Companies (Slippery Eels) do not pay taxes we like to believe they do. They are just clearing houses. The customers pay the tax and the cost is passed down to the citizens (lowest level). Example Uber, and Airbnb, pay nothing but their drivers and customers certainly do.
Mizrahi Developments, Walmart, Trump enterprises, the Guess company are other examples in a more evil sense. Don’t ever be a subcontractor/worker involved with these companies you will pay them.
The Hudson Bay Company never paid taxes in their existence but the minions underneath certainly did.
How does Ireland compare to continental Luxembourg, Switzerland, or Monaco, These countries are aristocratic tax havens, Ireland is an upstart blue collar country how dare they go above their station?
Hopefully the money will actually be used to benefit the actual citizens of Ireland, but the way government works across the world I wouldn’t hold my breath, 1 billion or so Euros in the escrow account have already been lost in bad investments so far.
Companies simply take advantage of tax laws to their benefit, just as anyone would. Do you pay more tax than you have too? I be you take every tax break you can, as I would. Doesn’t make them evil. We are all overtaxed, business included.
We are not all overtaxed. The wealthiest corporations and individuals do not pay tax on their wealth, either due to low or no income tax, or getting low or 0 percent loans on their equity and living off of that instead. Definition of not paying their fair share and I can’t wait until that gap is closed.
The wealthiest stand on the shoulders of societies than enabled their success, yet feel they must avoid paying back into that system in return. That a secretary pays a higher tax rate than a billionaire is absurd.
No worries. The EU will continue to screw itself. Taxing its way out of stalled growth and the strain of maintaining the Euro on partner countries will make it implode. Bet they’ll have fun with Putin when their actions help get the Orange Turd elected again.
Tip of the iceberg. This is small change when you’re the world’s wealthiest corporation at $3.3 trillion US. It’s not just Apple - corporate tax set ups are completely ridiculous. Everyday tax payers, our central governments and local bodies around the world could really benefit with the tax revenue from consumer dollars ruthlessly funneled offshore by multinationals.
Companies (Slippery Eels) do not pay taxes we like to believe they do. They are just clearing houses. The customers pay the tax and the cost is passed down to the citizens (lowest level). Example Uber, and Airbnb, pay nothing but their drivers and customers certainly do.
Mizrahi Developments, Walmart, Trump enterprises, the Guess company are other examples in a more evil sense. Don’t ever be a subcontractor/worker involved with these companies you will pay them.
The Hudson Bay Company never paid taxes in their existence but the minions underneath certainly did.
How does Ireland compare to continental Luxembourg, Switzerland, or Monaco, These countries are aristocratic tax havens, Ireland is an upstart blue collar country how dare they go above their station?
Hopefully the money will actually be used to benefit the actual citizens of Ireland, but the way government works across the world I wouldn’t hold my breath, 1 billion or so Euros in the escrow account have already been lost in bad investments so far.
“How does Ireland compare to continental Luxembourg, Switzerland, or Monaco, These countries are aristocratic tax havens, Ireland is an upstart blue collar country how dare they go above their station?”
And there you have the gist of it. Ireland, which deserves a fucking break plus autonomy, gets shafted by the same countries that have always called the shots and farked it over. So much for equality in the EU. It’s the same game, by the same dominant countries.
Companies (Slippery Eels) do not pay taxes we like to believe they do. They are just clearing houses. The customers pay the tax and the cost is passed down to the citizens (lowest level). Example Uber, and Airbnb, pay nothing but their drivers and customers certainly do.
Mizrahi Developments, Walmart, Trump enterprises, the Guess company are other examples in a more evil sense. Don’t ever be a subcontractor/worker involved with these companies you will pay them.
The Hudson Bay Company never paid taxes in their existence but the minions underneath certainly did.
How does Ireland compare to continental Luxembourg, Switzerland, or Monaco, These countries are aristocratic tax havens, Ireland is an upstart blue collar country how dare they go above their station?
Hopefully the money will actually be used to benefit the actual citizens of Ireland, but the way government works across the world I wouldn’t hold my breath, 1 billion or so Euros in the escrow account have already been lost in bad investments so far.
Companies simply take advantage of tax laws to their benefit, just as anyone would. Do you pay more tax than you have too? I be you take every tax break you can, as I would. Doesn’t make them evil. We are all overtaxed, business included.
i’m retired, retired people do not get any significant tax breaks, at least not without a catch, lucky to have Prop 13 which had nothing to do with the grace of the politicians. most of the taxes I pay these days are use taxes and you can’t get out of them.
It’s intriguing that you criticize companies for taking advantage of special treatment while simultaneously benefiting from Proposition 13, which shifts your tax burden onto new property owners and negatively impacts public school children.
Prop 13 is the only way someone who is old can hang onto their house if they were able to even buy a house in their lifetime in the first place, if it wasn’t for Prop 13 a retired person would be simply taxed out of their house by the government, most states in America do not have anything like Prop 13.
The politicians, at the time we’re not willing to do anything about it Prop 13 was passed by statewide initiative. Politicians are not willing to solve or even seriously consider the problem. Sound familiar? Lack of housing for young people starting out is a problem in all the English-speaking countries, USA, Canada, Australia, Ireland New Zealand, and the UK the politicians will only pay lip service, in fact, One party in America is talking about getting rid of Social Security, so in most parts of America, you will be taxed out at your house and have no Social Security.
And there’s nothing intriguing about it. I remember Prop 13 being passed when I was in high school, as usual when you’re young, you don’t think about it too much but as you grow up later on you realize the importance and Prop 13 was one such law, time flies and then you get old.
I hold, no faith In Politicians honoring Social Security despite the fact that ordinary people pay into it over a working lifetime, similar to NHS in the UK in time the politicians/upper crust will twist it around (Brexit) and they will convince all the citizens that they are doing them a favor by taking it away, despite the fact that the citizens have been paying for it all along.
Burden? Most older people those that work for a wage have carried the burden for their lifetime, most cannot escape paying taxes, they don’t have the Hudson Bay Company (Clearing house) on their side.
A global approach to fair tax is in the works and will be much better. No thanks to the EU Commission and Vestager on that process as I think they prefer the 'fine them' model. That aside, are there substantial reasons for Apple to stay in Ireland, other than having invested in infrastructure there and having a well educated work force. Surely there are other countries that would offer more advantages. As well with DMA, the EU has become unfriendly territory for US tech companies. This ruling I fear is the beginning of many.
On August 30, 2016, the European Commission (the “Commission”) announced its decision that Ireland granted state aid to Apple Inc. (the “Company”) by providing tax opinions in 1991 and 2007 concerning the tax allocation of profits of the Irish branches of two subsidiaries of the Company (the “State Aid Decision”). The State Aid Decision ordered Ireland to calculate and recover additional taxes from the Company for the period June 2003 through December 2014. Irish legislative changes, effective as of January 2015, eliminated the application of the tax opinions from that date forward. The Company and Ireland appealed the State Aid Decision to the General Court of the Court of Justice of the European Union (the “General Court”). On July 15, 2020, the General Court annulled the State Aid Decision. On September 25, 2020, the Commission appealed the General Court’s decision to the European Court of Justice (the “ECJ”) and a hearing was held on May 23, 2023.
On September 10, 2024, the ECJ announced that it had set aside the 2020 judgment of the General Court and confirmed the Commission’s 2016 State Aid Decision. As a result, the Company expects to record a one-time income tax charge in its fourth fiscal quarter ending September 28, 2024, of up to approximately $10 billion, which will increase the Company’s effective tax rate for the quarter.
I suppose the U.S. government could again try to get involved, filing a complaint of some sort, since that's where the money that Ireland will collect will ultimately effectively be coming from.
How is the money effectively coming from the US government and not from Apple?
Credit for foreign taxes paid. US is party to many tax treaties that prevent double taxation. Ergo, if Apple instead paid the US government when it repatriated a ton of overseas profits back when the US government gave businesses a favorable tax rate to do so, then Apple will get a tax credit on the $14b it now has to pay to Ireland. This will reduce its US taxes in the next tax year or years (until the credit is fully utilized). Thus it’s the US government that will take a hit for this decision.
No worries. The EU will continue to screw itself. Taxing its way out of stalled growth and the strain of maintaining the Euro on partner countries will make it implode. Bet they’ll have fun with Putin when their actions help get the Orange Turd elected again.
Lol so now if Americans elect Trump it’s Europe’s fault? No, own it, the US is full of fascists (just like the EU).
The title is misleading: Apple must not pay the amount to the EU, but to the Irish government. The court has decided that the reduced tax rate must be considered as illegal government aid to a private company. This illegal aid must be reimbursed to Ireland.
Ireland is on apple's side they said as much, i bet you the all the EU wanted was get its hand on all that money at least they don't get any of it.
Nonsense, this decision was what the EU was asking all along.
I suppose the U.S. government could again try to get involved, filing a complaint of some sort, since that's where the money that Ireland will collect will ultimately effectively be coming from.
How is the money effectively coming from the US government and not from Apple?
Credit for foreign taxes paid. US is party to many tax treaties that prevent double taxation. Ergo, if Apple instead paid the US government when it repatriated a ton of overseas profits back when the US government gave businesses a favorable tax rate to do so, then Apple will get a tax credit on the $14b it now has to pay to Ireland. This will reduce its US taxes in the next tax year or years (until the credit is fully utilized). Thus it’s the US government that will take a hit for this decision.
Why does Apple get a tax credit on the $14b it has to pay to Ireland? The money was not repatriated; it's in escrow. These $14b are tax payable on overseas profits, which were never taxable by the US gov't in the first place. These extra $14b in local taxes do not affect Apple's US-taxable income, AFAICS.
I suppose the U.S. government could again try to get involved, filing a complaint of some sort, since that's where the money that Ireland will collect will ultimately effectively be coming from.
How is the money effectively coming from the US government and not from Apple?
Credit for foreign taxes paid. US is party to many tax treaties that prevent double taxation. Ergo, if Apple instead paid the US government when it repatriated a ton of overseas profits back when the US government gave businesses a favorable tax rate to do so, then Apple will get a tax credit on the $14b it now has to pay to Ireland. This will reduce its US taxes in the next tax year or years (until the credit is fully utilized). Thus it’s the US government that will take a hit for this decision.
Why does Apple get a tax credit on the $14b it has to pay to Ireland? The money was not repatriated; it's in escrow. These $14b are tax payable on overseas profits, which were never taxable by the US gov't in the first place. These extra $14b in local taxes do not affect Apple's US-taxable income, AFAICS.
Or am I missing something?
There's also a mismatch. They are paying $14B US in corporate tax to Ireland, but reporting a one-time tax obligation of $10B to the SEC. Is Apple referring to the same tax bill?
Okay I NEVER want to hear an EU citizen complaining about how much Apple products cost.
Mostly, those complaints are bullshit anyway, since Europeans who complain about the price difference almost invariably forget that U.S. prices are ALWAYS listed without VAT.
Once you subtract that, it's usually only about 5% or less — which gets us customers two years of mandatory warranty, and the employees a bunch of rights including employer's contribution to mandatory health insurance and social security, four weeks' paid vacation, and legally mandated notice periods before getting let go. Prices usually include a bit of buffer for exchange rate fluctuation, as well.
I suppose the U.S. government could again try to get involved, filing a complaint of some sort, since that's where the money that Ireland will collect will ultimately effectively be coming from.
How is the money effectively coming from the US government and not from Apple?
Credit for foreign taxes paid. US is party to many tax treaties that prevent double taxation. Ergo, if Apple instead paid the US government when it repatriated a ton of overseas profits back when the US government gave businesses a favorable tax rate to do so, then Apple will get a tax credit on the $14b it now has to pay to Ireland. This will reduce its US taxes in the next tax year or years (until the credit is fully utilized). Thus it’s the US government that will take a hit for this decision.
Why does Apple get a tax credit on the $14b it has to pay to Ireland? The money was not repatriated; it's in escrow. These $14b are tax payable on overseas profits, which were never taxable by the US gov't in the first place. These extra $14b in local taxes do not affect Apple's US-taxable income, AFAICS.
Or am I missing something?
Under the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act of 2017 those kinds of earnings - retained post-1986 foreign earnings which hadn't been distributed to the parent (U.S.) company - were deemed repatriated. Apple was required to pay U.S. income taxes on those earnings but the new tax liability could be paid over a number of years. I think it will still be paying that liability for a few more years. Whether certain earnings were actually repatriated largely stopped mattering at that point and you'll notice, if you look through Apple's financial statements, that it stopped reporting about sums that hadn't been repatriated.
I suppose the U.S. government could again try to get involved, filing a complaint of some sort, since that's where the money that Ireland will collect will ultimately effectively be coming from.
How is the money effectively coming from the US government and not from Apple?
Credit for foreign taxes paid. US is party to many tax treaties that prevent double taxation. Ergo, if Apple instead paid the US government when it repatriated a ton of overseas profits back when the US government gave businesses a favorable tax rate to do so, then Apple will get a tax credit on the $14b it now has to pay to Ireland. This will reduce its US taxes in the next tax year or years (until the credit is fully utilized). Thus it’s the US government that will take a hit for this decision.
Why does Apple get a tax credit on the $14b it has to pay to Ireland? The money was not repatriated; it's in escrow. These $14b are tax payable on overseas profits, which were never taxable by the US gov't in the first place. These extra $14b in local taxes do not affect Apple's US-taxable income, AFAICS.
Or am I missing something?
From a quick Google search: Using the new 15.5 percent repatriation tax rate, the $38 billion tax payment disclosed by Apple means they are planning a $245 billion repatriation. The tax overhaul, which President Donald Trump signed into law last month, also lowered the corporate tax rate to 21 percent from 35 percent.Jan 17, 2018
So, Apple would have paid a big tax bill against all that repatriated income. But now, if some of that tax will be instead owed to Ireland, it will create a tax credit against the taxes already paid to the US, to ensure Apple isn’t, in the end, double taxed on that repatriated income. And that tax credit will likely offset ALL of the $14b Apple is now required to pay to Ireland. Ergo, it won’t come out of Apple’s pockets, but instead will come back out of the pocket of the US government since the US government was paid too much in taxes back when the income was repatriated.
Advice to Ireland- withdraw from the EU! From uncontrolled immigration and crime issues to economic dictation, the EU best served itself and its unelected bureaucrats than its member countries who have surrendered their sovereignty to Brussels!
Advice to Ireland- withdraw from the EU! From uncontrolled immigration and crime issues to economic dictation, the EU best served itself and its unelected bureaucrats than its member countries who have surrendered their sovereignty to Brussels!
The Irish are acutely aware of the shit-show that is post- Brexit UK, and very happy to remain part of the EU.
Comments
The wealthiest stand on the shoulders of societies than enabled their success, yet feel they must avoid paying back into that system in return. That a secretary pays a higher tax rate than a billionaire is absurd.
“How does Ireland compare to continental Luxembourg, Switzerland, or Monaco, These countries are aristocratic tax havens, Ireland is an upstart blue collar country how dare they go above their station?”
And there you have the gist of it. Ireland, which deserves a fucking break plus autonomy, gets shafted by the same countries that have always called the shots and farked it over. So much for equality in the EU. It’s the same game, by the same dominant countries.
The politicians, at the time we’re not willing to do anything about it Prop 13 was passed by statewide initiative. Politicians are not willing to solve or even seriously consider the problem. Sound familiar? Lack of housing for young people starting out is a problem in all the English-speaking countries, USA, Canada, Australia, Ireland New Zealand, and the UK the politicians will only pay lip service, in fact, One party in America is talking about getting rid of Social Security, so in most parts of America, you will be taxed out at your house and have no Social Security.
And there’s nothing intriguing about it. I remember Prop 13 being passed when I was in high school, as usual when you’re young, you don’t think about it too much but as you grow up later on you realize the importance and Prop 13 was one such law, time flies and then you get old.
I hold, no faith In Politicians honoring Social Security despite the fact that ordinary people pay into it over a working lifetime, similar to NHS in the UK in time the politicians/upper crust will twist it around (Brexit) and they will convince all the citizens that they are doing them a favor by taking it away, despite the fact that the citizens have been paying for it all along.
Burden? Most older people those that work for a wage have carried the burden for their lifetime, most cannot escape paying taxes, they don’t have the Hudson Bay Company (Clearing house) on their side.
Once you subtract that, it's usually only about 5% or less — which gets us customers two years of mandatory warranty, and the employees a bunch of rights including employer's contribution to mandatory health insurance and social security, four weeks' paid vacation, and legally mandated notice periods before getting let go. Prices usually include a bit of buffer for exchange rate fluctuation, as well.
We're doing fine.
Using the new 15.5 percent repatriation tax rate, the $38 billion tax payment disclosed by Apple means they are planning a $245 billion repatriation. The tax overhaul, which President Donald Trump signed into law last month, also lowered the corporate tax rate to 21 percent from 35 percent.Jan 17, 2018