TikTok has shut itself down in the US ahead of January 19 deadline.

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in General Discussion edited January 19

A TikTok ban in the US that's been in the works for years started early on Saturday with the company locking down US users -- but the entire saga remains more about politics than national security.

Logo of TikTok's parent company, ByteDanceTikTok



As of January 19, 2025, TikTok is no longer accessible within the US. The app is being removed from Apple's App Store and the Google Play Store, plus Oracle must now stop hosting the service's US user data.

Those existing users will see only an explanatory pop-up message on launching the app. TikTok's owners, Chinese firm ByteDance, is said to be working to allow users to download their data and personal information.

The second notification sent to users with the app installed cites some sort of discussion taking place with president elect Donald Trump, despite him being the architect of the ban in the first place.

A law banning TikTok has been enacted in the U.S. Unfortunately, that means you can't use TokTok for now

We are fortunate that President Trump has indicated that he will work with us on a solution to reinstate TikTok once he takes office. Please stay tuned!

How we got here



The ban is really the culmination of years of politics, but ostensibly, the reason is that TikTok is owned by a Chinese company. It's alleged that therefore that China could compel the company to provide it with confidential US user data.

President Trump proposed the ban in 2020,

"As far as TikTok is concerned, we're banning them from the United States," he said in August 1, 2020. "Soon, immediately. I mean essentially immediately. I will sign the document tomorrow."

It was on August 7, 2020, that Trump signed the Executive Order banning TikTok, and giving it a deadline of September 20. The order specified that such Chinese-owned apps continue "to threaten the national security, foreign policy, and economy of the United States."

The order cited the International Emergency Economic Powers Act, and prohibited any transaction between US firms and TikTok's owner, ByteDance. Before the September deadline, ByteDance was said to be in talks that would see Oracle take over its US business, and Trump publicly approved the deal -- initially.

He then scuttled this Oracle/TikTok deal in September 2020. It's not known why, but conceivably it was believed that the Oracle deal would not assuage security concerns.

TikTok's owners have repeatedly claimed that the US security concerns were unfounded. It said that it had strong data security, and denied claims that the Chinese government had any access.

The September 2020 ban was first delayed by a US judge. It was then blocked in November 2020 by the courts as an infringement of the rights of Americans whose income was derived from their work on TikTok.

Biden signs the ban into law



The case against TikTok has not varied or expanded from the accusations of Chinese access to US user data. But in 2024, President Biden signed the ban into law.

"The path to my desk was a difficult path," President Biden said. "It should have been easier and it should've gotten there sooner. but in the end we did what America always does -- we rose to the moment."

In this case, ByteDance was given nine months to divest itself of TikTok. A three-month extension would be triggered if the company was in negotiations to sell the platform.

That extension did not happen, but one thing that changed was that Trump asked in December 2024 for the ban to be paused. There doesn't appear to be any technical, security, or legal reason for Trump's request, but any delay would have pushed the ban into his forthcoming administration.

One other thing that arguably changed over the four years of the on/off ban threats, is that TikTok has grown significantly. According to SEO.ai,TikTok now has 150 million users in the US, compared to
82 million in 2020.

Overall, TikTok has a billion active users daily, so the loss of 150 million is significant, but not fatal. What might ultimately damage TikTok more is that news of the ban has sent users to alternatives, including RedNote -- another China-based company.



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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 25
    JFC_PAjfc_pa Posts: 955member
    Other than suspicions has anyone ever delivered actual proof of any PRC security violations involving TikTok? Relying on Trump, the originator of the entire jihad, is sAd. 
    longpathjeffharrissconosciutothtmacxpresswatto_cobrawilliamlondon
     7Likes 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 2 of 25
    JFC_PA said:
    Other than suspicions has anyone ever delivered actual proof of any PRC security violations involving TikTok? Relying on Trump, the originator of the entire jihad, is sAd. 
    The only alleged evidence was redacted so much that it proved nothing. It came down to “trust me, Bro”.
    thtsconosciutowatto_cobra
     3Likes 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 3 of 25
    riverkoriverko Posts: 251member
    JFC_PA said:
    Other than suspicions has anyone ever delivered actual proof of any PRC security violations involving TikTok? Relying on Trump, the originator of the entire jihad, is sAd. 
    Suspicions are enough these days… and things will get worse…
    jeffharrisdewmesconosciutomuthuk_vanalingamwatto_cobrawilliamlondon
     6Likes 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 4 of 25
    M68000m68000 Posts: 909member
    I don’t know how most people have time for it.  I don’t have time or interest.  I already use Facebook (cautiously and sparingly) as well as YouTube.  
    jas99ravnorodomiOS_Guy80watto_cobra
     4Likes 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 5 of 25
    Technically that is either late Saturday or early Sunday depending on the exact minute. Not “early Saturday”.
    watto_cobrawilliamlondon
     1Like 1Dislike 0Informatives
  • Reply 6 of 25
    Pemapema Posts: 206member
    M68000 said:
    I don’t know how most people have time for it.  I don’t have time or interest.  I already use Facebook (cautiously and sparingly) as well as YouTube.  
    the whole saga is a total waste of time. But for those zombies that still rely on the app, can't they get around the ban by using a VPN?
    iOS_Guy80watto_cobra
     2Likes 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 7 of 25
    22july201322july2013 Posts: 3,766member
    JFC_PA said:
    Other than suspicions has anyone ever delivered actual proof of any PRC security violations involving TikTok? 
    Here is the proof anyone should need:...

    China's National Intelligence Law (2017)

    1. Article 7:

    • Requires organizations and citizens to “support, assist, and cooperate with state intelligence work” upon request.

    • This clause is interpreted as obligating companies to provide data and other forms of cooperation to Chinese intelligence agencies.

    2. Article 14:

    • Grants intelligence agencies the authority to demand assistance from organizations or individuals and to use their resources for intelligence gathering.

    3. Article 28:

    • Emphasizes confidentiality, stating that individuals and organizations must not disclose their involvement in assisting intelligence activities.

    China's Personal Information Protection Law (2021): Similar to GDPR in some respects but includes provisions that prioritize national security over personal privacy.

    In case you didn't notice in the text above, TikTok is prohibited by law from revealing if China's intelligence agencies have taken their data.

    edited January 19
    JanNLsphericgatorguyretrogustosconosciutothtelijahgwatto_cobrabeowulfschmidt
     5Likes 2Dislikes 2Informatives
  • Reply 8 of 25
    22july201322july2013 Posts: 3,766member

    Pema said:
    M68000 said:
    I don’t know how most people have time for it.  I don’t have time or interest.  I already use Facebook (cautiously and sparingly) as well as YouTube.  
    the whole saga is a total waste of time. But for those zombies that still rely on the app, can't they get around the ban by using a VPN?
    Would Apple and Google be breaking the law if they didn't revoke the certificate in their mobile OS for the TikTok app that's on their phone? How would you run the TikTok app if the app was blocked by the OS? Do you think most users will jailbreak their smartphones?

    And could VPN companies be breaking the law if they allowed this? Any VPN company that physically has any servers in the US may be forced to shut down if they didn't block that traffic. It would be very easy for the government to detect if a VPN company was breaking the law.
    watto_cobra
     1Like 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 9 of 25
    The American people, while being controlled by Zuckerberg and Musk’s algorithms and the two-party polarization system: “China’s the bad guy!”
    sphericsconosciutoiOS_Guy80muthuk_vanalingamthtelijahgwatto_cobra
     6Likes 1Dislike 0Informatives
  • Reply 10 of 25
    zonezone Posts: 76member
    The real question is how this will impact Apple’s phone sales if TikTok goes dark permanently. What are your thoughts?
    edited January 19
    dewmewatto_cobra
     1Like 0Dislikes 1Informative
  • Reply 11 of 25
    Pemapema Posts: 206member
    zone said:
    The real question is how this will impact Apple’s phone sales if TikTok goes dark permanently. What are your thoughts?
    Good point. ICYMI - Cook has already brown-nosed up to Trumpy by donating a cool million to his campaign. Apple had massive sales pre-TikTok. What Cook & Co are more worried about is how Trumpy's hostile stance against the Chinese government on their car imports. The Chinese have upended the car industry in case you didn't notice. They have been waiting for a beachhead. EVs gave them that beachhead. For years European, Korean, Japanese and American cars have sold millions of ICE cars in China. 
    Along comes Musk with his Tesla. The Chinese are smart, tactful and strategic - they learnt the trade from Tesla's giga factory in China. They figured EVs are where they can have their day. They couldn't compete against the likes of Toyota, Kia, Honda, BMW, Audi, Ford, GM etc. etc. on their own turf, i.e. ICE cars. 
    All the while they have been quietly piling up the mineral resources that they need for their EVs and BAM! they launched not one, but nine brands on Europe, Australia and the US. 
    VW is in trouble, Stellantis is in trouble as other the US car manufacturers. 
    If Trumpy blocks the Chinese cars with Tariffs, they will retaliate with what matters most to Apple: phones. And that's what Tim & Co are worried about. 
    Trumpy thinks he can bully his weight around the world. Sure he can, but, he is going to get pushed back big time. Where it hurts US companies. All American imports from China. 
    Next time you are strolling around Walmart or Costco look and see how many brands of products are stamped PRC.
    Also, remember that iPhone sales are dependent hugely on China sales. 
    So the issue is not TikTok the issue is Tit for Tat. You tariff us, Xi tells Trump we will block you big time. 
    retrogustomuthuk_vanalingam
     2Likes 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 12 of 25
    22july201322july2013 Posts: 3,766member
    I thought this would become a very busy thread very fast. But it's practically empty (just one post per hour.) It hasn't even in devolved into political hate. I guess AI readers don't use TikTok very much.
    sconosciutoelijahgwatto_cobra
     2Likes 1Dislike 0Informatives
  • Reply 13 of 25

    USA: today we’re banning an app we believe is a threat to national security even though we have no proof of this other than our fears
     
    also USA: remember that guy who couldn’t take losing an election fair and square four years ago so he told his worshippers to violently storm the Capitol where they assaulted law enforcement and tried to kill the Vice President? Yeah we are making him president tomorrow and a court gave him the powers of a king 👍
    edited January 19
    sphericelijahgwatto_cobra
     3Likes 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 14 of 25
    Pema said:
    the whole saga is a total waste of time. But for those zombies that still rely on the app, can't they get around the ban by using a VPN?
    I tested TikTok using my VPN, and it doesn't work. I guess that's because the app is for the US only. (I don't know how it works.) I also tested using the UK, Australia, and others’ servers, but they still don't work. 

    watto_cobra
     0Likes 0Dislikes 1Informative
  • Reply 15 of 25
    JFC_PA said:
    Other than suspicions has anyone ever delivered actual proof of any PRC security violations involving TikTok? 
    Here is the proof anyone should need:...

    China's National Intelligence Law (2017)

    1. Article 7:

    • Requires organizations and citizens to “support, assist, and cooperate with state intelligence work” upon request.

    • This clause is interpreted as obligating companies to provide data and other forms of cooperation to Chinese intelligence agencies.

    2. Article 14:

    • Grants intelligence agencies the authority to demand assistance from organizations or individuals and to use their resources for intelligence gathering.

    3. Article 28:

    • Emphasizes confidentiality, stating that individuals and organizations must not disclose their involvement in assisting intelligence activities.

    China's Personal Information Protection Law (2021): Similar to GDPR in some respects but includes provisions that prioritize national security over personal privacy.

    In case you didn't notice in the text above, TikTok is prohibited by law from revealing if China's intelligence agencies have taken their data.

    US law clearly, unequivocally requires TT to shut down yet a guy who isn’t in any official capacity at this time is promising that won’t happen and quite a few people who are either knowledgable or have quite a bit at stake wrt TT consider this to be a credible outcome.

    it’s almost like simply quoting a law is a piss-poor proof of anything other than the fact of the law’s existence. 
    edited January 19
    sphericelijahg
     1Like 0Dislikes 1Informative
  • Reply 16 of 25
    tundraboytundraboy Posts: 1,919member
    JFC_PA said:
    Other than suspicions has anyone ever delivered actual proof of any PRC security violations involving TikTok? Relying on Trump, the originator of the entire jihad, is sAd. 
    PRC is a total dictatorship that maintains an adversarial stand against the West.  Even if the PRC is not tapping into the TikTok network and  database right now, there is no institutional roadblock, such as an independent judiciary, that would stop Dictator Xi if he decides that he wants data from TikTok. 

    China doesn't allow US-based social apps to conduct business in China because he doesn't trust the NSA and CIA.  Why should we trust Chinese social apps then, given that the Chinese security apparatus has even less institutional oversight than the NSA and CIA?

    The fact that China doesn't seem to have tapped TikTok for intel and mass manipulation doesn't mean that they can't or won't.



    thtsconosciutoelijahgwatto_cobrawilliamlondon
     2Likes 3Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 17 of 25
    Trump’s new crypto (he owns 80%, not just selling naming rights) should make Chinese payoff both easy and untraceable. It always about transactional grift with him. 
    sconosciutosphericwatto_cobra
     3Likes 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 18 of 25
    tundraboy said:
    JFC_PA said:
    Other than suspicions has anyone ever delivered actual proof of any PRC security violations involving TikTok? Relying on Trump, the originator of the entire jihad, is sAd. 
    PRC is a total dictatorship that maintains an adversarial stand against the West.  Even if the PRC is not tapping into the TikTok network and  database right now, there is no institutional roadblock, such as an independent judiciary, that would stop Dictator Xi if he decides that he wants data from TikTok. 

    China doesn't allow US-based social apps to conduct business in China because he doesn't trust the NSA and CIA.  Why should we trust Chinese social apps then, given that the Chinese security apparatus has even less institutional oversight than the NSA and CIA?

    The fact that China doesn't seem to have tapped TikTok for intel and mass manipulation doesn't mean that they can't or won't.



    Now do Russian disinformation disseminated in the US via Meta and Xitter.
    watto_cobrawilliamlondon
     2Likes 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 19 of 25

    tundraboy said:
    The fact that China doesn't seem to have tapped TikTok for intel and mass manipulation doesn't mean that they can't or won't.
    Same "proof"  and same rationalizations that were used to justify the Iraq war. Congratulations on being an obedient bedwetter.
    edited January 19
    muthuk_vanalingammacxpresselijahgwatto_cobrawilliamlondon
     4Likes 1Dislike 0Informatives
  • Reply 20 of 25
    macxpressmacxpress Posts: 5,958member
    tundraboy said:
    JFC_PA said:
    Other than suspicions has anyone ever delivered actual proof of any PRC security violations involving TikTok? Relying on Trump, the originator of the entire jihad, is sAd. 
    PRC is a total dictatorship that maintains an adversarial stand against the West.  Even if the PRC is not tapping into the TikTok network and  database right now, there is no institutional roadblock, such as an independent judiciary, that would stop Dictator Xi if he decides that he wants data from TikTok. 

    China doesn't allow US-based social apps to conduct business in China because he doesn't trust the NSA and CIA.  Why should we trust Chinese social apps then, given that the Chinese security apparatus has even less institutional oversight than the NSA and CIA?

    The fact that China doesn't seem to have tapped TikTok for intel and mass manipulation doesn't mean that they can't or won't.



    Yet it's perfectly okay for US based social media companies to do it though isn't it? And they've already been caught doing it and basically just got a slap on the wrist. It's perfectly okay for US based social media companies to store and sell your data to the highest bidder and god knows what they'll do it with it. It could still end up in the Chinese Government's hands in the end. 
    sphericelijahgwatto_cobra
     3Likes 0Dislikes 0Informatives
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