LOL , oh... and Avie, if you're listening, say "hello" to Steve from me and tell him that we're looking foreward to watching him officially trounce the P4 on stage ac the WWDC in june.
I'll second that. Haven't had a decent Photoshop bakeoff in some time. My dream lately has been that Steve will be showing a 970 absolutely destroying a top of the line P4 in every test, and then reveal at the end that it's the LOWEST END 970. Hey, a guy can dream, can't he?
i've often wondered who/what Programmer is and i always look for his insightful posts however the MacBidouille bashing i've seen on several sites was getting out of hand. ill never forget the guy who got info on a product release and was attacked relentlessly in here and turned out to be right!...
i like france, and i like MacBidouille.
please people, think before you hit that "submit reply" button...
It's been discussed a thousand times. On these boards too. All that does need reworking is the kernel and certain drivers. And it's backwards-compatible. And it runs existing PPC code natively. Not as efficiently as compiled specifically for it, but without modifications. This means that 99% of Jaguar runs on 970 off the shelf. Point.
Which was all I was saying. OS X 10.2.5 will not run on a 970. Apple could put those mods into a dot-dot release (10.2.6 or whatever) but won't. They will put 970 functionality into Panther, along with a boatload of other things.
Ergo: you will need Panther GM to run a 970-based Powermac (unless you get a beta of Panther, but you get the point).
Which was all I was saying. OS X 10.2.5 will not run on a 970. Apple could put those mods into a dot-dot release (10.2.6 or whatever) but won't. They will put 970 functionality into Panther, along with a boatload of other things.
Ergo: you will need Panther GM to run a 970-based Powermac (unless you get a beta of Panther, but you get the point).
I don't see how that's controversial.
There is a 10.2.6 release coming so they might. We simply won't know until Apple goes ahead and releases the hardware. I disagree that a 970 running Jaguar could be classified as "crippled", however. If they shipped a G4 with that level of performance nobody would even considering saying such a thing!
The 970 will run 32-bit apps and "G4 code" just fine. The small amount of supervisor code in the kernel needed to make the OS function is (probably) the only exception and as you said that could be taken care of in a small-dot release. These processors all run 32-bit PowerPC code and optimizing it for one or the other doesn't limit which processors can run the code, it just affects their performance in doing so. The one current caveat is that AltiVec code cannot run on non-AltiVec enabled processors.
On the MB benchmarking subject: after-the-fact explanations are always a little suspect, but MB seems to have believable ones to cover their discrepancies. They also seem to imply that the numbers are somehow leaking out of Apple, and Apple quite often will have access to pre-release 3rd party software for testing on upcoming hardware and software configurations. Bryce is exactly the kind of thing they would want to exercise their new monster hardware with.
i've often wondered who/what Programmer is and i always look for his insightful posts however the MacBidouille bashing i've seen on several sites was getting out of hand. ill never forget the guy who got info on a product release and was attacked relentlessly in here and turned out to be right!...
i like france, and i like MacBidouille.
I hope nobody interpreted my posts as "MacBidouille bashing" -- that was certainly not my intention. I suggest that people should hold their bashing & praise until we have some way to confirm their claims; they will become the yardstick by which MB is measured in the future. For now we just have to wait for the capsule to land, and hope that its on target.
I'm what my name suggests, nothing more and nothing less. You guys are making me blush and I'm getting misty eyes.
I'm not sure if I'm right here, but I believe this is the first instance of a rumor board coming back and justifying their rumor when it's been attacked. Normally rumors just die in this sort of situation. The following is my take on this:
1. MacBidouille are totally honest in their reporting of these figures. They have been given these figures and they are reporting them to us.
2. They also have a lot of confidence in their source, to the degree that they are prepared to come into the fray to support him/her.
Workerbee's posts were never outlandish. What made them remarable was that at the time he was spouting out the "true" specs everyone was way beyond him with rampant speculation.
If you expect for people to show respect to MacBidoille they have to come through. Right now they've deluged us with so much unsubstantiated information it will take a while to prove their "quality"
I'm not sure if I'm right here, but I believe this is the first instance of a rumor board coming back and justifying their rumor when it's been attacked. Normally rumors just die in this sort of situation. The following is my take on this:
1. MacBidouille are totally honest in their reporting of these figures. They have been given these figures and they are reporting them to us.
I totally agree but MB could have been misinformed by anybody as well....
2. They also have a lot of confidence in their source, to the degree that they are prepared to come into the fray to support him/her.
I know the man who runs MB, he would have never took some stupids risks without any knowledge... But who gave him the benchs?.... That is THE question
Maybe it's an Apple Trick to introduce the next generation PPC thru a rumor site? \
Who knows? MB because Europe??...France and so on....
Muhahahaha!!
Anyway.. Ahremm... The guy who posted the MB benches said that after the 970 rumors, he would stop posting rumors.. Why? Maybe because they're wrong, or maybe because 'you should always stop when the game is going well'..
Have everyone read MOSR today?? it really says something about that site.. 900 Mhz bus and 400 Mhz DDR ram.. Aint that a no go?
Anyway.. Ahremm... The guy who posted the MB benches said that after the 970 rumors, he would stop posting rumors.. Why? Maybe because they're wrong, or maybe because 'you should always stop when the game is going well'..
He actually said that MB would stop posting rumors if the benchmarks weren't true.
He actually said that MB would stop posting rumors if the benchmarks weren't true.
Well... Look:
Quote:
Originally from MacRumors.com
To conclude, if the rumor of the breathtaking performances of the PPC 970 reveals to be false, I will never again publish rumors. If the rumor gets confirmed and that the PPC 970 reveals to be the bomb we're all waiting for (which I am convinced), I will probably not publish rumors any more neither. Those informations will remain inside the team.
Well, macosrumors has weighed in an stated that their sources indicate the benchmarks are close to correct, but not exactly. That is the second site to indicate the same.
With those kind of performance gains, I can live with "close or approximate". I remember as much as 2 or 3 months ago, 1 or 2 technology writers who (apparently under NDA) couldn't give specifics, mentioned no processors, specific platforms, etc., but indicated in very general terms that the performance of this summers new Macs would bring them into parity and possibly a small jump ahead of current Windows offerings. I'll have to see if I can find those links again.
While I don't accept the macbidouille benchmarks as totally accurate, as I suspect the information was gathered rather hastily, and lacks the platform information necessary for a "practical" comparision, I am starting to believe that they are close to reality.
If the benches are 'ballpark' right. I'll probably buy. I can't take waiting for a 'G5' much longer. I'll limp along to August of course.
A low end 970 spanking a P4 at 3 gig? I can live with that! Even with a ten per cent margins of error...or so...these benches are stunning. Even if you look at the specs in the cold light of day...the 970 is new everything, from the ground up...if it wasn't this much faster than a dual G4 then something would be seriously wrong. The 970 looks to pull ahead of Intel's latest...and in some cases, dramatically so. In the areas that count? Photoshop and 3D (LBB is veerrrry happy about this.)
Apple haven't issued a cease and desist order. That could mean the benches are false. But it could mean they're true and Apple wouldn't want to confirm them as such.
Apple are being very quiet. As well they should be.
Comments
Originally posted by NETROMac
LOL
I'll second that. Haven't had a decent Photoshop bakeoff in some time. My dream lately has been that Steve will be showing a 970 absolutely destroying a top of the line P4 in every test, and then reveal at the end that it's the LOWEST END 970. Hey, a guy can dream, can't he?
i like france, and i like MacBidouille.
please people, think before you hit that "submit reply" button...
Originally posted by highfalutintodd
My dream lately has been that Steve will be showing a 970 absolutely destroying a top of the line P4 in every test...
Did he test P4 with a sledgehammer, shredder or his very own teeth?
Originally posted by costique
It's been discussed a thousand times. On these boards too. All that does need reworking is the kernel and certain drivers. And it's backwards-compatible. And it runs existing PPC code natively. Not as efficiently as compiled specifically for it, but without modifications. This means that 99% of Jaguar runs on 970 off the shelf. Point.
Which was all I was saying. OS X 10.2.5 will not run on a 970. Apple could put those mods into a dot-dot release (10.2.6 or whatever) but won't. They will put 970 functionality into Panther, along with a boatload of other things.
Ergo: you will need Panther GM to run a 970-based Powermac (unless you get a beta of Panther, but you get the point).
I don't see how that's controversial.
Originally posted by DCQ
Which was all I was saying. OS X 10.2.5 will not run on a 970. Apple could put those mods into a dot-dot release (10.2.6 or whatever) but won't. They will put 970 functionality into Panther, along with a boatload of other things.
Ergo: you will need Panther GM to run a 970-based Powermac (unless you get a beta of Panther, but you get the point).
I don't see how that's controversial.
There is a 10.2.6 release coming so they might. We simply won't know until Apple goes ahead and releases the hardware. I disagree that a 970 running Jaguar could be classified as "crippled", however. If they shipped a G4 with that level of performance nobody would even considering saying such a thing!
The 970 will run 32-bit apps and "G4 code" just fine. The small amount of supervisor code in the kernel needed to make the OS function is (probably) the only exception and as you said that could be taken care of in a small-dot release. These processors all run 32-bit PowerPC code and optimizing it for one or the other doesn't limit which processors can run the code, it just affects their performance in doing so. The one current caveat is that AltiVec code cannot run on non-AltiVec enabled processors.
On the MB benchmarking subject: after-the-fact explanations are always a little suspect, but MB seems to have believable ones to cover their discrepancies. They also seem to imply that the numbers are somehow leaking out of Apple, and Apple quite often will have access to pre-release 3rd party software for testing on upcoming hardware and software configurations. Bryce is exactly the kind of thing they would want to exercise their new monster hardware with.
Originally posted by futuremac
i've often wondered who/what Programmer is and i always look for his insightful posts however the MacBidouille bashing i've seen on several sites was getting out of hand. ill never forget the guy who got info on a product release and was attacked relentlessly in here and turned out to be right!...
i like france, and i like MacBidouille.
I hope nobody interpreted my posts as "MacBidouille bashing" -- that was certainly not my intention. I suggest that people should hold their bashing & praise until we have some way to confirm their claims; they will become the yardstick by which MB is measured in the future. For now we just have to wait for the capsule to land, and hope that its on target.
I'm what my name suggests, nothing more and nothing less. You guys are making me blush and I'm getting misty eyes.
1. MacBidouille are totally honest in their reporting of these figures. They have been given these figures and they are reporting them to us.
2. They also have a lot of confidence in their source, to the degree that they are prepared to come into the fray to support him/her.
On this basis I think the figures are genuine.
If you expect for people to show respect to MacBidoille they have to come through. Right now they've deluged us with so much unsubstantiated information it will take a while to prove their "quality"
Originally posted by Jingo
I'm not sure if I'm right here, but I believe this is the first instance of a rumor board coming back and justifying their rumor when it's been attacked. Normally rumors just die in this sort of situation. The following is my take on this:
1. MacBidouille are totally honest in their reporting of these figures. They have been given these figures and they are reporting them to us.
I totally agree but MB could have been misinformed by anybody as well....
2. They also have a lot of confidence in their source, to the degree that they are prepared to come into the fray to support him/her.
I know the man who runs MB, he would have never took some stupids risks without any knowledge... But who gave him the benchs?.... That is THE question
On this basis I think the figures are genuine.
Who knows? MB because Europe??...France and so on....
Originally posted by Markus
Maybe it's an Apple Trick to introduce the next generation PPC thru a rumor site?
Who knows? MB because Europe??...France and so on....
Muhahahaha!!
Anyway.. Ahremm... The guy who posted the MB benches said that after the 970 rumors, he would stop posting rumors.. Why? Maybe because they're wrong, or maybe because 'you should always stop when the game is going well'..
Have everyone read MOSR today?? it really says something about that site.. 900 Mhz bus and 400 Mhz DDR ram.. Aint that a no go?
Originally posted by T'hain Esh Kelch
Anyway.. Ahremm... The guy who posted the MB benches said that after the 970 rumors, he would stop posting rumors.. Why? Maybe because they're wrong, or maybe because 'you should always stop when the game is going well'..
He actually said that MB would stop posting rumors if the benchmarks weren't true.
Originally posted by JLL
He actually said that MB would stop posting rumors if the benchmarks weren't true.
Well... Look:
Originally from MacRumors.com
To conclude, if the rumor of the breathtaking performances of the PPC 970 reveals to be false, I will never again publish rumors. If the rumor gets confirmed and that the PPC 970 reveals to be the bomb we're all waiting for (which I am convinced), I will probably not publish rumors any more neither. Those informations will remain inside the team.
Originally posted by T'hain Esh Kelch
Well... Look:
And if he's right.... Are you saying the same thing for yourself?? I sincerely doubt...
Wait and see
Originally posted by Markus
And if he's right.... Are you saying the same thing for yourself?? I sincerely doubt...
Wait and see
You don't like my postings?
Dear T'hain Esh Kelch => Welcome to the world of French rumors!!
But if they're right by any chance?
That's it pal.....
With those kind of performance gains, I can live with "close or approximate". I remember as much as 2 or 3 months ago, 1 or 2 technology writers who (apparently under NDA) couldn't give specifics, mentioned no processors, specific platforms, etc., but indicated in very general terms that the performance of this summers new Macs would bring them into parity and possibly a small jump ahead of current Windows offerings. I'll have to see if I can find those links again.
While I don't accept the macbidouille benchmarks as totally accurate, as I suspect the information was gathered rather hastily, and lacks the platform information necessary for a "practical" comparision, I am starting to believe that they are close to reality.
The pieces are coming together.
A low end 970 spanking a P4 at 3 gig? I can live with that! Even with a ten per cent margins of error...or so...these benches are stunning. Even if you look at the specs in the cold light of day...the 970 is new everything, from the ground up...if it wasn't this much faster than a dual G4 then something would be seriously wrong. The 970 looks to pull ahead of Intel's latest...and in some cases, dramatically so. In the areas that count? Photoshop and 3D (LBB is veerrrry happy about this.)
Apple haven't issued a cease and desist order. That could mean the benches are false. But it could mean they're true and Apple wouldn't want to confirm them as such.
Apple are being very quiet. As well they should be.
Lemon Bon Bon