DOJ goes after US citizen for developing anti-ICE app

2»

Comments

  • Reply 21 of 34
    9secondkox29secondkox2 Posts: 3,670member
    Great. Obstruction of justice is a criminal offense. Doesn't matter if it's done via an app or not. 
    Wesley_HilliardMplsP
     0Likes 2Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 22 of 34
    9secondkox29secondkox2 Posts: 3,670member
    pixeltini said:
    Hmm, who could have guessed interfering with law enforcement efforts would be illegal? It's no different than attempting to block a police vehicle doing its duty to protect Americans against those who would do us harm. You know… gang members, drug dealers, convicted felons, cartel thugs, human traffickers, and so on.

    And let's call out the specious idea that Ice Block is no different than a radar detector or warning drivers of a speed trap. A speed zone warning is an alert to POTENTIAL law breakers. Ice Block interferes with police efforts to apprehend individuals who have ALREADY BROKEN AT LEAST ONE LAW. Do you see the difference? Well do you?

    Pardon me for using logic and pointing out the obvious. Now go ahead and hurl the Leftist phrases you learned from CNN.
    It is exactly what I have bolded. Courts for decades have upheld the right of people to do exactly that. Apple Maps now will warn you of a speed trap, and the administration doesn't seem to care about that.

    Why? Because it's legal. Because ruling after ruling, it's been ruled as protected by the first amendment. 

    So has freedom of the press, which is what the administration is apparently more pissed about.
    Totally different issues. 

    The key difference between the red light / speed trap warnings is that they help limit the POTENTIAL of committing a crime/violation - it's actually a great deterrent - whereas ICE raids are about addressing ALREADY COMMITTED crime/violations. You can't deter an already committed crime. 

    Speed trap warnings in Apple Maps are helpful to avoid breaking the law and getting busted for it. ICE maps apps are simply helping criminals get away with crime. Huge difference. 

    You don't aid and abet a criminal in escaping the police during a raid or chase. In the same way, you don't aid and abet illegal aliens to escape the law.  

    This is likely not going to go well for the maker of the app. 
    edited July 8
    thtMike Wuerthele
     0Likes 2Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 23 of 34
    IreneWirenew Posts: 318member
    pixeltini said:
    Hmm, who could have guessed interfering with law enforcement efforts would be illegal? It's no different than attempting to block a police vehicle doing its duty to protect Americans against those who would do us harm. You know… gang members, drug dealers, convicted felons, cartel thugs, human traffickers, and so on.

    And let's call out the specious idea that Ice Block is no different than a radar detector or warning drivers of a speed trap. A speed zone warning is an alert to POTENTIAL law breakers. Ice Block interferes with police efforts to apprehend individuals who have ALREADY BROKEN AT LEAST ONE LAW. Do you see the difference? Well do you?

    Pardon me for using logic and pointing out the obvious. Now go ahead and hurl the Leftist phrases you learned from CNN.
    It is exactly what I have bolded. Courts for decades have upheld the right of people to do exactly that. Apple Maps now will warn you of a speed trap, and the administration doesn't seem to care about that.

    Why? Because it's legal. Because ruling after ruling, it's been ruled as protected by the first amendment. 

    So has freedom of the press, which is what the administration is apparently more pissed about.
    Totally different issues. 

    The key difference between the red light / speed trap warnings is that they help limit the POTENTIAL of committing a crime/violation - it's actually a great deterrent - whereas ICE raids are about addressing ALREADY COMMITTED crime/violations. You can't deter an already committed crime. 

    Speed trap warnings in Apple Maps are helpful to avoid breaking the law and getting busted for it. ICE maps apps are simply helping criminals get away with crime. Huge difference. 

    You don't aid and abet a criminal in escaping the police during a raid or chase. In the same way, you don't aid and abet illegal aliens to escape the law.  

    This is likely not going to go well for the maker of the app. 
    Are they really that different? If you are actually always driving at legal speeds, then you do not need the trap warnings. Reducing the speed thanks to the Apple Maps warning means you just committed a crime.

    I won't throw the first stone, I admit to be guilty of doing this.

    9secondkox2
     0Likes 1Dislike 0Informatives
  • Reply 24 of 34
    mattinozmattinoz Posts: 2,680member
    Great. Obstruction of justice is a criminal offense. Doesn't matter if it's done via an app or not. 
    Hasn’t been established as justice to be obstructed…
    no warrants, no badges, no probable cause, held on no charge, with no hearings, no representation, with unreasonable seizure of property and liberty by masked persons not willing to demonstrate they have authority. 


    thtMplsP
     2Likes 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 25 of 34
    sphericspheric Posts: 2,800member
    dogolaca said:
    pixeltini said:
    Hmm, who could have guessed interfering with law enforcement efforts would be illegal? It's no different than attempting to block a police vehicle doing its duty to protect Americans against those who would do us harm. You know… gang members, drug dealers, convicted felons, cartel thugs, human traffickers, and so on.

    You forgot to include car washers, tacqueros, seamstress, day laborers and people waiting for the bus in your list of the dangerous people that the racist TrumpMiller goons are kidnapping.
    Also doctors, nurses, PhD students, cardiologists, medical research scientists, surgeons, journalists…
    dogolacadewme
     2Likes 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 26 of 34
    pixeltini said:
    Hmm, who could have guessed interfering with law enforcement efforts would be illegal? It's no different than attempting to block a police vehicle doing its duty to protect Americans against those who would do us harm. You know… gang members, drug dealers, convicted felons, cartel thugs, human traffickers, and so on.

    And let's call out the specious idea that Ice Block is no different than a radar detector or warning drivers of a speed trap. A speed zone warning is an alert to POTENTIAL law breakers. Ice Block interferes with police efforts to apprehend individuals who have ALREADY BROKEN AT LEAST ONE LAW. Do you see the difference? Well do you?

    Pardon me for using logic and pointing out the obvious. Now go ahead and hurl the Leftist phrases you learned from CNN.
    It is exactly what I have bolded. Courts for decades have upheld the right of people to do exactly that. Apple Maps now will warn you of a speed trap, and the administration doesn't seem to care about that.

    Why? Because it's legal. Because ruling after ruling, it's been ruled as protected by the first amendment. 

    So has freedom of the press, which is what the administration is apparently more pissed about.
    Totally different issues. 

    The key difference between the red light / speed trap warnings is that they help limit the POTENTIAL of committing a crime/violation - it's actually a great deterrent - whereas ICE raids are about addressing ALREADY COMMITTED crime/violations. You can't deter an already committed crime. 

    Speed trap warnings in Apple Maps are helpful to avoid breaking the law and getting busted for it. ICE maps apps are simply helping criminals get away with crime. Huge difference. 

    You don't aid and abet a criminal in escaping the police during a raid or chase. In the same way, you don't aid and abet illegal aliens to escape the law.  

    This is likely not going to go well for the maker of the app. 
    Don't let your fevered dreams of living in an authoritarian police state get ahead of you. 

    People detained by ICE are entitled to due process and presumed innocent in the eyes of the law. Your claim that they have already committed crimes is antithetical to the U.S. system of justice. 

    The app doesn't aid and abet anything. People can post when they see ICE officers. There are no shortage of apps that tip people off to the location law enforcement. It isn't illegal and falls squarely under the First Amendment. This has been litigated and the courts have consistently ruled on the side of free speech. 

    The app is fine, if the DOJ had a case they would have brought it. 

    Congrats on kneeling to authoritarianism and arguing against our constitutional rights.
    mattinozgatorguythtmuthuk_vanalingamspheric9secondkox2
     5Likes 1Dislike 0Informatives
  • Reply 27 of 34
    Mike Wuerthelemike wuerthele Posts: 7,186administrator
    pixeltini said:
    Hmm, who could have guessed interfering with law enforcement efforts would be illegal? It's no different than attempting to block a police vehicle doing its duty to protect Americans against those who would do us harm. You know… gang members, drug dealers, convicted felons, cartel thugs, human traffickers, and so on.

    And let's call out the specious idea that Ice Block is no different than a radar detector or warning drivers of a speed trap. A speed zone warning is an alert to POTENTIAL law breakers. Ice Block interferes with police efforts to apprehend individuals who have ALREADY BROKEN AT LEAST ONE LAW. Do you see the difference? Well do you?

    Pardon me for using logic and pointing out the obvious. Now go ahead and hurl the Leftist phrases you learned from CNN.
    It is exactly what I have bolded. Courts for decades have upheld the right of people to do exactly that. Apple Maps now will warn you of a speed trap, and the administration doesn't seem to care about that.

    Why? Because it's legal. Because ruling after ruling, it's been ruled as protected by the first amendment. 

    So has freedom of the press, which is what the administration is apparently more pissed about.
    Totally different issues. 

    The key difference between the red light / speed trap warnings is that they help limit the POTENTIAL of committing a crime/violation - it's actually a great deterrent - whereas ICE raids are about addressing ALREADY COMMITTED crime/violations. You can't deter an already committed crime. 

    Speed trap warnings in Apple Maps are helpful to avoid breaking the law and getting busted for it. ICE maps apps are simply helping criminals get away with crime. Huge difference. 

    You don't aid and abet a criminal in escaping the police during a raid or chase. In the same way, you don't aid and abet illegal aliens to escape the law.  

    This is likely not going to go well for the maker of the app. 
    Nope. Your logic is flawed. A speed trap is literally set up to catch speeders in the act, not to deter, as the police have argued in court for decades. ICE raids are literally the same.

    In either case, you're supposed to get the presumption of innocence.

    This will go fine for the maker of the app, assuming that the Supreme Court actually gives a shit about the First Amendment versus fealty to the president, and adheres to literally decades of precedent that the Supreme Court itself has made, including rulings about warning of ICE in the area.

    And, apps are tools, like guns. If gun makers can't be held accountable for what people do with the gun, then app makers can't either. This also has precedent, up to and including the Supreme Court.

    You'd be better served if you considered that we talk to lawyers all the time about things like this.
    edited July 8
    GregWmuthuk_vanalingamronn
     3Likes 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 28 of 34
    GregWgregw Posts: 5member
    Great. Obstruction of justice is a criminal offense. Doesn't matter if it's done via an app or not. 
    Except developing or distributing this app does not meet the definition of "obstruction of justice". It explicitly *does* fall under the definition of "protected speech".
    sphericronn
     2Likes 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 29 of 34
    GregWgregw Posts: 5member

    ... whereas ICE raids are about addressing ALREADY COMMITTED crime/violations. You can't deter an already committed crime. 

    This is likely not going to go well for the maker of the app. 
    What crime? Sincere question.

    According to well-established precedent this *should* go *very* well for the maker of the app.
    sphericMplsPronn
     3Likes 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 30 of 34
    Wesley_Hilliardwesley_hilliard Posts: 620member, administrator, moderator, editor
    Great. Obstruction of justice is a criminal offense. Doesn't matter if it's done via an app or not. 
    pixeltini said:
    Hmm, who could have guessed interfering with law enforcement efforts would be illegal? It's no different than attempting to block a police vehicle doing its duty to protect Americans against those who would do us harm. You know… gang members, drug dealers, convicted felons, cartel thugs, human traffickers, and so on.

    And let's call out the specious idea that Ice Block is no different than a radar detector or warning drivers of a speed trap. A speed zone warning is an alert to POTENTIAL law breakers. Ice Block interferes with police efforts to apprehend individuals who have ALREADY BROKEN AT LEAST ONE LAW. Do you see the difference? Well do you?

    Pardon me for using logic and pointing out the obvious. Now go ahead and hurl the Leftist phrases you learned from CNN.
    It is exactly what I have bolded. Courts for decades have upheld the right of people to do exactly that. Apple Maps now will warn you of a speed trap, and the administration doesn't seem to care about that.

    Why? Because it's legal. Because ruling after ruling, it's been ruled as protected by the first amendment. 

    So has freedom of the press, which is what the administration is apparently more pissed about.
    Totally different issues. 

    The key difference between the red light / speed trap warnings is that they help limit the POTENTIAL of committing a crime/violation - it's actually a great deterrent - whereas ICE raids are about addressing ALREADY COMMITTED crime/violations. You can't deter an already committed crime. 

    Speed trap warnings in Apple Maps are helpful to avoid breaking the law and getting busted for it. ICE maps apps are simply helping criminals get away with crime. Huge difference. 

    You don't aid and abet a criminal in escaping the police during a raid or chase. In the same way, you don't aid and abet illegal aliens to escape the law.  

    This is likely not going to go well for the maker of the app. 
    Sending dozens of officers walking in a straight line through a city park armed to the teeth is the opposite of seeking out people that already committed crimes. 

    Again, 65% of people kidnapped by ICE have zero convictions. 93% have zero violent convictions. Trump has ordered an unrealistic goal of 3,000 arrests per day. Most of the people deported to foreign slave prisons were sent without due process, separated from their families, then tortured for fun by the government Trump is working with.

    Letting people know that they could potentially be in the area of a indiscriminate police force exclusively rounding up brown people to sate the president's quota is no different than telling people about a flash flood that's about to upend their lives and potentially bring death and suffering. At least in this case the ICE app works where our government does not.

    not to mention it and CNN's reporting are both completely legal. The funniest part is the app is only this popular because of Trump bringing light to it.

    stop spreading propaganda and nonsense. Unless you can name the law that is being violated, you're just spamming at this point.
    muthuk_vanalingamthtGregWspheric9secondkox2ronn
     3Likes 1Dislike 2Informatives
  • Reply 31 of 34
    GregWgregw Posts: 5member
    Wesley_Hilliard said:

    Again, 65% of people kidnapped by ICE have zero convictions. 93% have zero violent convictions. Trump has ordered an unrealistic goal of 3,000 arrests per day.
    We got the quiet part out loud last week when a member of Trump's inner circle insinuated that the real goal is to eliminate the Latino population of the USA.
    thtmattinoz9secondkox2ronn
     3Likes 1Dislike 0Informatives
  • Reply 32 of 34
    the Trump administration hates the 1A and are actual fascists. It's no longer hyperbole 
    80 years ago Italians solved their fascism infestation with this one weird trick #piazzaleloreto
     0Likes 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 33 of 34
    mikeincamikeinca Posts: 22member
    pixeltini said:
    Hmm, who could have guessed interfering with law enforcement efforts would be illegal? It's no different than attempting to block a police vehicle doing its duty to protect Americans against those who would do us harm. You know… gang members, drug dealers, convicted felons, cartel thugs, human traffickers, and so on.

    And let's call out the specious idea that Ice Block is no different than a radar detector or warning drivers of a speed trap. A speed zone warning is an alert to POTENTIAL law breakers. Ice Block interferes with police efforts to apprehend individuals who have ALREADY BROKEN AT LEAST ONE LAW. Do you see the difference? Well do you?

    Pardon me for using logic and pointing out the obvious. Now go ahead and hurl the Leftist phrases you learned from CNN.
    It’s flat-out a violation of the 1st amendment to criminalize this app.  You like the 2nd amendment?  Well, it’s second, not first, and the first is free speech.  Which means the government can’t do squat about sharing info.  That is the entire point of the first amendment.  Don’t like it?  Then it sounds like you don’t like democracy. Maybe China or Russia or Communism is more your style.   Cause there ain’t no free speech in communist countries.  

    And no, the info isn’t criminal.   You see a police car, you can tell someone you saw a police car and where it was.  That is all this is.  
    ronnmattinoztiredskills
     3Likes 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 34 of 34
    dewmedewme Posts: 6,098member
    Pure intimidation tactics that ignore the laws of the land and the US Constitution. Using ICE and DHS as kinds of politically aligned private armies is extremely troubling. This bypasses the essential independence and political neutrality that is required between the law enforcement, US military, and civilian leadership. There’s no place for politics in either law enforcement or to a much greater degree, military forces. Some of those lines are imo being crossed or at least tested to the extreme.
    edited July 21
    ronn
     1Like 0Dislikes 0Informatives
Sign In or Register to comment.