Thinking again about the interface of the iPod and could it be used as a phone interface, I remembered reading an article from Jakob Nielson about the telephone interface. (fyi, jakob is considered a top guru in usability) I found one of his old articles. What is interesting is the following about the telephone keypad. Reminds me of the iPod:
"Let's just get rid of the keys and spend every available square millimeter on pixels.
Most of the telephone numbers you call come from one of these sources:
* your address book
* an email message (or equivalent such as SMS or paging messages)
* online lookup in yellow pages, telephone directories, corporate websites
Instead of keying in ten digits (a horrible UI if ever there was one), it is better to use the screen and simply tap the name of the person or company you want to call."
all Apple servers include unlimited licences and have. it's not an unlimited license to install its an unlimited license for clients to serve to</strong><hr></blockquote>
[quote]Two, I want to own an MP3 player, I DO NOT want to own a cell phone. Sounds like a market to me (maybe i'm the only one though).<hr></blockquote>
Well I don't want a cell phone or a mp3 player. I have a nice hifi system at home and a hardwired telephone. I don't need to be another one of the worker bees that need to be wired into the "mainframe" wherever they go listening to poor quality digital music.
But I guess there is a market for this kind of thing. It isn't a crazy idea that Apple may make something like this.
I just don't see the whole convergence thing happening. Never in my 8 years as a product designer have I seen one really good instance of two devices becoming one let alone a whole host of devices.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Does this guy walk around with his eyes closed!?
There are plenty of examples of "convergeance", and they don't necessarily mean two things coming together, but new functionality becoming apparent from new tech.
The most obvious example of "convergeance" is the mobile phone/PDA. Then you have the mobile phone/pda/camera/MP3 player. OK, the latter is a bit way out - but the former is mainstream.
Other examples of convergeance are digital still and video cameras. Stick a cable into your Mac and there are your shots - and your editing and storage is on the machine too.
How about DVD players on computers?
How about media streaming video and audio on computers?
I just don't see the whole convergence thing happening. Never in my 8 years as a product designer have I seen one really good instance of two devices becoming one let alone a whole host of devices.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
so you pack a bulky bundle of distinct blades, pliers, scissors, etc?
and isn't the combo-drive clear enough proof of recently successful technological convergence? you know... don't buy a standalone dvd player and run it through your crappy tv, use the built in high-definition screen (double the res of all but HDTV sets) of your T/iBook and you can also use the T/iBook for actually making said DVDs, plus it's a jukebox if no iPod, plus it's a finger workout machine, plus yadda yadda
[quote]<strong>
If you want a kettle or toaster would it serve you any better to get a toasterkettle?
</strong><hr></blockquote>
some combinations make less sense than shark polo.
don't we all revere the blending of cheap casio synths with car horns?
where would dukes of hazard have been without 'dixie' stickin it to roscoe
toasterkettles are silly. burnt crumbs AND grounds in my coffee? nah
now if you combined electricity with a kettle, you could move it off the stove burner, free up the burner, use an ekettle in places other than the kitchen, etc... that would be cool
some combinations add substantially in serendipitous ways:
"Remington Electrics (1925 model pictured) could be connected in series; an operator would type on the first machine and the other machines would repeat the actions simultaneously." from <a href="http://www.officemuseum.com/typewriters_office_models.htm"; target="_blank">here</a>
and many rednecks can testify to doubling the value of their truck by adding one o' them newfangled 8-track stereos for portable skynryrd
but before we get even more silly...
back to topic
[quote]<strong>
Apple excel at taking complicated technologies and simplifying them. To integrate phone/mp3 player/ organiser/ games machine/ television/ dishwasher negates this ethos in my opinion, I bought my mobile phone because it did nothing other than be good as a phone it could be a whole lot better but not by adding more 'features'.
I want to own an MP3 player, I DO NOT want to own a cell phone. Sounds like a market to me (maybe i'm the only one though).</strong><hr></blockquote>
Guess what, I want to own a cell phone/PDA and not an MP3 player. That sounds like a separate market to me too. I really hope apple produces a substitute for my Palm and Nokia phone - and I hope I don't have to buy 5 Gbytes of MP3 storage space with it - because I won't.
I just don't see the whole convergence thing happening. Never in my 8 years as a product designer have I seen one really good instance of two devices becoming one let alone a whole host of devices.
If you want a kettle or toaster would it serve you any better to get a toasterkettle? Jobs talked about the mac as a digital 'hub' which implies one device with a number of satellite digital devices not a planet with a single orbiting uber fantastic-does everything moon.
<hr></blockquote>
Toaster Oven.
Where would sliced bread (and nachos) be without it?
As an engineer, I subscribe to the motto: if it isn't broke, you're not trying hard enough. What's an invention but putting things together that no one has thought of before? (That's why I used to watch "Connections" on the discover channel.)
as i said before, MP3s in Cellphones have been around, at least here in europe, for AT LEAST 2 years. Samsung, Sony, Nokia, and i think even Moto and Panasonic have come out with them here.
It IS true you dont see them around much anymore... but then again, thats also because you would have 32, 64, max 128MB of ram for music. kinda pathetic.
Now many phones have an FM radio.
An organizer/mp3 player/gsm would make me and anyone else DROOL.
It wouldnt make sense for Apple to just come out with an organizer/gsm. Who cares. Everyone and their cousin is about to make them. It has to have something others dont, or be of an amazing design, or just something drool worthy.
"To integrate a phone with an MP3 player is dumb,"QB][/QUOTE]
I completely disagree. Don't underestimate the value to some consumers (myself included) of having only one device to carry. In fact, I've held off on buying a mp3 player for this exact reason. I've been hoping Samsung will release an updated model of the Uproar.
I'd be surprised to see Apple release a cell phone-type device. Although I could be mistaken, I believe all cell phones sold in the U.S. are tied to a particular carrier's network. Realizing that this is due to ridiculous business arrangements between the carriers and equipment manufactures, I don't see Apple or any other manufacture releasing a product independent of a major U.S. teleco provider.
And, I for sure hope, that Apple doesn't get involved in some crazy deal with a teleco company!
Thinking of the word "Iceland" "Pod" and "blossom" got me thinking ......... I went to google.com, typed it in.
There's a flower called "Iceland" that blooms from a pod seed Spread the iPod around, get people hooked, and then turn it into a flower (cellphone). Nice, nice, nice.
<img src="graemlins/surprised.gif" border="0" alt="[Surprised]" /> I think you're on to something. Great find!
I think an Apple phone is coming. I think it will integrate functions besides voice. I think Apple sees this as a chance to once again jump on the cutting edge, simplifying emerging technologies "for the rest of us." In short, I think allenmcjones (insider or no), is right.
(And I think his Glove bit was uncannily accurate -- a glove has 5 fingers, Jag Family Pack affords 5 users. Kinda hard to argue with.)
I don't think the iPod will go away entirely. I suppose either the current model will stick around as a low-end, non-phone option or the Iceland is a completely new product line which uses some iPod tech and partnerships (a scroll wheel and an interface from Pixo, for example).
OK, I suppose I better produce some sort of justification for my ?ejaculation?
I do not and cannot believe that Apple will be producing either a mobile phone or a still/video camera at this time. The reasons seems obvious to me?
Contrary to popular myth (particular amongst the great Windows unwashed) Steve Jobs and Apple are not about ?form over function?; they are about ?form and function?. Steve has been quoted several times (you can hear it in one of the finance conference calls) saying that Apple will only design and manufacture ?digital hub devices? where they can ?add something to the party?. The iPod, which I have, is the supreme example of the philosophy. It?s simply better than anything out there in every department. It was also developed with plenty room for development in both hardware and software allowing it to be ?churned? through several cycles whilst maintaining a healthy margin.
The iPod?s creation process has become a text-book example of design management of a fast-track project that required ?envelope pushing? in hardware, software, materials, manufacturing etc., etc. However because of this effort it does not have a great deal of competition and it is relatively expensive. Apple simply does not have the resources to design the tricky bits of either a still/video camera or a mobile phone?and why would anyone want to do that? There are several perfectly good OEM packages available in both sectors. In mobile phones Nokia have recently made their latest platform available to anyone with the required moolah and we have seen the cosy relationship Apple is enjoying with Erickson/Sony. Similarly there are CCD/electronics packages for cameras available from Sony/Fuji/Canon/Fovea etc??which is precisely the f*cking point!
What could Steve and Apple possibly bring to the party that would make those OEM packages ?insanely great? and better than anything else out there in every department? The competition in these market sectors is ferocious?these companies are killing each other; launching a similarly functional unit in nice Apple package (at a $100 more remember, due to Apple?s cost structure) would be insanely stupid. To say that ?Apple might as well have that sale rather than it go to another company? is to have no understanding of the minimum cost of ramping up production of something like this.
There is a product that I firmly believe Apple will produce shortly that fits precisely the profile of the market that existed before the iPod launch? i.e. a market with a few participants producing fairly boring products that are not particularly advanced. Its a market where most people won?t even imagine they want or need this product?until it happens. Its been discussed here before and has picked up the generic tag of iFrame. It is a Pod like unit, larger, with a 6? x 4? colour LCD that syncs with iPhoto and stores and display photographs?plus a bunch of other stuff that we can all speculate on until it happens.
Or maybe 4? x 3?, who knows? The rationale behind it is very simple?Since getting a digital camera (Sony 707) I have taken pictures nearly every day; far more than I used to with my film cameras, and I suspect this is true for everybody. Now the point of taking pictures is to bore your friends and relatives into submission until they tell you what a great photographer you are. So what am I going to do, print them all out? Epson get enough of my money already so I guess it?s a case of dragging the laptop everywhere. Yes I know that kinda works but its not cool or ?perfect? or particularly convenient. Now you can pile another load of functionality on top of this (presentations with video out, movies, direct camera inputs etc.) but that is the core purpose?and an extremely ?Jobsian? one at that.
<strong>...Now you can pile another load of functionality on top of this (presentations with video out, movies, direct camera inputs etc.) but that is the core purpose?and an extremely ?Jobsian? one at that.</strong><hr></blockquote>
This thing more or less exists. I know it's ugly but it does video & audio at a very low price:
I expect such a device -if Apple goes down that road- to be a ProPod or iPod2, but not a new device. This is more of an evolution (of the present iPod) than a second iDevice in my opinion.
Glove 5-person to unlimited-person license (I think we are seing the beginning of this). It is clear that Apple is going after the M$ business & revenue model.
Lucida Digital camera/camcorder. Consumer oriented. Underwater capabilities thrown in but not the major feature. He says that one is on the way soon--it was expected in July.
Wolf Mac clustering package. I have not heard a peep, though many of the pieces are in place. (Wolves run in packs, but are good lone hunters as well.)
Presley New mouse with no buttons, but two different click functions. No sign of it yet.
David's Stone Mentioned in conjunction with a lot of projects, some over-arching strategy of sorts. This one is the one I am interested in.
Iceland Convergence device. See above.
My thought is that we should be patient. Whether or not Mr. McJones is legitimate (my hunch so far is that he is) he is at very least introducing interesting ideas to the boards.
[refrain] If you are skeptical, rather than ad hominem remarks or posts that say "utter crap," that you perhaps a reasoned argument against the possibilities presented might be more interesting to all involved. [/refrain]
Anyway, I am curious about what Mr. McJones has to say. Especially about David's Stone.
For someone who knows more about this than I: How powerful is the iPod processor? How much more powerful would it have to be to deal with any other associated tasks associated with this hypothetical "Iceland?"
Hope Springs Eternal,
Mandricard
AppleOutsider</strong><hr></blockquote>
i know i am getting into this thread late, but thank you, mandricard, for a very good post. a lot better than reading some of the unhelpful knee-jerk comments from others.
glove has panned out correctly. whether people want to admit it or not, glove is legit (recall that apple released a large multi-user package and accompanying support, what, several months ago? and glove, hmmm, 5-member mac os x license? seems like a good match too.
you know, it amazes me how some people seized on this waterproof/water-resistant feature as the thing to debunk the entire rumor, as well as point and laugh as if they know any better. sheesh. it's a camera. deal with it. and it'll come. it's only inevitable. water-resistance will just be a side-goodie. let it go.
david's stone was a bit vague, but go back to the cell phone thread, and for the 800th time, go to the u.s. patent web site and look up gigawire under trademarks. between .mac, gigawire, and a portable device to tie it all together, david's stone could make owning a mac very much "worth it." sure, you can have an ipod with windows, but it just works BETTER with a mac.
wolf just makes sense. easy to theorize following the xserve release.
presley - easily the most appropriate codename EVER. the two-button mouse is something that everyone keeps INSISTING is still alive in cupertino, yet apple keeps saying "it's dead. let it rest."
iceland makes sense for one reason - deceptive advertising. ever wonder why greenland and iceland are named the way they are? long ago, they were named as such to steer people to greenland, and away from the hot springs of iceland and its fertility, to keep it just to those who had discovered it. deceptive advertising at its best -- and oldest.
anyway, hear allen out. he's the best we've got, and seems way better than dorsal or kormac ever were (though even kormac knew about the imac dv's - he was just fed bullsh!t after that to make him look like a fool).
What could Steve and Apple possibly bring to the party that would make those OEM packages ?insanely great? and better than anything else out there in every department? The competition in these market sectors is ferocious?these companies are killing each other; launching a similarly functional unit in nice Apple package (at a $100 more remember, due to Apple?s cost structure) would be insanely stupid.<hr></blockquote>
What I think it would be possible for Apple to bring to Iceland would be
1: ease of use
2: syncing with the iApps
3: Assuming there is enough infrastructure (someone mentioned that he got on the web with an iBook, OSX, and a Samsung phone at 14.4K: more than enough for iCal and Mail syncing). That syncing would be available on the fly at any time. One might check out the services offered at No-IP.com to see some of the possibilities, as well.
4: Beautiful industrial design.
All the phone-pda things out there have awful interfaces, horrible navigational processes, etc. If Inkwell was somehow involved, all of those problems would go away.
As for it storing MP3's and pictures, I would love the chance to get rid of my phone and just carry around my iPod. A microphone on the ear phone cord would be just the thing to do everything I needed.
So I think the possibility is there for an awesome device. Whether it materializes, and whether there are enough access points for it to be truly useful is probably not up to Apple.
presley - easily the most appropriate codename EVER. the two-button mouse is something that everyone keeps INSISTING is still alive in cupertino, yet apple keeps saying "it's dead. let it rest."<hr></blockquote>
That is the most brilliant etymological analysis I have heard in a while!
presley - easily the most appropriate codename EVER. the two-button mouse is something that everyone keeps INSISTING is still alive in cupertino, yet apple keeps saying "it's dead. let it rest."
---------
That is the most brilliant etymological analysis I have heard in a while!
Mandricard
AppleOutsider<hr></blockquote>
Oh... I thought it had something to do with swinging hips... I'm going to have to be more careful with my codename analysis. I'm still waiting for my William Shatner-signed Apple OS I can run on my x86 machine.
yadda yadda good summary of previous posts yadda yadda ...
My thought is that we should be patient. Whether or not Mr. McJones is legitimate (my hunch so far is that he is) he is at very least introducing interesting ideas to the boards.
[refrain] If you are skeptical, rather than ad hominem remarks or posts that say "utter crap," that you perhaps a reasoned argument against the possibilities presented might be more interesting to all involved. [/refrain]
</strong><hr></blockquote>
Actually, I was just being wry. I'll grant that I wasn't offering a well-reasoned analysis of this proposition though.
Let's decode what I said:
[quote] Agreed. I'd find him a lot easier to believe if he created a new persona for each new rumour. <hr></blockquote>
I think we can all grant that whether we believe mcjones or not, we haven't yet seen his predictions come to pass -- the glove thing is debatable. Nonetheless, it's early days, so why not give him the benefit of the doubt, right?
Even though his strike rate so far hasn't been great, he has stuck to his guns, and this was really the point of my remark. This has to count for something -- someone who was really just interested in stirring up a bunch of rumours would in all likelihood adopt a new persona for each new rumour, never having to worry about having a bad reputation.
That's all. Not what you'd call a ringing endorsement, but not a thoughtless dismissal either.
I think we have to be patient. My guess is that Apple is going to release a new iDevice for Christmas Sales. I forget when the iPod was announced (I think Oct.), but it was released in November. Optimistically thinking, we might see something in Paris, to let sales, hype, & production Ramp up for Christmas. It might be later however, depending on how the iPod sales numbers worked: I remember some problems with availability. Paris will probably be mostly Jaguar.1 and iCal. If they bump the PowerBooks, it probably means no iDevice for another month or so.
Comments
about as much crud
"Let's just get rid of the keys and spend every available square millimeter on pixels.
Most of the telephone numbers you call come from one of these sources:
* your address book
* an email message (or equivalent such as SMS or paging messages)
* online lookup in yellow pages, telephone directories, corporate websites
Instead of keying in ten digits (a horrible UI if ever there was one), it is better to use the screen and simply tap the name of the person or company you want to call."
<a href="http://www.useit.com/alertbox/20000917.html"; target="_blank">http://www.useit.com/alertbox/20000917.html</a>;
<strong>
all Apple servers include unlimited licences and have. it's not an unlimited license to install its an unlimited license for clients to serve to</strong><hr></blockquote>
Actually they don't - check the Apple store.
Well I don't want a cell phone or a mp3 player. I have a nice hifi system at home and a hardwired telephone. I don't need to be another one of the worker bees that need to be wired into the "mainframe" wherever they go listening to poor quality digital music.
But I guess there is a market for this kind of thing. It isn't a crazy idea that Apple may make something like this.
<strong>
I just don't see the whole convergence thing happening. Never in my 8 years as a product designer have I seen one really good instance of two devices becoming one let alone a whole host of devices.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Does this guy walk around with his eyes closed!?
There are plenty of examples of "convergeance", and they don't necessarily mean two things coming together, but new functionality becoming apparent from new tech.
The most obvious example of "convergeance" is the mobile phone/PDA. Then you have the mobile phone/pda/camera/MP3 player. OK, the latter is a bit way out - but the former is mainstream.
Other examples of convergeance are digital still and video cameras. Stick a cable into your Mac and there are your shots - and your editing and storage is on the machine too.
How about DVD players on computers?
How about media streaming video and audio on computers?
<strong>
I just don't see the whole convergence thing happening. Never in my 8 years as a product designer have I seen one really good instance of two devices becoming one let alone a whole host of devices.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
so you pack a bulky bundle of distinct blades, pliers, scissors, etc?
and isn't the combo-drive clear enough proof of recently successful technological convergence? you know... don't buy a standalone dvd player and run it through your crappy tv, use the built in high-definition screen (double the res of all but HDTV sets) of your T/iBook and you can also use the T/iBook for actually making said DVDs, plus it's a jukebox if no iPod, plus it's a finger workout machine, plus yadda yadda
[quote]<strong>
If you want a kettle or toaster would it serve you any better to get a toasterkettle?
</strong><hr></blockquote>
some combinations make less sense than shark polo.
don't we all revere the blending of cheap casio synths with car horns?
where would dukes of hazard have been without 'dixie' stickin it to roscoe
toasterkettles are silly. burnt crumbs AND grounds in my coffee? nah
now if you combined electricity with a kettle, you could move it off the stove burner, free up the burner, use an ekettle in places other than the kitchen, etc... that would be cool
some combinations add substantially in serendipitous ways:
and many rednecks can testify to doubling the value of their truck by adding one o' them newfangled 8-track stereos for portable skynryrd
but before we get even more silly...
back to topic
[quote]<strong>
Apple excel at taking complicated technologies and simplifying them. To integrate phone/mp3 player/ organiser/ games machine/ television/ dishwasher negates this ethos in my opinion, I bought my mobile phone because it did nothing other than be good as a phone it could be a whole lot better but not by adding more 'features'.
[ 08-29-2002: Message edited by: fridgemagnet ]</strong><hr></blockquote>
what kind of wingnut geek wants more 'features' anyway
computers were supposed to be just glorified eTypewriters and calculators!
what's with the graphics!
edit: layout and sp
[ 08-29-2002: Message edited by: curiousuburb ]</p>
<strong>
I want to own an MP3 player, I DO NOT want to own a cell phone. Sounds like a market to me (maybe i'm the only one though).</strong><hr></blockquote>
Guess what, I want to own a cell phone/PDA and not an MP3 player. That sounds like a separate market to me too. I really hope apple produces a substitute for my Palm and Nokia phone - and I hope I don't have to buy 5 Gbytes of MP3 storage space with it - because I won't.
I just don't see the whole convergence thing happening. Never in my 8 years as a product designer have I seen one really good instance of two devices becoming one let alone a whole host of devices.
If you want a kettle or toaster would it serve you any better to get a toasterkettle? Jobs talked about the mac as a digital 'hub' which implies one device with a number of satellite digital devices not a planet with a single orbiting uber fantastic-does everything moon.
<hr></blockquote>
Toaster Oven.
Where would sliced bread (and nachos) be without it?
As an engineer, I subscribe to the motto: if it isn't broke, you're not trying hard enough. What's an invention but putting things together that no one has thought of before? (That's why I used to watch "Connections" on the discover channel.)
<a href="http://www.sonyericsson.com/cebit/p800.htm"; target="_blank">Sony/Ericsson P800</a>
This is drool-worthy "convergence" device.
MP3s in cell phones? Heck, they have MP3s in Casio watches. Digital photos in phones? Old hat.
I want my Dick Tracy video phone watch. That's a convergence device. It may not be Iceland, but it's getting there.
It IS true you dont see them around much anymore... but then again, thats also because you would have 32, 64, max 128MB of ram for music. kinda pathetic.
Now many phones have an FM radio.
An organizer/mp3 player/gsm would make me and anyone else DROOL.
It wouldnt make sense for Apple to just come out with an organizer/gsm. Who cares. Everyone and their cousin is about to make them. It has to have something others dont, or be of an amazing design, or just something drool worthy.
I completely disagree. Don't underestimate the value to some consumers (myself included) of having only one device to carry. In fact, I've held off on buying a mp3 player for this exact reason. I've been hoping Samsung will release an updated model of the Uproar.
I'd be surprised to see Apple release a cell phone-type device. Although I could be mistaken, I believe all cell phones sold in the U.S. are tied to a particular carrier's network. Realizing that this is due to ridiculous business arrangements between the carriers and equipment manufactures, I don't see Apple or any other manufacture releasing a product independent of a major U.S. teleco provider.
And, I for sure hope, that Apple doesn't get involved in some crazy deal with a teleco company!
<strong>
Thinking of the word "Iceland" "Pod" and "blossom" got me thinking ......... I went to google.com, typed it in.
There's a flower called "Iceland" that blooms from a pod seed
<a href="http://www.poppypod.com/poppy.htm"; target="_blank">http://www.poppypod.com/poppy.htm</a></strong><hr></blockquote>;
<img src="graemlins/surprised.gif" border="0" alt="[Surprised]" /> I think you're on to something. Great find!
I think an Apple phone is coming. I think it will integrate functions besides voice. I think Apple sees this as a chance to once again jump on the cutting edge, simplifying emerging technologies "for the rest of us." In short, I think allenmcjones (insider or no), is right.
(And I think his Glove bit was uncannily accurate -- a glove has 5 fingers, Jag Family Pack affords 5 users. Kinda hard to argue with.)
I don't think the iPod will go away entirely. I suppose either the current model will stick around as a low-end, non-phone option or the Iceland is a completely new product line which uses some iPod tech and partnerships (a scroll wheel and an interface from Pixo, for example).
I do not and cannot believe that Apple will be producing either a mobile phone or a still/video camera at this time. The reasons seems obvious to me?
Contrary to popular myth (particular amongst the great Windows unwashed) Steve Jobs and Apple are not about ?form over function?; they are about ?form and function?. Steve has been quoted several times (you can hear it in one of the finance conference calls) saying that Apple will only design and manufacture ?digital hub devices? where they can ?add something to the party?. The iPod, which I have, is the supreme example of the philosophy. It?s simply better than anything out there in every department. It was also developed with plenty room for development in both hardware and software allowing it to be ?churned? through several cycles whilst maintaining a healthy margin.
The iPod?s creation process has become a text-book example of design management of a fast-track project that required ?envelope pushing? in hardware, software, materials, manufacturing etc., etc. However because of this effort it does not have a great deal of competition and it is relatively expensive. Apple simply does not have the resources to design the tricky bits of either a still/video camera or a mobile phone?and why would anyone want to do that? There are several perfectly good OEM packages available in both sectors. In mobile phones Nokia have recently made their latest platform available to anyone with the required moolah and we have seen the cosy relationship Apple is enjoying with Erickson/Sony. Similarly there are CCD/electronics packages for cameras available from Sony/Fuji/Canon/Fovea etc??which is precisely the f*cking point!
What could Steve and Apple possibly bring to the party that would make those OEM packages ?insanely great? and better than anything else out there in every department? The competition in these market sectors is ferocious?these companies are killing each other; launching a similarly functional unit in nice Apple package (at a $100 more remember, due to Apple?s cost structure) would be insanely stupid. To say that ?Apple might as well have that sale rather than it go to another company? is to have no understanding of the minimum cost of ramping up production of something like this.
There is a product that I firmly believe Apple will produce shortly that fits precisely the profile of the market that existed before the iPod launch? i.e. a market with a few participants producing fairly boring products that are not particularly advanced. Its a market where most people won?t even imagine they want or need this product?until it happens. Its been discussed here before and has picked up the generic tag of iFrame. It is a Pod like unit, larger, with a 6? x 4? colour LCD that syncs with iPhoto and stores and display photographs?plus a bunch of other stuff that we can all speculate on until it happens.
<strong>...Now you can pile another load of functionality on top of this (presentations with video out, movies, direct camera inputs etc.) but that is the core purpose?and an extremely ?Jobsian? one at that.</strong><hr></blockquote>
This thing more or less exists. I know it's ugly but it does video & audio at a very low price:
<a href="http://www.archos.com/us/products/product_jbmm.html"; target="_blank">http://www.archos.com/us/products/product_jbmm.html</a>;
I expect such a device -if Apple goes down that road- to be a ProPod or iPod2, but not a new device. This is more of an evolution (of the present iPod) than a second iDevice in my opinion.
<strong>FYI: Mr. Analog & Mr. Dawg:
These are the projects Mr. McJones has mentioned:
Glove 5-person to unlimited-person license (I think we are seing the beginning of this). It is clear that Apple is going after the M$ business & revenue model.
Lucida Digital camera/camcorder. Consumer oriented. Underwater capabilities thrown in but not the major feature. He says that one is on the way soon--it was expected in July.
Wolf Mac clustering package. I have not heard a peep, though many of the pieces are in place. (Wolves run in packs, but are good lone hunters as well.)
Presley New mouse with no buttons, but two different click functions. No sign of it yet.
David's Stone Mentioned in conjunction with a lot of projects, some over-arching strategy of sorts. This one is the one I am interested in.
Iceland Convergence device. See above.
My thought is that we should be patient. Whether or not Mr. McJones is legitimate (my hunch so far is that he is) he is at very least introducing interesting ideas to the boards.
[refrain] If you are skeptical, rather than ad hominem remarks or posts that say "utter crap," that you perhaps a reasoned argument against the possibilities presented might be more interesting to all involved. [/refrain]
Anyway, I am curious about what Mr. McJones has to say. Especially about David's Stone.
For someone who knows more about this than I: How powerful is the iPod processor? How much more powerful would it have to be to deal with any other associated tasks associated with this hypothetical "Iceland?"
Hope Springs Eternal,
Mandricard
AppleOutsider</strong><hr></blockquote>
i know i am getting into this thread late, but thank you, mandricard, for a very good post. a lot better than reading some of the unhelpful knee-jerk comments from others.
glove has panned out correctly. whether people want to admit it or not, glove is legit (recall that apple released a large multi-user package and accompanying support, what, several months ago? and glove, hmmm, 5-member mac os x license? seems like a good match too.
you know, it amazes me how some people seized on this waterproof/water-resistant feature as the thing to debunk the entire rumor, as well as point and laugh as if they know any better. sheesh. it's a camera. deal with it. and it'll come. it's only inevitable. water-resistance will just be a side-goodie. let it go.
david's stone was a bit vague, but go back to the cell phone thread, and for the 800th time, go to the u.s. patent web site and look up gigawire under trademarks. between .mac, gigawire, and a portable device to tie it all together, david's stone could make owning a mac very much "worth it." sure, you can have an ipod with windows, but it just works BETTER with a mac.
wolf just makes sense. easy to theorize following the xserve release.
presley - easily the most appropriate codename EVER. the two-button mouse is something that everyone keeps INSISTING is still alive in cupertino, yet apple keeps saying "it's dead. let it rest."
iceland makes sense for one reason - deceptive advertising. ever wonder why greenland and iceland are named the way they are? long ago, they were named as such to steer people to greenland, and away from the hot springs of iceland and its fertility, to keep it just to those who had discovered it. deceptive advertising at its best -- and oldest.
anyway, hear allen out. he's the best we've got, and seems way better than dorsal or kormac ever were (though even kormac knew about the imac dv's - he was just fed bullsh!t after that to make him look like a fool).
What could Steve and Apple possibly bring to the party that would make those OEM packages ?insanely great? and better than anything else out there in every department? The competition in these market sectors is ferocious?these companies are killing each other; launching a similarly functional unit in nice Apple package (at a $100 more remember, due to Apple?s cost structure) would be insanely stupid.<hr></blockquote>
What I think it would be possible for Apple to bring to Iceland would be
1: ease of use
2: syncing with the iApps
3: Assuming there is enough infrastructure (someone mentioned that he got on the web with an iBook, OSX, and a Samsung phone at 14.4K: more than enough for iCal and Mail syncing). That syncing would be available on the fly at any time. One might check out the services offered at No-IP.com to see some of the possibilities, as well.
4: Beautiful industrial design.
All the phone-pda things out there have awful interfaces, horrible navigational processes, etc. If Inkwell was somehow involved, all of those problems would go away.
As for it storing MP3's and pictures, I would love the chance to get rid of my phone and just carry around my iPod. A microphone on the ear phone cord would be just the thing to do everything I needed.
So I think the possibility is there for an awesome device. Whether it materializes, and whether there are enough access points for it to be truly useful is probably not up to Apple.
Hope springs eternal,
Mandricard
AppleOutsider
presley - easily the most appropriate codename EVER. the two-button mouse is something that everyone keeps INSISTING is still alive in cupertino, yet apple keeps saying "it's dead. let it rest."<hr></blockquote>
That is the most brilliant etymological analysis I have heard in a while!
Mandricard
AppleOutsider
---------
Originally posted by rok:
presley - easily the most appropriate codename EVER. the two-button mouse is something that everyone keeps INSISTING is still alive in cupertino, yet apple keeps saying "it's dead. let it rest."
---------
That is the most brilliant etymological analysis I have heard in a while!
Mandricard
AppleOutsider<hr></blockquote>
Oh... I thought it had something to do with swinging hips... I'm going to have to be more careful with my codename analysis. I'm still waiting for my William Shatner-signed Apple OS I can run on my x86 machine.
<strong>FYI: Mr. Analog & Mr. Dawg:
These are the projects Mr. McJones has mentioned:
yadda yadda good summary of previous posts yadda yadda ...
My thought is that we should be patient. Whether or not Mr. McJones is legitimate (my hunch so far is that he is) he is at very least introducing interesting ideas to the boards.
[refrain] If you are skeptical, rather than ad hominem remarks or posts that say "utter crap," that you perhaps a reasoned argument against the possibilities presented might be more interesting to all involved. [/refrain]
</strong><hr></blockquote>
Actually, I was just being wry. I'll grant that I wasn't offering a well-reasoned analysis of this proposition though.
Let's decode what I said:
[quote] Agreed. I'd find him a lot easier to believe if he created a new persona for each new rumour. <hr></blockquote>
I think we can all grant that whether we believe mcjones or not, we haven't yet seen his predictions come to pass -- the glove thing is debatable. Nonetheless, it's early days, so why not give him the benefit of the doubt, right?
Even though his strike rate so far hasn't been great, he has stuck to his guns, and this was really the point of my remark. This has to count for something -- someone who was really just interested in stirring up a bunch of rumours would in all likelihood adopt a new persona for each new rumour, never having to worry about having a bad reputation.
That's all. Not what you'd call a ringing endorsement, but not a thoughtless dismissal either.
I think we have to be patient. My guess is that Apple is going to release a new iDevice for Christmas Sales. I forget when the iPod was announced (I think Oct.), but it was released in November. Optimistically thinking, we might see something in Paris, to let sales, hype, & production Ramp up for Christmas. It might be later however, depending on how the iPod sales numbers worked: I remember some problems with availability. Paris will probably be mostly Jaguar.1 and iCal. If they bump the PowerBooks, it probably means no iDevice for another month or so.
I am waiting and seeing...
And hoping eternally.
Mandricard
AppleOutsider