone (Spotify). So this is definitely a bigger problem with web apps trying to monetize traffic as much as possible. Comes with the territory of the new business model for technology (free, but you're the product) which Google was one of the pioneers of. Pandora's box can't be closed now sadly. My main hope is that, with enough publicity and governance, people can at least be made fully aware of it so that they're able to make informed choices.

StrangeDays

gatorguy said:

StrangeDays said:

sloth77 said:

"Whenever a microphone is active, Apple's devices display an indicator alerting the user to the activity. This can include an orange dot on an iPhone screen when the mic is being used, to a green indicator for the camera."

Which the vast majority of users won't understand and will therefore ignore.

Not the point. The was if this was happening on iPhones, it would have been observed and reported on. 

If it were happening on Google phones it would also have been observed and reported on. 

Google phones? You mean Pixels? What about the rest of the world’s various androids and forks? Without the vertical silo of being both the hardware manufacturer and software provider, who & how can that same assertion be made?

gatorguy

StrangeDays said:

gatorguy said:

StrangeDays said:

sloth77 said:

"Whenever a microphone is active, Apple's devices display an indicator alerting the user to the activity. This can include an orange dot on an iPhone screen when the mic is being used, to a green indicator for the camera."

Which the vast majority of users won't understand and will therefore ignore.

Not the point. The was if this was happening on iPhones, it would have been observed and reported on. 

If it were happening on Google phones it would also have been observed and reported on. 

Google phones? You mean Pixels? What about the rest of the world’s various androids and forks? Without the vertical silo of being both the hardware manufacturer and software provider, who & how can that same assertion be made?

No, I did not mean only Pixel's. It applies in generally to all Google Android phones (Samsung, LG, Xiaomi, etc), which is what I meant by "Google".  I nearly always use the term Google Android to differentiate from forked/based-on-Android operating systems that Google has no control over.

Visual notifications are part of the OS, and have been since a few months after Apple began doing so. 
https://support.google.com/android/answer/13532937?hl=en#:~:text=When apps use your camera,Tap again to manage permissions.

As for other OS'es that may be Android based such as those in China, I've no idea. 

Fidonet127

I’m always reminded by these stories how these developers don’t like Apple’s restrictions and how some people complain about Apple’s walled garden. Plus now we have alternative App Stores. We need to recognize that some developers don’t care about the consumer. 

DAalseth

Fidonet127 said:

I’m always reminded by these stories how these developers don’t like Apple’s restrictions and how some people complain about Apple’s walled garden. Plus now we have alternative App Stores. We need to recognize that some developers don’t care about the consumer. 

I would disagree to a point. They DO care about the customer. They care too much and want to know everything about them at all times and every place. They are the Overly Attached Girlfriend of business. 

But on another point, wouldn’t this be illegal? I mean actually criminally illegal to record someone without their knowledge? 

dewme

sloth77 said:

"Whenever a microphone is active, Apple's devices display an indicator alerting the user to the activity. This can include an orange dot on an iPhone screen when the mic is being used, to a green indicator for the camera."

Which the vast majority of users won't understand and will therefore ignore.

Or can't see because these indicators are extremely tiny and non obvious. These micro-icons are kind of a joke in a similar way that hiding bad shit in an excessively long and convoluted EULA is a joke. Too easy to miss. An option to associate an audible alert tone in addition to the micro icon would be appreciated. I'm thinking "Danger Will Robinson" level audible warnings. It would be nice if Apple at least gave us the ability to trigger a shortcut when these tiny indicators are active. Maybe they already do?  I tend to dislike nagging, like the ubiquitous cookie warnings that are everywhere, but having the ability to set what I want to to be warned about in a very clear and visible way would help. Basically, if I haven't explicitly given permission to an app to access the microphone, camera, or keyboard they'd better not be doing it. 

I really like what Apple has done in making it very easy for end users to know what an app is hoovering up by requiring permission. It's simple, it's strait-forward, and it's not hidden behind legalese presented in 000 font. This same approach should be made for all other privacy related personal intrusions. I know a lot of folks don't give a crap about this stuff, as evidenced by Facebook's huge numbers of subscribers who are perfectly fine with Facebook drilling a personal data well into their life, but enough already. They're destroying the value of the internet.

Any app that intentionally spies on users in any way, shape, or form should be delisted from the App Store and the developer banned from further contributing anything to the App Store. If anyone in the AppleInsider community knows of any app that is doing this, whether or not their nefarious activities are essentially hidden in their apps EULA or TOS, please let everyone know. I will delete those apps immediately.

The signal-to-noise ratio for nearly every online service, including messaging, web browsing, phone, television, streaming media, etc., has totally gone down the crapper. The noise is winning and we are all losing.

Fidonet127

DAalseth said:

Fidonet127 said:

I’m always reminded by these stories how these developers don’t like Apple’s restrictions and how some people complain about Apple’s walled garden. Plus now we have alternative App Stores. We need to recognize that some developers don’t care about the consumer. 

I would disagree to a point. They DO care about the customer. They care too much and want to know everything about them at all times and every place. They are the Overly Attached Girlfriend of business. 

But on another point, wouldn’t this be illegal? I mean actually criminally illegal to record someone without their knowledge? 

Depends on the laws involved. It was there in some of the EULAs. What would it be classified as? In the US, the ability to record a phone conversation is broken up by state in to two party and one party states. One party states, only permission by one side is needed. Two party states, both sides are required to give consent. I’m not a lawyer so I really can’t begin to know. 

Fidonet127

Calling for the apps to be removed from the App Store is no longer going to be effective as there will be multiple app stores. 

dope_ahmine

iOS could add an inspection function to every app’s EULA. It would allow the user to access Apple Intelligence to “chat” with the EULA text before hitting the consent button. This would at least make it much more difficult for the app makers to hide important info in there, whether in cryptic language or small print.

dewme

Fidonet127 said:

Calling for the apps to be removed from the App Store is no longer going to be effective as there will be multiple app stores. 

Good point. However, like many things there are usually “best practices” that help those who want to improve themselves or their craft. While accessing alternative app stores is an option in some regions users who want to stay with a well proven, stable, generally secure, and reliable source of apps will follow best practices and avoid alternative app stores that may be infested with nefarious content. 

Proceed at your own risk and don’t expect Apple to save you if things go bad. I think it’s safe to say that EU regulators who forced Apple to open up users devices to satisfy their own self interests aren’t going to do jack if your privacy gets disemboweled by what they’ve allowed to enter into areas that were previously protected. The gates are now open and the guards have been fired. 

Of course this has always been the case for macOS so only time will tell. 

DAalseth

dope_ahmine said:

iOS could add an inspection function to every app’s EULA. It would allow the user to access Apple Intelligence to “chat” with the EULA text before hitting the consent button. This would at least make it much more difficult for the app makers to hide important info in there, whether in cryptic language or small print.

Woah, you actually came up with a practical use for AI. One that would do some good in the world. One that I might actually use. +10

eightzero

DAalseth said:

dope_ahmine said:

iOS could add an inspection function to every app’s EULA. It would allow the user to access Apple Intelligence to “chat” with the EULA text before hitting the consent button. This would at least make it much more difficult for the app makers to hide important info in there, whether in cryptic language or small print.

Woah, you actually came up with a practical use for AI. One that would do some good in the world. One that I might actually use. +10

Crikey, this. This this this. Brilliant idea, go get some funding and make a startup. And to be clear, I am a retired attorney with 25+ years of contract transactional experience, and can tell you that no one reads their damn contracts to find what I always call "the weasel words." (And even if they find them, can't comprehend the implications.) No, you're not going to get the other party to change them, but it might tip you off to their agenda. Even if consumers wouldn't be swayed by what AI found, the developer/ news community would report on it.