Next Apple Vision headset may use titanium to cut weight

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in Future Apple Hardware

A new leak claims that Apple's follow up to the Apple Vision Pro will switch from aluminum to titanium to reduce weight, and will come in a black or dark blue color.

A sleek, modern VR headset with a reflective visor and adjustable gray strap displayed on a stand.
The next Apple Vision headset could use titanium, and come in a dark blue



Following a dubious report that Apple Vision Pro 2 will come out in April 2026, a new leak claims that the next headset may not be called Apple Vision Pro at all. It may instead be just called Apple Vision, or possibly Apple Vision Air.

Without specifying a release date, leaker Kosutami has also tweeted that the next headset will be this lighter model.

Our next friend in the Vision lineup is so thin, features titanium to reduce weight, including the connectors and the battery, and all comes with iPhone 5-era black- which looks like graphite dark blue. And be noted: this might not called as ---Pro but you can Air it out.

-- Kosutami (@Kosutami_Ito)



In the thread that follows that tweet, Kosutami further walks this back a little, saying that "most of the outside would be still [sic] aluminum." He or she insists, though, that titanium will be used for a "few of [the] internal structures."

Kosutami is also specific that the move from aluminum to titanium is in order to reduce weight. Titanium is stronger than aluminum, although it's also more expensive.

And, Titanium alloy is denser that Aluminum. A cubic centimeter of titanium comes in at about 4.4 grams. The same volume of Aluminum is 2.7 grams.

Apple does now have more than a year of details about the wear and tear on the Apple Vision Pro headset. So it's feasible that the company has determined it can mix materials to get an optimum mix that sees a lesser volume of titanium doing the job that aluminum does now to achieve that lower overall weight.

As for the "iPhone 5-era black" color that looks like a dark graphite blue, it's also feasible that Apple would want to make a clear visual distinction between its headsets. It does already do so with distinguishing between the iPhone 16 and the iPhone 16 Pro range, for instance.

Note, though, that Kosutami has a mixed track record. This Apple Vision Pro leak sounds like a bit of wishful thinking, but he or she has previously shown some HomePod pre-production images -- and also entirely inaccurate leaks about the Apple Watch.

Rumor Score: Possible

Read on AppleInsider

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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 22
    Surprised to hear Apple go for that color instead of just pure black or grayish-black. So would this be just the VP-Lite/not (not) Air/SE/E?
    williamlondon
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  • Reply 2 of 22
    9secondkox29secondkox2 Posts: 3,378member
    Difficult to see apple producing snother headset. Maybe if the did a super cheap version. But not just changing a few things. 

    Either go all in with glasses for mass market or do the cheap tethered thing, but with great cameras and screens. Otherwise it will just be the same or maybe rvrn worse now that the early adopters are saturated with the expensive version one. 
    twolf2919Wesley_Hilliard
     1Like 1Dislike 0Informatives
  • Reply 3 of 22
    twolf2919twolf2919 Posts: 172member
    Difficult to see apple producing snother headset. Maybe if the did a super cheap version. But not just changing a few things. 

    Either go all in with glasses for mass market or do the cheap tethered thing, but with great cameras and screens. Otherwise it will just be the same or maybe rvrn worse now that the early adopters are saturated with the expensive version one. 
    Agree - I can't imagine Apple doubling-down on a design they know didn't get enough sales.  They need to face reality: there simply isn't much of a mass market for a device costing multiple thousands of dollars that can only really be used in private, since it's too cumbersome to use on the go - and you look like a  complete tool if you do.

    To this day I have no idea why Tim Cook let himself by led into this technological dead end called the Vision Pro.  i remember him clearly stating that Apple's next big thing would be AR glasses.  Somehow he got convinced by someone that these devices must be standalone products rather than an iPhone dependent one like Apple Watch and AirPods.  Unfortunately, that decision meant the future devices needed to cram a lot of CPU power and battery capacity into what needed to be a very light, small device - glasses!  The AVP VR headset became their first stab at it.  But it seems obvious that they will never be able to shrink that down to glasses anyone is willing to wear.

    Google produced useful AR glasses TWELVE years ago.  If Apple hadn't gone down the wrong path, I'm sure they could have developed a sleek, much better product given all the miniaturization that's taken place win a decade.

    Wesley_Hilliardwilliamlondon9secondkox2jas99
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  • Reply 4 of 22
    thttht Posts: 5,902member
    "Our next friend in the Vision lineup is so thin, features titanium to reduce weight, including the connectors and the battery, and all comes with iPhone 5-era black- which looks like graphite dark blue. And be noted: this might not called as ---Pro but you can Air it out."
    Unless there is a translation error, this rumor is bonkers crazy bullshit. Titanium is about 1.67x heavier than aluminum. You may be able to reduce the overall weight of it by using a thinner titanium frame, relative to an aluminum one, but aluminum will still be lighter. This isn't an application that needs a lot of strength. There isn't a win with titanium for this application. Not only that, titanium is perceived, and is, as premium material. It's not sensible to sell it as a down market device relative to the Vision Pro. I'd rate it as "bonkers bullshit" not "possible".

    Their best option imo is to use an A19 Pro, use a more power efficient "R2" packaged inside the A19 Pro, and move it to an audio strap. This eliminates the two fans and a PCB. It might still need a fan to air out the volume between your eyes and the headset. If so, I'd out it in the other audio strap. This will make it thinner and lighter, and needs less pressure against your face.

    They still need to double the resolution of the cameras, increase the PPD of the display by about 50%, increase FOV to, what, 150° (?), and put a battery into the unit. These pass-through headsets won't be mature for a long ways still.

    The glasses form factor is still 10 years away, and it will be worse than the current AVP for everything but the wearability. See-through headsets will come with a whole set of issues. It's not a replacement. It's just another form factor that enables a different set of applications.
    dewmemuthuk_vanalingamretrogusto
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  • Reply 5 of 22
    dewmedewme Posts: 5,995member
    Can't you just mount an eye bolt on top of the headset and tie a helium ballon to it?
    SmittyW
     1Like 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 6 of 22
    Mike Wuerthelemike wuerthele Posts: 7,034administrator
    tht said:
    "Our next friend in the Vision lineup is so thin, features titanium to reduce weight, including the connectors and the battery, and all comes with iPhone 5-era black- which looks like graphite dark blue. And be noted: this might not called as ---Pro but you can Air it out."
    Unless there is a translation error, this rumor is bonkers crazy bullshit. Titanium is about 1.67x heavier than aluminum. You may be able to reduce the overall weight of it by using a thinner titanium frame, relative to an aluminum one, but aluminum will still be lighter. This isn't an application that needs a lot of strength. There isn't a win with titanium for this application. Not only that, titanium is perceived, and is, as premium material. It's not sensible to sell it as a down market device relative to the Vision Pro. I'd rate it as "bonkers bullshit" not "possible".

    Their best option imo is to use an A19 Pro, use a more power efficient "R2" packaged inside the A19 Pro, and move it to an audio strap. This eliminates the two fans and a PCB. It might still need a fan to air out the volume between your eyes and the headset. If so, I'd out it in the other audio strap. This will make it thinner and lighter, and needs less pressure against your face.

    They still need to double the resolution of the cameras, increase the PPD of the display by about 50%, increase FOV to, what, 150° (?), and put a battery into the unit. These pass-through headsets won't be mature for a long ways still.

    The glasses form factor is still 10 years away, and it will be worse than the current AVP for everything but the wearability. See-through headsets will come with a whole set of issues. It's not a replacement. It's just another form factor that enables a different set of applications.
    I'm not sure about "bonkers crazy bullshit" but the density bits are addressed in the piece.

    I tend to agree that there'll be a new processor in whatever the next one is. Which, we'll have to wait and see. I don't think double camera resolution, or a pixel density increase are coming soon, though.
     0Likes 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 7 of 22
    Wesley_Hilliardwesley_hilliard Posts: 458member, administrator, moderator, editor
    Difficult to see apple producing snother headset. Maybe if the did a super cheap version. But not just changing a few things. 

    Either go all in with glasses for mass market or do the cheap tethered thing, but with great cameras and screens. Otherwise it will just be the same or maybe rvrn worse now that the early adopters are saturated with the expensive version one. 
    twolf2919 said:
    Difficult to see apple producing snother headset. Maybe if the did a super cheap version. But not just changing a few things. 

    Either go all in with glasses for mass market or do the cheap tethered thing, but with great cameras and screens. Otherwise it will just be the same or maybe rvrn worse now that the early adopters are saturated with the expensive version one. 
    Agree - I can't imagine Apple doubling-down on a design they know didn't get enough sales.  They need to face reality: there simply isn't much of a mass market for a device costing multiple thousands of dollars that can only really be used in private, since it's too cumbersome to use on the go - and you look like a  complete tool if you do.

    To this day I have no idea why Tim Cook let himself by led into this technological dead end called the Vision Pro.  i remember him clearly stating that Apple's next big thing would be AR glasses.  Somehow he got convinced by someone that these devices must be standalone products rather than an iPhone dependent one like Apple Watch and AirPods.  Unfortunately, that decision meant the future devices needed to cram a lot of CPU power and battery capacity into what needed to be a very light, small device - glasses!  The AVP VR headset became their first stab at it.  But it seems obvious that they will never be able to shrink that down to glasses anyone is willing to wear.

    Google produced useful AR glasses TWELVE years ago.  If Apple hadn't gone down the wrong path, I'm sure they could have developed a sleek, much better product given all the miniaturization that's taken place win a decade.

    Both of your assumptions are based on the idea that Apple sees Apple Vision Pro as some kind of failure. Only Apple knows what its goals for the device were and if it met them or have been satisfied. Your personal opinions are not part of Apple's calculus here.
    twolf2919thtwilliamlondonmattinoz9secondkox2Xedjas99
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  • Reply 8 of 22
    SmittyWsmittyw Posts: 34member
    dewme said:
    Can't you just mount an eye bolt on top of the headset and tie a helium ballon to it?
    Lol, grok just calculated that the diameter of the balloon needed to equalize the weight of the AVP is 1.2 meters, totally doable :)
    williamlondondewme
     1Like 1Dislike 0Informatives
  • Reply 9 of 22
    twolf2919twolf2919 Posts: 172member
    Difficult to see apple producing snother headset. Maybe if the did a super cheap version. But not just changing a few things. 

    Either go all in with glasses for mass market or do the cheap tethered thing, but with great cameras and screens. Otherwise it will just be the same or maybe rvrn worse now that the early adopters are saturated with the expensive version one. 
    twolf2919 said:
    Difficult to see apple producing snother headset. Maybe if the did a super cheap version. But not just changing a few things. 

    Either go all in with glasses for mass market or do the cheap tethered thing, but with great cameras and screens. Otherwise it will just be the same or maybe rvrn worse now that the early adopters are saturated with the expensive version one. 
    Agree - I can't imagine Apple doubling-down on a design they know didn't get enough sales.  They need to face reality: there simply isn't much of a mass market for a device costing multiple thousands of dollars that can only really be used in private, since it's too cumbersome to use on the go - and you look like a  complete tool if you do.

    To this day I have no idea why Tim Cook let himself by led into this technological dead end called the Vision Pro.  i remember him clearly stating that Apple's next big thing would be AR glasses.  Somehow he got convinced by someone that these devices must be standalone products rather than an iPhone dependent one like Apple Watch and AirPods.  Unfortunately, that decision meant the future devices needed to cram a lot of CPU power and battery capacity into what needed to be a very light, small device - glasses!  The AVP VR headset became their first stab at it.  But it seems obvious that they will never be able to shrink that down to glasses anyone is willing to wear.

    Google produced useful AR glasses TWELVE years ago.  If Apple hadn't gone down the wrong path, I'm sure they could have developed a sleek, much better product given all the miniaturization that's taken place win a decade.

    Both of your assumptions are based on the idea that Apple sees Apple Vision Pro as some kind of failure. Only Apple knows what its goals for the device were and if it met them or have been satisfied. Your personal opinions are not part of Apple's calculus here.
    Your statement that "Only Apple knows what its goals were" is not really true.  There were plenty of supply-chain based projections made that indicated Apple wanted to initially make 1m units the first year (e.g. read Financial Times article https://www.ft.com/content/b6f06bde-17b0-4886-b465-b561212c96a9?ref=spyglass.org ) and had to cut that back due to both manufacturing and demand issues.  They ended up making just around 400k units.  Apple stating, after the fact, that they were happy with the demand and they never had mass market goals was just to save face.

    edited April 16
    thtWesley_Hilliardwilliamlondon
     0Likes 3Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 10 of 22
    Wesley_Hilliardwesley_hilliard Posts: 458member, administrator, moderator, editor
    twolf2919 said:
    Difficult to see apple producing snother headset. Maybe if the did a super cheap version. But not just changing a few things. 

    Either go all in with glasses for mass market or do the cheap tethered thing, but with great cameras and screens. Otherwise it will just be the same or maybe rvrn worse now that the early adopters are saturated with the expensive version one. 
    twolf2919 said:
    Difficult to see apple producing snother headset. Maybe if the did a super cheap version. But not just changing a few things. 

    Either go all in with glasses for mass market or do the cheap tethered thing, but with great cameras and screens. Otherwise it will just be the same or maybe rvrn worse now that the early adopters are saturated with the expensive version one. 
    Agree - I can't imagine Apple doubling-down on a design they know didn't get enough sales.  They need to face reality: there simply isn't much of a mass market for a device costing multiple thousands of dollars that can only really be used in private, since it's too cumbersome to use on the go - and you look like a  complete tool if you do.

    To this day I have no idea why Tim Cook let himself by led into this technological dead end called the Vision Pro.  i remember him clearly stating that Apple's next big thing would be AR glasses.  Somehow he got convinced by someone that these devices must be standalone products rather than an iPhone dependent one like Apple Watch and AirPods.  Unfortunately, that decision meant the future devices needed to cram a lot of CPU power and battery capacity into what needed to be a very light, small device - glasses!  The AVP VR headset became their first stab at it.  But it seems obvious that they will never be able to shrink that down to glasses anyone is willing to wear.

    Google produced useful AR glasses TWELVE years ago.  If Apple hadn't gone down the wrong path, I'm sure they could have developed a sleek, much better product given all the miniaturization that's taken place win a decade.

    Both of your assumptions are based on the idea that Apple sees Apple Vision Pro as some kind of failure. Only Apple knows what its goals for the device were and if it met them or have been satisfied. Your personal opinions are not part of Apple's calculus here.
    Your statement that "Only Apple knows what its goals were" is not really true.  There were plenty of supply-chain based projections made that indicated Apple wanted to initially make 1m units the first year (e.g. read Financial Times article https://www.ft.com/content/b6f06bde-17b0-4886-b465-b561212c96a9?ref=spyglass.org ) and had to cut that back due to both manufacturing and demand issues.  They ended up making just around 400k units.  Apple stating, after the fact, that they were happy with the demand and they never had mass market goals was just to save face.

    1 million always seemed like a moonshot given reports that Sony could only produce enough displays for half that number. Again, Financial Times doesn't know what Apple's goals were. Supply chain data gives some hints, if it is accurate, but again, it still doesn't reveal Apple's true internal goals. It has numbers based on how many it made and shipped, the price, and the rollout globally. Only Apple knows if it met those expectations or not, and continued work on the future models and executives willing to even acknowledge the Vision Pro exists are positive signs.

    A report from the Financial Times isn't part of Apple's calculus here. Something I've noticed is that people tend to declare something a failure simply because it is a product they aren't going to buy, or have bought and regret.

    There's a solid chance that Apple's internal goals were actually exceeded since this first generation model likely only exists to get a larger sample of users to help discover use cases and bugs that can't be found by a few hundred employees. The next models will make or break the product line, sales wise.
    williamlondon9secondkox2jas99
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  • Reply 11 of 22
    thttht Posts: 5,902member
    twolf2919 said:
    Difficult to see apple producing snother headset. Maybe if the did a super cheap version. But not just changing a few things. 

    Either go all in with glasses for mass market or do the cheap tethered thing, but with great cameras and screens. Otherwise it will just be the same or maybe rvrn worse now that the early adopters are saturated with the expensive version one. 
    twolf2919 said:
    Difficult to see apple producing snother headset. Maybe if the did a super cheap version. But not just changing a few things. 

    Either go all in with glasses for mass market or do the cheap tethered thing, but with great cameras and screens. Otherwise it will just be the same or maybe rvrn worse now that the early adopters are saturated with the expensive version one. 
    Agree - I can't imagine Apple doubling-down on a design they know didn't get enough sales.  They need to face reality: there simply isn't much of a mass market for a device costing multiple thousands of dollars that can only really be used in private, since it's too cumbersome to use on the go - and you look like a  complete tool if you do.

    To this day I have no idea why Tim Cook let himself by led into this technological dead end called the Vision Pro.  i remember him clearly stating that Apple's next big thing would be AR glasses.  Somehow he got convinced by someone that these devices must be standalone products rather than an iPhone dependent one like Apple Watch and AirPods.  Unfortunately, that decision meant the future devices needed to cram a lot of CPU power and battery capacity into what needed to be a very light, small device - glasses!  The AVP VR headset became their first stab at it.  But it seems obvious that they will never be able to shrink that down to glasses anyone is willing to wear.

    Google produced useful AR glasses TWELVE years ago.  If Apple hadn't gone down the wrong path, I'm sure they could have developed a sleek, much better product given all the miniaturization that's taken place win a decade.

    Both of your assumptions are based on the idea that Apple sees Apple Vision Pro as some kind of failure. Only Apple knows what its goals for the device were and if it met them or have been satisfied. Your personal opinions are not part of Apple's calculus here.
    Your statement that "Only Apple knows what its goals were" is not really true.  There were plenty of supply-chain based projections made that indicated Apple wanted to initially make 1m units the first year (e.g. read Financial Times article https://www.ft.com/content/b6f06bde-17b0-4886-b465-b561212c96a9?ref=spyglass.org ) and had to cut that back due to both manufacturing and demand issues.  They ended up making just around 400k units.  Apple stating, after the fact, that they were happy with the demand and they never had mass market goals was just to save face.

    Wayne Ma, from the Information, had the definitive bit of information on the number of Vision Pro units that could be sold, 6 to 12 months before the AVP started shipping. 

    His rumor was that Sony could only produce from 800k to 1m microOLED displays (or OLEDoS) in 2024, and they weren’t going to increase capacity for more. There are 2 microOLED displays in an AVP, hence the number of units Apple could sell was less than 500k units, depending on yield. 

    I bet FT is confusing the difference between the number of microOLED displays Sony could produce to the number of AVP units that could be produced. 

    MicroOLED or OLEDoS are displays built on silicon. They are using a process similar to CMOS computer chips for these microOLED displays. This type of technology just isn’t spun up fast and requires a lot of investment money. No surprise Sony is taking this slow. And no surprise Apple isn’t willing to front the billions for new capacity. 

    Other units that use microOLEDs are typically at half the PPI, 1700 compared to the AVP’s 3400, and more mature and cheaper. That’s why the rumor for cheaper Vision headsets are at 1500 to 1700 PPI. 
    tmaymattinozHobeSoundDarryl
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  • Reply 12 of 22
    dewmedewme Posts: 5,995member
    SmittyW said:
    dewme said:
    Can't you just mount an eye bolt on top of the headset and tie a helium ballon to it?
    Lol, grok just calculated that the diameter of the balloon needed to equalize the weight of the AVP is 1.2 meters, totally doable :)
    Awesome. Users will just have use it in rooms that don’t have ceiling fans. When used outside it’ll have to be tethered to your belt so taking it off isn’t a one-time experience.  I suppose you could also attach a rope to the eye bolt and tie the rope to an adjustable rolling IV pole that has an extended arm. Hang the power pack from the pole too. Two problems solved. 
    muthuk_vanalingam
     1Like 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 13 of 22
    9secondkox29secondkox2 Posts: 3,378member
    Difficult to see apple producing snother headset. Maybe if the did a super cheap version. But not just changing a few things. 

    Either go all in with glasses for mass market or do the cheap tethered thing, but with great cameras and screens. Otherwise it will just be the same or maybe rvrn worse now that the early adopters are saturated with the expensive version one. 
    twolf2919 said:
    Difficult to see apple producing snother headset. Maybe if the did a super cheap version. But not just changing a few things. 

    Either go all in with glasses for mass market or do the cheap tethered thing, but with great cameras and screens. Otherwise it will just be the same or maybe rvrn worse now that the early adopters are saturated with the expensive version one. 
    Agree - I can't imagine Apple doubling-down on a design they know didn't get enough sales.  They need to face reality: there simply isn't much of a mass market for a device costing multiple thousands of dollars that can only really be used in private, since it's too cumbersome to use on the go - and you look like a  complete tool if you do.

    To this day I have no idea why Tim Cook let himself by led into this technological dead end called the Vision Pro.  i remember him clearly stating that Apple's next big thing would be AR glasses.  Somehow he got convinced by someone that these devices must be standalone products rather than an iPhone dependent one like Apple Watch and AirPods.  Unfortunately, that decision meant the future devices needed to cram a lot of CPU power and battery capacity into what needed to be a very light, small device - glasses!  The AVP VR headset became their first stab at it.  But it seems obvious that they will never be able to shrink that down to glasses anyone is willing to wear.

    Google produced useful AR glasses TWELVE years ago.  If Apple hadn't gone down the wrong path, I'm sure they could have developed a sleek, much better product given all the miniaturization that's taken place win a decade.

    Both of your assumptions are based on the idea that Apple sees Apple Vision Pro as some kind of failure. Only Apple knows what its goals for the device were and if it met them or have been satisfied. Your personal opinions are not part of Apple's calculus here.
    Tim Cook shouting its praises well ahead of launch and pushing it as the next big thing only to be met with a teoid response. Cook was reduced to calling it an early adopter product, etc. 

    apple most definitely views it the way everyone else does - a flop. Of course apple won’t publicly state that. They still have to sell the thing snd don’t want to be viewed as having made another mistake. 

    I know you are personally a customer and a fan. But for most everyone else, it’s…a headset. And headsets just aren’t it. Never have been and aren’t now. Any further investment in headsets is foolish. When it’s a pair of glasses/sunglasses, that would be big. And if apple doesn’t want to innovate to that degree, they can arill do a headset, but tether it to a Mac or iPhone/ipad while reducing features in order to make the niche device priced accordingly. A 499 device would probably find its way in most apple customers’s lives. Continuing along the lines of the current VP will see it continue its downward trajectory. 

    Many of us called it back when it was just a rumor. Headsets just aren’t going anywhere meaningful and crazy expensive headsets doubly so. 

    A cheap headset would fare better. But glasses /shades would be the ultimate form of the Vision Pro concept. If done right, they could fit in anyone’s lifestyle and would likely be widely adopted. 

    Wesley_Hilliard
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  • Reply 14 of 22
    mattinozmattinoz Posts: 2,608member
    Difficult to see apple producing snother headset. Maybe if the did a super cheap version. But not just changing a few things. 

    Either go all in with glasses for mass market or do the cheap tethered thing, but with great cameras and screens. Otherwise it will just be the same or maybe rvrn worse now that the early adopters are saturated with the expensive version one. 
    twolf2919 said:
    Difficult to see apple producing snother headset. Maybe if the did a super cheap version. But not just changing a few things. 

    Either go all in with glasses for mass market or do the cheap tethered thing, but with great cameras and screens. Otherwise it will just be the same or maybe rvrn worse now that the early adopters are saturated with the expensive version one. 
    Agree - I can't imagine Apple doubling-down on a design they know didn't get enough sales.  They need to face reality: there simply isn't much of a mass market for a device costing multiple thousands of dollars that can only really be used in private, since it's too cumbersome to use on the go - and you look like a  complete tool if you do.

    To this day I have no idea why Tim Cook let himself by led into this technological dead end called the Vision Pro.  i remember him clearly stating that Apple's next big thing would be AR glasses.  Somehow he got convinced by someone that these devices must be standalone products rather than an iPhone dependent one like Apple Watch and AirPods.  Unfortunately, that decision meant the future devices needed to cram a lot of CPU power and battery capacity into what needed to be a very light, small device - glasses!  The AVP VR headset became their first stab at it.  But it seems obvious that they will never be able to shrink that down to glasses anyone is willing to wear.

    Google produced useful AR glasses TWELVE years ago.  If Apple hadn't gone down the wrong path, I'm sure they could have developed a sleek, much better product given all the miniaturization that's taken place win a decade.

    Both of your assumptions are based on the idea that Apple sees Apple Vision Pro as some kind of failure. Only Apple knows what its goals for the device were and if it met them or have been satisfied. Your personal opinions are not part of Apple's calculus here.
    Tim Cook shouting its praises well ahead of launch and pushing it as the next big thing only to be met with a teoid response. Cook was reduced to calling it an early adopter product, etc. 

    apple most definitely views it the way everyone else does - a flop. Of course apple won’t publicly state that. They still have to sell the thing snd don’t want to be viewed as having made another mistake. 

    I know you are personally a customer and a fan. But for most everyone else, it’s…a headset. And headsets just aren’t it. Never have been and aren’t now. Any further investment in headsets is foolish. When it’s a pair of glasses/sunglasses, that would be big. And if apple doesn’t want to innovate to that degree, they can arill do a headset, but tether it to a Mac or iPhone/ipad while reducing features in order to make the niche device priced accordingly. A 499 device would probably find its way in most apple customers’s lives. Continuing along the lines of the current VP will see it continue its downward trajectory. 

    Many of us called it back when it was just a rumor. Headsets just aren’t going anywhere meaningful and crazy expensive headsets doubly so. 

    A cheap headset would fare better. But glasses /shades would be the ultimate form of the Vision Pro concept. If done right, they could fit in anyone’s lifestyle and would likely be widely adopted. 

    Can you point to a quote of Tim Cook suggesting it was a mass market product because the launch key note and a couple of things I’ve found are very clear they are calling it the start of journey like the Mac and the iPhone were the start of journeys?

    so later when is quoted saying "Right now, it's an early-adopter product. People who want to have tomorrow's technology today—that's who it's for. Fortunately, there's enough people who are in that camp that it's exciting."

    that seems very much a supportive clarification of what was said at launch than admitting defeat like many doomsayers want to bill it as. 
    thtmacgui
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  • Reply 15 of 22
    macguimacgui Posts: 2,553member
    Surprised to hear Apple go for that color instead of just pure black or grayish-black. So would this be just the VP-Lite/not (not) Air/SE/E?
    Who says Apple is going to that color? You just read an article discussing things said by a "leaker" of mediocre accuracy and their feasibility as a rumor. Nothing in the article substantiates Apple actually "going to" that color.
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  • Reply 16 of 22
    9secondkox29secondkox2 Posts: 3,378member
    mattinoz said:
    Difficult to see apple producing snother headset. Maybe if the did a super cheap version. But not just changing a few things. 

    Either go all in with glasses for mass market or do the cheap tethered thing, but with great cameras and screens. Otherwise it will just be the same or maybe rvrn worse now that the early adopters are saturated with the expensive version one. 
    twolf2919 said:
    Difficult to see apple producing snother headset. Maybe if the did a super cheap version. But not just changing a few things. 

    Either go all in with glasses for mass market or do the cheap tethered thing, but with great cameras and screens. Otherwise it will just be the same or maybe rvrn worse now that the early adopters are saturated with the expensive version one. 
    Agree - I can't imagine Apple doubling-down on a design they know didn't get enough sales.  They need to face reality: there simply isn't much of a mass market for a device costing multiple thousands of dollars that can only really be used in private, since it's too cumbersome to use on the go - and you look like a  complete tool if you do.

    To this day I have no idea why Tim Cook let himself by led into this technological dead end called the Vision Pro.  i remember him clearly stating that Apple's next big thing would be AR glasses.  Somehow he got convinced by someone that these devices must be standalone products rather than an iPhone dependent one like Apple Watch and AirPods.  Unfortunately, that decision meant the future devices needed to cram a lot of CPU power and battery capacity into what needed to be a very light, small device - glasses!  The AVP VR headset became their first stab at it.  But it seems obvious that they will never be able to shrink that down to glasses anyone is willing to wear.

    Google produced useful AR glasses TWELVE years ago.  If Apple hadn't gone down the wrong path, I'm sure they could have developed a sleek, much better product given all the miniaturization that's taken place win a decade.

    Both of your assumptions are based on the idea that Apple sees Apple Vision Pro as some kind of failure. Only Apple knows what its goals for the device were and if it met them or have been satisfied. Your personal opinions are not part of Apple's calculus here.
    Tim Cook shouting its praises well ahead of launch and pushing it as the next big thing only to be met with a teoid response. Cook was reduced to calling it an early adopter product, etc. 

    apple most definitely views it the way everyone else does - a flop. Of course apple won’t publicly state that. They still have to sell the thing snd don’t want to be viewed as having made another mistake. 

    I know you are personally a customer and a fan. But for most everyone else, it’s…a headset. And headsets just aren’t it. Never have been and aren’t now. Any further investment in headsets is foolish. When it’s a pair of glasses/sunglasses, that would be big. And if apple doesn’t want to innovate to that degree, they can arill do a headset, but tether it to a Mac or iPhone/ipad while reducing features in order to make the niche device priced accordingly. A 499 device would probably find its way in most apple customers’s lives. Continuing along the lines of the current VP will see it continue its downward trajectory. 

    Many of us called it back when it was just a rumor. Headsets just aren’t going anywhere meaningful and crazy expensive headsets doubly so. 

    A cheap headset would fare better. But glasses /shades would be the ultimate form of the Vision Pro concept. If done right, they could fit in anyone’s lifestyle and would likely be widely adopted. 

    Can you point to a quote of Tim Cook suggesting it was a mass market product because the launch key note and a couple of things I’ve found are very clear they are calling it the start of journey like the Mac and the iPhone were the start of journeys?

    so later when is quoted saying "Right now, it's an early-adopter product. People who want to have tomorrow's technology today—that's who it's for. Fortunately, there's enough people who are in that camp that it's exciting."

    that seems very much a supportive clarification of what was said at launch than admitting defeat like many doomsayers want to bill it as. 
    Tim Cook never refers to products as “mass market” etc. they just are. 

    It’s only when they aren’t a huge hit that we get the qualifiers:

    Apple TV was a “hobby” according to jobs. 

    Scuba gear was a ln “early adopter” product according to cook. 

    Apple makes great things. Rarely they don’t land thst well. The headset was never going to be big. 
    Wesley_Hilliard
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  • Reply 17 of 22
    Wesley_Hilliardwesley_hilliard Posts: 458member, administrator, moderator, editor
    Difficult to see apple producing snother headset. Maybe if the did a super cheap version. But not just changing a few things. 

    Either go all in with glasses for mass market or do the cheap tethered thing, but with great cameras and screens. Otherwise it will just be the same or maybe rvrn worse now that the early adopters are saturated with the expensive version one. 
    twolf2919 said:
    Difficult to see apple producing snother headset. Maybe if the did a super cheap version. But not just changing a few things. 

    Either go all in with glasses for mass market or do the cheap tethered thing, but with great cameras and screens. Otherwise it will just be the same or maybe rvrn worse now that the early adopters are saturated with the expensive version one. 
    Agree - I can't imagine Apple doubling-down on a design they know didn't get enough sales.  They need to face reality: there simply isn't much of a mass market for a device costing multiple thousands of dollars that can only really be used in private, since it's too cumbersome to use on the go - and you look like a  complete tool if you do.

    To this day I have no idea why Tim Cook let himself by led into this technological dead end called the Vision Pro.  i remember him clearly stating that Apple's next big thing would be AR glasses.  Somehow he got convinced by someone that these devices must be standalone products rather than an iPhone dependent one like Apple Watch and AirPods.  Unfortunately, that decision meant the future devices needed to cram a lot of CPU power and battery capacity into what needed to be a very light, small device - glasses!  The AVP VR headset became their first stab at it.  But it seems obvious that they will never be able to shrink that down to glasses anyone is willing to wear.

    Google produced useful AR glasses TWELVE years ago.  If Apple hadn't gone down the wrong path, I'm sure they could have developed a sleek, much better product given all the miniaturization that's taken place win a decade.

    Both of your assumptions are based on the idea that Apple sees Apple Vision Pro as some kind of failure. Only Apple knows what its goals for the device were and if it met them or have been satisfied. Your personal opinions are not part of Apple's calculus here.
    Tim Cook shouting its praises well ahead of launch and pushing it as the next big thing only to be met with a teoid response. Cook was reduced to calling it an early adopter product, etc. 

    apple most definitely views it the way everyone else does - a flop. Of course apple won’t publicly state that. They still have to sell the thing snd don’t want to be viewed as having made another mistake. 

    I know you are personally a customer and a fan. But for most everyone else, it’s…a headset. And headsets just aren’t it. Never have been and aren’t now. Any further investment in headsets is foolish. When it’s a pair of glasses/sunglasses, that would be big. And if apple doesn’t want to innovate to that degree, they can arill do a headset, but tether it to a Mac or iPhone/ipad while reducing features in order to make the niche device priced accordingly. A 499 device would probably find its way in most apple customers’s lives. Continuing along the lines of the current VP will see it continue its downward trajectory. 

    Many of us called it back when it was just a rumor. Headsets just aren’t going anywhere meaningful and crazy expensive headsets doubly so. 

    A cheap headset would fare better. But glasses /shades would be the ultimate form of the Vision Pro concept. If done right, they could fit in anyone’s lifestyle and would likely be widely adopted. 

    mattinoz said:
    Difficult to see apple producing snother headset. Maybe if the did a super cheap version. But not just changing a few things. 

    Either go all in with glasses for mass market or do the cheap tethered thing, but with great cameras and screens. Otherwise it will just be the same or maybe rvrn worse now that the early adopters are saturated with the expensive version one. 
    twolf2919 said:
    Difficult to see apple producing snother headset. Maybe if the did a super cheap version. But not just changing a few things. 

    Either go all in with glasses for mass market or do the cheap tethered thing, but with great cameras and screens. Otherwise it will just be the same or maybe rvrn worse now that the early adopters are saturated with the expensive version one. 
    Agree - I can't imagine Apple doubling-down on a design they know didn't get enough sales.  They need to face reality: there simply isn't much of a mass market for a device costing multiple thousands of dollars that can only really be used in private, since it's too cumbersome to use on the go - and you look like a  complete tool if you do.

    To this day I have no idea why Tim Cook let himself by led into this technological dead end called the Vision Pro.  i remember him clearly stating that Apple's next big thing would be AR glasses.  Somehow he got convinced by someone that these devices must be standalone products rather than an iPhone dependent one like Apple Watch and AirPods.  Unfortunately, that decision meant the future devices needed to cram a lot of CPU power and battery capacity into what needed to be a very light, small device - glasses!  The AVP VR headset became their first stab at it.  But it seems obvious that they will never be able to shrink that down to glasses anyone is willing to wear.

    Google produced useful AR glasses TWELVE years ago.  If Apple hadn't gone down the wrong path, I'm sure they could have developed a sleek, much better product given all the miniaturization that's taken place win a decade.

    Both of your assumptions are based on the idea that Apple sees Apple Vision Pro as some kind of failure. Only Apple knows what its goals for the device were and if it met them or have been satisfied. Your personal opinions are not part of Apple's calculus here.
    Tim Cook shouting its praises well ahead of launch and pushing it as the next big thing only to be met with a teoid response. Cook was reduced to calling it an early adopter product, etc. 

    apple most definitely views it the way everyone else does - a flop. Of course apple won’t publicly state that. They still have to sell the thing snd don’t want to be viewed as having made another mistake. 

    I know you are personally a customer and a fan. But for most everyone else, it’s…a headset. And headsets just aren’t it. Never have been and aren’t now. Any further investment in headsets is foolish. When it’s a pair of glasses/sunglasses, that would be big. And if apple doesn’t want to innovate to that degree, they can arill do a headset, but tether it to a Mac or iPhone/ipad while reducing features in order to make the niche device priced accordingly. A 499 device would probably find its way in most apple customers’s lives. Continuing along the lines of the current VP will see it continue its downward trajectory. 

    Many of us called it back when it was just a rumor. Headsets just aren’t going anywhere meaningful and crazy expensive headsets doubly so. 

    A cheap headset would fare better. But glasses /shades would be the ultimate form of the Vision Pro concept. If done right, they could fit in anyone’s lifestyle and would likely be widely adopted. 

    Can you point to a quote of Tim Cook suggesting it was a mass market product because the launch key note and a couple of things I’ve found are very clear they are calling it the start of journey like the Mac and the iPhone were the start of journeys?

    so later when is quoted saying "Right now, it's an early-adopter product. People who want to have tomorrow's technology today—that's who it's for. Fortunately, there's enough people who are in that camp that it's exciting."

    that seems very much a supportive clarification of what was said at launch than admitting defeat like many doomsayers want to bill it as. 
    Tim Cook never refers to products as “mass market” etc. they just are. 

    It’s only when they aren’t a huge hit that we get the qualifiers:

    Apple TV was a “hobby” according to jobs. 

    Scuba gear was a ln “early adopter” product according to cook. 

    Apple makes great things. Rarely they don’t land thst well. The headset was never going to be big. 
    Booth of these statements are, again, your opinion. And regardless of your opinion, Apple Vision Pro isn't going anywhere. Cook seems to be single minded in pushing for glasses, but I expect it'll be some time before those arrive in any form more substantial than Meta Ray Bans, which are just AirPods that cover your eyes.
    williamlondon
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  • Reply 18 of 22
    mpantonempantone Posts: 2,414member
    dewme said:
    Can't you just mount an eye bolt on top of the headset and tie a helium ballon to it?
    That's not so farfetched. VR HMDs in the Nineties often were hung from the ceiling with cables because the headset hardware was way too heavy to be worn without support. I believe the Aladdin Magic Carpet ride at Disneyworld's EPCOT Center was like this.

    In the end, VR HMDs need to get ultralight. There are tons of people who hate googles, headphones, anything that binds or pinches their head. Heck, I wear eyeglasses and periodically take them off for some relief; they weigh 30 grams. I also own an Oculus Rift S HMD and I can't wear it more than 40-45 minutes tops. The Rift S is *WAY* lighter than the Apple Vision Pro.

    It'll be years before the technology is to the point where we'll have a useful pair of AR glasses with decent battery life at a consumer-friendly price (let's say comparable to Apple Watch).

    You really need nearly all day battery performance from AR glasses particularly for those with prescription lenses. No one who wears glasses likes shuffling between various pairs which is why we have bifocal, trifocal, and progressive lenses (and photochromic lenses).

    The same comfort shortcomings for VR HMDs thirty years ago are still serious impediments to widespread adoption of today's devices. And some of the basic requirements of VR HMDs (like a light tight seal to improve immersion) don't seem to have any obvious solutions. There are also issues with air circulation, eyestrain, and more. VR pundits always say that newer technology that fixes these shortcomings is right around the corner and they've been saying that for decades.

    But companies should keep trying even if they fail like Google Glass did. There are serious implications about privacy and security with smart glasses that society needs to understand and figure out for we see widespread acceptance because we've already seen the petulant entitled behavior of "Glassh-les". Remember that AR glasses and VR HMDs have completely different primary goals.

    How many theaters in your neighborhood still screen 3D movies? And you still using that 3D television set? Yeah, I thought so.

    At some point VR HMDs will largely go away because a better VR experience will be some sort of holographic environment instead of a head mounted visual display. And something will need to be done about haptic feedback, tactile response, etc. A cybersuit is limiting and restrictive like a VR HMD. Just ask anyone who has worn a wetsuit. And how easy is it to launder a cybersuit? I know how easy it is to wash a wetsuit. And like everyone else who owns a wetsuit, I know what getting into a clammy, cold, and damp wetsuit feels like.

    Most likely AR glasses, VR HMDs, and holographic environments will all co-exist in some way. Some of these technologies will be better for some situations than others in the same way that speakers, headphones, earbuds, etc. are used in various ways.

    But for sure the comfort and battery issues must be addressed. One reason why we all have smartphones is because they fit in our pockets and they run all day. They're not like the early cellphones of the Eighties that were the size of a lunchbox. Many of them hogged up so much power that people just kept them in their cars.
    edited April 17
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  • Reply 19 of 22
    welshdogwelshdog Posts: 1,924member
    They should use Beryllium alloy for the chassis. Strong and light and only toxic a little bit.
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  • Reply 20 of 22
    mpantonempantone Posts: 2,414member
    welshdog said:
    They should use Beryllium alloy for the chassis. Strong and light and only toxic a little bit.
    And how much will Beryllium alloy add to COGS? I will ignore the comment about toxicity for the moment which isn't really a selling point. But you brought it up which might be something you'll regret.
    edited April 17
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